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General => General Trading Discussion => Topic started by: pinoytrader on August 02, 2017, 09:03:20 AM

Title: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pinoytrader on August 02, 2017, 09:03:20 AM
its a btc craze going on with brokers, from actually trading it to treating it as a currency interms of withdrawals and deposits, its gonna be messy but exciting.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: donalduck on August 03, 2017, 09:29:38 AM
Can we trade Bitcoin in this broker?

Yes you can they just have started to offer BTC pairs. For now its only BTCUSD and BTCEUR.

Bitcoin is mainstream now and we can see it everywhere but is its value keep strong like this forever? Should I sell on BTC ?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on August 05, 2017, 09:41:00 AM
Not now maybe in future when official alternative will be invented that will replace money. For now its usage will only expand so is the price.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 13, 2017, 05:04:35 PM
Not now maybe in future when official alternative will be invented that will replace money. For now its usage will only expand so is the price.

I've been in Bitcoin since $17. Here's a hint for you; it's specifically a replacement for what you're describing. It's not going away.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on August 14, 2017, 08:44:08 PM
Yeah I agree but remember to not confuse blockchain from bitcoin. Its just another cryptocurrency from dozens of others. Just it was adopted first and now grows thanks to speculations
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 14, 2017, 09:37:16 PM
Yeah I agree but remember to not confuse blockchain from bitcoin. Its just another cryptocurrency from dozens of others. Just it was adopted first and now grows thanks to speculations

Yes, I've been in this space since 2012 and have been involved with a number of blockchain projects. I've done corporate consulting and educational work on the topic as well. Any questions, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pinoytrader on August 15, 2017, 01:19:11 PM
hi there CP, honestly most of us or mostly likely I my self am in the dark with BTC in general. would you say it would still graw in price, i mean its somewhere between 2800-3500 pero coin, is it sustainable and would it still continue to grow. there are some times in the past where i would read about it hitting 1k per coin and now all of sudden its at 3500 or something.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Adrian the Sun on August 15, 2017, 01:59:08 PM
Yeah I agree but remember to not confuse blockchain from bitcoin. Its just another cryptocurrency from dozens of others. Just it was adopted first and now grows thanks to speculations

Yes, I've been in this space since 2012 and have been involved with a number of blockchain projects. I've done corporate consulting and educational work on the topic as well. Any questions, feel free to ask.

I hope you took some bitcoins on hold at that time 8)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pinoytrader on August 18, 2017, 11:14:44 AM
i was thinking the same thing, like some trends on social media comparing the bitcoin prices from a couple of years back. oh well who would have known anyway.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 21, 2017, 03:32:21 PM
hi there CP, honestly most of us or mostly likely I my self am in the dark with BTC in general. would you say it would still graw in price, i mean its somewhere between 2800-3500 pero coin, is it sustainable and would it still continue to grow. there are some times in the past where i would read about it hitting 1k per coin and now all of sudden its at 3500 or something.

Sorry, didn't notice your question.

While it may seem outlandish, it's not at all unimaginable to me to see Bitcoin hit $1,000,000 per Bitcoin. I'm relatively sure that before that happens, other crypto currencies will see high values (Ethereum is a good example of a challenger in the space) as well though. But why such a crazy million dollar valuation? Why would I say something like that?

Cryptocurrency is a new asset class. I remember reading old forum posts from even before I was involved, of forum users on BitcoinTalk dot org saying "It hit $5. Sell everything now. Don't be a fool!" What these people fundamentally fail to understand is why Bitcoin is a functional money, and also the difference between monies and currencies. Bitcoin is a functional money, and because it's a functional money that has an effective arbitraging cost of basically zero it is very attractive over the long term for wealth storage in much the same way that gold and silver are attractive for same.

I remember talking to Raul Pal about this. Take it from the legendary fund manager. If Bitcoin captures just a small portion of the gold market, it's value is massive. The estimated value of all gold mined in the world is something like 7.5 Trillion USD. If Bitcoin captures 10% of that, that's $750 Billion, right? Honestly, if it captures 10%, I think it'l go to 100% but slightly different discussion.

At $750 billion in overall value just replacing that 10% of the gold market, and at maximum supply of 21 million units (there are 16.5 million Bitcoin is circulation right now) that would be $35,000 per Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is also, in theory, a functional currency as well. Should it mature into a scalable currency that is useful in broad markets, let's say it captures 10% of the global money market. That one's harder to estimate because we don't know how much money actually exists. Estimates on the value of derivatives markets alone range between 600 and 1.3 Quadrillion trillion USD. It's insane...so let's just say that Bitcoin potentially captures 100 Trillion of the global money market.

At 21 million max circulating supply, that is roughly $4.6 million per Bitcoin.

An important thing to remember about Bitcoin is that "one Bitcoin" is a fairly arbitrary measure. Bitcoin is presently divisible to 8 decimal places, so each Bitcoin is actually a total of 100,000,000 sub units referred to as Satoshis. When we think of a Bitcoin's value in terms of "one Bitcoin" we're actually playing into a psychological stumbling block. I've long advocated that Bitcoin be referred to in terms of its sub unit, but the market has instead desired to value Bitcoin with 8 decimal places behind it. In any case, this really trips a lot of people up. I remember talking to people who told when Bitcoin was at about $100, that they hopes it would stop there and stabilize. I just laughed over that because at that time, Bitcoin would just have had a bunch of useless decimal places.

Anyhow, I'm going off on a tangent. Something else important to note is that many Bitcoin have actually be removed from circulation and so, take away from the available supply which means there is less opportunity to sell into the market to suppress prices. The creator of Bitcoin, whoever he/they are, are thought to have lost access to their Bitcoin which amounts to roughly 1 million Bitcoin or so.

So...bottom line. How much can a Bitcoin possibly be worth? Is $4,000 realistic? In my eyes, this is cheap. All cryptocurrencies in existence are worth roughly $144 Billion today in total market capitalization. While there are competitors to Bitcoin, there are also unique use cases that present new avenues of disruption of markets via cryptocurrency. I expect the entire space to someday dominate financial markets. I've been laughed at all the way from 2012 and told that all of this is nothing more than a bubble and all through it, I've only seen people fail to grasp the use cases for crypto currency.

All of this has a loooong way to go.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on August 21, 2017, 04:16:21 PM
canadian,

while i agree with you on your valuation explanation to quite some extent.

the day will come and the gov will declare war on it. in form of reporting for tax reasons. that will put a huge kink into the rise for sure.

also what i have a huge beef with its not touchable. which is good in a way, no storing required.
but its also hackable and i think always be.
so one day you have your bitcoin, next day they are gone bye bye.

that has happened many times already.

so how can you trust something like that ? i think its a bubble, period.

but i also dont trust fiat of course.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 21, 2017, 04:36:25 PM
Well, no. No one has ever hacked Bitcoin. Just as gold has been robbed from banks, Bitcoin has been stolen from Bitcoin exchanges, but it's never been hacked. This is a repetitive fallacy born of ignorance of the technology. No offence intended by the way. I know that can sound abrasive, but it's not meant to be.

Every technology is theoretically hackable but as far as encryption theory goes, Bitcoin is among the least hackable technologies that exists. Banking infrastructure is far more hackable, and presently far more valuable which is why 1) only Bitcoin exchanges have ever been hacked (they're more vulnerable than blockchains by an almost unimaginable margin) and 2) why the SWIFT system ha been hacked multiple times resulting in thefts of tens of millions of dollars from the banking system.

As for government declaring war, this has already happened here and there and it's a fruitless mission. Declaring war on peer to peer money is destined to be as effective as declaring war on peer to peer file sharing. That hasn't worked out so well. I think governments see this. For instance, I recently wrote an analysis of a Bank of canada research paper from 2016 by Warren Weber. The research paper speculated on the tenability of a Bitcoin Standard for government currency and it's very insightful. The Canadian Senate just a couple of years ago was hosting Bitcoin luminaries in committee meetings to understand more about it, and recieved Bitcoin as an idea in a very open fashion, in part because Senators openly acknowledged that trying to prevent the technology seemed like a bad idea.

As for it not being touchable...that's kind of ironic seeing as we're posting on a FX trading forum here, but I'm happy to respond to that. There's nothing wrong with wanting something touchable, but as far as digital information goes, blockchains are likely the most durable form of digital information in existence. Blockchains are simply digital ledger books that exist as distributed copies all over the world. To destroy a blockchain, you'll have to see a global crisis that destroys all computers and electronic infrastructure. Such a doomsday scenario may well come and in that case, I'll be happy I have gold and silver, but i don't think that scenario is all that likely. So, I'm not betting on it.

Is it a bubble? No. I'm sorry but this is what I've been hearing for years now and it's from people like you who say things like Bitcoin is hackable. I'm afraid you just do not understand why this is an emergent asset class, nor why it has increased in value thus far. Bitcoin was a breakthrough in the field of computer science. It was the first example of using distributed consensus to solve the byzantine generals problem which had persisted for over 30 years. If you do not understand why Blockchains are massively disruptive to how we manage databases of value, then it's no wonder that you think this is a bubble.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 21, 2017, 04:37:08 PM
Oh, and one of the primary reasons I like cryptocurrency is because i don't like fiat. Crypto currency is not fiat. If you think it is, you misunderstand what fiat is. Consult the dictionary. ;)

Decided to split this topic rather than hijack a broker's thread. Sorry for any confusion folks.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on August 24, 2017, 08:40:38 AM
Well, no. No one has ever hacked Bitcoin. Just as gold has been robbed from banks, Bitcoin has been stolen from Bitcoin exchanges, but it's never been hacked. This is a repetitive fallacy born of ignorance of the technology. No offence intended by the way. I know that can sound abrasive, but it's not meant to be.

Every technology is theoretically hackable but as far as encryption theory goes, Bitcoin is among the least hackable technologies that exists. Banking infrastructure is far more hackable, and presently far more valuable which is why 1) only Bitcoin exchanges have ever been hacked (they're more vulnerable than blockchains by an almost unimaginable margin) and 2) why the SWIFT system ha been hacked multiple times resulting in thefts of tens of millions of dollars from the banking system.

As for government declaring war, this has already happened here and there and it's a fruitless mission. Declaring war on peer to peer money is destined to be as effective as declaring war on peer to peer file sharing. That hasn't worked out so well. I think governments see this. For instance, I recently wrote an analysis of a Bank of canada research paper from 2016 by Warren Weber. The research paper speculated on the tenability of a Bitcoin Standard for government currency and it's very insightful. The Canadian Senate just a couple of years ago was hosting Bitcoin luminaries in committee meetings to understand more about it, and recieved Bitcoin as an idea in a very open fashion, in part because Senators openly acknowledged that trying to prevent the technology seemed like a bad idea.

As for it not being touchable...that's kind of ironic seeing as we're posting on a FX trading forum here, but I'm happy to respond to that. There's nothing wrong with wanting something touchable, but as far as digital information goes, blockchains are likely the most durable form of digital information in existence. Blockchains are simply digital ledger books that exist as distributed copies all over the world. To destroy a blockchain, you'll have to see a global crisis that destroys all computers and electronic infrastructure. Such a doomsday scenario may well come and in that case, I'll be happy I have gold and silver, but i don't think that scenario is all that likely. So, I'm not betting on it.

Is it a bubble? No. I'm sorry but this is what I've been hearing for years now and it's from people like you who say things like Bitcoin is hackable. I'm afraid you just do not understand why this is an emergent asset class, nor why it has increased in value thus far. Bitcoin was a breakthrough in the field of computer science. It was the first example of using distributed consensus to solve the byzantine generals problem which had persisted for over 30 years. If you do not understand why Blockchains are massively disruptive to how we manage databases of value, then it's no wonder that you think this is a bubble.

Its just the first blockchain based currency. The rule of nature: who's first gets most attention. Nothing unusual in bitcoin but blockain technology in itself is a breakthrough. Let's don't mix it up. Governments don't ban btc because they want community to work and polish the technology for free, based on open interest. Till it takes the shape of something that can be harnessed for government needs.
And there is Streisand effect in place.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pinoytrader on August 24, 2017, 10:23:41 AM
thanks cp, things are a bit clearer but i guess im one of them that would need more time to actually get a good grasp on this, though it pretty much reassuring it wont stop at 4k/btc, it will go higher not too long we will see BTC at 10,000 and maybe evne go higher than that, its just the start.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: lonewolf on August 24, 2017, 12:11:37 PM
thanks cp, things are a bit clearer but i guess im one of them that would need more time to actually get a good grasp on this, though it pretty much reassuring it wont stop at 4k/btc, it will go higher not too long we will see BTC at 10,000 and maybe evne go higher than that, its just the start.

 
I looked at BC around 1600 and thought it was way over priced. It has well surpassed that and I was wrong. But it doesn't relieve my thoughts that at any point a single major country could crack down upon it. Which would destroy it's worth. Regulations and rules are very subjective ( beyond what makes rightful sense).

So I doubt I'll ever commit to BC.

Best of luck if you do. xx
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 24, 2017, 10:19:08 PM
Well, no. No one has ever hacked Bitcoin. Just as gold has been robbed from banks, Bitcoin has been stolen from Bitcoin exchanges, but it's never been hacked. This is a repetitive fallacy born of ignorance of the technology. No offence intended by the way. I know that can sound abrasive, but it's not meant to be.

Every technology is theoretically hackable but as far as encryption theory goes, Bitcoin is among the least hackable technologies that exists. Banking infrastructure is far more hackable, and presently far more valuable which is why 1) only Bitcoin exchanges have ever been hacked (they're more vulnerable than blockchains by an almost unimaginable margin) and 2) why the SWIFT system ha been hacked multiple times resulting in thefts of tens of millions of dollars from the banking system.

As for government declaring war, this has already happened here and there and it's a fruitless mission. Declaring war on peer to peer money is destined to be as effective as declaring war on peer to peer file sharing. That hasn't worked out so well. I think governments see this. For instance, I recently wrote an analysis of a Bank of canada research paper from 2016 by Warren Weber. The research paper speculated on the tenability of a Bitcoin Standard for government currency and it's very insightful. The Canadian Senate just a couple of years ago was hosting Bitcoin luminaries in committee meetings to understand more about it, and recieved Bitcoin as an idea in a very open fashion, in part because Senators openly acknowledged that trying to prevent the technology seemed like a bad idea.

As for it not being touchable...that's kind of ironic seeing as we're posting on a FX trading forum here, but I'm happy to respond to that. There's nothing wrong with wanting something touchable, but as far as digital information goes, blockchains are likely the most durable form of digital information in existence. Blockchains are simply digital ledger books that exist as distributed copies all over the world. To destroy a blockchain, you'll have to see a global crisis that destroys all computers and electronic infrastructure. Such a doomsday scenario may well come and in that case, I'll be happy I have gold and silver, but i don't think that scenario is all that likely. So, I'm not betting on it.

Is it a bubble? No. I'm sorry but this is what I've been hearing for years now and it's from people like you who say things like Bitcoin is hackable. I'm afraid you just do not understand why this is an emergent asset class, nor why it has increased in value thus far. Bitcoin was a breakthrough in the field of computer science. It was the first example of using distributed consensus to solve the byzantine generals problem which had persisted for over 30 years. If you do not understand why Blockchains are massively disruptive to how we manage databases of value, then it's no wonder that you think this is a bubble.

Its just the first blockchain based currency. The rule of nature: who's first gets most attention. Nothing unusual in bitcoin but blockain technology in itself is a breakthrough. Let's don't mix it up. Governments don't ban btc because they want community to work and polish the technology for free, based on open interest. Till it takes the shape of something that can be harnessed for government needs.
And there is Streisand effect in place.

First mover advantage is a significant contributor to the network effect which currently preserves Bitcoin's status as top dog among cryptos, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's overtaken in terms of value by another blockchain in the coming years or even next year. However, there is certainly some immensely unusual in Bitcoin. It was the first blockchain and that makes it the first decentralized database on the planet that overcame the need for webs of trust. It is the base model for establishing nakamoto consensus on a blockchain which is what makes Blockchains work. It has had, by a wide margin, the most technical development done and has had the most financial services infrastructure built to serve those who use it. That said, as Ethereum now has a larger developer community and as smart contracts see more usage by large corporate concerns, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ethereum overtake Bitcoin once blockchain scalability issues are more fully addressed.

This speculation on how governments approach blockchain; these conspiracies I don't think are very helpful. In my own experience speaking with regulators and in the related experience of others who have spoken with same, from what we can tell, government really has no idea how to approach blockchain technology. Some legislators are hysterical and call for bans because they're worried about money laundering and the like, but these people are in a small minority within governments and typically quickly realize that you can't ban a decentralized network because there's no central point of attack to shut it down. So, while there may be some grand conspiracy in how some governments approach Bitcoin, I don't really see any evidence for that and in my own experience, regulators are desperately trying to understand more than anything else.

thanks cp, things are a bit clearer but i guess im one of them that would need more time to actually get a good grasp on this, though it pretty much reassuring it wont stop at 4k/btc, it will go higher not too long we will see BTC at 10,000 and maybe evne go higher than that, its just the start.

There's no end of speculation on what price will be at any given time. A rather consistently profitable Bitcoin trader was recently quoted as publicly predicting that Bitcoin will be $15,000 before the end of this year. It might well be. It might well not be. Bitcoin could still fail and it could still be a wild success. If it's a wild success, then $4,000 is nothing. If Bitcoin is primarily a digital portable wealth store with zero arbitraging cost, then it will inevitably drive out other wealth stores because good money drives out bad. If bitcoin can be a superior money to gold for instance, it should replace gold as a wealth storage medium which would put Bitcoin at a value far far far far higher than $4K. That's just simple economics and math no more advanced than multiplication.

Bitcoin carries with it a high degree of risk as any speculative instrument does. I mean, if any of this were provably certain beyond any shadow of a doubt, $4,000 would have been in the rear view mirror years ago. It's still uncertain though, so tread carefully. I've been telling my friends about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies since 2012 and they initially all laughed at me. Well a Bitcoin was $17 CAD back then. They aren't laughing anymore and none of what made me think of it as a compelling investment then has changed today.

thanks cp, things are a bit clearer but i guess im one of them that would need more time to actually get a good grasp on this, though it pretty much reassuring it wont stop at 4k/btc, it will go higher not too long we will see BTC at 10,000 and maybe evne go higher than that, its just the start.

 
I looked at BC around 1600 and thought it was way over priced. It has well surpassed that and I was wrong. But it doesn't relieve my thoughts that at any point a single major country could crack down upon it. Which would destroy it's worth. Regulations and rules are very subjective ( beyond what makes rightful sense).

So I doubt I'll ever commit to BC.

Best of luck if you do. xx

Trade what you know and don't go blindly into a field you don't understand. I think that's wise advice for anyone, and if you can't logically see value in this from your perspective, I can't imagine why you'd want to commit to BTC. Consider this though, 1 Bitcoin would cost you $4,000 or so today. If it does something crazy like go to $1MM per, that's an incredible upside and if it doesn't, you lost $4,000. We're forex traders here...don't tell me you haven't put $4,000 down the drain before. ;) Haha.

Government tried to crack down on peer to peer file sharing and that didn't work. What's had the greatest impact on peer to peer networks is commercial enterprise trying to figure out how to legitimately compete with those things. Governments today are less and less considering a crackdown on cryptocurrencies because they're quickly realizing that such crackdowns aren't effective. Russia just this year did a complete 180 on cryptocurrency regulation going from a ban, (which did nothing. One of the largest crypto exchanges in the world operates from Russia with impunity) to outright working directly with blockchain projects to expand the use of crypto in the country. Russia's deputy prime minister just today came out saying that he supports the development of a state backed Russian cryptocurrency.

In one year they went from announcing that they'd jail people who trade in cryptocurrencies to announcing the full on legalization of the activity and allocation of government resources to developing the sector.

Anyhow, not to be too long winded, but this stuff is here to stay. These markets are nascent markets and they haven't gotten anywhere near mainstream adoption. Not even close.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 25, 2017, 02:19:32 AM
Hello, reinerh.

You might want to read, http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bitcoin-as-an-investment-opportunities-and-risks-cm740800

Most noted item is:51 Percent Attack

"A 51 percent attack refers to one centralized Bitcoin mining operation gaining over 50 percent control of the blockchain, at which point it could reverse transactions, which would make the entire blockchain unusable as no trust would be left in the network. At this point in time, mining operations are spread out across the world and the Bitcoin network is fully decentralized. However, should one mining operation gain a significant amount of control over the blockchain close to 50 percent, the future of Bitcoin’s existence could be at stake." Nasdaq

With the advent of quantum computing, this will easily be achievable in the near future or is already in sight by the Chinese as a type of digital nuclear threat if they so choose and Bitcoin becomes a dependent currency.
 
"(May 3, 2017. BEIJING: Chinese scientists have successfully built the world's first quantum computing machine that is 24,000 times faster than its international counterparts and may dwarf the processing power of existing supercomputers. )"

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/58492628.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Other risks noted in the same article include:

Regulatory Risk: "Over 90 percent of trading occurring in the People’s Republic. Hence, any negative regulatory changes would have a direct impact on the world’s bitcoin investment." China being a very centralized Communist society, can have this done overnight, not to mention the less centralized EU, US and UK economies which would do likewise.

Besides, all this discussion is childish storytelling. Bitcoin today or any such cryptocurrency, represents a mosquito on an elephant's rear end: Global monetary institutions like the IMF, which gives the US, the greatest control over world economies, would never allow any childish "pop gun" to threaten its control.

"Better a bar of gold under my mattress scratching against my rear end, then 1 million bitcoins soaring in my dreams."

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 25, 2017, 02:39:03 AM
Technical risks such as 51% attacks are relevant technical risks that should be read up on to gain an understanding of the technology. It's prudent to consider these things.

Today, a 51% attack on the Bitcoin blockchain in particular would require multiples more computing power than exists among the top 500 known supercomputers in the world...combined.

As for Chinese dominance, it's my opinion that the large majority of on exchange Bitcoin trading is likely dominated by chinese traders, but no more than 80%. Some time ago, Chinese exchanges got into a competition amongst one another that offered zero fee trading to their customers. This has also drawn a large number of non-chinese traders to Chinese exchanges. Anyhow, Chinese exchanges make their money from withdrawal fees that decrease with one's trading volume. So what's happened is that people figured out that buying from and selling to themselves with zero fees attached to massively inflate their personal trading volume reduced their withdrawal fees. When Chinese exchanges adopted this cost structure, trading volume went up like a hockey stick graph suggesting indeed that this drove the increased volume. So not only is that volume fake, but a great deal of Bitcoin trading happens off exchanges.

This would make sense as "Local Bitcoin" trading volume from the localbitcoins trading site where people buy and sell Bitcoin in person did not see such a spike and growth in volume tracked global growth unlike the chinese exchanges.

That's not to say that the China problem isn't a problem, but this is also why diversification of exposure to crypto currencies is likely a good idea if you're planning to dabble.

I think the most notable issue from the link provided above is scalability. Blockchains face immense technical hurdles in figuring out how to scale above being able to support more than say 5 or 20 transactions per second depending on the blockchain. Bitcoin developers are attempting to deploy payment channels, the most popular solution on that blockchain presently being the Lightning Network. Ethereum is working on a concept called "sharding" which is supposed to be tentatively released along with their Casper update. These are all technically compelling and a lot of researchers are working very hard on these, but this is all new territory and the notion that attempts to implement these things could actually cause a catastrophic failure on a blockchain isn't out of this world. It's not necessarily likely, but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility either.

All of this stuff is still experimental and even though my personal preference isn't precious metals, I still have some myself because those aren't bad choices by any means.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on August 25, 2017, 06:44:17 AM
Very interesting subject! I had few friends advising me to invest in Bitcoins back in the days when 1 BTC was around 30 $, but I didn't listen. Of course I didn't make the same mistake with Etherium, bought them in March.. very happy with my decision! Back to Bitcoin, in my opinion by the end of the year they will hit 5000 $.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 29, 2017, 02:17:28 PM
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Regards,
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Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 30, 2017, 09:44:44 PM
Some very conflicting signals coming out of Russia very recently, but all the way around very exciting to folks like me.

First up, The Moscow Stock Exchange is planning to list cryptocurrency products including ETFs and derivatives. I'm really not sure what this means specifically as it was just mentioned during a news conference, but if the exchange wants to allow for the trade of actual crypto assets as well as derivatives and ETFs, it will have to build infrastructure to allow traders to directly deposit crypto to the exchange. If this is what they're working on, this could be the start of a state recognized cryptocurrency index.

https://news.bitcoin.com/moscow-stock-exchange-trade-cryptocurrency/

On the flip side, Russia's deputy finance minister seems to want to ban cryptocurrency trading for non-accredited investors, or at least he's thinking about it. Russia's deputy finance minister apparently also thinks that cryptocurrency is a pyramid scheme or at least that it's hard to argue it's not. I'm very disappointed by this view from a regulator because I don't think it's a fair statement at all and it's a very familiar misunderstanding of blockchains that I've heard repeated over and over again since 2012.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/suddenly-russia-plans-to-ban-cryptocurrency-sales-to-ordinary-people

I think this is overall positive on a global scale and even for the russian crypto market for a couple of reasons. First, Russia is decidedly determined to establish significant market infrastructure for the trade of cryptocurrencies and that's likely because they're trying to be a first mover to use blockchain tech to provide added functionality to the Ruble. Even in the case where they want to ban crypto for day to day trading citing dangers for uneducated average retail traders, they're clearly still trying to figure out how to make all of this available to the trading realm.

Even when it comes to an apparent desire to ban crypto usage among the normals, I'm very hopeful because attempts to ban cryptocurrency are largely unenforceable, especially in a country like Russia where black and grey markets are very tenable. I suspect they're trying to prevent capital flight by considering a retail level ban in addition to promoting usage of their bit-ruble, but we'll likely just have to wait and see on that front. If China's been unable to stop it though...........
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: resistance on August 31, 2017, 04:03:00 AM
I have seen if now BTC price is higher than before, bitcoin still become crypto currency that more popular, but now there are another crypto currency like s dogecoinm litecoin, dash etherium etc the latest technology development help much for bitcoin popularity
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 31, 2017, 07:03:41 AM
I have seen if now BTC price is higher than before, bitcoin still become crypto currency that more popular, but now there are another crypto currency like s dogecoinm litecoin, dash etherium etc the latest technology development help much for bitcoin popularity

Yes, there are over 800 cryptocurrencies in existence today, most of which are oddities and experiments. Dogecoin for instance is a meme culture currency that isn't supposed to be taken seriously, but it's compelling as an economic exercise in what can or can't be done with a madly inflationary money supply.

Litecoin was a clone of Bitcoin meant as an experiment in trying to offer faster transactions and it's evolved into a development pool of its own.

DASH is an interesting digital currency in that it incentivises those who preserve the network differently than those who preserve the Bitcoin network.

Ethereum is a programmable money that is meant to be thought of as a sort of "world computer" that exists on a blockchain. The idea is that you can write programs to be executed (called smart contracts) on the blockchain and you pay for computational power used to execute those contracts. It is presently the second most valuable cryptocurrency in existence. I bought those at roughly $0.34 USD. Ethereum is priced today at $380 USD or so.

The blockchain space has an immense amount of development going on which is madly compelling. SWIFT has started to work with Ripple which has over 100 partner banks that are studying varied deployments of the technology for instance.

It's a big and disruptive space. I think anyone who doesn't try to understand it is missing out.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: kennyhubbard on August 31, 2017, 07:43:06 AM
CanadianPsycho,

You seem to be in the know, and forgive the lazy question but could you offer a suggestion as to an exchange where a newbie can start dipping his toes?

Or possibly an impartial site that offers starting out tutorials..........

Thanks

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 31, 2017, 03:11:34 PM
CanadianPsycho,

You seem to be in the know, and forgive the lazy question but could you offer a suggestion as to an exchange where a newbie can start dipping his toes?

Or possibly an impartial site that offers starting out tutorials..........

Thanks

Hey Kenny.

Which exchange is best might depend on which country you're in. For USD trading, Bitfinex is the most liquid exchange, but recently stopped serving US Customers because of mounting regulatory challenges; similar to a lot of FX brokers.

Inside the US for USD trading, GDAX or Coinbase is a relatively good option. Kraken FX is also a relatively good option based in Japan and serving customers globally.

It's important to keep in mind that even these choices I've listed, despite being the largest cryptocurrency exchanges on the planet, their customer service is often horrifyingly bad. It's simmilar to opening a self service account at a discount brokerage and if you run into an issue (not uncommon to run into hiccups) then you might be waiting several days or even more than a week for someone to respond to a support request. At Kraken I once had over $100,000 tied up there and it took me posting a complaint to a popular cryptocurrency social media site to get an escalated response. Took nearly a week to get that issue resolved and the issue was relatively routine in nature. It's getting better but it's doing so slowly.

Final word on exchanges is that if you do decide to dabble, you should try to figure out how to withdraw your cryptocurrency from an exchange so you actually control it. Too many exchanges have collapsed due to mismanagement and fraud and people who have kept their crypto on exchanges have lost it because if you store crypto on an exchange, you don't really control it, the exchange does. Things are getting much better on that front as the marketplace continues to grow and mature and even very talented hackers haven't been able to cause any majors to collapse anymore, but one of the core ideas of crypto is that you can control it yourself without any need for banks and the like so if you can, you should really store it yourself.

As for self education, I'd check out places like blockgeeks.com that offer a lot of free educational info' that's very helpful in understanding how this technology works. This is a good start, but there's a lot more. Even on a non technical level, there is a fairly steep learning curve if you really want to get into this stuff.

https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-cryptocurrency/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on August 31, 2017, 03:29:21 PM
Final word on exchanges is that if you do decide to dabble, you should try to figure out how to withdraw your cryptocurrency from an exchange so you actually control it. Too many exchanges have collapsed due to mismanagement and fraud and people who have kept their crypto on exchanges have lost it because if you store crypto on an exchange, you don't really control it, the exchange does. >>>>>>>>>>>

canadian,

this is exactly whats wrong with cryptos.

one day you have your coins and the next they are puff gone...............

i am sure glad you did well with it and have a good understanding, but i still see it as a complete joke. no way in hell will i buy even a single one, not even speculative and trust me i like to take risks.

i am convinced this will go down as the bubbles of all bubbles some day.

hope you will be cashed out well before :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 31, 2017, 04:03:42 PM
That's not at all fair to the space reinerh. It's a brand new market that's only been around for all of 8 years. You don't get much more brand new than that. When I got started in crypto, there was nothing BUT scams. Pyramid schemes, ponzi schemes, phishing scams and so on. While that's absolutely a negative, it shouldn't blind you to the developmental path of this asset class. We've come a long way in a very short time where now regulators and the finance service sector alike are now looking at how better to work with this space and they're getting very much involved. It's not just playing footsie anymore. Like I mentioned above, Ripple has over 100 partner banks. Bitcoin payment services count tens of thousands of merchants on their client rolls doing millions of dollars of business per day and blockchains are even changing how SWIFT does business which by the way, did you know they STILL have telex machines for some of their business?? I'm not sure that's fair to call all that and more a joke...except the telex thing. So silly.

I'm happy to be honest about the risks that are present in a developing space with an emerging asset class because I think that's fair. Running with those risks and just calling it all a joke though is, I think massively unfair.

Look, this is a risk that exists in the finance sector period. Tell me about how MF Global made dollars, euros and yuan a joke, or how Bernie Madoff made the whole stock market a joke. Heck, did Corzine even do any time for MF Global? Of course there will be fraudsters, but if that scares you away from markets then you probably shouldn't be involved in markets period.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on August 31, 2017, 04:25:47 PM

its just my personal opinion, we all have one of those and i stick to mine.

maybe just maybe i am proven wrong some day, but any of these coins wont see a dime from me thats for sure.
and trust me by now i have established how to play in the markets, and there are risks always will be. therefor mine are spread all over.

and again i sure hope the coins treat you and everybody else well, for me i stay out period.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on August 31, 2017, 04:35:06 PM
oh, corzine got away btw.

he was in bed with the right people.

there was another large fx brokerage out of chicago doing the same as mf global, forgot their name was about the same time they went belly up.

banks can fold as well, we just have to be aware of the risks thats all.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 31, 2017, 04:49:45 PM
Agreed 100%. Knowing risks is important which is why I talk about those risks in crypto quite a lot.

I should also mention even though I think you're being short sighted, that doesn't mean I think you should pout money in this space if you don't feel like doing so. I've actually never advised anyone pointedly to buy in because I don't think anyone should play in a space financially unless they understand it, or treat it as play money that they wouldn't be concerned over losing. If you don't feel confident in a space, you shouldn't put any serious money into it. No doubt about that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: kennyhubbard on August 31, 2017, 05:10:18 PM
reinerh,

I agree with CP......I can't comment on whether bitcoin is a bubble or not but the little bit I have read and seen leads me to believe that crypto technology is here to stay.

The applications in trust-less transactions alone are enormous. I can understand the fear that crypto currency have no underlying value......but then again, so does the regular currencies we use. Do you know that 99.9% of the money in the world does not actually exists :o.......

As to bitcoin, the chart attached does scare the crap outa me but I plan to look into this. I believe that someone that is half savvy with the markets and computers will be able to identify opportunities, wherever they may lie. I think my first toe dipping exercise is going to be a bit of crypto mining :-)

CP, thanks for the info.....please keep it coming:-)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on August 31, 2017, 05:33:22 PM

kenny,

i also think it is here to stay, but it has a mighty long way to go.

the bottom line is we will be a cashless society ultimately, thats the goal = total control by the gvt.
oh and then of course no fx anymore.

debit card was the start, now the war on cash is already on getting fiercer every year. try getting 15k from your bank, they will look at you like you are a criminal.

and if they find the 15k on you at the airport while being screened its very likely you be put in hand cuffs, money confiscated since its assumed to be drug money thats reality already in usa.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on August 31, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
I've taken large amounts of cash across borders. Show up with the paperwork filled out beforehand, and you're probably golden but there's a reason to use the word probably. You're right Reinehr, there is indeed a war on cash. India just suffered through an idiotic cash ban that crippled the economic growth explosion there, and that was all under the guise of routing corruption. Of course if we think just a little bit, we know what that was really about. Use of electronic transactions has roughly doubled since the failed cash ban.

That said, this is largely what crypto fights. It is indeed not physical, but it provides a unit of account that exists outside of a state run banking system. Monero is particularly compelling for this because transactions on that blockchain are untraceable, but Ethereum is gearing up to include this feature as well. Even still, it's a fairly trivial thing to send your crypto through a tumbler and anonymize it if you want to. Something that's really fascinating to me is the technological tools made available to rout around money laundering prevention and the like. Not that I'm endorsing anything illegal, but from an economics and monetary theory point of view, this type of technological disruption is what changes marketplaces.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: bleach on September 06, 2017, 12:53:08 AM
Fascinating topic. Been trying to read and understand myself.

Could you please recommend some realiable exchanges for purchase?

I am using coin base but it limits me to 100bucks per week!

Any other Brokers offering trading via CFD or equivalent on this?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 06, 2017, 02:35:18 AM
I believe Hotforex has CFDs for a number of crypto currencies. My favourite broker Pepperstone offers CFDs for Bitcoin only.

Some of the more "reliable" bitcoin/crypto exchanges out there that include fiat money pairs are Kraken, Bitfinex and Bitstamp. I've used Kraken and their liquidity is quite good.

Something to be very aware of however when it comes to these digital currency exchanges is that their customer service is often awful. The industry isn't done maturing yet by a long shot and if you get stuck in a serious bind, sometimes it can take a letter from your lawyer to snap them into action. I for instance had over $100,000 USD tied up at Kraken due to a mistake their payment provider made when wiring it to me and it took over a week to get it sorted...AFTER I made a big post on reddit about it and hot the attention of their PR folks.

Be careful in this space. It's still growing and the growing pains are very frequent.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on September 08, 2017, 07:06:34 AM
@CanadianPsycho have you done some research on CoinBase, I am currently reviewing them, as a friend of mine is using them. In his opinion they are a good starter for beginners, as they are having a lot of confirmation protocols (SMS verification, PC verification and etc.) So they are quite secure, but it will be good to hear your opinion as well.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 09, 2017, 03:24:43 PM
@CanadianPsycho have you done some research on CoinBase, I am currently reviewing them, as a friend of mine is using them. In his opinion they are a good starter for beginners, as they are having a lot of confirmation protocols (SMS verification, PC verification and etc.) So they are quite secure, but it will be good to hear your opinion as well.

Coinbase is one of the oldest exchanges around, and really one of the few compliant options available to Americans. They are certainly the most solid broker in the cryptocurrency space that you'll find if you're looking for a broker that is safe from implosion. That said, in my opinion they are terrible because they are hyper-compliant. Because the cryptocurrency space is so often scrutinized so critically by regulators presently, CoinBase has opted to be kind of insane when it comes to regulatory compliance.

As an example, an acquaintance of mine was vacationing in Cuba and checked his Coinbase account while he was in the Havana airport. When he got home, he found out that his account had been locked and it took him multiple weeks and the involvement of his attorney to get his account restored. This was triggered by Coinbase's hyperactive approach to regulatory compliance and anti-fraud and made horrible by their AWFUL customer service.

As I've mentioned earlier, these exchanges and brokerages have simply not been able to handle the growth of the marketplace around them and they typically just don't have customer service support available to match customer demands. If you're used to your forex broker having live chat on demand for instance, you're going to hate coinbase the moment you run into a problem and it takes you a week (if the markets aren't super active) to get an email reply from someone likely giving you some basic troubleshooting recommendations.

Coinbase is also pretty limited from what I understand without going through a lot of account verification and document uploads.

Honestly, I've never used Coinbase primarily because of what I've heard from those I know who do use it. Regulatorily and financially, coinbase is solid but good gawd, it's horrible for customers.

Better alternatives are cex.io, coinmama and if you are able to access it from the USA, Kraken FX which is my current favourite. Support requests are often answered within a couple of days and they're staffing up for customer support. Still atrocious by my standards, but better than most. Kraken is based in Japan and is regulatorily compliant without being so paranoid that my account gets locked up when I show up in different international airports.

Another option to consider is Gemini. I don't really know much about them at all but they're licensed in New York and the exchange was established by the Winklevoss twins. So far as reputation goes, I've never heard anything bad about therm though i don't know what the customer service experience is like or even what it takes to open an account. Worth looking into though if you're an American based customer looking for options other than Coinbase.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on September 14, 2017, 04:35:18 PM
CanadianPsycho, thanks for sharing! Really really appreciated ! Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 16, 2017, 10:02:34 PM
Hello, reinerh.

You might want to read, http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bitcoin-as-an-investment-opportunities-and-risks-cm740800

Most noted item is:51 Percent Attack

"A 51 percent attack refers to one centralized Bitcoin mining operation gaining over 50 percent control of the blockchain, at which point it could reverse transactions, which would make the entire blockchain unusable as no trust would be left in the network. At this point in time, mining operations are spread out across the world and the Bitcoin network is fully decentralized. However, should one mining operation gain a significant amount of control over the blockchain close to 50 percent, the future of Bitcoin’s existence could be at stake." Nasdaq

With the advent of quantum computing, this will easily be achievable in the near future or is already in sight by the Chinese as a type of digital nuclear threat if they so choose and Bitcoin becomes a dependent currency.
 
"(May 3, 2017. BEIJING: Chinese scientists have successfully built the world's first quantum computing machine that is 24,000 times faster than its international counterparts and may dwarf the processing power of existing supercomputers. )"

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/58492628.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Other risks noted in the same article include:

Regulatory Risk: "Over 90 percent of trading occurring in the People’s Republic. Hence, any negative regulatory changes would have a direct impact on the world’s bitcoin investment." China being a very centralized Communist society, can have this done overnight, not to mention the less centralized EU, US and UK economies which would do likewise.

Besides, all this discussion is childish storytelling. Bitcoin today or any such cryptocurrency, represents a mosquito on an elephant's rear end: Global monetary institutions like the IMF, which gives the US, the greatest control over world economies, would never allow any childish "pop gun" to threaten its control.

"Better a bar of gold under my mattress scratching against my rear end, then 1 million bitcoins soaring in my dreams."

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Reading the latest news about the Chinese government clamping down on bitcoin, as pointed out in my earlier post, how are those diehard devotees doing; are they still holding on or have they already ditched the phantom wealth?

http://m.economictimes.com/markets/stocks/news/bitcoin-falls-as-chinese-exchange-says-it-will-halt-trading/articleshow/60524619.cms

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 17, 2017, 12:54:05 AM
Yes, China "bans" Bitcoin two or three times a year. For those of us that have been around a while, that's nothing new. It's called market manipulation.

Also... ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 17, 2017, 02:43:59 AM
To give a rather clear perspective of this sort of manipulation, some of you who are observing this space may recall that Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase recently called Bitcoin a fraud and "not a real thing" that will eventually blow up. He might be right actually, but I can't see why he would be.

Anyway, what was incredibly comical about that was JP Morgan's own involvement in the Bitcoin market. After Dimon uttered these comments and Bitcoin tumbled, what happens to appear just a couple of days later? One of the largest institutional buyers on the market on the dip?

Well...check out what came up on Nordnet's trading platform.  ::)  You really can't make this stuff up. I laughed my butt off when I saw this. No exaggeration, I actually laughed uncontrollably in my living room.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on September 17, 2017, 07:07:22 AM
To give a rather clear perspective of this sort of manipulation, some of you who are observing this space may recall that Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase recently called Bitcoin a fraud and "not a real thing" that will eventually blow up. He might be right actually, but I can't see why he would be.

Anyway, what was incredibly comical about that was JP Morgan's own involvement in the Bitcoin market. After Dimon uttered these comments and Bitcoin tumbled, what happens to appear just a couple of days later? One of the largest institutional buyers on the market on the dip?

Well...check out what came up on Nordnet's trading platform.  ::)  You really can't make this stuff up. I laughed my butt off when I saw this. No exaggeration, I actually laughed uncontrollably in my living room.

goldman dimon is the devil, thats already been clear for years to me.

the flash crash in the dow some years ago was also a total fabrication by the big boys.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on September 23, 2017, 08:49:37 AM

but we already knew the funny money we are dealing every day with is essentially worthless..........................


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-22/central-bank-%E2%80%9Ccryptocurrencies%E2%80%9D-just-different-kind-funny-money
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 23, 2017, 01:46:15 PM

but we already knew the funny money we are dealing every day with is essentially worthless..........................


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-22/central-bank-%E2%80%9Ccryptocurrencies%E2%80%9D-just-different-kind-funny-money

Money or currency is just a "promise" or understanding reached by individuals giving an "abstract" value to this understanding: Originally people would exchange a sack or potatoes for a sack of onions as long as the "understanding" held, 1 sack potatoes = 1 sack onions. Over time, the "sack" became the currency and any content would be exchanged for an equal sack of goods. If a sack proved to have rotten goods inside, people turned to a central authority who would take action upon this fraud; this was a governmental authority who later produces identifiable, "government" approved sacks. To make a long story short, and to keep things simple because we can get overwhelmed by theories, the government or legal authority ( In God we trust.) , became the guarantor of the sack/currency. Whether we like it or not, it takes a governmental authority to give legitimacy to any form of exchange vehicle (sack). A dollar, ruble or a yen is only as good as the authority behind it. Which authority backs up any of the cryptocurrencies?  ???

I find it ironic in today's world, especially from those in the fx market, who anxiously wait daily and react sometimes violently ( On the charts that is.), be it FOMC, NFP etc., and hang onto each and every hint from the "central authorities", that they try to legitimize the advent of an electronic algorithm, created by someone in their basement of dreams.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on September 23, 2017, 04:22:28 PM
I find it ironic in today's world, especially from those in the fx market, who anxiously wait daily and react sometimes violently ( On the charts that is.) to any notion of a central authority, be it FOMC, NFP etc., and hang onto each and every hint from the "central authorities", that they try to legitimize the advent of an electronic algorithm, created by someone in their basement of dreams.))))))))))))))))))

this is exactly why paper money and fx trading will go bye bye someday.

it will be one world of sorts...............

thank goodness this is still a way of in the future.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 23, 2017, 09:06:55 PM
I find it ironic in today's world, especially from those in the fx market, who anxiously wait daily and react sometimes violently ( On the charts that is.) to any notion of a central authority, be it FOMC, NFP etc., and hang onto each and every hint from the "central authorities", that they try to legitimize the advent of an electronic algorithm, created by someone in their basement of dreams.))))))))))))))))))

this is exactly why paper money and fx trading will go bye bye someday.

it will be one world of sorts...............

thank goodness this is still a way of in the future.

Hello, reinerh.

Just to clarify:, "thank goodness this is still a way of in the future." (a) Thank goodness this is still "way in the future". or (b) Thank goodness this is still  "the way" of the future?  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 28, 2017, 10:21:50 PM

but we already knew the funny money we are dealing every day with is essentially worthless..........................


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-22/central-bank-%E2%80%9Ccryptocurrencies%E2%80%9D-just-different-kind-funny-money

I do find government attempts to create their own blockchain based monies to be pretty comical. These attempts typically miss the point, that blockchain based currencies circumvent the centralized and politicized nature of government monies. Private monies have often been very successful in free markets of exchange because they are market accountable. Governments have always had to use force to shut them down, because government monies cannot compete with private monies. Case in point from recent history was Liberty Reserve, shuttered after having all of their gold, stored in Florida, confiscated by government. Liberty reserve was exceptionally successful as a medium of exchange because it utilized gold and offered a digital manner of transferring indexing units of wealth.

Liberty Reserve, like other successful private monies unfortunately was vulnerable because it was centralized. That it held all of its gold in Florida and that it had identifiable directors to prosecute were problems that caused its ultimate collapse.

Money isn't simply a government creation. Money is an indexing tool that simply achieves the task of making wealth interpretable and transferrable. I believe that only government can do this in as much as I believe that only government can run grocery stores. That is to say, it makes no sense to me that a money can not be created and supported by the free market not only because it's a simple logical exercise, but also because it's been done so many times before and it has been successful. Blockchain currencies do something that none of them have done before though; made it as hard to shut down the private currency as it is to shut down file sharing networks. No easy task.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 29, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
Sitting in Heathrow and took a quick glance at this.

https://www.coindesk.com/russia-likely-ban-bitcoin-payments-deputy-finance-minister-says/

It's been an interesting sentiment coming from this fellow as the signals he's giving are slightly mixed. It looks like he's aiming to at least limit crypto trading in Russia to accredited investors, but that's unrealistic. Russians will not only be able to see active marketplaces outside of their borders, they'll also still be able to use them and trade crypto currencies locally. Unless Russia has an international agreement up its sleeve, I can't imagine how plans like this are at all tenable.

Makers for some great volatility though!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on October 05, 2017, 03:27:46 PM
This made me chuckle today. GS has been a part of varied research projects on blockchain tech for a few years now.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 18, 2017, 01:07:35 PM
It‘s not just Russia that‘s trying to put cryptocurrencies trading under control. Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general are getting ever more popular and different regulators are trying to bring some order to the situation.

 CySEC just set new rules on cryptocurrency trading  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/CySEC-sets-leverage-volume-limits-on-cryptocurrencies-CFDs-cancels-EU-passporting-rules-on-those-instruments) -  they‘ve banned the exercising of EU passporting rules when offering CFDs on cryptocurrencies, meaning that if trading in cryptocurrencies or products with them is forbidden in a given EU or third country, the broker should not offer those products in it. Also, under the new rules, the brokers must not offer to retail clients a leverage of more than 1:5 on those instruments and the volume of crypto CFDs should not exceed 15% of the total turnover of the broker per quarter.

I think we‘ll be seeing a lot more of such measures all over the world in the next few months to a few years.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on October 18, 2017, 02:41:45 PM
I agree Eliza. More regulations are coming and coming fast because the popularity of the products are increasing rapidly, and regulators are being faced with the fact that they don't have any regulations to manage those products in the marketplace. In most situations, cryptocurrencies are still entirely unregulated because it's a new asset class.

While I think the CYSEC regs are uncompetitive, it'll likely helpt to set a broadly uncompetitive tone among FX retailers who do offer these products. To me, that's unfortunate because it means the development of CFD products and futures will be severely retarded in the short term. Unregulated markets however will likely start to offer these things more and more and force innovation and competition among the regulated markets. Decentralized exchanges for instance will be completely unregulatable, and impossible to trace for enforcement purposes. In the coming years, decentralized exchanges will see new crypto currency derivatives I think that will challenge centralized exchanges regarding what they can offer to the public.

I love market disruption!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on October 26, 2017, 09:52:02 AM
Okay so Bitcoin, is now split to two. I know CanadianPshycho already have a theory and even a prediction for the upcoming movements from this event. Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on October 26, 2017, 10:26:51 AM
Bitcoin has actually "split" (the term is "forked") a few times now. Open source blockchains offer users the ability to "fork" the blockchain. This happens when users disagree on how the technology should work and split into groups that then use the same fundamental technology but with different variations in the rules.

So for instance, Bitcoin recently split into what are colloquially referred to as Bitcoin (SegWit) and Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin (SegWit) retained a rule set that restricted the number of transactions in each new block on the blockchain while Bitcoin Cash has allowed for limitless transactions in each new block. Because users disagreed on this and other rules, the two groups are using variations of the technology that existed before the split.

Bitcoin Segwit2X is an upcoming fork that embraces the rule set that Bitcoin Cash users rejected, and also allows for more transactions in each new block.

We've also seen Bitcoin Gold and we have yet to see Bitcoin Silver proposed forks. Bitcoin has also produced failed forks Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin XT. These fork proposals quickly fizzled out.

Completely separate forks of the Bitcoin technology that created entirely new blockchains include Litecoin and DASH among others. These are cases where someone cloned the Bitcoin code and then altered it to create an entirely new token with its own genesis block and thusly a new blockchain.

This all looks messy, but to me it's one of the most compelling things about blockchain tech'. It's a completely free market of competition among anyone who thinks they have a better idea than any established market players. Anyone is free to compete with anyone else. I myself am quite intrigued by Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Segwit2X.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: resistance on October 26, 2017, 01:47:25 PM
I have seen now so many kinds crypto currency that become instrumen trading, bitcoin is most popular coin, and already many people use bitcoin as payment tool, but still limited because not all company already accept bitcoin
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on October 26, 2017, 02:19:20 PM
I have seen now so many kinds crypto currency that become instrumen trading, bitcoin is most popular coin, and already many people use bitcoin as payment tool, but still limited because not all company already accept bitcoin

Bitcoin is still very niche in respect to common usage. Most people still have very very little understanding of it if any at all.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Josesv on October 31, 2017, 01:21:07 AM
Buyers had been preparing an attack for the past two days, during which the price consolidated around 5,650 USD. After consolidating within a range of 238 USD, the price broke through the trend line at 5,935 USD, and then through the resistance zone from 6,020 to 6,055. By the end of the day, the price had reached the upper boundary of the U3 MA channel (average line with a period of 55 and a 9% upwards deviation). After reaching this level, the price started to undergo a correction.

There are rumours that bitcoin reaching a new all-time high could be related to the appearance of a new cryptocurrency exchange in China; ZB.com. It’s as of yet unavailable, with trading set to start on the 1st of November. The twittershpere suggests that the Chinese government may be behind this new exchange, allowing its people to trade legally on the new platform once other exchanges close on the 31st of October. Heretofore operational exchanges OKCoin, Huobi, and BTCC, have yet to publish anything on their sites with regards to closing their exchanges.
(https://alpari.com/data/media/trunk/images/Analytics/2017/10/btc_301017.png)
Source: https://alpari.com/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Fairytail on November 01, 2017, 01:33:33 PM
Do you think bitcoin price is going to grow or go down in the nearest future (2-3 months)?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 01, 2017, 02:04:44 PM
Regarding regulation, the New Zealand regulator FMA recently came out with a statement too -  noting that they are risky and must be regulated.  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/New-Zealands-FMA-ICOs-cryptocurrency-exchanges-must-be-regulated)
In its document FMA outlines the apparent risks of investing in ICOs and/or cryptocurrencies like them being a scam, or dealing with unregulated overseas entities, which are hard to track, in case something goes wrong.

So far that's just talk, they haven't actually done anything in practice, but usually such talk is a prelude to actual measures.
What I am curious about is when the British FCA will say or do something. And the US CTFC, for that matter.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on November 08, 2017, 08:33:34 AM
Do you think bitcoin price is going to grow or go down in the nearest future (2-3 months)?

Bitcoin price will grow for sure, maybe not in the nearest future, but for sure in 2018 it is going to break trough 10 000 $. So investing for the long term ( 1 year ) is an option here.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: resistance on November 09, 2017, 01:38:02 PM
Do you think bitcoin price is going to grow or go down in the nearest future (2-3 months)?
I think for few month ahead bitcoin will grow and will high value, but sometime bitcoin price can move down rapidly, so beware and need patience also if trading bitcoin
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 09, 2017, 02:22:54 PM
 India is also planning on banning the local cryptocurrency exchanges  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/India-to-crack-down-on-local-bitcoin-exchanges) in an attempt to curb money laundering. The authorities in China – the largest cryptocurrency market in the world – have taken similar measures and have ordered the local exchanges to cease their activities and banned trading between altcoins and the CNY in an attempt to impose tighter control on the national currency movements and price.
The South Korean authorities are mulling similar measures and have already issued a ban on initial coin offerings (ICOs).

Do you think all this will have an effect on the price of the Bitcoin?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on November 21, 2017, 11:57:41 AM
India is also planning on banning the local cryptocurrency exchanges  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/India-to-crack-down-on-local-bitcoin-exchanges) in an attempt to curb money laundering. The authorities in China – the largest cryptocurrency market in the world – have taken similar measures and have ordered the local exchanges to cease their activities and banned trading between altcoins and the CNY in an attempt to impose tighter control on the national currency movements and price.
The South Korean authorities are mulling similar measures and have already issued a ban on initial coin offerings (ICOs).

Do you think all this will have an effect on the price of the Bitcoin?

From one point, the governments are trying to limit this "evolution" if I may call it like this. But on the other hand, there is so much potential in cryptocurrencies, that business owners can benefit from, that it will truly be a huge shame if crypto currencies are banned all over the world. I strongly believe that crypto currencies will change the world and that they will replace at some point conventional currencies. Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 23, 2017, 02:53:00 PM
This week there was yet another big cryptocurrency heist -  $31 million worth of Tether coins got stolen following a “malicious attack”, the fintech behind the alt-coins said.  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/31mln-worth-of-Tether-coins-get-stolen-developers-freeze-assets)
The Tether developers managed to freeze the asset so the stolen coins couldn't be cashed in or liquidated, but the news of the heist itself caused Bitcoin to drop sharply below $8000.
This is why more regulation is necessary - this is hardly the first such heist and unfortunately I doubt it will be the last.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 23, 2017, 03:29:33 PM
Oh god no, not more regulation. There's plenty of legal regulation that prohibits theft already. Rather than more laws, there needs to be more development in the space that makes smart contracts secure. That's what Cardano is all about in fact, and it's very interesting to watch projects like that develop.

Please, don't demand regulation. Regulators just slow down innovation. There's a market demand for security of funds, so let the market provide it.

The last time the crypto currency courted regulation, they got taken in by Ben Lawsky and the New York State's Bitlicense nonsense that's driven most all crypto business out of that jurisdiction entirely.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2017, 06:51:19 PM
This week there was yet another big cryptocurrency heist -  $31 million worth of Tether coins got stolen following a “malicious attack”, the fintech behind the alt-coins said.  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/31mln-worth-of-Tether-coins-get-stolen-developers-freeze-assets)
The Tether developers managed to freeze the asset so the stolen coins couldn't be cashed in or liquidated, but the news of the heist itself caused Bitcoin to drop sharply below $8000.
This is why more regulation is necessary - this is hardly the first such heist and unfortunately I doubt it will be the last.


I shed no tears for those who claim this loss, in fact, I am happy for this. These cryptocurrency owners are not the average citizenry who are responsible participants, working for the common good and the benefit of all. Most are wealthy,  "crypto " persons trying to avoid paying taxes or launder money, a small fraction are just naive adventures playing with fire.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 23, 2017, 07:35:15 PM
I regard tax evaders as heroic personally. I abhor theft. That aside, crypto owners are a very diverse lot and build a lot of neat things. I don't agree with your characterization at all. I've met a lot of these people and while I can't say I like all of them universally, crypto personas are also some of the most fascinating and well read people I've ever met.

I don't know why you're bitter over a group of people who were educated on economics enough to see something unique and disruptive.

As well, most people who lost money in the USD Tether hack are not at all wealthy. These are typically small time retail traders who are trying to navigate the markets, no different than you. That you'd applaud losses is awful towards those people. Very spiteful.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2017, 08:57:53 PM
I regard tax evaders as heroic personally. I abhor theft. That aside, crypto owners are a very diverse lot and build a lot of neat things. I don't agree with your characterization at all. I've met a lot of these people and while I can't say I like all of them universally, crypto personas are also some of the most fascinating and well read people I've ever met.

I don't know why you're bitter over a group of people who were educated on economics enough to see something unique and disruptive.

As well, most people who lost money in the USD Tether hack are not at all wealthy. These are typically small time retail traders who are trying to navigate the markets, no different than you. That you'd applaud losses is awful towards those people. Very spiteful.

This has nothing to do with education or characterization. Anyone lurching in the shadows of society,  avoiding "legitimacy", is suspect.
If cryptocurrency,  "ever" becomes a "ligitinate " form of exchange, I would have no issue with this but for now, it equates to dealing in any "crypto" exchange, like heroine, ivory or any other illigal item.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 23, 2017, 09:01:45 PM
....except crypto currency isn't illegal.

What makes you think that cryptocurrency is illegitimate? It's traded globally by all kinds of people.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2017, 10:50:01 PM
....except crypto currency isn't illegal.

What makes you think that cryptocurrency is illegitimate? It's traded globally by all kinds of people.

"I regard tax evaders as heroic personally." I think we should end this discussion because you and I have different set of value systems.  Let me end this and you are free to respond, by giving you an experience I had the other day:

Young six-year-old "G", did not attend school the day earlier ( I am a retired teacher.). When I asked the child why she was absent, she remarked that her mother did not have bread to make sandwiches for lunch; she kept both girls from school. The mother of three depends on social assistance to feed her family. The reason the mother does not have enough to survive is that "smart, educated and intelligent" people who live in the "crypto" world, evade contributing their fair share to the collective society (taxes), stealing in other words, while they use and exploit all public services without having to pay for such. That is not to say that the "legitimate" banking system, does not contribute to this misery but at least in some way they are restrained to a degree. That is why today, "as is claimed" 99% of the wealth is in the hands of a few who hoard wealth because in most part, they have acquired it illegitimately (Check out the paradise papers). This is "not" to bunch all wealthy people into one group, take as an exception those belonging to the "The Giving Pledge" group, https://givingpledge.org/ .

I personally, feel comfortable in my skin, having contributed to society my fair share and continue to do so, you might claim the same comfort as well (I regard tax evaders as heroic personally.), like I said, it's a matter of the value system under which you live.  :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 23, 2017, 11:27:21 PM
I'm a philosophical anarchist so if you're at odds with that, I'm certainly not surprised. it's quite normal. If you can't handle discussion on that front, then I'm sorry for that.

I'm very much against the kind of corporatism that I believe government enables and which concentrates the wealth of the world in the hands of the very few. I don't actually have anything against wealth inequality because I think the world in general is still getting wealthier and wealthier with fewer people living in poverty than ever before, but even though I don't oppose wealth inequality I do oppose forced concentration of wealth which is done via the mechanistics of government.

I mean, even I don't have enough money to buy political influence in the case that I want to operate a business. Those who do love tax driven regulatory structures because it allows that concentration of wealth. Bottom line, when I think of impoverished people like what you describe, I think of economic growth that's been stolen through cronyism and corruption and I think of the taxation that has empowered those structures to do that. I don't admire those structures and I make note that they often treat the people that you've described with terrible disdain.

Anyhoo, I've likely paid more tax to Canada in the past few years than you have paid in your entire life and I believe that I'm roughly half your age. This is likely true of a lot of crypto people in Canada as well. They've likely had more stolen from them than you'll ever pay and to me, that's disgusting. While I would love to have helped people as you describe in Canada by creating economic growth and opportunity, I opted to move my wealth elsewhere because I didn't much appreciate having half of it stolen from me. The Bahamas treats my money better, so that's where it goes.

As i said, I'm a philosophical anarchist and while I sympathise with people who are hard done by, i've never thought it right to steal from others to help them. When I was a homeless street kid in Winnipeg, I never asked for welfare or even begged for money. I relied on a privately funded youth shelter to help me back on my feet and got a job to rent out a small room in a hotel where prostitutes rented by the hour. Today, I'm relaxing on the beach or on my balcony overlooking the atlantic most days, and I'm just in my 30s. I'd like that kind of opportunity for everyone, and that doesn't come from inefficient and theft based systems of administration in my view.

Not that I'm all about burning it all down to the ground or whatnot. I think a market based, demand based evolution has to take place for my ideal vision to come true and I don't know if that's very realistic. Government exists because there's a market demand for it; cryptocurrency is a possible example of that market demand shifting away from centralized and controlled systems, but I'm not really sure. For now it's just a functional non-government money and a new asset class that's emerged.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2017, 11:40:08 PM
I'm a philosophical anarchist so if you're at odds with that, I'm certainly not surprised. it's quite normal. If you can't handle discussion on that front, then I'm sorry for that.

I'm very much against the kind of corporatism that I believe government enables and which concentrates the wealth of the world in the hands of the very few. I don't actually have anything against wealth inequality because I think the world in general is still getting wealthier and wealthier with fewer people living in poverty than ever before, but even though I don't oppose wealth inequality I do oppose forced concentration of wealth which is done via the mechanistics of government.

I mean, even I don't have enough money to buy political influence in the case that I want to operate a business. Those who do love tax driven regulatory structures because it allows that concentration of wealth. Bottom line, when I think of impoverished people like what you describe, I think of economic growth that's been stolen through cronyism and corruption and I think of the taxation that has empowered those structures to do that. I don't admire those structures and I make note that they often treat the people that you've described with terrible disdain.

Anyhoo, I've likely paid more tax to Canada in the past few years than you have paid in your entire life and I believe that I'm roughly half your age. This is likely true of a lot of crypto people in Canada as well. They've likely had more stolen from them than you'll ever pay and to me, that's disgusting. While I would love to have helped people as you describe in Canada by creating economic growth and opportunity, I opted to move my wealth elsewhere because I didn't much appreciate having half of it stolen from me. The Bahamas treats my money better, so that's where it goes.

As i said, I'm a philosophical anarchist and while I sympathise with people who are hard done by, i've never thought it right to steal from others to help them. When I was a homeless street kid in Winnipeg, I never asked for welfare or even begged for money. I relied on a privately funded youth shelter to help me back on my feet and got a job to rent out a small room in a hotel where prostitutes rented by the hour. Today, I'm relaxing on the beach or on my balcony overlooking the atlantic most days, and I'm just in my 30s. I'd like that kind of opportunity for everyone, and that doesn't come from inefficient and theft based systems of administration in my view.

Not that I'm all about burning it all down to the ground or whatnot. I think a market based, demand based evolution has to take place for my ideal vision to come true and I don't know if that's very realistic. Government exists because there's a market demand for it; cryptocurrency is a possible example of that market demand shifting away from centralized and controlled systems, but I'm not really sure. For now it's just a functional non-government money and a new asset class that's emerged.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yup, different value systems: I am still here asking and worrying about the little "G"'s and the others like her which I have almost every day and feel good about it, you, on the other hand, are basking in the sun. Enjoy being a Philosophical anarchist...   :(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 24, 2017, 01:39:01 AM
You say that as if I don't help people. My greatest wish when I was a child was to be wealthy so that I could help people in need. Funny by the way, you condemn some of the people who are actively helping to rebuild Barbuda that was wiped out by Hurricane Irma. If only you knew how much crypto wealth has been poured into that situation.

Heck, I also just helped a veteran in the USA on permanent disability and his family escape crippling debt that came about after his terrible struggles with the VA. I don't like to toot my own horn when it comes to this, and usually do so very quietly, but your attempted subtle implication that somehow people like me do nothing for others is too much. The worst part of poverty in my own experience is that you're able to do so little to lift others up because you are trapped by being unable to do so for yourself.

I think your view is far too cynical and unforgiving; perhaps born of jealousy. Different value systems indeed, but I'm glad you feel good about yourself. Life isn't worth living otherwise.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 24, 2017, 07:19:42 AM
You say that as if I don't help people. My greatest wish when I was a child was to be wealthy so that I could help people in need. Funny by the way, you condemn some of the people who are actively helping to rebuild Barbuda that was wiped out by Hurricane Irma. If only you knew how much crypto wealth has been poured into that situation.

Heck, I also just helped a veteran in the USA on permanent disability and his family escape crippling debt that came about after his terrible struggles with the VA. I don't like to toot my own horn when it comes to this, and usually do so very quietly, but your attempted subtle implication that somehow people like me do nothing for others is too much. The worst part of poverty in my own experience is that you're able to do so little to lift others up because you are trapped by being unable to do so for yourself.

I think your view is far too cynical and unforgiving; perhaps born of jealousy. Different value systems indeed, but I'm glad you feel good about yourself. Life isn't worth living otherwise.

You defenitly have a psychological need to have the last word and to justify your existence and actions; like I said 3 posts earlier,  different value systems, let's leave it at that.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 24, 2017, 02:29:36 PM
*chuckle*

You tell me to respond and to leave it at that...and then you respond to my response and then say I gotta have the last word. You're a laugh riot man.

Indeed, let's return this topic to the discussion of Bitcoin and related issues.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on November 27, 2017, 06:23:18 PM
When are you going to short BTC guys? Why I see replies here and there that breaking 10000 mark it will attract more institutional investors?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 27, 2017, 11:37:42 PM
Institutional investors have been into Bitcoin and other cryptos for some time now. Breaking 10K will simply be a reflection of the demand because the market is purely supply and demand driven, and highly speculative in nature. This market will remain this way until it grows much much larger and can support much more efficient CFDs and other derivatives.

I personally don't ever short any cryptos. I just buy and hold them if I see long term value in them. These markets are very volatile though so naturally there are opportunities to short and the $10K neighbourhood might see a huge dip considering it's a big psychological level. That said, it could just go on without blinking for a while too. I think there'll be a pretty big dip, but it's hard to say and I won't be betting money on that hunch myself.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 27, 2017, 11:43:04 PM
I'll take some profits out before holidays. Usually investors cash out close to year end and than it dips. This will be a good buying opportunity if it happens. I also don't short crypto, it's waste of time because one day it goes 20% down and next day it's 50% up so better to be a hodler :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: FxMaster on November 28, 2017, 11:01:53 AM
No man it is not that volatile to be 50% up in a day. With current rate it is dropping like 3 to 5% maximum and regaining it 1 or 2 days. Yes bitcoin has increased 50% from last month almost but 10000 is a selling area.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 28, 2017, 11:09:12 AM
I was thinking on altcoins, they can move even 100% up. BTC is more stable now, true, but in early days it was more volatile.

10k could be resistance if people take profit, but now most people are just holding as they think it can go to 100k :) So the correction shouldn't be that big. Maybe to 8k and than back up.

To me it is safer to buy on dips than to go short. I also don't use leverage, so I can hold for long... 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 28, 2017, 04:40:52 PM
No man it is not that volatile to be 50% up in a day. With current rate it is dropping like 3 to 5% maximum and regaining it 1 or 2 days. Yes bitcoin has increased 50% from last month almost but 10000 is a selling area.

It does seem like the 50% days are behind us, but Bitcoin even as top dog still has experienced some 30%-ish swings in a single day. It's still a very volatile market and will be for some time to come.

Current cryptocurrency total market capitalization, $300 Billion plus. Next stop, half a trillion. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 30, 2017, 03:26:05 PM
I regret not buying Bitcoin years ago. Even now people keep telling me it's a balloon that will burst sooner or later and I don't know who to believe, it's very frustrating. :(
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 30, 2017, 03:38:55 PM
Far from balloon being burst. Just barely made it on big players radar. Check the article here: https://cointelegraph.com/news/300-bln-is-a-drop-in-the-ocean-bitcoin-is-still-a-baby-and-cant-be-a-bubble
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 30, 2017, 06:06:15 PM
Just loving the volatility in crypto markets the past couple of days. Crazy shocks up and down.

Aside from futures trading coming next year from big exchanges, I also spotted a neat top 20 crypto index fund that's been established in Grand Cayman. They're just wrapping up their public investment round right now, and they'll have a tradable token on crypto markets sometime in Jan' 2018. Just absolutely fascinating to watch this market mature.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 30, 2017, 07:43:01 PM
Just loving the volatility in crypto markets the past couple of days. Crazy shocks up and down.

Aside from futures trading coming next year from big exchanges, I also spotted a neat top 20 crypto index fund that's been established in Grand Cayman. They're just wrapping up their public investment round right now, and they'll have a tradable token on crypto markets sometime in Jan' 2018. Just absolutely fascinating to watch this market mature.

I agree, it's a dual between the smart ones and the followers; "someone", is going to make a lot of "real" money.

A real story unfolding for the history books and one to tell our grandchildren.  Lol 😊

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 30, 2017, 07:45:40 PM
I saw this on facebook today. Though it was pretty funny. Just look at the dates lol.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 02, 2017, 02:25:25 PM
I saw this on facebook today. Though it was pretty funny. Just look at the dates lol.  ;D ;D

Hahahaha, that is totally unsurprising but still hilarious!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 07, 2017, 03:22:58 PM
 There has been another big cryptocurrency hack and heist  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Hackers-steal-Bitcoins-worth-over-73-mln-from-NiceHash-pool) – hackers breached the security of the NiceHash exchange and made off with, according to users, 4,736.42 BTC – an amount worth more than $73 million at current prices.
The company announced they’d stop all operation for 24 hours and are currently investigating the hack.

Even if cryptocurrencies aren't a baloon - and I am not claiming they are, I was simply quoting what others have said to me - this lack of security is very troubling, despite the incredible potential they have.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 07, 2017, 04:06:49 PM
In crypto you are your own bank, so everybody needs to protect their funds. The hack didn't do much damage on personal basis. People lost like 10-50$ worth, but adding up and few thousannd users it accumulates to big amount. NiceHash had a hot wallet and they should have kept it in cold storage.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on December 07, 2017, 05:57:53 PM
Yeah, these hacks are pretty much always in cases where someone has entrusted their crypto to a third party; in this case a mining software outfit which honestly doesn't really have much of an alternative. If miners want to participate in this kind of mining that nicehash offers, they have to be members of pools which are reliant on third parties.

This particular problem is arguably being unintentionally addressed by people working on different "mining" protocols described as proof of stake protocols and even payment channels like the Lightning Network which may result in Proof of Work mining systems becoming more centralized blockchain to blockchain.

In any event, it's a space less than 9 years old and users still have to be very careful in how they use these systems.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on December 08, 2017, 03:12:09 PM
I saw this on facebook today. Though it was pretty funny. Just look at the dates lol.  ;D ;D

Looking at your post, I try convince some of my friend to invest in Bitcoin back to 2012 but many people says I am crazy. I did invest myself but sold everything when the first time it rally till USD 1.2k. If I keep it till today, I am already a millionaire.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 08, 2017, 04:09:54 PM
It didn't even remotely occur to me to invest in Bitcoin back then. It wasn't even something I considered as a possibility. Now I regret it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 08, 2017, 06:11:57 PM
It didn't even remotely occur to me to invest in Bitcoin back then. It wasn't even something I considered as a possibility. Now I regret it.

Not much different than currency trading; when there is a spike on a pair,  everyone wishes they had gotten in at the low. The only difference with this cryptocurrency craze that is worrying, those that gambled on a song is when will the music comes to an end and all the musical chairs are gone.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 09, 2017, 03:08:40 PM
It didn't even remotely occur to me to invest in Bitcoin back then. It wasn't even something I considered as a possibility. Now I regret it.

Not much different than currency trading; when there is a spike on a pair,  everyone wishes they had gotten in at the low. The only difference with this cryptocurrency craze that is worrying, those that gambled on a song is when will the music comes to an end and all the musical chairs are gone.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

True. I am irked at myself more about not taking it seriously as an instrument, rather than missing the rally. I am not sure whether I am expressing the difference well enough.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 09, 2017, 03:33:38 PM
It didn't even remotely occur to me to invest in Bitcoin back then. It wasn't even something I considered as a possibility. Now I regret it.

Not much different than currency trading; when there is a spike on a pair,  everyone wishes they had gotten in at the low. The only difference with this cryptocurrency craze that is worrying, those that gambled on a song is when will the music comes to an end and all the musical chairs are gone.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

True. I am irked at myself more about not taking it seriously as an instrument, rather than missing the rally. I am not sure whether I am expressing the difference well enough.

The music is still playing and the end is not too far away; perhaps you will look back at this "rally", and pat yourself on the back for not having jumped in on a fad. ;)

Cryptos are currently owned by people who have plenty of money to gamble but most is owned by members of the underworld, who want to move and launder wealth which is had by narcotics and the rest. Currently, such cryptos are beginning to enter the retail market and as such will have to be regulated by governments. When this takes place, the 1000 or so, bulk owners would fear exposure and will begin to dump the cryptoloot; that is when the dance will end and a lot of naive retail investors would have paid the price.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on December 10, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
It didn't even remotely occur to me to invest in Bitcoin back then. It wasn't even something I considered as a possibility. Now I regret it.

I know bitcoin when it was just USD 80++ and I bought even mine myself with Asic USB Miner. During that time still drop 50 coins per block. After 2-3 months, it became 25 if I am not wrong.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Lastonny on December 11, 2017, 04:32:43 PM
I did invest myself but sold everything when the first time it rally till USD 1.2k. If I keep it till today, I am already a millionaire.

This sucks   :-[
By me it was different, I paid attention to BTC when it was about 1k worth and thought to myself "How that crap can cost so much?? It's totally balloon of air and will drop down like a stone soon".
How wrong I was  ;D I had 9k $ on my IB stocks account and could get a nice swing deal.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 11, 2017, 04:40:50 PM
I did invest myself but sold everything when the first time it rally till USD 1.2k. If I keep it till today, I am already a millionaire.

This sucks   :-[
By me it was different, I paid attention to BTC when it was about 1k worth and thought to myself "How that crap can cost so much?? It's totally balloon of air and will drop down like a stone soon".
How wrong I was  ;D I had 9k $ on my IB stocks account and could get a nice swing deal.

That was pretty much my sentiment as well. And to be honest, although I wouldn't refer to Bitcoin as crap now, I still don't get why it is rallying so much.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on December 13, 2017, 12:25:09 PM
I did invest myself but sold everything when the first time it rally till USD 1.2k. If I keep it till today, I am already a millionaire.

This sucks   :-[
By me it was different, I paid attention to BTC when it was about 1k worth and thought to myself "How that crap can cost so much?? It's totally balloon of air and will drop down like a stone soon".
How wrong I was  ;D I had 9k $ on my IB stocks account and could get a nice swing deal.

That was pretty much my sentiment as well. And to be honest, although I wouldn't refer to Bitcoin as crap now, I still don't get why it is rallying so much.

It changes game for JP Morgan business of saving and protecting value of funds of their clients. At least price rigging guys try to promote that idea. But trusting something that you think other trust (but they in turn trust because they think you trust in it) is recursion and stays not on a bedrock but weak sand which will crash with snowball speed even with small imbalance.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on December 13, 2017, 03:41:40 PM
Bitcoin reached 17k.$ and the small "players" are making huge movements up. Litecoin reached 300$. Iota reached 4.9$ from struggling around 0.50$. Ripple reached 0.50$ (roughly), after being 0.25$ (roughly) for a long time. The interesting thing is what will happen, when Bitcoin makes a huge movement down, will the others follow as well, or will this be good for them ?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 13, 2017, 04:44:49 PM
I wonder whether Bitcoin will reach $20,000 before the end of the year. There's two more weeks, the way it's going it seems possible.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 13, 2017, 06:25:24 PM
Bitcoin reached 17k.$ and the small "players" are making huge movements up. Litecoin reached 300$. Iota reached 4.9$ from struggling around 0.50$. Ripple reached 0.50$ (roughly), after being 0.25$ (roughly) for a long time. The interesting thing is what will happen, when Bitcoin makes a huge movement down, will the others follow as well, or will this be good for them ?

At least with fx and other investment vihicles, you could use technicals, bank announcements etc. to make a "reasonable" evaluation of the market:I guess with cryptocurrencies we have to go back to tea leaves and consult the spirits of "hot air". ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 14, 2017, 03:11:07 PM
Doesn't technical analysis work at all on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 14, 2017, 03:16:24 PM
Doesn't technical analysis work at all on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

Perhaps some are daring enough to try, can you find some myfxbook or other "predictable" analysis about Bitcoin for next week?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on December 16, 2017, 05:28:42 PM
Humble, do you have any proof that Bitcoin is owned in majority by people dealing drugs and the like? This is a common slander against an innovative new asset class that doesn't often come with much of any proof. Just sour grapes.

I think Bitcoin is short term overvalued right now, (could easily be wrong watching it jump again) and frankly I believe Bitcoin specifically is going the wrong direction in respect to technical development, (which is why I am interested in Bitcoin Cash looking years ahead) but I think what a lot of people might miss is why this stuff is different. You have to understand that blockchains were the first technical real world implementation of trustless networks which solve the problems that were solved by human based webs of trust previousely.

What really irks me in discussions like this is to see anyone just dismiss one of the most important technical innovations of the century so far just because some people might use it to buy heroin. Well news flash, PayPal was first used to buy pornography and drugs before any of you might have known how well it would have integrated with eBay and was started with the same mission in mind that motivated the creation and adoption of Bitcoin. If it doesn't occur to you that dark markets are in fact fertile hotbeds of innovation, then perhaps you're just too "victorian" for some of these things and this might be why some of you miss the boat from time to time.

I've been listening to this tired nonsense since 2012; that it's only good for buying drugs or that it doesn't introduce anything new. Nonsense. If you're experienced in the field of computer science, I should hope you'll look into the byzantine generals problem and how Bitcoin solved that and why it's important. Further, if Bitcoin is successfully used to buy drugs (it is) then I suggest that you check your moral qualms at the door when trying to rationally understand why something works or doesn't work. Ask yourself, if Bitcoin can be used to buy drugs, can it also be used to buy oranges? If so, why does it work for both things? Why is it a functional money in either case? If not, why doesn't it? Why isn't it?

Without rational and dispassionate understandings of how this stuff works, you'll just be crying "useless bubble" for the next 40 years while people like me kick back on the beach. Honestly, good and substantial criticism on technical merit is great to read because it's intriguing but "that stuff is used to buy drugs" is no better than some Saudi complaining that it allows women to buy cars...and it's senseless in the face of the fact that the most popular currency used around the world to buy drugs is the USD.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 16, 2017, 09:12:16 PM
Humble, do you have any proof that Bitcoin is owned in majority by people dealing drugs and the like? This is a common slander against an innovative new asset class that doesn't often come with much of any proof. Just sour grapes.

I think Bitcoin is short term overvalued right now, (could easily be wrong watching it jump again) and frankly I believe Bitcoin specifically is going the wrong direction in respect to technical development, (which is why I am interested in Bitcoin Cash looking years ahead) but I think what a lot of people might miss is why this stuff is different. You have to understand that blockchains were the first technical real world implementation of trustless networks which solve the problems that were solved by human based webs of trust previousely.

What really irks me in discussions like this is to see anyone just dismiss one of the most important technical innovations of the century so far just because some people might use it to buy heroin. Well news flash, PayPal was first used to buy pornography and drugs before any of you might have known how well it would have integrated with eBay and was started with the same mission in mind that motivated the creation and adoption of Bitcoin. If it doesn't occur to you that dark markets are in fact fertile hotbeds of innovation, then perhaps you're just too "victorian" for some of these things and this might be why some of you miss the boat from time to time.

I've been listening to this tired nonsense since 2012; that it's only good for buying drugs or that it doesn't introduce anything new. Nonsense. If you're experienced in the field of computer science, I should hope you'll look into the byzantine generals problem and how Bitcoin solved that and why it's important. Further, if Bitcoin is successfully used to buy drugs (it is) then I suggest that you check your moral qualms at the door when trying to rationally understand why something works or doesn't work. Ask yourself, if Bitcoin can be used to buy drugs, can it also be used to buy oranges? If so, why does it work for both things? Why is it a functional money in either case? If not, why doesn't it? Why isn't it?

Without rational and dispassionate understandings of how this stuff works, you'll just be crying "useless bubble" for the next 40 years while people like me kick back on the beach. Honestly, good and substantial criticism on technical merit is great to read because it's intriguing but "that stuff is used to buy drugs" is no better than some Saudi complaining that it allows women to buy cars...and it's senseless in the face of the fact that the most popular currency used around the world to buy drugs is the USD.

Hello, Psycho and welcome back.

Since you challenged me, "Humble, do you have any proof that Bitcoin is owned in majority by people dealing drugs and the like? This is a common slander against an innovative new asset class that doesn't often come with much of any proof. Just sour grapes." and in fact, this is based on my original assertion, I think it is now up to you to prove otherwise, that in fact, Bitcoin, as well as other "cryptocurrencies", is not largely owned by the underworld.

Secondly, as in the past, you make it "personal" by accusing me and others and attempting to "color us" because of our opinion ie: "Victorian", "sour grapes" and the like. It would be nice for you to stick to the subject and the facts which you can muster to "try" to support your point of view. There is no doubt in my mind that you are well read on the financial areas and a great asset in this forum but you have to learn to control your angry tone.

My overall contention to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies is and has been, that in an organized world where the norm is where central banks control every aspect of finance, such "innovative" technologies will either be absorbed by them or made useless by simple enforcement of regulations which they control.  Prior to Breton Woods, in 1944, the USA had the largest gold reserve and that is why it was agreed by attending nations, to allow the USD to become the reserve currency. In other words, the USD, like it or not, is still anchored to gold. Perhaps the next step would be that the USD would, in turn, be anchored to some cryptocurrency for yet better efficiency of transactions, "but" and this is a BIG but, I doubt it, here is a quote:

"Bitcoin was supposed to disintermediate the finance industry — the system of banks and middlemen and transaction fees in which a single entity can hold your money hostage. Instead, it replicated this system and made it worse. Ordinary users all trust third parties to verify transactions and hold their money. The price is so volatile that no one wants to use Bitcoin for payments. And thanks to the current bubble, the electricity required to maintain the Bitcoin network is skyrocketing. “Bitcoin was supposed to demonstrate the power of a true free market,” the developer Adam Chalmers tweeted on Wednesday afternoon when the average price of Bitcoin was around $13,000. “Instead it's full of scams, rent-seekers, theft, useless for real purchases and accelerates climate change. Mission accomplished.”  ( Dewet Diener ).

Regards, :)
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on December 16, 2017, 09:41:42 PM
So you can't prove your mischaracterization of the cryptocurrency space. Fine, glad that's settled.

The USD is not anchored to gold. It is anchored to a petroleum based economy and is now being eroded in its supremacy by countries like China, Brazil and Russia moving to use currencies other than the USD to settle oil and gas market transactions. I don't know why you'd say that the USD was anchored to gold and invoke bretton Woods in such an absurd supposition. Bretton Woods was the flashpoint where the USD was specifically separated from gold, not anchored to it.

As for the quote you cite, I don't know the author but I agree with some of it. This is why I mentioned Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. The Bitcoin core developers have, in significant fashion diverted away in my opinion from what I believe makes cryptocurrency most intriguing. The rather wonderful part of that disappointment though is that there is zero restriction in respect to how one can move from one crypto to another should they be so inclined which is why Bitcoin Cash is intriguing to me as a cryptocurrency who's community more aligns with what I think is explained in the original Bitcoin whitepaper published by the creator of Bitcoin.

While the crypto economy expands and while a myriad of new people who don't understand it get involved because of whatever new hysterical reporting they've seen on CNBC, you will naturally see a lot of people get hurt by scams. The more disruption there is of the norm, the more the new will cause pain and the faster we see growth, the more of that growing pain will be experienced in the aggregate. I think that's sad, but it's also an historical constant. When new things come along, people learn by doing and in so doing, end up getting bumps and bruises along the way. One of my biggest peeves is that cryptocurrency is largely introduced in places like African developing economies by way of MLM ponzi scams. When these inevitably collapse and people are robbed of their savings by scammers, people inevitably feel conned and place a great deal of blame on crypto itself. This is sad because people condemn the tool just as much as the person who used it and they end up and ill-informed and hostile to free market money as you HT.

As for energy usage, while energy usage of the Bitcoin network is a problem in my eyes, there's two things to note about that. First, Bitcoin uses a small fraction of gold mining per dollar of value in the system than gold mining does, and that's before you even factor in things like transportation. In fact, if you compare Bitcoin to mose financial sectors, it's madly efficient unless you buy into some gross mischaracterizations of how energy is allocated. Hint: while you can say it takes so much energy to make one transaction on the network, you should know that depending on the network's configuration, you can use the same energy for 100, 1,000 or a million transactions. That brings me to the second point re: energy usage; the Bitcoin mining algo' is the first that was developed. Researchers have been working on much less energy intensive algos like Proof of Stake which swaps computing power for economic share in a crypto currency's network. Ethereum's Casper release will including a staking protocol along with other intriguing network advances and it will effectively reduce the Ethereum network's power usage to that of a few thousand desktop computers. Perhaps less.

Bottom line, money itself hasn't seen technical innovation for about 200 years. I'm sorry that you don't understand how programmable money is a leap forward and how solving the byzantine generals problem was actually a significant advance of computer science, but the rational response isn't just gripe that drug dealers use it and kick rocks. Seriously, grow up. Even if you COULD prove your silly supposition, drug dealers were some of the first to take advantage of cellular telephones en masse. They were some of the first to use PayPal. Guess those things are useless and to be avoided as well? I invoke the "victorian attitude" insult because you've obviously let your silly personal moral foibles blind you to actual technical innovation. Sorry that you don't see what's happening in front of your own eyes but unless you start to separate your personal qualms from your analysis, you'll just remain blind.

Edit:

Oh, and regarding your contention that disruptive innovations will simply be co opted by central systems; in large part I think that's a short term inevitability but it's born of necessity, not preference. Ripple for instance is a cryptocurrency that is specifically tailored to being use by banks and it's a distributed system rather than a decentralized one. It's a blatant attempt by banks to find a compromise between decentralized blockchains and the old system, and it'll likely work for some years but it will still be less free and accessible than any open blockchain systems that come along or survive. You're thinking old world and you're behind. That's all there is too it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 16, 2017, 10:05:45 PM
So you can't prove your mischaracterization of the cryptocurrency space. Fine, glad that's settled.

The USD is not anchored to gold. It is anchored to a petroleum based economy and is now being eroded in its supremacy by countries like China, Brazil and Russia moving to use currencies other than the USD to settle oil and gas market transactions. I don't know why you'd say that the USD was anchored to gold and invoke bretton Woods in such an absurd supposition. Bretton Woods was the flashpoint where the USD was specifically separated from gold, not anchored to it.

As for the quote you cite, I don't know the author but I agree with some of it. This is why I mentioned Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. The Bitcoin core developers have, in significant fashion diverted away in my opinion from what I believe makes cryptocurrency most intriguing. The rather wonderful part of that disappointment though is that there is zero restriction in respect to how one can move from one crypto to another should they be so inclined which is why Bitcoin Cash is intriguing to me as a cryptocurrency who's community more aligns with what I think is explained in the original Bitcoin whitepaper published by the creator of Bitcoin.

While the crypto economy expands and while a myriad of new people who don't understand it get involved because of whatever new hysterical reporting they've seen on CNBC, you will naturally see a lot of people get hurt by scams. The more disruption there is of the norm, the more the new will cause pain and the faster we see growth, the more of that growing pain will be experienced in the aggregate. I think that's sad, but it's also an historical constant. When new things come along, people learn by doing and in so doing, end up getting bumps and bruises along the way. One of my biggest peeves is that cryptocurrency is largely introduced in places like African developing economies by way of MLM ponzi scams. When these inevitably collapse and people are robbed of their savings by scammers, people inevitably feel conned and place a great deal of blame on crypto itself. This is sad because people condemn the tool just as much as the person who used it and they end up and ill-informed and hostile to free market money as you HT.

As for energy usage, while energy usage of the Bitcoin network is a problem in my eyes, there's two things to note about that. First, Bitcoin uses a small fraction of gold mining per dollar of value in the system than gold mining does, and that's before you even factor in things like transportation. In fact, if you compare Bitcoin to mose financial sectors, it's madly efficient unless you buy into some gross mischaracterizations of how energy is allocated. Hint: while you can say it takes so much energy to make one transaction on the network, you should know that depending on the network's configuration, you can use the same energy for 100, 1,000 or a million transactions. That brings me to the second point re: energy usage; the Bitcoin mining algo' is the first that was developed. Researchers have been working on much less energy intensive algos like Proof of Stake which swaps computing power for economic share in a crypto currency's network. Ethereum's Casper release will including a staking protocol along with other intriguing network advances and it will effectively reduce the Ethereum network's power usage to that of a few thousand desktop computers. Perhaps less.

Bottom line, money itself hasn't seen technical innovation for about 200 years. I'm sorry that you don't understand how programmable money is a leap forward and how solving the byzantine generals problem was actually a significant advance of computer science, but the rational response isn't just gripe that drug dealers use it and kick rocks. Seriously, grow up. Even if you COULD prove your silly supposition, drug dealers were some of the first to take advantage of cellular telephones en masse. They were some of the first to use PayPal. Guess those things are useless and to be avoided as well? I invoke the "victorian attitude" insult because you've obviously let your silly personal moral foibles blind you to actual technical innovation. Sorry that you don't see what's happening in front of your own eyes but unless you start to separate your personal qualms from your analysis, you'll just remain blind.

Edit:

Oh, and regarding your contention that disruptive innovations will simply be co opted by central systems; in large part I think that's a short term inevitability but it's born of necessity, not preference. Ripple for instance is a cryptocurrency that is specifically tailored to being use by banks and it's a distributed system rather than a decentralized one. It's a blatant attempt by banks to find a compromise between decentralized blockchains and the old system, and it'll likely work for some years but it will still be less free and accessible than any open blockchain systems that come along or survive. You're thinking old world and you're behind. That's all there is too it.

No doubt, like you, there is much of what you said that I agree, but you continue to use abrasive language which is not conducive to a civilized discussion. Let me just end by saying as an "Old world" person, that if it were not for my ancestors, you and I would not even have the language to discuss "crypto"  (Greek) currencies. Second, although you claim to understand the technology about blockchain you are merely scratching the surface in terms of knowledge about the most innovative technologies on the horizon which will make Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies look like baby carriages standing next to a Lamborgini.

I know you will not hold back and have the last word, as always  :D, but I will not respond again "for now".  ;)

Again, welcome back.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on December 16, 2017, 10:20:47 PM
I don't know what new technologies you're referring to because you haven't mentioned any, so maybe I'm missing something, and maybe you've no idea what I'm looking forward to. Since you've given me the last word, (lol) I guess we'll just leave that to the imagination.

And thanks for the welcome back, but I never left. I stepped out momentarily to focus on more leisurely pursuits. Recently we had some of the best boating weather I've ever seen since coming down here. THE best in fact. I look like a boiled lobster now, but it was well worth it. A friend of mine got us invited out on a private charter catamaran which took us out to come of the local cays. I even saw some baby cuttlefish just randomly. Blew my mind.

Anyhoo, back to how Bitcoin is a den of inequity and cryptocurrency is riddled with sexual diseases or something.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 16, 2017, 10:28:32 PM
I don't know what new technologies you're referring to because you haven't mentioned any, so maybe I'm missing something, and maybe you've no idea what I'm looking forward to. Since you've given me the last word, (lol) I guess we'll just leave that to the imagination.

And thanks for the welcome back, but I never left. I stepped out momentarily to focus on more leisurely pursuits. Recently we had some of the best boating weather I've ever seen since coming down here. THE best in fact. I look like a boiled lobster now, but it was well worth it. A friend of mine got us invited out on a private charter catamaran which took us out to come of the local cays. I even saw some baby cuttlefish just randomly. Blew my mind.

Anyhoo, back to how Bitcoin is a den of inequity and cryptocurrency is riddled with sexual diseases or something.

You make me jealous. (LOL), up here it was -29 C, with the wind factor. Ooops.. I said you would have the last word. SORRY!  :-X

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Edit: You might want to read this, something I had mentioned ages ago in this forum. Although it states, "a long way off", there should be a mention of the Chinese having already reached such a level of advanced technology :

https://www.forbes.com/sites/amycastor/2017/08/25/why-quantum-computings-threat-to-bitcoin-and-blockchain-is-a-long-way-off/#52bbd1a42882

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article179972161.html





Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 28, 2017, 03:15:58 PM
There has been another hack of a Bitcoin exchange.

 Youbit, a relatively small South Korean cryptocurrency exchange, announced it was hacked and has lost 17% of its coins (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Korean-crypto-exchange-Youbit-hacked-again-files-for-bankruptcy), stored in the online hot wallet. This has made the owner company Yaffian Co. to halt operations on the exchange and file for bankruptcy.

This is the second time in 2017 Youbit was hacked, after in April thieves made off with over 4000 bitcoins. After the first attack the exchange took measures to improve security, but has obviously fallen prey to the hackers once more.

They improved their security so much that they got hacked again. :(
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on December 28, 2017, 03:20:53 PM

fx open also was a victim somehow, they could not clear transactions somehow and supposedly lost a bunch.

its not liquid, i cant even understand how fx brokers can offer that.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 28, 2017, 03:52:11 PM

fx open also was a victim somehow, they could not clear transactions somehow and supposedly lost a bunch.

its not liquid, i cant even understand how fx brokers can offer that.

By the looks of it,  its not investing in Btc that is a sound investment but investment in hacking it; a clean, almost perfect crime "Who done it?"
I wonder if Kim Jong-un, is crying all the way to the bank? Perhaps it's his programmers that actually developed the idea of cryptocurrency; "Smart guy, poor suckers. Fire away, Rocketman!"  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader   8)


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on December 28, 2017, 06:08:15 PM
Oh come on guys. Like nobody ever robbed a bank!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 28, 2017, 06:13:33 PM
Oh come on guys. Like nobody ever robbed a bank!

Masks, guns, getaway plans, that's too hard. Just punch a keypad and whamo, it's in your "wallet". Go find me and prove it. 8)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on December 28, 2017, 06:20:47 PM

fx open also was a victim somehow, they could not clear transactions somehow and supposedly lost a bunch.

its not liquid, i cant even understand how fx brokers can offer that.

Have no troubles trading BTC on my Hotforex and Tickmill accounts. Guess it depends on liquidity provider, though fxopen couldn't boast with solid reputation so far.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 04, 2018, 02:49:51 PM
 An update on the situation in South Korea (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/South-Korea-to-ban-anonymous-cryptocurrency-trading-allow-regulators-to-close-exchanges) - the South Korean government has taken new measures to curb the speculative trading on cryptocurrency exchanges. They will include a ban on opening of anonymous cryptocurrency trading accounts and new laws that will allow regulators to close cryptocurrency exchanges, if needed.
“The government had warned several times that virtual coins cannot play a role as actual currency and could result in high losses due to excessive volatility,” the government said in a statement.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 05, 2018, 12:50:53 AM
An update on the situation in South Korea (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/South-Korea-to-ban-anonymous-cryptocurrency-trading-allow-regulators-to-close-exchanges) - the South Korean government has taken new measures to curb the speculative trading on cryptocurrency exchanges. They will include a ban on opening of anonymous cryptocurrency trading accounts and new laws that will allow regulators to close cryptocurrency exchanges, if needed.
“The government had warned several times that virtual coins cannot play a role as actual currency and could result in high losses due to excessive volatility,” the government said in a statement.

Here is another interesting article to debunk BT's utility as a form of currency exchange:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-04/you-d-be-crazy-to-actually-spend-bitcoin

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on January 06, 2018, 02:09:25 PM
An update on the situation in South Korea (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/South-Korea-to-ban-anonymous-cryptocurrency-trading-allow-regulators-to-close-exchanges) - the South Korean government has taken new measures to curb the speculative trading on cryptocurrency exchanges. They will include a ban on opening of anonymous cryptocurrency trading accounts and new laws that will allow regulators to close cryptocurrency exchanges, if needed.
“The government had warned several times that virtual coins cannot play a role as actual currency and could result in high losses due to excessive volatility,” the government said in a statement.

Here is another interesting article to debunk BT's utility as a form of currency exchange:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-04/you-d-be-crazy-to-actually-spend-bitcoin

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Without government approval Bitcoin has little chances to circulate into real economy. It'd be under constant pressure or should be hided somehow, but without widespread acceptance the interest to it will fade sooner or later.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Iverson on January 10, 2018, 12:39:16 AM

I think they should look at another different currency. I have read of one that is rapidly growing in the market. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 17, 2018, 02:41:31 PM
The Chinese government is planning another clampdown on trading in cryptocurrencies. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/As-China-plans-another-clampdown-on-crypto-trading-Bitcoin-falls-below-10%20000)

According to anonymous “people familiar with the matter”, the government is planning to block access to online platforms and mobile applications that offer “exchange-like services” - both local and offshore. The description, however, is quite vague and it is not clear what exactly the authorities mean.

Authorities will also target individuals and companies that provide market-making, settlement and clearing services for centralized trading, but small peer-to-peer transactions aren’t being targeted.

Meanwhile Bitcoin fell below $10,000.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on January 17, 2018, 03:23:25 PM
China is banning Bitcoin again? What's this like...the 15th time they've done that?

While the markets undergo the massive correction they were destined to undergo after that parabolic rise, the part I'm really loving is the collapse of the Bitconnect ponzi scam. Stuff like that still baffles me, that people would pour money into these obvious scams. It's mind boggling!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 17, 2018, 06:38:48 PM
China is banning Bitcoin again? What's this like...the 15th time they've done that?

While the markets undergo the massive correction they were destined to undergo after that parabolic rise, the part I'm really loving is the collapse of the Bitconnect ponzi scam. Stuff like that still baffles me, that people would pour money into these obvious scams. It's mind boggling!


Hello, Psycho.

Like I said a long time ago on this thread, "No governance, no ligitemency".

The music is neering the end and it's somewhat sad, that some "naive" investors have fallen pray. I won't say more; read the following:

http://business.financialpost.com/technology/blockchain/update-2-bitcoin-jolted-by-regulation-worries-falls-7-pct-on-extended-selloff

Regards,

HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on January 17, 2018, 08:12:45 PM
Cryptocurrencies are immensely more legitimate than government run currencies because their governance is entirely voluntary. Unlike currencies you're forced to use, cryptocurrencies depend entirely on a user's consent to be used in a market.

I'm not sure what kind of abusive relationship you must have been stuck in to think that legitimacy is derived of being forced into something, but my sympathies to ya I guess.

I'm not sure what you expect me to find in that FP article that I haven't seen repeated over and over again since I first entered this market in 2012. The markets went parabolic and a major correction is taking place. This is, in general terms, about as unpredictable as watching grass grow.

If you'd like to predict the death of Bitcoin, I suggest you pen a piece that is credible enough to end up on this website so that you can be added to growing list of those who've said repeatedly that the music is coming to an end lol.

So far, Bitcoin has died 236 times (https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 18, 2018, 12:02:59 AM
Cryptocurrencies are immensely more legitimate than government run currencies because their governance is entirely voluntary. Unlike currencies you're forced to use, cryptocurrencies depend entirely on a user's consent to be used in a market.

I'm not sure what kind of abusive relationship you must have been stuck in to think that legitimacy is derived of being forced into something, but my sympathies to ya I guess.

I'm not sure what you expect me to find in that FP article that I haven't seen repeated over and over again since I first entered this market in 2012. The markets went parabolic and a major correction is taking place. This is, in general terms, about as unpredictable as watching grass grow.

If you'd like to predict the death of Bitcoin, I suggest you pen a piece that is credible enough to end up on this website so that you can be added to growing list of those who've said repeatedly that the music is coming to an end lol.

So far, Bitcoin has died 236 times (https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/).

True, the jungle has no rules and ones animalistic tendencies, "me, myself and I", are really voluntary but long since then, we have evolved and lived under rule and law to which we govern ourselves: Of course, there are some who having lived on "this side" of the organised jungle, have taken some of their riches provided to them by organised society and moved unto an island  unto themselves; no problem with me there, as long as they do not come over to this side of the jungle to benefit from organised societies and exploit their weaknesses, thats called paracitic.

Have a pleasant day and enjoy the island in the sun.  8)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 23, 2018, 02:20:27 PM
South Korea finally made up its mind about cryptocurrencies.  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/South-Korea-to-forbid-anonymous-cryptocurrency-trading-blanket-ban-averted)They oscilated between various measures for the past two weeks (those measures even included a blanket ban, which they eventually rejected), but the final decision is to  the authorities will enforce a ban on anonymous transactions and trading through virtual anonymous bank accounts, starting from January 30. Instead, six South Korean banks will be issuing new trading accounts, in compliance with KYC requirements. This means that the name on the traders’ account at the exchange and in the bank must match.
According to Financial Services Commission (FSC) vice-chairman Kim Yong-beom, on the day the banks roll out those new accounts, anonymous trading will be banned.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on January 23, 2018, 08:09:49 PM
I thought it was kind of hilarious how it was found out that one of the regulators was engaged in insider trading off the back of the rumours they created.  ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 24, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
I thought it was kind of hilarious how it was found out that one of the regulators was engaged in insider trading off the back of the rumours they created.  ;D

Why am I not surprised something like this happened. Human nature is incorrigible.   ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on January 24, 2018, 09:19:46 PM
I thought it was kind of hilarious how it was found out that one of the regulators was engaged in insider trading off the back of the rumours they created.  ;D

Are you talking about South Korea officials? I think its because of lack of regulation and high sensitivity from the market to such news
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on January 25, 2018, 03:42:19 PM
I thought it was kind of hilarious how it was found out that one of the regulators was engaged in insider trading off the back of the rumours they created.  ;D

Are you talking about South Korea officials? I think its because of lack of regulation and high sensitivity from the market to such news

Hahaha, yup. It was officials from the Financial Supervisory Service. They sold off their crypto just before they announced n impending ban on crypto trading, even though no other departments had been consulted on any ban. Good times.

https://news.bitcoin.com/south-korean-officials-caught-trading-on-insider-knowledge-of-crypto-regulations/

RE: Regulation, not I don't don't think a lack of regulation is what causes this. These are just thin markets that are easily manipulated and that'll be true for some time until they grow significantly. Look at what's happening with the regulated futures trading that's going on right now. At contract expiry, big players are incredibly obviously driving the markets to affect their futures settlements and they can do that because the markets are still small enough to do that. It's just an issue of time and market growth. Give it a few years and this behaviour will be largely mitigated.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 25, 2018, 03:57:52 PM
Quote
Hahaha, yup. It was officials from the Financial Supervisory Service. They sold off their crypto just before they announced n impending ban on crypto trading, even though no other departments had been consulted on any ban. Good times.

I actually hadn't read in detail about what they did. Hahaha, one can't make this stuff up.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on January 29, 2018, 04:32:30 PM
I thought it was kind of hilarious how it was found out that one of the regulators was engaged in insider trading off the back of the rumours they created.  ;D

Are you talking about South Korea officials? I think its because of lack of regulation and high sensitivity from the market to such news

Hahaha, yup. It was officials from the Financial Supervisory Service. They sold off their crypto just before they announced n impending ban on crypto trading, even though no other departments had been consulted on any ban. Good times.

https://news.bitcoin.com/south-korean-officials-caught-trading-on-insider-knowledge-of-crypto-regulations/

RE: Regulation, not I don't don't think a lack of regulation is what causes this. These are just thin markets that are easily manipulated and that'll be true for some time until they grow significantly. Look at what's happening with the regulated futures trading that's going on right now. At contract expiry, big players are incredibly obviously driving the markets to affect their futures settlements and they can do that because the markets are still small enough to do that. It's just an issue of time and market growth. Give it a few years and this behaviour will be largely mitigated.

I wonder did they had accounts for their own names or traded via accounts of their friends, maybe some schemes to hide identity, because it looks too stupid from the first glance
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 31, 2018, 04:18:55 PM
If they did it from their own accounts they have to be even less intelligent than the whole thing implies they are.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on January 31, 2018, 06:36:44 PM
I don't know the details, but I don't expect regulators to be all that intelligent for the most part.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 01, 2018, 02:34:53 PM
Facebook just banned all ads involving cryptocurrencies, ICOs and binary options  across its network and partnering sites.  (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Facebook-bans-cryptocurrency-ICO-binary-options-ads)
According to the new company policy, “ads that promote financial products and services that are frequently associated with misleading or deceptive promotional practices, such as binary options, initial coin offerings and cryptocurrency“ are prohibited. The ban will apply to all platforms of the company, including Facebook, Audience Network that places ads on third party apps, and Instagram.

On one hand I can't say I am overjoyed at such blatant censorship, on the other hand, I have seen a lot of bucketshops getting advertised there.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on February 01, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
Crypto is disturbing world order and somebody is very afraid  ::)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 01, 2018, 08:16:35 PM
More likely, the bubble has just popped. Nothing new under the sun.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 01, 2018, 11:12:08 PM
No, it's more because of really poor quality ICOs resulting in some terrible investment disasters among people getting ripped off. It's not surprising, and I've been told that the company intends to go wide breadth at first by banning everything and then start to selectively scale the ban back as the marketplace shows more regulatory normalcy.

I mean, it's "censorship" in a sense but it's their media platform. They can do what they want with it. ICOs and cryptocurrencies can still have facebook pages and groups. They can't do any advertising presently.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 12:01:53 AM
Makes sense: most of the Bitcoin demand over the past months (aside from the usual dark web demand) has been to purchase tokens in ICOs and its clones called altcoins. Most of their advertising was done through Facebook. Now that Facebook has banned their adverts, the demand for Bitcoin has logically dropped.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 12:44:37 AM
Well, also no. Bitcoin and the crypto markets in general have been in a bear market for the past couple of weeks now. I think people typically try to find specific flashpoints that point a market one way or another when really it's just typical deal flow and market rhythms that we're all already generally familiar with.

Also, ICOs can produce altcoins. Altcoins are any cryptocurrency that is not Bitcoin. This definition typically includes tokens and coins which are defined as tokens existing on a host blockchain and coins having their own independent blockchain. For example, Ethereum is an altcoin coin because it has its own blockchain. The curren EOS ICO token is an altcoin token because it exists as an ERC20 token on the Ethereum blockchain.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 12:52:05 AM
The absolute majority of altcoins and crypto tokens closely follow the Bitcoin rate fluctuations. They're just projects to steal your Bitcoins, backed by nothing but plans, promises, and the Bitcoins that were paid for them. And Bitcoins, in turn, are only worth the dollars that were paid for them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 01:21:29 AM
I don't strongly disagree with that, I was more just addressing your assertion that Bitcoin price has declined because of this facebook ban. The price decline of Bitcoin and other cryptos started long before this facebook ban might have affected any demand for Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 01:27:41 AM
I mean the second wave of price decline which started this week. The first one in December was just a retreat from the bubble's peak.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 01:52:43 AM
Yeah, I don't really think the facebook ban has much to do with that. For one, I think it only just went into effect today, and for two this has been market sentiment for a while that is pretty familiar. I remember the Bitcoin market coming off the late Dec 2013 parabolic high and bearish market sentiment persisted well into Aug/Sep 2014. This market doesn't work the same way as traditional markets because it's far too new and far too susceptible to shocks that are sometimes down to news like this, and sometimes down to simple market psychology as applied to a LOT of dumb/new money.

Bear market is likely to continue for a while I think and that was my sentiment previous to this announcement. Facebook isn't a market breaker. It's the same as hearing that China's banned Bitcoin for the 20th or whatever time. In the very short term, there might be an affect here, but I sincerely doubt it. I think speculative hype has simply worn off and in this market, because there's so much evangelism involved, that can take a while to wear off creating a sustained bearish market. The funny trick here though is that there's no telling what might actually set that in reverse again. Significant technical developments in the blockchain space, unlike impotent bans of the tech can actually have an impact. Look for Ethereum's Casper release for instance which the market will absolutely react to because it's pensively waiting for it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 02:05:23 AM
I don't think Ethereum's Casper will have more effect than Bitcoin's Lighting Network did.

Yes, Bitcoin is a repeated use Ponzi scheme, with the average periodicity of a big pump and dump at two years. Last time it was out of demand for most of 2014, the entire 2015, and the first half of 2016 (what you call "a bear market", lol). Every new time they manage to make the pump and dump bigger than the previous one but for how long? Its practical use remains marginal - mainly, for online gambling, pyramid schemes dubbed "ICOs", and the dark web (extortion, hacking, drugs, weapons, DDOS attacks, stolen belongings, fake IDs, killings, bribes, you name it).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 02:28:32 AM
Well, Lightning is vapourware. It's not had impact because it's still not really working and there's credible doubt that it ever will.

Bitcoin is a functional unit of account. To dismiss it as a ponzi scheme is to be ignorant of both monetary theory, and what a ponzi scheme is. Don't be so silly. It's a nascent market that has yet to grow out to common ubiquitous use The stigma you're placing on Bitcoin is he same stigma that was placed on PayPal when it first started and was used by the dirtier corners of the web.

Bottom line is that the technology involved here solves some significant 3 decade old problems that computer scientists have been trying to figure out for a long time. To dismiss one of the most significant scientific breakthroughs in that field as just a multiple use ponzi scheme is, in my view, pretty short sighted...but then that's probably why I bought at the low two digits and why you're on here calling it a ponzi. The market speaks louder than opinions about it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 02:45:45 AM
Precisely because the market speaks louder than opinions, Bitcoin's price is in such a free fall. If it was truly a revolutionary technology meant to replace dollars, why is everyone so obsessed with its dollar value?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 03:02:51 AM
Same reason that gold is priced in dollars..and cars are priced in dollars. It's the most common unit of account. That is a question born of some serious lack of understanding of monetary theory I'm afraid. i'm not trying to be abrasive, confrontational or a jerk to you man. I just don't see how you're being rationally dispassionate in your judgements here.

As for the price freefall, it's been historically observed and will be again. When markets grow fast, they contract fast. As a global market in the hundreds of billions presently, the whole crypto market is simply not a stable market and it won't be until it's much much much larger. Nascent markets are never stable unless they've maxed out their potential market growth for some reason.

Bitcoin price has "free fallen" from about $995 one year ago to $8,822 today.

What's funny here is that I'm not even a particularly big fan of BTC in particular. I think it's losing market appeal to other simmilar techs.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 04:01:23 AM
Yes, there's still room to short it. Its price has grown crazy over the past year but its mass adoption has not.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 02, 2018, 04:10:56 PM
I feel bad for the people who bought at the high. They must be hurting now, and badly.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 04:21:57 PM
Panic buying is about as bad as panic selling. Tuition paid for those lessons can be just horrible.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 02, 2018, 06:48:24 PM
Hello,  Psycho.

Come and see how its done:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-02/china-crypto-exodus-leads-to-cheap-clean-power-in-chilly-canada

What a waste of human energy to produce hot air!

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 06:59:08 PM
Yeah, the crackdown on miners in that country has caused a shift, but this is one reason that Iceland has already been so popular for years for crypto mining on proof of work chains. In fact, what a lot of people might not know is that a lot of so called Chinese miners already have major operations in Iceland and other chillier countries.

Also, I don't think this is a "waste", though I'm looking forward to the proliferation of Proof of Stake and Delegated Proof of Stake blockchains because they trade virtually 100% of the energy cost for improvements in efficiency and scalability. It's actually really cool, not that i expect you to understand why. Specifically on the "waste" front, if the market shows a capacity for electricity usage directed toward securing blockchains, then it's not a waste. It's simply what the market demands and should be allowed to price rationally. Further, it's because the market has been able to price this resource allocation that the advances I mention in this post are being pursued. Simple economics. If a blockchain can do the same thing another blockchain does and use statistically zero energy to do so comparably, the other blockchain will have far greater appeal to the market should that first blockchain not adapt.

Again, I don't expect you to understand man. You're an angry retiree that can't come to grips with the fact that your pension is a pittance, the result of being lied to about how the world works. That's not the profile of a future thinker. Don't worry though, if you're around for it, the future will still happen regardless. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 02, 2018, 07:40:22 PM
Yeah, the crackdown on miners in that country has caused a shift, but this is one reason that Iceland has already been so popular for years for crypto mining on proof of work chains. In fact, what a lot of people might not know is that a lot of so called Chinese miners already have major operations in Iceland and other chillier countries.

Also, I don't think this is a "waste", though I'm looking forward to the proliferation of Proof of Stake and Delegated Proof of Stake blockchains because they trade virtually 100% of the energy cost for improvements in efficiency and scalability. It's actually really cool, not that i expect you to understand why. Specifically on the "waste" front, if the market shows a capacity for electricity usage directed toward securing blockchains, then it's not a waste. It's simply what the market demands and should be allowed to price rationally. Further, it's because the market has been able to price this resource allocation that the advances I mention in this post are being pursued. Simple economics. If a blockchain can do the same thing another blockchain does and use statistically zero energy to do so comparably, the other blockchain will have far greater appeal to the market should that first blockchain not adapt.

Again, I don't expect you to understand man. You're an angry retiree that can't come to grips with the fact that your pension is a pittance, the result of being lied to about how the world works. That's not the profile of a future thinker. Don't worry though, if you're around for it, the future will still happen regardless. :)

Yup, I expected your degrading response and once again my response is the same,  a difference of value systems:

I am outside a kindergarten school right now waiting to pick up six beautiful children and drive them home, I can't wait to see them and their life of joy. Although it is -20 c, outside,  my heart and sole is filled and beaming with warmth.  As an "old fart", as you put it, I am also happy once in a while, to produce some hot gas which will also have some value to meet your needs. ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
Hey, even though I sometimes mean to be a jerk like in this case, truth is it usually just comes naturally. Glad to hear you're enjoying family time on the eve of this weekend. Stay warm you senseless twit. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 02, 2018, 08:02:53 PM
Hey, even though I sometimes mean to be a jerk like in this case, truth is it usually just comes naturally. Glad to hear you're enjoying family time on the eve of this weekend. Stay warm you senseless twit. :)

Thank you, Just to clarify a point: Although I consider these children " family", I have no blood relationship.  They are under privilsdged children of my community from low income families which can use all the help they can be offered. I am sure you too personally understand their needs.

Have a good weekend.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 08:06:45 PM
Excellent. There's a lot of need like that where I am presently and it's not too difficult to take a day here and there to devote to helping those people out. Even an impolite jackass like me can see the value in that.

For now though I'm just nursing probably the worst sunburn I've ever had. I can't even walk all that well, my legs are so torched.

Good weekend indeed. Just so ya know, Bitcoin trading exchanges are open 7 days a week just in case you decide you wanna get into that market. ;) Hahaha
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 11:12:14 PM
When I was a kid, we played Monopoly and there was imaginary money there too. Its supply was also limited by the rules of the game. Yet no one was willing to pay us real money for it back in the day.

With Bitcoin, it's even worse - while you can't uncontrollably print Bitcoin itself, you can uncontrollably print other fake money and buy Bitcoin with it, then (having propelled the price up), unload it onto bagholders for the good old dollars. Rinse and repeat: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitfinex-printed-one-third-usdt-receiving-subpoena/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 11:31:00 PM
When I was a kid, we played Monopoly and there was imaginary money there too. Its supply was also limited by the rules of the game. Yet no one was willing to pay us real money for it back in the day.

With Bitcoin, it's even worse - while you can't uncontrollably print Bitcoin itself, you can uncontrollably print other fake money and buy Bitcoin with it, then (having propelled the price up), unload it onto bagholders for the good old dollars. Rinse and repeat: https://news.bitcoin.com/bitfinex-printed-one-third-usdt-receiving-subpoena/

What the...that was a weird comparison. There is no monetary theorem I'm aware of that would assert that monopoly money from the Monopoly board game could be used as a functional currency. Honestly man, you need to start making logical statements if you wanna talk about this stuff.

Other Bitcoin clones can be (and have been) made, and frankly I think that's a great thing. I don't know why people think that competition among monetary instruments is a bad idea and while yes the beginning of that will likely see a lot of inexperienced traders lose a lot of money, that's part of how markets grow and mature. Ultimately the market should be allowed to gravitate towards a currency or currencies of preference and the notion that a currency could be copied completely and improved upon some how is enormously wonderful to me. In the day of wildcat banking in the USA, that's (competition) what made for such robust regional currencies until the federal government put a stop to it because they wanted control. They'd tell you it's because of local banks collapsing, but that happened less often in the American free banking era than in times when the government controlled currency with legal tender laws.

Anyway getting back on track, Tether is a pretty legit' concern I think. Every investment concern I know that's involved in crypto and worth its salt doesn't buy it (cause that wouldn't really make sense as an investment) and doesn't use it. That said, I think the most recent analysis of it's valuation have largely mistaken up and down spikes in demand for the stable coin for changes to its backing structure, but we don't really know because it's an unaudited black box in many ways. However, its systemic risk posed to the broader crypto markets is IMO, waaaayyy overstated. Really I just think that Tether's problems bolster the opinions of people like me who might argue that stablecoins don't really make a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 02, 2018, 11:33:35 PM
Even from a practical standpoint, there's no incentive to use Bitcoin for legit day-to-day payments, as it's costlier and slower than Paypal, Neteller, or credit/debit cards (not to mention that your dollar value on them is at no risk of halving in one month).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 02, 2018, 11:52:54 PM
Yup, as a currency most cryptos are not practical presently for a number of reasons. Bitcoin has been pretty much trashed by its development team though it's all been in the name of making it more usable in the future with software that as I may have mentioned earlier is surrounded by some notable doubts. Scalability for a few years now has been the chief issue to be addressed and we're on the edge of seeing some of the most thoughtful solutions coming off of testnets and being deployed into the marketplace.

That and other stuff in the space is pretty cool, but if you wanna just call it pretend money and laugh it off, no sweat off my back. I've heard that since 2012. I hear it less now, but it's still fun to address here n' there. ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 12:24:02 AM
It's not just pretend money. It's also a repeated use pyramid scheme.

Payments use is what makes money real. Bitcoin sees very little of it relative to its current valuation - even after the massive dump of the past month.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 12:37:46 AM
Ok then.

Hahaha. I guess at a certain point it gets repetitive and long in the tooth responding to these things. Keep looking as far ahead as your nose. Like HT, even if you're persistently ignorant of the future, it'll still be here for you later. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 01:00:49 AM
Over the past ten years of Bitcoin's life, it's only been the future for its "early adopters" who have repeatedly pumped and dumped it. It shouldn't take an allegedly revolutionary technology a whole of ten years to become widely used, provided it's not top-secret.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 01:24:59 AM
Well that's just ignorance of how markets evolve. Amara's law famously states that "We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run." The largest and most successful companies on the internet were built after the first bubble, when the protocols and the technologies became mature. The biggest problem facing crypto currencies have been failed efforts to keep pace with the market's demand for technological developments because the public is first struck right in the imagination with what the technology can do, and then figure out that it can't do much of that stuff yet. But hey...keep your short sighted position. That's cool.

Also, Bitcoin is 9 years old, not 10. ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 05:27:10 AM
If nine years after one cannot transact cheaply and quickly with the technology in question, the technology is clearly deficient. With Bitcoin, this is something one could actually do in the beginning but cannot anymore for a long time which makes it just laughable. So it doesn't grow due to an increasing market share (like Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, or Google did) but due to fake money frauds like Tether and desperate people like these: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/11/people-are-taking-out-mortgages-to-buy-bitcoin-says-joseph-borg.html
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 06:09:41 AM
Well you can transact quickly and cheaply with Bitcoin Cash, an iteration of the tech that I believe is adherent to the original design philosophy...not to mention a myriad of other cryptocurrencies, again some of which are introducing incredibly intriguing advances in how blockchains work.

Look, I get it, you don't like this new and interesting thing because you don't think it's interesting and you're hostile to it. I'm sorry for you, but your bitterness isn't going to change that people remain interested in it and the market for its use grows.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 06:19:00 AM
A myriad of altcoins (inclusive of Bitcoin Cash) won't help the technology succeed because for that it has to be widely accepted - something even harder to achieve with a whole myriad of altcoins. Also, their dollar values swing just as wildly, so it's impossible to plan and carry out any real-world business with them.

Bitcoin is no longer new and hardly interesting at this point - if only for those trying to sell you their scamcoins for it in order to cash it out for the good old dollars while laughing at you all the way to the bank.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 07:10:50 AM
ok. I'll be sure to tell the folks at Microsoft that just asked my friends to present their predictive AI blockchain project that there's no point...it's not new and interesting and they definitely didn't win a half million dollar seeding prize...because they're not new and interesting. I'll tell them that this pipbuster guy on a forum said so. They'll know.

I got this dude!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 07:22:28 AM
Companies attempt to appear forward-looking by "researching blockchain". Never goes much beyond that though and even when it does, still has nothing to do with Bitcoin which we're discussing here (not blockchain).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 07:28:49 AM
Maybe you're confining your discussion to Bitcoin. I think that's unfortunately myopic. It's like discussing one ingredient in a cake as part of a cake recipe without talking about cake. There's been plenty of discussion prior to our exchange here about blockchain in this thread.

Companies do indeed appear to be forward thinking by researching blockchain tech, and some companies are contributing significantly to some of the most interesting research in the field. I know you're totally ignorant of that research though, so I understand you think a bunch of money is being spent on nothing. As someone who's had the opportunity to chat with some of the most well recognized computer scientists and mathematicians in the space and who's had a front row seat in watching classrooms full of new developers learning how to code with languages like Solidity and Rust.

But yeah...nothing to see here. Pipbuster said so lol.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
Your personal attacks just won't fly here. This forum's members have seen way too many elaborate online scams over the years to fall for more stories by "gurus". And besides the stories, there isn't much to it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 08:18:57 AM
Look, I'm only arrogant because I think I'm smarter than you. if you gave me some reason to think otherwise...like offering some substantive reason for your bitterness over Bitcoin, maybe i'd talk to you like an adult rather than like someone who's angry they didn't buy when I did.

Food for thought here. You said that Blockchain tech isn't compelling because it's 9 years old and hasn't achieved what people say it can potentially achieve. This video linked below was broadcast in 1994. Basically no one used the internet day to day and now, it's integral to our lives. It was in the 60's and 70s when technologies responsible for NPL network, ARPANET, Tymnet, the Merit Network, Telenet, and CYCLADES were being built. Up to 34 YEARS before this news broadcast pondering what this thing that academics were so interested in could be used for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlJku_CSyNg

lol in 1995, Bill Gates was talking about how people sending emails and publishing written content was "wild" because he understood what it meant for the future. If we were talking to you in 1995, you'd probably say this innerneht thang was a durned fad!

Again, I get it. You're bitter and angry and you'd rather cast shade than research because you've let your bitterness get the best of you. Whatever man...personally I'm rather optimistic.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 08:30:34 AM
Both of us realize the only way for you to profit off Bitcoin is to unload it onto someone who would be willing to pay more for it than you did (hopefully for you, a lot more). That's why Bitcoin needs all these "evangelists" like yourself. Otherwise, people would just be actively using it and it would be naturally growing thereby.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 08:42:27 AM
If anyone is invested in any technology, they're of course advantaged by others investing in/using that technology. So yeah, I favour it and why wouldn't I be invested in it if I favour it? I do very little evangelizing, I only typically respond to ill-informed stuff like what you'd posted here. I've only responded to your suppositions, not preached the good word of crypto and encouraged anyone to buy.

In fact, I'll say here that crypto currencies are still madly experimental and even established cryptos like Bitcoin could very quickly give way without much warning to competing technologies, or be dashed by a severe technical flaw if something gets coded wrong. If you're investing, you should do so carefully and with only equity that you can risk losing completely or you'll end up like people who bought at a high and panic sold on the way down realizing only equity losses.

For the record, I've only ever used crypto to buy things, pay bills, and a small fraction to fund my forex accounts. None of these decisions correlated to significant market highs or lows. For the most part, I use my crypto to invest in businesses and neat projects.

Nice that you blast me for some "personal attacks" just because I'm arrogant, and then you go on to actually question my ethics. That's pretty two faced.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 11:21:09 AM
The main focus of the Bitcoin "early adopters" and "evangelists" has been to get others to buy it from them at a higher price rather than to get others to use it. The latter would indeed be problematic because:

- Bitcoin's dollar value swings too much all the time
- The transactions get ever slower and costlier

Unless and until that is resolved, Bitcoin will remain a "rob Peter to pay Paul" scheme.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 03:21:13 PM
I think I've actually said in this very thread that I'm not a big fan of Bitcoin. I mean, I still like it but I think the core economic modelling is unfortunately now questionable because of the development path it's taken. So i don't think my statements match your assumed sleaze which you rather unfairly attribute to me, and anyone else who owns crypto.

Again though, why would someone not publicly favour something they've publicly disclosed an investment in? I might also talk about why certain stocks are worth investing in and explain why I was motivated to do so...guess that's "problematic" in your eyes, though I think people just typically call that full disclosure.

Again though, I've only responded to your nonsense such as pointing out to you that while you chastise Bitcoin for "failing" 9 years in, the Internet had failed by your standards for over 30 years. Your response? To question my ethics.

That's just an absurd and impotent way to argue something. Grow up.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 04:16:56 PM
I didn't touch upon your evident personal agenda until you ran out of valid arguments and resorted to something like this: "But yeah...nothing to see here. Pipbuster said so lol."

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 05:33:17 PM
My evident personal agenda? To what...say how pleased I am with this technology I invested in and that has increased many times in value while I've held tokens connected to it? ZOMG, da horruh!  Haha.

K, well we should probably stop as this is adding nothing productive so if you'd like me to insult you some more, feel free to make yourself look stupid in private messages I guess.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 09:45:06 PM
I won't bother messaging you privately. My warning is to others: for you to profit off Bitcoin, you must re-sell it to them at a higher price.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 10:04:59 PM
Be wary of oranges bought at the supermarket. In order for the grocer to profit off of them, they have to sell to you at a higher price than what they bought the oranges for. That dastardly grocer! What's he hiding?!?!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 03, 2018, 10:24:37 PM
I won't bother messaging you privately. My warning is to others: for you to profit off Bitcoin, you must re-sell it to them at a higher price.

More than this, Pipbuster.

As I have stated before, a "currency", is only a  vehicle of trust backed or guaranteed by a central authority. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are an attempt to evade any central authority, this is very unlikely to happen.  Yes, you can deal in rare comic books, precious paintings and the like but even there, more often than not, anything of substantial worth is usually insured against theft or loss by a legitimate authority like an insurance entity. You can produce any and all cryptocurrencies you want but in the end, they will only have real value if they are backed by a central authority;  we have already been using such "electronic " medium of exchange for years, it is known as a credit/debit card.

So cryptocurrencies are just another hype to which savvy millennials have created a buzz to entice others to invest real money in this craze, like any other pyramid scheme. When the music ends and the musical chairs are gone, the dance floor will be awash with tears until the next fad and the dancing will continue to another fools gold fad. You must give Psycho his 2 cents, he is smart enough and savvy enough to be a disc jockey and knows when the dance is about to end and bow out. As to his vulgarity and arrogance,  it comes with his, "me, myself and I", survival experience to which he has been exposed to in the past in order to survive.  I know and understand where he is coming from and "I understand".

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 10:38:47 PM
Electronic money is nothing new of course. The byzantine generals problem in the field of computer science was band aided away by the electronic banking system by using webs of trust overseen by regulatory forces that are typically corrupted or otherwise routed by economic influence. See for instance HSBC being caught for the fourth time in recent years laundering billions in drug money and being fined a small fraction of their profits.

What's different about crypto currency is not that it's electronic; it's simply that it is accountable to the free market. This is something that politicized monies like the CAD, USD or whatever else are hampered by. People like HT might think that being politicized by central authorities is a good thing, I do not. I think that is a serious market inefficiency and I'm happy to see today the growth of a marketplace that is long term impossible for governments to shutter like they did to electronic private monies like Liberty Reserve.

For a forex forum, there is a galling lack of understanding of monetary theory among the crankier users.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 10:46:11 PM
He further quite laughably compares reselling Bitcoins to reselling oranges for profit. I doubt one can fill their stomach with Bitcoins.

A currency becomes a currency when it is universally accepted within a certain region. Only a handful of businesses in my big city take Bitcoin while the government-issued fiat currency is accepted by everyone. Yet I am somehow expected to exchange my universally accepted fiat currency for limited-use Bitcoin - all that without knowing how much stock I will be able to afford purchasing with it over the coming days/weeks from those few businesses that do accept it because its dollar value swings so wildly. And when I finally will pay with it, I will be charged a fee in the tens of dollars regardless of the transaction amount and my purchase (unlike with a credit/debit card) will take quite some hours to be confirmed.

With all of this in mind, I have zero incentive to use Bitcoin at this point and so do others. Yet I am still expected to acquire it because of its alleged "bright future" (already nine years in the making) and then all I can do with it is unload it onto others for the same fiat currency I paid for it and hopefully turn some profit. I could also gamble online (which I am not into), purchase some illicit items/services on the dark web (which I don't need), or heavily overpay due to the said transaction fees for something I could get with my debit/credit card much cheaper. Not much one can do with this "money".
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Yeah, the oranges thing was almost as bad as you questioning profit motive. I hope you feel really bad about every forex trade you profit from because there was a losing counterparty. *sniffles* You horrid conman you! Hahaha.

As for you being expected to exchange fiat for Bitcoin, who says you're expected to do anything? If you and your cranky self don't want to use Bitcoin, there's no one telling you that you have to. Pay your tax bill though and you HAVE to use the legal tender of the land. No voluntary relationship there. ;) Crypto currencies don't require anyone to tell you to use them, you swimply can if you want to and don't have to if you don't. I don't see what's so terrible about having choices in the marketplace.

There is no universally accepted definition of when a currency becomes a currency. Some monetary theorists have tried to create logical definitions, but none have come to prominence as a universally accepted theory of currency evolution. You're in the right ballpark in that ubiquitous use is almost universally viewed by monetary theorists as indicating that a currency has indeed been born, but what qualifies as "ubiquitous" is a pretty grey area. Worldwide, the entirety of the crypto economy is larger than most countries and cryptocurrencies are used for exchange daily. I'd bet that while not many businesses in your city accept Bitcoin, even fewer of them accept the Thai Baht...so does that mean that the Thai Baht isn't a currency because it's not relevant to you? Bitcoin and other cryptos certainly are relevant to millions of people around the world for actual market exchanges, so it'd seem to me that by and large, many of these things would qualify as currencies if ubiquitous use is the standard of measure to meet.

I'm just gonna skip the volatility argument for now because this has already gotten too long. I'm starting to lose interest in this thread...though I'm glad we've elevated once again beyond simple insults and are discussing more substantial issues relative to crypto. Bottom line, nascent markets are volatile; that's just how they grow. If a market is less volatile, it means it has reached a max' capacity for relative growth/contraction day to day. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've already covered this in this thread.

With all of this in mind, I have zero incentive to use Bitcoin at this point and so do others.

Cool man. You do you!

Yet I am still expected to acquire it because of its alleged "bright future"

What? No! Who's telling you that you're expected to buy this stuff? You think that because someone tells you that they think they're onto something cool and responds to your wrong headed thoughts on it that this means they expect you to buy in? What warped kind of communication are you employing to come to that notion?

Look, if you say silly things, you should expect to be corrected. Not even silly things...just if you assert an opinion that someone might disagree with, you should expect that someone might feel entitled to explain their disagreement. That doesn't mean you're expected to do anything. How on earth did you get there?

Man...you're messed up.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 03, 2018, 11:37:30 PM
Did you notice how emotional you got after your fraud has been called out?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 03, 2018, 11:51:42 PM
Did you notice how emotional you got after your fraud has been called out?

......no?

Seriously, what? What fraud have I engaged in? Saying I like cryptocurrencies and taking the time to explain to you why I think you're wrong in your criticisms is fraud? I'm pretty sure that's pretty disconnected from reality bud. I'm not emotional...I mean I am chuckling to myself a bit here but that's about it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 12:07:32 AM
Actually, I should point out how absurd your label of ponzi scam is. A ponzi is when new money is put into a system specifically to fund withdrawals. A ponzi is unsustainable because new deposits will eventually be unable to keep up with the demand for withdrawals and that's when it collapses.

Crypto currencies do not work this way. New purchase of cryptocurrency do not fund "withdrawals", they fund sales of an asset because it is a party/counterparty relationship as you find in any functional marketplace. Rather than a ponzi structure, this is a supply and demand structure. In a ponzi scheme, the new deposits do not increase demand of an asset because the deposits are being used to fund withdrawals meaning their is no supply/demand based bidding on the asset. In a supply/demand driven system, demand drives price up and supply drives price down. Yes, if you hold an asset and buyers begin to desire the asset more than holders wish to sell it, those holders will benefit by way of paper appreciation of the asset. That's not fraudulent...that's a marketplace.

If you believe that Bitcoin and other digital assets in this new asset class are fraudulent, then you must explain how a supply and demand based system of bidding for gold, silver, coffee contracts and so on are also ponzi scams. I'd assume that you'd consider this to be different because these assets are intangible, but as you've already alluded to, we use intangible monies for value indexing and exchange already...so that would be hypocritical. Perhaps you don't believe that, I'm just trying to cover all the angles here for your benefit.

Bottom line, ponzi structures are easily identifiably different from supply and demand driven markets. Crypto currencies do not fit any technical definition of a ponzi scheme because they are not ponzi schemes. There are some fraudulent ponzi schemes that use crypto currencies like BitConnect that recently thankfully imploded, but those are very compatible with technical definitions of how ponzis work. There's a clear difference between them and cryptocurrencies that exist in supply and demand driven markets.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 12:07:46 AM
This man knows a thing or two about fraud: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/real-wolf-of-wall-street-calls-bitcoin-a-huge-danger.html
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
Yup, Jordan belfort actually makes a salient point or two and his short term focus was correct. People like me never objected to that and even supported it. It's his longer term implication that's wrong. He doesn't understand how self organizing systems emerge and how they work. What can I say? He's not all wrong and he not all right in my view. He brings an interesting perspective to the table but i don't agree with his conclusions. I'm more sympathetic to Mark Cuban's sentiment in that article that draws specific attention to the risky nature of the crypto marketplace.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 12:17:45 AM
I personally think Bitcoin was originally designed as genuine electronic means of payment but became a pump and dump vehicle, having failed at mass adoption.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 12:20:35 AM
Again, Amara's law famously states that "We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run." If you think that 9 years is "the long run" then you have zero grasp of historical technical paths of development for major globally impactful technologies.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 12:26:17 AM
It is what it is: at this point, Bitcoin is impractical to an average Joe because its transactions are costly, slow, and its dollar value swings wildly. I am a regular person who is not into "globally impactful technologies" and we're the majority. I don't see how it's better for me than my widely accepted, cheap, fast, and predictable in dollar value credit/debit cards or Paypal.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 12:39:00 AM
I haven't seen any claims that it's better for you. The market presently would seem to agree that Bitcoin is not relevant for most people. I dunno about anyone else here, but I never argued otherwise. You made that strawman up in your own head...saying you thought that you're expected to buy something.

If you're not into globally impactful tech, that's fine. For me personally, I love that stuff and in my estimation, this is like stumbling across an opportunity to buy an economic stake in the internet in the 80s. I find that madly compelling but if you don't, or if you don't see it that way, I don't see what the big deal is that someone disagrees with you.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 12:52:51 AM
Why do ICOs promote themselves so aggressively on social media of no one is expected to buy anything?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 01:02:05 AM
Because they want people to invest in their projects. most of them are scams.

Sorry, perhaps you aren't aware that I think ICOs are madly risky and that investors need to tread even more carefully around those than they would around established cryptocurrencies which I have already characterized as highly risky investments.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 01:14:13 AM
I am perfectly aware they're frauds sold for Bitcoins. The aggressive advertising campaigns of these frauds have propelled Bitcoin's price so much over the past months, coupled with the Tether money printing scam.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
No Lambo on FOMO! FUD to the moon! https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/02/bitcoin-biggest-bubble-in-history-says-economist-who-predicted-2008-crash
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 08:54:15 PM
I know someone who's been saying this more and more insistently since Bitcoin was under $100. Actually, I think he first was made aware of it when it was $2 and hastily failed to understand the tech, called it a scam at the time, and then dug deeper and deeper over the years and now just doubles down on his insistence that it'll collapse...all the while having no idea what technical problem the blockchain solves. He's a prominent financial forecaster and also correctly predicted the 2008 bubble's collapse.

So...that's nice.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 04, 2018, 08:57:58 PM
Food for thought:

Bitcoin has routinely experienced major corrections of over 50% (sometimes about 80%) and once even lost over 90% of it's value from a high. Each time it proceeded to reach new highs in following months.

I am not aware of a SINGLE bubble in history that has acted like this. For those who are calling Bitcoin a bubble as in it's a bubble that will collapse to zero, then they must explain why it's a bubble while not conforming to the manner in which all observable bubbles in our history have behaved.

In short, either this is a new kind of bubble which needs to be explained to us, or this is in fact a volatile market that is prone to violent corrections and value changes which decrease into the future as potential market growth area decreases like any other new asset.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 04, 2018, 10:40:58 PM
Why would a bubble have to go all the way down to zero? The early 2000s dotcom bubble didn't. Neither did the 2008 real estate bubble.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 12:52:53 AM
The bubble has to deflate down without regular oscillations to be a bubble unless you're referring to a short term phenom in which case using the word bubble is hyperbolic and technically inaccurate. In any case, bubbles don't oscillate even using this colloquially incorrect meaning. The 2008 bubble was a collapse and then a reestablishment of the foundational marketplace. Same with the dot com bubble. Neither of those "bubbles" oscillated up and down violently because they were in fact bubbles that collapsed.

It really depends on what you mean by bubble. If all you mean is that the market will correct in a huge way before establishing itself and then moving on and then likely correcting several more times, then fine. I'm with ya...but that's not a bubble. Those are corrections in a market. That said, that's not what I get from you when you talk about how Bitcoin is useless and you don't see a market value for it. That sounds like you think it's worthless and if it is so, the market will eventually price something worthless at zero.

So maybe you're just being unclear.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 05, 2018, 01:07:08 AM
The bubble has to deflate down without regular oscillations to be a bubble unless you're referring to a short term phenom in which case using the word bubble is hyperbolic and technically inaccurate. In any case, bubbles don't oscillate even using this colloquially incorrect meaning. The 2008 bubble was a collapse and then a reestablishment of the foundational marketplace. Same with the dot com bubble. Neither of those "bubbles" oscillated up and down violently because they were in fact bubbles that collapsed.

It really depends on what you mean by bubble. If all you mean is that the market will correct in a huge way before establishing itself and then moving on and then likely correcting several more times, then fine. I'm with ya...but that's not a bubble. Those are corrections in a market. That said, that's not what I get from you when you talk about how Bitcoin is useless and you don't see a market value for it. That sounds like you think it's worthless and if it is so, the market will eventually price something worthless at zero.

So maybe you're just being unclear.

Hello, Psycho... I see pipbuster has you burning the midnight oil. :D

As I have stated earlier, you are a smart guy and I know you will know when to bow out in time before the music ends, that is if the turntable and all, run normally gobbling up electricity and producing a lot of hot air; but have you considered if someone suddenly cuts the electric cord? I mean what if at a G20 or other world meeting, they decide overnight to declare a war against cryptos because they are considered money laundering vehicles as they have done with world bank transactions.... "poof" all that hot air, up in smoke. 8)

Don't bother answering, I can't afford to stay up all night to theorize about cryptos, I need to pick up my beautiful kids tomorrow and bring them to school where they like me, will become part of the "deceived citizenry" as you put it, and work for a living, paying those dreaded taxes which you consider thievery.

Good night and sweet dreams watching Bitcoins soar to the stars and beyond.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 05, 2018, 03:00:30 AM
The rapidly growing number of Internet users laid the foundations of the dotcom bubble. Availability of cheap credit with no checks made the real estate bubble possible. With Bitcoin last year, it was Bitcoin-based frauds: ICOs, Tether, USI-Tech, and Bitconnect.

Now that these frauds are under a heavy hit, so is Bitcoin. There's a driver behind every growth. If it was a rapidly growing number of Bitcoin's day-to-day users propelling its price, I would consider it money of the future. However, it has miserably failed at mass adoption over the nine years of its existence and now periodically feeds on various ever more elaborate albeit short-lived online scams.

Unless and until there's a clear advantage of paying monthly bills in Bitcoin as opposed to paying them in fiat, Bitcoin will remain a mere pump and dump vehicle for Internet fraud.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 05, 2018, 12:58:55 PM
Then there are the "whales" - a handful of the earliest adopters and those who got in with substantial amounts relatively early in hopes of Bitcoin's takeoff and mass adoption. As nine years have passed and mass adoption never happened, they ended up holding the bag - something they couldn't like. If they just sold their holdings on the open market, the Bitcoin price would immediately collapse and they would get next to nothing. So they lobbied the introduction of self-regulated futures by a couple of large Wall Street firms. Now they can short those futures while simultaneously selling enough of their Bitcoin holdings for a net profitable exit.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 02:05:52 PM
You guys have fun with your conspiracy theories. I think I've said all I need to here. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 05, 2018, 02:48:30 PM
Yeah, sure - Bitcoin keeps dropping like a brick for no real reason. Just a "correction", lol.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 05, 2018, 04:25:05 PM
Why is Bitcoin dropping so hard though? :( Any theories?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 05, 2018, 05:16:54 PM
Why is Bitcoin dropping so hard though? :( Any theories?


Must be running out of "hot air". :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 05:31:21 PM
Why is Bitcoin dropping so hard though? :( Any theories?

Well because the speculative pressure created a parabolic price increase and to not expect a blow off from that would be a touch over-optimistic. There was very little fundamental cause for that as compared to a mad flurry of speculative pressure. The 200 day SMA puts price there around $6500 I think? That MA has historically been a consistent support level so if it breaks below that, I'd guess it'd be reasonable to look for $1200 or so.

Keeping in mind that I don't day or swing trade cryptocurrencies. My outlook is typically a few years ahead so short term movements aren't really my expertise and frankly, from what i've sene they're probably not many other people's expertise either. ;)

More fundamentally, I think Bitcoin's conservative approach to development and some potential economic flaws in the perspectives shared by some among the development community are creating significant opportunity for the market start diversifying in aggregate away from BTC and into other promising techs. It was once a shock to see Bitcoin's dominance of the market value under 90%. These days it's hovering around 35%, so that's a massive shift in terms of Bitcoin being secure in its spot as top dog in the marketplace.

It was also only in the past couple of years IIRC that the crypto exchanges even started offering trading in non-BTC denominated pairs so now you might see on exchanges more ETH denominated pairs and that I expect will branch out more as Bitcoin dominance becomes an obsolete market observation.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 05:31:48 PM
Why is Bitcoin dropping so hard though? :( Any theories?


Must be running out of "hot air". :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Always plenty of that to offer. I just get tired of repeating myself.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 05, 2018, 05:37:38 PM
Why is Bitcoin dropping so hard though? :( Any theories?


Must be running out of "hot air". :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Always plenty of that to offer. I just get tired of repeating myself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/technology/bitfinex-bitcoin-price.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fnathaniel-popper&action=click&contentCollection=undefined&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 05:46:32 PM
Pretty sure I've said it a couple of times now in this thread, no one I know that has any sense of risk touches USD-T at all. That said, simple demand pressure and dropoffs could be leading to people seriously misunderstanding how it's structured.

The bottom line there is that we can't know unless Tether is credibly audited and my suspicions are that if it were audited, there's a good chance we'd see evidence of fraud. not sure, but I don't think it's at all impossible without being credibly audited which USD-T has not been. If USD-T does turn out to be an insolvent fractional reserve token, it will cause short term market volatility and violent downward pressure but likely not nearly as lasting as some critics might think.

So...tread in nascent markets with caution. Everybody should know this. If you get something out of posting links to articles with no commentary of your own, that's cool too I guess. Doesn't seem very valuable, but to each their own.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 05, 2018, 06:32:28 PM
You guys have fun with your conspiracy theories. I think I've said all I need to here. :)

In all seriousness,  one reason for BC's demise or the "trigger" has been Facebook ' s decision to ban all cryptocurrency advertising:

Mark Z. must have blown his top when he learned that the Winklevoss brothers were using his platform to make money as a result he "shot" them down.

In all fairness to Psycho,  and one who has a deep appreciation and knowledge of the science of crypotechnology, there is a strong future for the blockchain system: Crypto will not dissappear any time soon but untethered cryptocurrencies will.

The blockchain technology is being incorporated into  the mainstream banking system and where originally it has been in the arena of speculators and money launderers, it will be a legitimate way of doing business for the security it offers but in a "regulated" economy.


Regards, 
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on February 05, 2018, 06:34:09 PM
at 5660 there abouts it should find some support is my guess.

but gee, the folks who got in at 19k must be jumping out their windows soon.

sure will be interesting how this all will have played out in the end = in a few years from now.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 05, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
at 5660 there abouts it should find some support is my guess.

but gee, the folks who got in at 19k must be jumping out their windows soon.

sure will be interesting how this all will have played out in the end = in a few years from now.

I do feel sorry for a lot of people who bought at the peake of the most recent mania cycle. You find that in any market though where hot money slaughters inexperienced traders and investors. I mean...that's pretty much why mania cycles exist. There has to be a population of people that chase price action and panic buy for there to be that cycle at all, and they were certainly there.

Myself, I bought some Bitcoin Cash at like $1,600 or so as a part of a routine crypto buying schedule and it's down around $900 or so right now, but I'm not trying to time the markets because as I said earlier, my view is more long term. I can only hope for those who lose out significantly in cases like this that it's a lesson learned about researching and investing in something thoughtfully.

Stuff like this breaks my heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jZxeLX6VY0

It breaks my heart because these people are victims of scammers that use the intrigue of crypto to take advantage of them. Probably about the worst for me personally is that I've been called to consult for org's in Africa that are so excited about some crypto project, and I get there, look at what they're into and I have to break it to them that they're part of a complex scam that has nothing to do with crypto technology. It seriously breaks my heart. I saw a school with 30 students and the trustees had put a huge portion of their resources into what was a complete scam. A school!

The market has a lot of growing to do and I'm just getting off on a tangent here kinda rambling about the worst stuff I see, but all in all I still think the future is incredibly bright for crypto because it actually disrupts markets that haven't seen significant innovation in about 200 years.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on February 05, 2018, 07:50:04 PM
If you do not hold it you do not own it!!! This is what happens when the people are brainwashed from the governments and the media to invest in ZERO value assets and this is what all cryptos are. Any crypto can go to zero in any moment - they are backed up by nothing. The sad irony is that a NSA cover experimental project was sold to the people like some great liberating revolution.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on February 06, 2018, 01:44:07 AM
it keeps on going south, and the dow plunging in the abyss as well.

btc 6524 and dow futures at 23400, holly smokes. we might have fireworks soon with fx pairs as well.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 03:51:33 AM
Psycho, what price will you be actively buying at?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 06, 2018, 05:52:57 AM
I don't target a specific price. On the days I buy I might gauge market sentiment but I generally just try to remember to buy every two or three weeks. When I worked a regular job, I would allot a percentage of my wages to buying every pay period. Like I said, my view is much longer term than observing short term oscillations. :)

these days I don't target Bitcoin. I look more toward things like Monero and EOS.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 06:16:25 AM
When was the last time you bought crypto and at what price?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 06, 2018, 06:21:45 AM
That would have been my Bitcoin Cash buy that I mentioned earlier that I said was about $1,600. I was wrong. It was actually a little over $1,700.

Bitcoin Cash is trading right now around $815. I may buy more soon but other cryptos are more intriguing to me so I'll likely focus on those.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 06:57:46 AM
So at what price do you expect Bitcoin to bottom out this time?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 06, 2018, 07:42:06 AM
5K incoming today for BTC imho. 5k is another psychological level. Most of all mainstream analysts expect 5k as bottom. If not it can be any value from 0 to X. Imho BTC is manipulated by the big boys and they are showing the small people whos the BIG MAC here. This crash started with the introduction of CME - Chigaco Bitcoin Futures and this is the real reason imho
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 07:51:12 AM
5K incoming today for BTC imho. 5k is another psychological level. Most of all mainstream analysts expect 5k as bottom. If not it can be any value from 0 to X. Imho BTC is manipulated by the big boys and they are showing the small people whos the BIG MAC here. This crash started with the introduction of CME - Chigaco Bitcoin Futures and this is the real reason imho

They needed a net profitable exit after Bitcoin failed at mass adoption nine years into its existence. So now they're slowly selling their Bitcoin holdings while also shorting the Bitcoin futures for a net profitable exit.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 06, 2018, 08:24:58 AM
They needed a net profitable exit after Bitcoin failed at mass adoption nine years into its existence. So now they're slowly selling their Bitcoin holdings while also shorting the Bitcoin futures for a net profitable exit.

Yes lucky those guys who sold their BTC at 20k last year. Now the hype is over. Dont expect BTC to be back to such high values soon. Too much damage. But on the other hand BTC is always good for a suprise.
You have to take it as that what it is. A high speculative asset.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 08:54:28 AM
They needed a net profitable exit after Bitcoin failed at mass adoption nine years into its existence. So now they're slowly selling their Bitcoin holdings while also shorting the Bitcoin futures for a net profitable exit.

Yes lucky those guys who sold their BTC at 20k last year. Now the hype is over. Dont expect BTC to be back to such high values soon. Too much damage. But on the other hand BTC is always good for a suprise.
You have to take it as that what it is. A high speculative asset.

No doubt it will now take years (if ever) for Bitcoin's price to recover to those levels. With all the constant mainstream media hype over the past year, all those who wanted to get in already did (and mostly got burned badly) while all others will avoid it like a plague for a long time after this crash. So the crypto swindlers would need to come up with an even more elaborate pump and dump than ICOs to get Bitcoin's price growing again. Sure, the "whales" can start buying it back at the very bottom while simultaneously going long on its futures (the opposite of what they're doing now) but might just as well choose to exit it for good as a derelict project which did not live up to its expectations and focus on "the next big thing", whatever it's going to be. I will probably get some Bitcoins under $200 a piece (and even that would be terribly overpriced) for a long-term gamble on the mere possibility of some buyback by the "whales" which we're still far away from, IMO. Bitcoin is not just a highly speculative asset but a largely speculative one - its day-to-day use as means of payment for goods and services (exclusive of the scam ICO tokens and altcoins) has grown negligibly over the past year.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on February 06, 2018, 09:24:46 AM
The Bitcoin technology has too many problems. The transactions are expensive, it is super inefficient and the transactions take forever. I think it has no future. The Ethereum will be the next leader by market cap I think, but we will see at least several years flat market until this mass robbery is well forgotten.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 06, 2018, 09:39:38 AM
It's not just a memory issue. There will have to be some incentive to buy Bitcoin next time again - like there was this time (to buy the hyped up scam ICO tokens with Bitcoins). If no such incentive exists, no one will be buying and the price will remain flat for long like it did in 2014-2015 after the previous big crash.

One such incentive this time could be the "whales" deciding to go long the futures after they bring the price down to nearly zero. But they might instead decide to hype up some other crypto coin or even something unrelated. Or just sit and enjoy their superprofits and invest them in something tangible. Who knows.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 06, 2018, 03:29:59 PM
lol, your pessimism and conspiracy obsession is so unfortunate.

So at what price do you expect Bitcoin to bottom out this time?

I have no idea. It broke the 200 day moving average very solidly which an historic downward move. $5,000 sounds like a commonly discussed level and I've seen some credible speculation down to $1,200 but I have no idea. I remember riding down from $1,200 to $200 and facing a year of market stagnation. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see something simmilar this time around but I really don't know what's going to actually happen.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 06, 2018, 07:11:53 PM
A bit more infos...

https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/gw0ZsEx1-Bitcoin-is-Gold-supply-vs-demand-drives-market-value/?utm_source=notification_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=notification_follower_idea_update

100k at end of 2018  8)
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/BTCUSD/FPTlinK1-Full-Wave-Count-on-BITCOIN-AKA-BTC-100k-in-2018/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 06, 2018, 07:20:32 PM
By the way: I am heavy invested since two years into this crypto project: ION

They are programming games for Android and Iphones with ION as crypto asset.
Players can get ION as price so you can play for money. They also designed a interface for game developers to integrate the technique in their games. All in all a solid start up imho. They are now sponsor of Kacey Kahne Racing and they will be present at Games Developers Conference 2018.

At the end all the bubble coins without a real business idea will vanish. Hopefully ION and some other coins will profit from this evolution.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 06, 2018, 08:53:33 PM
Just took out the links to the project. I dunno that we wanna turn this into a thread advertising ICOs that we like or don't for whatever reasons. Should try n' keep our discussions here topical and relevant to everyone.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 07, 2018, 07:27:26 AM
Just took out the links to the project. I dunno that we wanna turn this into a thread advertising ICOs that we like or don't for whatever reasons. Should try n' keep our discussions here topical and relevant to everyone.

No problem. Was meant as a info not advertising.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 07, 2018, 07:46:46 AM
The only sure way to make money in an ICO is to run one.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 07, 2018, 11:58:24 AM
This article does a great job explaining the reasons behind last year's Bitcoin/Ethereum crazy price growth: https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017/07/10/the-emperors-new-coins-how-initial-coin-offerings-fueled-a-100-billion-crypto-bubble/#655d14c76ece
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Tradenow on February 07, 2018, 07:45:02 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/907323/Bitcoin-created-spy-US-government-CIA-MI5-secret-mission-fund-pay-price
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on February 07, 2018, 09:45:51 PM
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/907323/Bitcoin-created-spy-US-government-CIA-MI5-secret-mission-fund-pay-price

Exactly!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 10, 2018, 03:20:19 PM
This is the first time I am hearing about this. I am not sure whether I believe it or not.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 10, 2018, 08:20:28 PM
Old conspiracy theory that's been recycled a number of times. Even if it's true, it doesn't change much because it's open source technology that anyone can now use to make whatever iteration of the technology that they wish to make...which many people have done. So if the CIA came up with Bitcoin, I'm sure thankful.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 11, 2018, 03:37:29 AM
Not the CIA but gambling website owners were likely behind it - they desperately needed a tool for their gamblers to bypass the credit card ban around 2007-2008.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on February 11, 2018, 08:16:22 AM
Yes, bitcoin was seriously affected by that, prices plunged more than 10% on that news. Also it was a trigger for general U-turn in crypto market, after which it turned into bearish mode.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on February 11, 2018, 08:46:06 AM
So anyone have a view where will it goes now?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 11, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
Ask Psycho if he compensates you in case it goes on another dive after you buy it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 11, 2018, 10:54:32 PM
Why would I be expected to compensate someone for a trade that hits negative equity after entry?

There are some stocks I like too. I hope you haven't bought them. I'd hate to be liable for your losses!

How old are you? For real.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on February 20, 2018, 04:06:10 PM
Ask Psycho if he compensates you in case it goes on another dive after you buy it.
Why you bully without even a reason? Take some courses on how to stop to be a forum fool :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 21, 2018, 05:35:18 AM
Ask Psycho if he compensates you in case it goes on another dive after you buy it.
Why you bully without even a reason? Take some courses on how to stop to be a forum fool :)

As you don't pay my bills, I couldn't give less damn about you and your advice.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on February 21, 2018, 07:25:50 AM
If you only take advice from the people that pay your bills then I'm worried  ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 21, 2018, 10:20:39 AM
If you only take advice from the people that pay your bills then I'm worried  ;)

Why would you be? No life of your own?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on February 21, 2018, 02:38:06 PM
I'm worried that I'm doing something wrong because I can't seem to find people that would be willing to give me advice and pay my bills. I'm prepared to be given advice and I'm willing to listen to them for a loooong time. Are you paid upfront or when you're done being given advice? It's an interesting concept and I'm certainly interested, as an advice taker of course.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 21, 2018, 03:37:42 PM
I don't appreciate unsolicited advice.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 21, 2018, 04:27:54 PM
Cool, so let's bring the thread back to discussion on Bitcoin, a topic that no one has offered actionable advice on. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 24, 2018, 08:06:04 PM
Hello, Psycho:

In case you doubted my contention that:
1 - crypto without a legitimate authority behind them are just monopoly money.
 2- crypto like Bicoin will eventually be part of the overall banking system when they come under the regulation of governmental authority.


I hope you enjoy the read:

ttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-23/austria-seeks-bitcoin-rules-based-on-gold-derivatives-controls

Question:When such regulations do come into play, would you say the value of Bitcoin will appreciate, depreciate or evaporate?

Regards,

HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 24, 2018, 10:20:19 PM
Hello, Psycho:

In case you doubted my contention that:
1 - crypto without a legitimate authority behind them are just monopoly money.
 2- crypto like Bicoin will eventually be part of the overall banking system when they come under the regulation of governmental authority.


I hope you enjoy the read:

ttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-23/austria-seeks-bitcoin-rules-based-on-gold-derivatives-controls

Question:When such regulations do come into play, would you say the value of Bitcoin will appreciate, depreciate or evaporate?

Regards,

HumbleTrader

Interesting, but typically short sighted. Regulators are unaware of how this new system of digital money operates and why it's valuable in the marketplace. In my humble opinion, money laundering regulations are barbaric and decentralized digital monies are very effective at routing around those regulations. As digital monies become more ubiquitous, the marketplace will finally route highly effectively around the regulators' short sighted attempts at controlling the money market via money laundering laws.

I know you are typically in favour of government control over people's finances, but I harbour a very deep resentment for such things. Those controls produce absolutely absurd results. As an example, a fellow I spoke to recently in New York explained to me that his banks (small banking company) employ 3 compliance officers for every person they employ to serve customers. If you don't think there's a problem with that, then I can see how this kind of regulation into the future would seem sensible and workable.

If the traditional banking system and regulatory schema continue to resort to added friction in the system to meet their goals, it will further devalue the traditional system as compared to the blockchain based systems available. What I think you're missing here is that these systems operate with or without regulatory approval. Market penetration is easier and faster with regulator approval, but in the end it's just a question of which system is more free of transactional friction. Digital blockchain monies that are not controlled by a central authority are much more friction free than other systems and that's all there is to it.

Regulators gonna regulate. Crypto users gonna use crypto. Over time, it's regulators that will lose so far as I see it and I guess that means that the value of crypto increases when regulators do more to either block or accept it. Either way, crypto increases in value over time because it's simply superior to government money. Bottom line I suppose is that I don't think regulators actually have all that much to do with it in the long term. They might shock markets here and there, but that's about it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 24, 2018, 10:46:59 PM
Hello, Psycho:

In case you doubted my contention that:
1 - crypto without a legitimate authority behind them are just monopoly money.
 2- crypto like Bicoin will eventually be part of the overall banking system when they come under the regulation of governmental authority.


I hope you enjoy the read:

ttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-23/austria-seeks-bitcoin-rules-based-on-gold-derivatives-controls

Question:When such regulations do come into play, would you say the value of Bitcoin will appreciate, depreciate or evaporate?

Regards,

HumbleTrader

Interesting, but typically short sighted. Regulators are unaware of how this new system of digital money operates and why it's valuable in the marketplace. In my humble opinion, money laundering regulations are barbaric and decentralized digital monies are very effective at routing around those regulations. As digital monies become more ubiquitous, the marketplace will finally route highly effectively around the regulators' short sighted attempts at controlling the money market via money laundering laws.

I know you are typically in favour of government control over people's finances, but I harbour a very deep resentment for such things. Those controls produce absolutely absurd results. As an example, a fellow I spoke to recently in New York explained to me that his banks (small banking company) employ 3 compliance officers for every person they employ to serve customers. If you don't think there's a problem with that, then I can see how this kind of regulation into the future would seem sensible and workable.

If the traditional banking system and regulatory schema continue to resort to added friction in the system to meet their goals, it will further devalue the traditional system as compared to the blockchain based systems available. What I think you're missing here is that these systems operate with or without regulatory approval. Market penetration is easier and faster with regulator approval, but in the end it's just a question of which system is more free of transactional friction. Digital blockchain monies that are not controlled by a central authority are much more friction free than other systems and that's all there is to it.

Regulators gonna regulate. Crypto users gonna use crypto. Over time, it's regulators that will lose so far as I see it and I guess that means that the value of crypto increases when regulators do more to either block or accept it. Either way, crypto increases in value over time because it's simply superior to government money. Bottom line I suppose is that I don't think regulators actually have all that much to do with it in the long term. They might shock markets here and there, but that's about it.

BIG power brokers, will never accept minows to take control of power (wealth), thus they will always find ways to control everything from blockchain technology to harvesting precious metals from space.

One of many weaknesses of cryptos is that you need a brick and mortars location where you can exchange algorithmic currencies for other valued items, like food and shelter; this is where the "controllers" will crackdown. Another perhaps short-lived need is that cryptocurrencies, like gold, have to be mined using energy or "stored value"; control the mines and you control the currency: This is a simplified example but a more elaborate one is to ask who controls the infrastructure, satellites, communications etc., and can control the entire blockchain system at will?

Just a few thoughts.  :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 24, 2018, 10:51:15 PM
Uhh...no, you don't need a brick and mortar location for exchanging digital currencies for other items of value.

I hear what you're saying about the power brokers but I don't think you realize just how fundamentally removed from their control structures digital currencies are. I'm not trying to talk down to you on this, I just don't think you understand and many people don't. I've talked to rooms full of border security officers explaining to them for instance why simple money transmission rules simply don't apply to digital currencies. Not that digital currencies overcome them, but that they simply don't apply because the rules aren't relevant to how cryptos work.

It's a brave new world out there. You should be a little more hip to it if you plan to take advantage of it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 24, 2018, 11:54:06 PM
Uhh...no, you don't need a brick and mortar location for exchanging digital currencies for other items of value.

I hear what you're saying about the power brokers but I don't think you realize just how fundamentally removed from their control structures digital currencies are. I'm not trying to talk down to you on this, I just don't think you understand and many people don't. I've talked to rooms full of border security officers explaining to them for instance why simple money transmission rules simply don't apply to digital currencies. Not that digital currencies overcome them, but that they simply don't apply because the rules aren't relevant to how cryptos work.

It's a brave new world out there. You should be a little more hip to it if you plan to take advantage of it.

Uhh...no, you don't need a brick and mortar location for exchanging digital currencies for other items of value.
 
Can you please explain how and where I can exchange 12000$ or so Cad for one Bitcoin, where the physical location of "the exchange" is not known? And don't tell me I can do it online, which I will agree but non-the less, the "exchange" will exist at some physical location or else I will be sending my "real" although digital Cad dollars to a location in lalaland which may or may not exist.

The main point, I think that we will both agree is that people fear anything new which they do not understand, it takes time. I agree and understand blockchain technology and see and appreciate its inherent technological advantage, its just that unlike yourself, I am not naive as to what "the system" will and will not tolerate.

Interesting watch; you sit back on your sandy beach and I will do so in my armchair and enjoy the developments. Perhaps someday, I will amass enough "Bit"and "coins" to join you on the beach. LOL ;)

Have a nice weekend.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 25, 2018, 12:01:12 AM
Well, if you set up a local meeting with someone, you can just accept cash for bitcoin. There's a website called localbitcoins dot com that's specifically tailored for that and operates around the world and has operated for several years. I've done $50,000 deals in Timmies locations before using that service.

Services like wall of coins also lets you accept cash deposits in your bank account for escrowed bitcoin exchange if you like.

Decentralized exchanges are presently building infrastructure to facilitate decentralized fiat backed tokens to enable global trade of digital currencies and fiat currencies on the same decentralized networks.

I mean, you need a physical location in that you need to exist as a human being somewhere, but you can do this stuff in the middle of a public park if you want. There's really no limitation in any fundamental sense if you want to exchange your Bitcoin for something of value, you can use it just like cash. That's pretty much the whole point.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 25, 2018, 12:41:58 AM
Well, if you set up a local meeting with someone, you can just accept cash for bitcoin. There's a website called localbitcoins dot com that's specifically tailored for that and operates around the world and has operated for several years. I've done $50,000 deals in Timmies locations before using that service.

Services like wall of coins also lets you accept cash deposits in your bank account for escrowed bitcoin exchange if you like.

Decentralized exchanges are presently building infrastructure to facilitate decentralized fiat backed tokens to enable global trade of digital currencies and fiat currencies on the same decentralized networks.

I mean, you need a physical location in that you need to exist as a human being somewhere, but you can do this stuff in the middle of a public park if you want. There's really no limitation in any fundamental sense if you want to exchange your Bitcoin for something of value, you can use it just like cash. That's pretty much the whole point.

All the points you have made are reasonably good but in "all" cases, there is a "physical" exchange point, where someone (Governmental or other) entity can "choke off" the exchange. The most efficient way I can see is to have an algorithm as part of the blockchain technology which has a time delay to evaluate the transaction ie: Real Dollars vs. Cryptos and further the exchange only when this is verified by the computer(s). There can be no "physical" intervention by anyone once the button is pressed from either side.

In a roundabout way, and this might be a simplified example, we do have something of this sort in FX when multiple players (banking institutions)  bit and ask on a currency and the exchange only takes place when a point of agreement is made.

Like I said, the technology and its repercussions are now just scratching the surface.

I guess you want to have the last word, so go ahead. There is more to come so, I'll bow out for now.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 25, 2018, 01:11:07 AM
Ah, so perhaps you're not really understanding how the internet works. I mean, you can indeed suppose that governments will choke off the use of communication protocols that enable blockchains to function and indeed this can happen, but it would alsop make the internet unusable. You have to understand that this isn't like blocking access to a website. This is like blocking access to an email send and receive function that has no set point of origin.

I'm not sure how you think it's possible to shut down lines of communication that are constantly dynamic. It's like saying ok, you can't say the word doggy Bitcoin in this building...fine...so we go to another building to verbalize the word doggy. now imagine that the number of buildings you have to keep an eye on and regulate communication of the word doggy in are virtually unlimited.

Best of luck.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on February 25, 2018, 07:10:15 AM
There is a good article on how cryptocurrencies and blockchain accounting may proceed.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-03/banks-unwilling-to-work-with-bitcoin-traders/9302340

But I remain puzzled. Yes there are more and more vendors willing to accept payment in Bitcoin or other cryptos but with such wild fluctuations in value, how do you price a good or service, and how much will that fluctuate. eg if I bought 1 bitcoin for $12000 or whatever it is now, how much will I be charged in bitcoin by my favourite coffee vendor? And ultimately that vendor will have to pay at least most staff and suppliers in real currency, at least in the foreseeable future. So how will she deal with the wild fluctuations of bitcoin value?

The growing use of block chain is a different matter. See eg
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/anz-and-westpac-just-successfully-used-blockchain-on-commercial-property-deals-2017-7
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 25, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
Yes, when an asset class has significant capacity for growth, it will remain highly volatile. Since crypto currencies have immense market penetration to yet achieve, volatility will remain very high for some time as adoption of them continues. This is an historically observable kind of price action seen with any new asset introduced to a marketplace.

Most merchants that accept crypto do so via payment processors that allow them to accept crypto for goods/services, but avoid volatility risk. So if you accept Bitcoin for computer parts for instance, the payment processor simply converts Bitcoin into dollars/Euros/Yuan or what have you and deposits those to your bank account by selling the cryptos on exchange markets for you. Some people seem to think that this suppresses price of cryptos and I can see why they think that, but it's very short sighted. I'll forego diving into the rabbit hole that is monetary theory and money velocity here for now, but suffice it to say, more merchants accepting crypto adds relevance and utility to crypto monies in the broader marketplace.

As this becomes more and more ubiquitous a practice, cryptocurrencies will be more and more exchangeable for value items along the entire supply chain. So, it starts with you buying coffee with Ethereum let's say, and then it continues once the shipper that ships coffee beans starts accepting crypto, and then one day the coffee bean grower accepts crypto, and then one day the maker of plastic and paper cups starts accepting crypto payments and so on. Eventually, the entire supply chain may see complete adoption of crypto payments and should this happen, payment processors may be seen as an added cost of doing business better done away with. This will be compared to crypto volatility though.

So basically the question is, as we see greater adoption of cryptos along common supply chains, how does that correlate with more general ubiquitousness? I think it's highly likely to have a strong correlation because I don't see any highly targeted adoption of crypto among specific supply chains. It seems to me that supply chains relevant to oranges are probably just as likely to broadly adopt cryptocurrencies as are supply chains relevant to yoga pants. If I'm correct in that, then the question of price volatility is a question of common adoption via payment processors over time, and how those payment processors begin to lose market relevance as ubiquitousness negatively correlates with price volatility in crypto.

The only thing that will (and does) slow this down is government regulation of fiat on/off ramps onto crypto. The less efficient those are, the longer adoption takes but it ultimately still continues over time.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 25, 2018, 03:24:14 PM
Why does it take so many words to convince one about using Bitcoin while it takes none to convince one about using the Dollar? Why does means of payment allegedly so advantageous need hordes of the so-called "evangelists"?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 25, 2018, 04:11:29 PM
Why does it take so many words to convince one about using Bitcoin while it takes none to convince one about using the Dollar? Why does means of payment allegedly so advantageous need hordes of the so-called "evangelists"?

I'm just talking about something that interests me. I'm sorry that I'm using too many words for you.

That said, you're comparing a system that requires completely voluntarily formed relationships to be used to a system that literally has an army and police officers that force people to use their thing. So...yeah...not sure where you're going with that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on February 25, 2018, 05:23:43 PM
Most Bitcoins belong to only a handful of anonymous individuals. I'd rather have army and police behind my means of payment.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on February 25, 2018, 05:39:24 PM

canadian,

you sure amaze me how much you know about this coin evolution.

this must be based on major reading up on it.

my hats of to ya................
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 25, 2018, 08:07:47 PM

canadian,

you sure amaze me how much you know about this coin evolution.

this must be based on major reading up on it.

my hats of to ya................

Although I have been challenging Psycho from the very start of every turn and twist in this thread,  I too am impressed by his depth of knowledge: In a way, it confirms to me that despite the many challenges life has offered him from the earliest, he has overcome such obstacles and done something substantial with his life. As a lifelong teacher and proud Canadian, I take pride to call him a friend despite our earliest vexations in this forum.

Kudos to you, Canadian. ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 25, 2018, 10:41:11 PM

canadian,

you sure amaze me how much you know about this coin evolution.

this must be based on major reading up on it.

my hats of to ya................

It's been several years of reading and applying my previously acquired knowledge of economics and monetary theory to the topic of cryptocurrencies. There's a typically steep learning curve to these types of things but I think that applies to currencies we're very familiar with already as well.

Take for instance the publication by the Chicago Federal Reserve bank entitled "Modern money Mechanics" which explains the basics of how money works in the federal reserve banking system. It is a "booklet" some 50 pages long which provides a relatively cursory overview of how the monetary system functioned in the mid 90's. Even a cursory look at more than just the surface of money reveals a very complex topic that takes some time to understand.

This by the way further reveals the comically absurd nature of Pipbuster's statement back there about how it takes so many words to convince people to use Bitcoin. Obviously he's not looked at the ink spilled over monetary theory as applied to modern money. Lots of words there too. It's a heady topic that is perhaps just not within his reach.

Most Bitcoins belong to only a handful of anonymous individuals. I'd rather have army and police behind my means of payment.

And so you're free to use whatever system you desire. Isn't freedom great? I prefer my money to be backed by a marketplace rather than violence. to each their own.

As for your flawed assertion that Bitcoin is held only by a handful of anonymous individuals, this is an assumption sprung from a flawed analysis. It wasn't until recently that we started getting a little smarter about how we analyse Bitcoin holdings. For instance, it used to be common practice to look at a cryptocurrency exchange's wallet address and count that as a concentration of Bitcoin as though it were a single user or just flat out disregard it in calculations. In truth, that cryptocurrency belongs contractually the exchange's users who have accounts there with stored cryptocurrency.

So while we might have once looked at the Bitfinex wallet (address: 3D2oetdNuZUqQHPJmcMDDHYoqkyNVsFk9r presently holds roughly $1.5 Billion USD worth of Bitcoin) as being a single holder in crypto cllocation analysis or as being a null figure, we now know it's better to consider that as being an unknown distribution among it's more than 1.6 million users (last publicly stated figure available 2 months ago) of the exchange.

In short, there's no way to fully account for how many people are actually using the Bitcoin network or other networks because while these blockchains do not actually bestow anonymity as you've indicated, they do bestow users with privacy. Sophisticated forensic accounting is required to find out more about how people are using blockchains and is a certain inevitability.

edit: Which isn't to say that Bitcoin wealth isn't concentrated. I believe it is, but cryptocurrency wealth is more distributed than global fiat denominated wealth. The wealthiest 1% of the world's population owns just over 50% of the wealth after all (as of 2017 statistics provided by Credit Suisse) and when it comes to crypto, the wealthiest 1% are estimated to hold between 30 and 40 percent of Bitcoin. Detailed analysis has not to my knowledge been done on other cryptocurrencies.

As a lifelong teacher and proud Canadian, I take pride to call him a friend despite our earliest vexations in this forum.

Kudos to you, Canadian. ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader



Many thanks, though we are not friends. I wish you all the best however and am thankful for your contributions to this forum. I may not always agree with your assessment of certain things, but you provide thoughtful content for all of us here.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on February 26, 2018, 06:25:55 AM
OK and thanks for the education.

But what happens in the longer term to tax collection if we all move to cryptos and blockchain? A society without a tax income (whether personal or transaction-based) will have no funds for public services. Can crypto payments and receipts be declared and audited for income tax and appropriate financial transactions?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 26, 2018, 07:34:16 AM
OK and thanks for the education.

But what happens in the longer term to tax collection if we all move to cryptos and blockchain? A society without a tax income (whether personal or transaction-based) will have no funds for public services. Can crypto payments and receipts be declared and audited for income tax and appropriate financial transactions?

This will be a challenge for nation states to consider. For my own part, I could care less if a state finds it more difficult to collect taxes. I see that as a benefit, but that's my own ideological leaning. Essentially, it will be up to governments to determine how best to track and tax wealth from their respective citizenry and blockchains stand to make that exceedingly difficult. At the very least, I think that if governments lose their control over credit markets, they will be far less able to extract taxes for frivolous expenses like war machines as people, if given the choice, would be far less likely to surrender tax dollars to cost inefficient systems that allocate wealth in such a wasteful manner.

Ideology aside, I guess the neutral answer to this is that governments are going to face a challenge in the future in trying to figure out how to extract wealth from a monetary system that is largely outside of their control. This contrasts a system that is largely within their control currently. A tax authority might have to wonder how they can credibly extract taxes from a system which is highly resistant to AML/KYC regulations, where accounts cannot be frozen, and where people can easily hide assets should they so desire without requiring the use of things like offshore corporations and the like.

I don't have an easy answer for you. All I can tell you is that in my own view, I find the spectre of this challenge to be a highly desirable spectre indeed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on February 26, 2018, 08:01:19 AM
OK and thanks for the education.

But what happens in the longer term to tax collection if we all move to cryptos and blockchain? A society without a tax income (whether personal or transaction-based) will have no funds for public services. Can crypto payments and receipts be declared and audited for income tax and appropriate financial transactions?

This will be a challenge for nation states to consider. For my own part, I could care less if a state finds it more difficult to collect taxes. I see that as a benefit, but that's my own ideological leaning. Essentially, it will be up to governments to determine how best to track and tax wealth from their respective citizenry and blockchains stand to make that exceedingly difficult. At the very least, I think that if governments lose their control over credit markets, they will be far less able to extract taxes for frivolous expenses like war machines as people, if given the choice, would be far less likely to surrender tax dollars to cost inefficient systems that allocate wealth in such a wasteful manner.

Ideology aside, I guess the neutral answer to this is that governments are going to face a challenge in the future in trying to figure out how to extract wealth from a monetary system that is largely outside of their control. This contrasts a system that is largely within their control currently. A tax authority might have to wonder how they can credibly extract taxes from a system which is highly resistant to AML/KYC regulations, where accounts cannot be frozen, and where people can easily hide assets should they so desire without requiring the use of things like offshore corporations and the like.

I don't have an easy answer for you. All I can tell you is that in my own view, I find the spectre of this challenge to be a highly desirable spectre indeed.

I guess that Venezuela is embarking on that journey - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petro_(cryptocurrency)

Having experienced the "joys" of public/private partnerships for financing essential infrastructure in Australia, and seeing the private partner subsequently gouging users for the privilege of using said infrastructure upon completion, I am not sure that the private sector will not be far more "wealth extracting" from private citizens than the government counterparts do currently. I guess I do believe in the common good and a civilized and governed society. Democracy, with all its shortcomings, trumps anarchy (absence of governance and enforcement). But that is just my view.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on February 26, 2018, 08:14:48 AM
Indeed yes, ideological views are our own beasts to wrestle with. I find the analysis of economic incentives relative to these things a lot more interesting to talk about.

Venezuela is embarking on an interesting plan that shows just how badly a government can misrepresent what a cryptocurrency is at all. It'd make me chuckle if it wasn't something that overshadowed such a wrecked economy. The Petro is supposed to be backed by oil, each petro being worth a barrel of oil if memory serves. Unfortunately, they are counting oil that's still in the ground which is an odd way to structure a commodity backed currency. As well, Petro redemption is done in Bolivares which are a worthless hyper-inflated currency, so again...not sure what the point of the Petro is in this case.

Really, all I see from the Petro is a scam ICO from an organization that has no idea how a cryptocurrency works. It contrasts strongly against much more credible cryptocurrency projects that more credible central governments have flirted with like Canada did about four or five years back. Ultimately they typically seem to conclude that a country specific cryptocurrency doesn't really work because we already basically have those. They're central bank currencies.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Juno on March 02, 2018, 10:53:30 PM
One of my friends reassured me that forex is outdated and I need to open an account in bitcoins. After the last month's events, he sold all his bitcoins and switched to the forex trading :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 02, 2018, 11:04:13 PM
One of my friends reassured me that forex is outdated and I need to open an account in bitcoins. After the last month's events, he sold all his bitcoins and switched to the forex trading :)

Smart move; the other thing he could have done if he has the know-how is to produce his own cryptocurrencies:

It's an open field. Most currencies are created on some political jurisdiction (Country), with cryptocurrencies, anyone who has the know-how can do so. I have lost count how many have been produced since Bitcoin but I am sure there are hundred "basement" programmers at work, ready to flood the market. In a year or so, cryptocurrencies will be collector's items, perhaps each with its own name, like Trumpcoin, Putincoin, Xi-Coin etc. Monopoly will now be changed to Cryptopoly. Lol  ;)

Here comes the response from my "nonfriend"....  :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 02, 2018, 11:17:57 PM
Yup, my response being that Juno's friend sold an asset that's up over 750% year to date due to short term price volatility. Call that smart if you like but it sounds like he was just another irrational market participant making brash decisions with short term vision. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

As much as I like crypto, I wouldn't likely denominate a trading account in any crypto just yet. It's far too volatile for that. The market isn't even close to mature and while I agree, it will replace forex at some point, we're almost certainly years and years away from that. Probably decades. Blockchains first have to scale to a point where they can support millions of transactions per second and there have to be multiple blockchain systems doing that. I mean, that's where we're going but we're not there yet. not by a long shot.

I don't know that making your own cryptocurrency is a good idea unless you have a unique value proposition for the marketplace. Most of the cryptos you mention HT are worthless. Yes, there are hundreds (about 1,500 if memory serves) cryptocurrencies out there, but only about 10% of those present market capitalizations of more than 100 Million USD and of those, many aren't easily tradable and have next to no liquidity. Most cryptocurrencies will fail and go to zero over time. Running a new one as a pump and dump scheme may net some short term profits for a programmer, but that's more likely to net some longer term jail time in many cases. Non-bitcoin cryptos that are successful like Ethereum, EOS, SALT, WAVES and so on present specifically interesting qualities to the marketplace which is why they attract entire teams of developers to work on them. They are multi-billion dollar projects that are not approach in such a cavalier fashion as to be compared to monopoly bucks.

Crypto currencies that are worthless won't be collector's items. They'll just be worthless and unused. Understanding why is part of understanding why these things are valuable in the first place. It's incumbent upon people like those who post in this forum to understand that kind of thing should they wish to be able to adapt to changing global markets.

But then...the internet was supposed to be no more important to humanity than the fax machine according to some prominent economists. Took them a while to understand what makes for disruptive technology too. ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 03, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
Yup, my response being that Juno's friend sold an asset that's up over 750% year to date due to short term price volatility. Call that smart if you like but it sounds like he was just another irrational market participant making brash decisions with short term vision. He wasn't the first, and he won't be the last.

As much as I like crypto, I wouldn't likely denominate a trading account in any crypto just yet. It's far too volatile for that. The market isn't even close to mature and while I agree, it will replace forex at some point, we're almost certainly years and years away from that. Probably decades. Blockchains first have to scale to a point where they can support millions of transactions per second and there have to be multiple blockchain systems doing that. I mean, that's where we're going but we're not there yet. not by a long shot.

I don't know that making your own cryptocurrency is a good idea unless you have a unique value proposition for the marketplace. Most of the cryptos you mention HT are worthless. Yes, there are hundreds (about 1,500 if memory serves) cryptocurrencies out there, but only about 10% of those present market capitalizations of more than 100 Million USD and of those, many aren't easily tradable and have next to no liquidity. Most cryptocurrencies will fail and go to zero over time. Running a new one as a pump and dump scheme may net some short term profits for a programmer, but that's more likely to net some longer term jail time in many cases. Non-bitcoin cryptos that are successful like Ethereum, EOS, SALT, WAVES and so on present specifically interesting qualities to the marketplace which is why they attract entire teams of developers to work on them. They are multi-billion dollar projects that are not approach in such a cavalier fashion as to be compared to monopoly bucks.

Crypto currencies that are worthless won't be collector's items. They'll just be worthless and unused. Understanding why is part of understanding why these things are valuable in the first place. It's incumbent upon people like those who post in this forum to understand that kind of thing should they wish to be able to adapt to changing global markets.

But then...the internet was supposed to be no more important to humanity than the fax machine according to some prominent economists. Took them a while to understand what makes for disruptive technology too. ;)

Hello, non-friend, Psycho.

It all boils down to "perceived value": Long ago, I watched a movie in which a newspaper vendor in NY, would store his goods in an underground manhole. As he graced the earthen walls, this huge piece of rough glass fell to the ground. Not knowing what it was, he used it as a wait on his outdoor papers so that the wind would not blow them away. Turned out that this was the largest diamond ever found in N.A.: He died a poor man. "Diamond in the rough"?

So long as there is a "perceived value", "some", cryptocurrencies will have some value, "but" as they multiply in number, their perceived value will diminish. Yes, given that Bitcoin has a limited production formula, but then so do the other hundreds of competitors and the hackers, "maids-in-waiting", to diminish value further.   ;)
Time will tell.

One thing I have noticed over the time, you have been posting on this thread and this may be a subtle observation, but have you gotten rid off your cryptocurrencies? Being a "visionary" as you claim to be, you should have bought Apple, it too would be up 700% or so by now.

In fact, I think by now we have exhausted the Bitcoin thread. Perhaps as a "non-friend", you might want to initiate a thread entitled, "Disruptive technologies" where we can all add our two cents.

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 03, 2018, 05:53:07 PM
So long as there is a "perceived value", "some", cryptocurrencies will have some value, "but" as they multiply in number, their perceived value will diminish. Yes, given that Bitcoin has a limited production formula, but then so do the other hundreds of competitors and the hackers, "maids-in-waiting", to diminish value further.   ;)
Time will tell.

Well, not not quite. It's not that simple. This would be true if the market were likely to perceive cryptocurrencies as all equal to one another and if cryptocurrencies had reached a point where their growth potential is limited. Not only is this second condition not met, but the first condition is basically impossible. Currencies are given value in part by what's referred to as a network effect. The more they are used day to day, the more valued they will be (considering only this one metric and all else being equal) because the more exchangeable they will be. Think of how Discover Card is less desired by credit card users because it's accepted by fewer establishments. Discover opts to show value with excellent rewards systems and high merchant fees so its value proposition is different than a generic VISA which is just cheaper and more common.

In the case of cryptocurrencies, over time most cryptocurrencies that present only as a currency will die off and a few will be favoured by the marketplace. Their value propositions will likely differ slightly perhaps in technical respect or in how resources are allocated, but pure currencies will be limited in number because long term, a network effect is required to maintain sustainability. The marketplace will ultimately choose the "best" cryptocurrencies for ubiquitous use and push value into those systems. The rest will become worthless or uncommon and of low value.

One thing I have noticed over the time, you have been posting on this thread and this may be a subtle observation, but have you gotten rid off your cryptocurrencies? Being a "visionary" as you claim to be, you should have bought Apple, it too would be up 700% or so by now.

Over The past 365 days, APPL is not up over 750%. Looks like it's up about 26%.

Also, I mistakenly said "year to date" when I meant to reference the past 365 days in my last post.

I don't claim to be a visionary. I claim to be educated in economic theory and monetary theory. Why on earth would you say that I claim to be a visionary? Because I think I'm ahead of the curve compared to you? As for whether or not I've gotten rid of my cryptocurrencies, I don't comment publicly on my crypto holdings but I'll say this much. No. I certainly have not gotten rid of my cryptocurrencies. Again, no idea why you'd think that. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

In fact, I think by now we have exhausted the Bitcoin thread.

I think this thread is fine. If you'd like to start a new thread, you have the capability to do so.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 03, 2018, 08:14:37 PM
So long as there is a "perceived value", "some", cryptocurrencies will have some value, "but" as they multiply in number, their perceived value will diminish. Yes, given that Bitcoin has a limited production formula, but then so do the other hundreds of competitors and the hackers, "maids-in-waiting", to diminish value further.   ;)
Time will tell.

Well, not not quite. It's not that simple. This would be true if the market were likely to perceive cryptocurrencies as all equal to one another and if cryptocurrencies had reached a point where their growth potential is limited. Not only is this second condition not met, but the first condition is basically impossible. Currencies are given value in part by what's referred to as a network effect. The more they are used day to day, the more valued they will be (considering only this one metric and all else being equal) because the more exchangeable they will be. Think of how Discover Card is less desired by credit card users because it's accepted by fewer establishments. Discover opts to show value with excellent rewards systems and high merchant fees so its value proposition is different than a generic VISA which is just cheaper and more common.

In the case of cryptocurrencies, over time most cryptocurrencies that present only as a currency will die off and a few will be favoured by the marketplace. Their value propositions will likely differ slightly perhaps in technical respect or in how resources are allocated, but pure currencies will be limited in number because long term, a network effect is required to maintain sustainability. The marketplace will ultimately choose the "best" cryptocurrencies for ubiquitous use and push value into those systems. The rest will become worthless or uncommon and of low value.

One thing I have noticed over the time, you have been posting on this thread and this may be a subtle observation, but have you gotten rid off your cryptocurrencies? Being a "visionary" as you claim to be, you should have bought Apple, it too would be up 700% or so by now.

Over The past 365 days, APPL is not up over 750%. Looks like it's up about 26%.

Also, I mistakenly said "year to date" when I meant to reference the past 365 days in my last post.

I don't claim to be a visionary. I claim to be educated in economic theory and monetary theory. Why on earth would you say that I claim to be a visionary? Because I think I'm ahead of the curve compared to you? As for whether or not I've gotten rid of my cryptocurrencies, I don't comment publicly on my crypto holdings but I'll say this much. No. I certainly have not gotten rid of my cryptocurrencies. Again, no idea why you'd think that. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

In fact, I think by now we have exhausted the Bitcoin thread.

I think this thread is fine. If you'd like to start a new thread, you have the capability to do so.


I don't think Apple came about and gained 700% in one year but over its lifetime of more than 40 years or so. As an economic and monetary educated advisor,  where would you put your 100$, on bitcoin crap shoot and make 700% in one year or Apple and make a steady,  "weather proof", 29000% in 40 years, which is about 700%/year?


I think wealth is a mater of luck and not skill, so in a way, we are both right and wrong at the same time; except if you have connections to Trump :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on March 03, 2018, 08:33:29 PM
One of my friends reassured me that forex is outdated and I need to open an account in bitcoins. After the last month's events, he sold all his bitcoins and switched to the forex trading :)

Yeah its transitory passion. Bubble tends to be appealing only when it inflates after a burst it will take a lot of time to lure traders again.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 03, 2018, 09:00:35 PM
I don't think Apple came about and gained 700% in one year but over its lifetime of more than 40 years or so.

APPL had an IPO price of $22 in 1980. Now 38 years later, APPL trades at $176. Stock splits included, (one of them being a massive 7:1) that's indeed about 29,000% over 38 years. Very fine investment. I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

As an economic and monetary educated advisor,  where would you put your 100$, on bitcoin crap shoot and make 700% in one year or Apple and make a steady,  "weather proof", 29000% in 40 years, which is about 700%/year?

I'm not an advisor. Stop applying these silly labels to me. I'm just someone with an interest in something and happy to talk about it. The reason I put my money into Bitcoin is not because it was a "crapshoot" as you say here, but specifically because it aligned very well with what I have learned about economics and monetary theory. You seem to think that someone like me just gambled and in a sense, any investment is a "gamble" but my investment in Bitcoin and related cryptos is just the same as an investment in a mining exploration company. The facts were researched, the market potential was researched, the economic and monetary theory relative to the instrument was researched, and then I invested.

You can ignorantly boil that down to luck if you like, but that's not it. As for which I'd prefer...well a 29,000% gain over a third to a half of my lifetime is good but a 75,000% (rough guesstimate here) return over just 6 years certainly seems preferable. I'm not poo pooing Apple by any means but I'm not sure why you think I'd prefer the smaller return unless you think I'm picking this stuff randomly which I'm not.

I think wealth is a mater of luck and not skill, [...]

*chuckle*

No. You are wrong. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity and thus "luck" in investing is simply a question of whether or not you've prepared. I'm very sorry for you that you are so resistant to preparation. What can I do but explain my own motivations and hope you learn from them.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 03, 2018, 09:06:34 PM
I don't think Apple came about and gained 700% in one year but over its lifetime of more than 40 years or so.

APPL had an IPO price of $22 in 1980. Now 38 years later, APPL trades at $176. Stock splits included, (one of them being a massive 7:1) that's indeed about 29,000% over 38 years. Very fine investment. I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

As an economic and monetary educated advisor,  where would you put your 100$, on bitcoin crap shoot and make 700% in one year or Apple and make a steady,  "weather proof", 29000% in 40 years, which is about 700%/year?

I'm not an advisor. Stop applying these silly labels to me. I'm just someone with an interest in something and happy to talk about it. The reason I put my money into Bitcoin is not because it was a "crapshoot" as you say here, but specifically because it aligned very well with what I have learned about economics and monetary theory. You seem to think that someone like me just gambled and in a sense, any investment is a "gamble" but my investment in Bitcoin and related cryptos is just the same as an investment in a mining exploration company. The facts were researched, the market potential was researched, the economic and monetary theory relative to the instrument was researched, and then I invested.

You can ignorantly boil that down to luck if you like, but that's not it. As for which I'd prefer...well a 29,000% gain over a third to a half of my lifetime is good but a 75,000% (rough guesstimate here) return over just 6 years certainly seems preferable. I'm not poo pooing Apple by any means but I'm not sure why you think I'd prefer the smaller return unless you think I'm picking this stuff randomly which I'm not.

I think wealth is a mater of luck and not skill, [...]

*chuckle*

No. You are wrong. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity and thus "luck" in investing is simply a question of whether or not you've prepared. I'm very sorry for you that you are so resistant to preparation. What can I do but explain my own motivations and hope you learn from them.


What can I do to make you understand that I am "always", prepared to teach you a lesson?  Lol

http://theconversation.com/getting-rich-is-largely-about-luck-shame-the-wealthy-dont-want-to-hear-it-77111

Regards,

HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 03, 2018, 09:12:26 PM
The author's assertion that most wealth is expropriated shows off his ignorance of how wealth is indeed created. Sorry, you've taught me nothing with that childish nonsense.

I can't say I'm surprised that a prof' of geography wrote such Keynesian idiocy. What next. Are you going to refer me to an auto mechanic to teach me about the finer points of baking?

Let's keep the thread on topic.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 03, 2018, 09:50:54 PM
The author's assertion that most wealth is expropriated shows off his ignorance of how wealth is indeed created. Sorry, you've taught me nothing with that childish nonsense.

I can't say I'm surprised that a prof' of geography wrote such Keynesian idiocy. What next. Are you going to refer me to an auto mechanic to teach me about the finer points of baking?

Let's keep the thread on topic.

Time for me to retire to greater study, I can't spend much more time watching over kindergarten "for now" but as a natural and professionally certified teacher and because I do love children and educating them as much, I will be back. ;)

I assume you did watch the video by Michael Lewis,( in the link I posted ), one of the most successful people ever to write about the financial industry and I guess you claim to know better than he?

Lesson 101, is now over.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 03, 2018, 10:53:50 PM
Well according to you he's just lucky and not talented, so I guess I'm not sure. You seem to be telling me that I might well know better than him...and I'd agree. I might. I have met many people far wealthier than me that have learned from me and I from them. Intelligence/wisdom is not an isolated indicator of wealth and success; it's just one of many helpful components.

In the broader context, people are luckier than others in attaining wealth. Being born in North America for instance is like winning a lottery to begin with. Someone born into wealth is more likely to "get rich" in a relative sense than someone who is not. In that sense, wealth is down to luck in many respects. The rest however about how wealth is expropriated and the wealth gap is somehow linked to that is liberal guilt. Just nonsense that means nothing.

Again though, this has nothing to do with the thread. Please return to the topic. I'll be deleting further posts that travel along this silly diversion. As an experienced educator, I'm sure you're familiar with instruction and why following it is so valuable. So as the headmaster in this case, I'm telling you to stop disrupting the class and keep to the subject matter.

K?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 03, 2018, 11:00:37 PM
Well according to you he's just lucky and not talented, so I guess I'm not sure. You seem to be telling me that I might well know better than him...and I'd agree. I might. I have met many people far wealthier than me that have learned from me and I from them. Intelligence/wisdom is not an isolated indicator of wealth and success; it's just one of many helpful components.

In the broader context, people are luckier than others in attaining wealth. Being born in North America for instance is like winning a lottery to begin with. Someone born into wealth is more likely to "get rich" in a relative sense than someone who is not. In that sense, wealth is down to luck in many respects. The rest however about how wealth is expropriated and the wealth gap is somehow linked to that is liberal guilt. Just nonsense that means nothing.

Again though, this has nothing to do with the thread. Please return to the topic. I'll be deleting further posts that travel along this silly diversion. As an experienced educator, I'm sure you're familiar with instruction and why following it is so valuable. So as the headmaster in this case, I'm telling you to stop disrupting the class and keep to the subject matter.

K?

With a threat waining over my head, as always, when you are losing out in a discussion, I agree: I thought you would instead call on MammaD for help but that would be when the kitchen heat is too hot in the pm section.

Enjoy, the day. If you would only stop trying to have the last word, there would be no need to continue.  But you won't, your ego is at stake.  ;)

Tat, tat...

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 03, 2018, 11:02:49 PM
Not at all. You're hijacking a thread about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies to talk about how wealth is generated. if you'd like to start a new thread about that topic, you're more than free to do so. You can even address me specifically if you so desire.

Stop being childish bud.

End of discussion. Sorry if you think that's a "threat".
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on March 04, 2018, 01:21:50 AM
So getting back to trading cryptos...

I used to be a fan of Elliot Wave analysis a few years ago until EWI got it horribly wrong in 2011 for the DJ by calling it the top of some super duper cycle at that time. How wrong they were.
EW theory is based on social mood and my belief is that the advent of algo trading and the like has upset the apple cart for traditional asset classes.
But with cryptos, EW analysis may have a new life for a while?

So Wave 1 up is when something new first catches attention. Follow by a Wave 2 down on initial scepticism. Then euphoria steps in as the new product is heavily spruiked and so we have a huge Wave 3 up. Followed by a Wave 4 down as smart profit takers exit the market at least temporarily. And then a Wave 5 up as people buy the dip... Before the start of a new sequence, either up or down.

Here is EWI's take on Ethereum http://www.elliottwave.com/en/ElliottWaveTV/Episodes/2018/03/02/16/13/Ethereum-3-Waves-Down-Screamed-Opportunity?sc_camp=D7DE0167E8A7426BB3E2B8780D75B854

Any Elliot Wavers who have a view on this - on the use of EW analysis for cryptos because it is a new asset class for which social mood may be playing an important role?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 01:46:10 AM
I've seen some incredible use of EW and wedge/triangles for day trading cryptos. It seems like the market is so immature and susceptible to hype/panic cycles that this type of trading can reap great rewards in these markets for a while. It's not my area of expertise and I don't day trade cryptos, but I think it's definitely worth looking into for those who are interested in that style of trading.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 04, 2018, 08:15:00 PM
Hello, "non friend" Psycho. I am back for the next lesson:

About two weeks ago, I posted that Quebec,  Canada and Iceland, were becoming the mining centers for Bitcoin because of their cheap electric power and cold temperature needed to drive the servers which goble up hydro while producing a lot of "useless" hot air pollution, a destruction our environment.

Today, I am happy to announce, that having made this destructive and wastful enterprice known to our "legal authority",  our Government, has taken action: It is not to say that blockchain technology does not have a sizable technological value, I have always supported this, but the wasteful and destructive activity to produce digitized tokens which only go to enrich speculators,  crooks and tax evaders,  will be nipped at the bud by restrictions,  one of them being an energy source controled by legitimate authorities, funded by taxpayers which, Psycho,  is known to despise.

End of lesson, 102. ;)


Regards,
HumbleTrader




Quebec Throws Cold Water on Bitcoin Miners Seeking Cheap Power https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/quebec-throws-cold-water-on-bitcoin-miners-seeking-cheap-power

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 09:42:41 PM
Did I assert that Quebec would pave the way for crypto miners? What was I supposed to learn here? Were your lesson plans for your students this bad when you were a teacher?

So far as i'm concerned, the market should be able to rationally price resources and if the power utility doesn't want to sell its power to a certain type of business, I've no problem with that. I think the marketplace is more functional with a free market of power utility operators to choose from rather than the gov't muddled mess we have today, but I don't see what the shocker here is.

If I were paying tuition for this, I'd be demanding a refund.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 04, 2018, 09:51:22 PM
Did I assert that Quebec would pave the way for crypto miners? What was I supposed to learn here? Were your lesson plans for your students this bad when you were a teacher?

So far as i'm concerned, the market should be able to rationally price resources and if the power utility doesn't want to sell its power to a certain type of business, I've no problem with that. I think the marketplace is more functional with a free market of power utility operators to choose from rather than the gov't muddled mess we have today, but I don't see what the shocker here is.

If I were paying tuition for this, I'd be demanding a refund.

"Straight and rational" talk may be confusing to your psychology. It is consistent with your other hypocritical "twicks" where you claim to be against organized governmental authorities, yet set up workshops to train security officers to do the opposite; you want your cake and eat it too. What are we to learn from your unstable motives and claims? You mean people actually pay to listen to your BS?

Reply #255 on: February 24, 2018, 10:51:15 PM », you said:

"I've talked to rooms full of border security officers explaining to them for instance why simple money transmission rules simply don't apply to digital currencies."



Tidly do.. tidly do, just for you!  :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: nwboater on March 04, 2018, 10:09:42 PM
I have a request for CanadianPsycho and Humble Trader.

Please stop the bickering and egging each other on. You both have a lot to contribute to this Forum and I enjoy reading most of your posts - when they aren't attacking each other.

Thanks very much for considering this.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 10:17:39 PM
Sounds like a good suggestion to me nwboater.

For clarification here, I have explained to border security officers that decentralized/distributed blockchains do not exist in any one geographical location, so it presents a challenge for regulators in that the rules they have written in regard to money transmission dont seem to technically apply. It's actually a really cool part of how blockchains change digital ledgering systems.

So like when someone crosses a border owning $10,000 or more in Bitcoin, they aren't actually crossing the border with that value and arguably don't have any legal obligation to declare it because it simply exists globally and that's different from carrying cash. I've been asked to talk about this kind of thing because regulatory bodies are trying to figure out how these technologies work. They do understand that they can't advise their officers what to do in certain situations if their officers don't understand how this technology works at a high level view.

I didn't set up those workshops by the way. I don't corrall gov't employees at my leasure into rooms to be chatted to. I've been asked by 3rd parties contracted to consult governments to explain some basic blockchain concepts. Nothing terribly special.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 04, 2018, 10:29:34 PM
I have a request for CanadianPsycho and Humble Trader.

Please stop the bickering and egging each other on. You both have a lot to contribute to this Forum and I enjoy reading most of your posts - when they aren't attacking each other.

Thanks very much for considering this.

Cheers,
Rod

Thanks Rod.

If you go back to any series of posts, you will note two things;

1) Psycho always initiates agressive behaviour with his put downs. 

2) Even when I ask that we terminate an inflamed discussion,  he insists to have the last strike with a mud sling to satisfy his dependancy.

Thanks again for your sound intervention, now to Psycho ' s dependancy. 

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 10:31:38 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 10:52:12 PM
Just came across this video featuring one of my favourite Chicago school economists, Milton Friedman. He described at the time (looks like this was 1992/1993) the internet as probably the greatest cause in the future for the displacement of government services.

He said that it was missing one ingredient though. That there's one thing it needed. A secret sauce sort of thing that'd complete the formula he saw in front of him. Anyone wanna guess what that might be?  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/702524759940840/videos/744563712403611/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 04, 2018, 11:48:14 PM
Just came across this video featuring one of my favourite Chicago school economists, Milton Friedman. He described at the time (looks like this was 1992/1993) the internet as probably the greatest cause in the future for the displacement of government services.

He said that it was missing one ingredient though. That there's one thing it needed. A secret sauce sort of thing that'd complete the formula he saw in front of him. Anyone wanna guess what that might be?  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/702524759940840/videos/744563712403611/

 Milton Friedman also said:

Unfortunately, that would create new problems, he said, because such a currency would have “a negative side.”

“The gangsters,” he said, “the people who are engaging in illegal transactions, will also have an easier way to carry on their business.”

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 04, 2018, 11:55:08 PM
Yup, criminals use money. This is true.

Some people believe that if we just make money harder to use for everybody, criminals will have a tougher time of it. I tend to not believe that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 05, 2018, 12:26:29 AM
Yup, criminals use money. This is true.

Some people believe that if we just make money harder to use for everybody, criminals will have a tougher time of it. I tend to not believe that.

One of the reasons civil society has chosen to live under the rule of law, despite some of its inefficiencies is to protect its citizenry from such opportunists and evildoers, who choose to live outside its norms and to exploit others. It will therefore never allow lawlessness to evade these norms, including those trying to escape their responsibility of paying their fair share of taxes, although they choose to live under the norms of the jungle.

Regards, 8)
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on March 05, 2018, 01:32:26 AM
Bitcoins in Australia are regarded as assets subject to CGT. The regulation is coming.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bitcoin-australia-tax-office-investigation2018-1-2018-1

In a more recent report, crypto exchanges in Oz are welcoming this move as regulation will bring legitimacy to their industry.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 05, 2018, 01:46:02 AM
Bitcoins in Australia are regarded as assets subject to CGT. The regulation is coming.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bitcoin-australia-tax-office-investigation2018-1-2018-1

In a more recent report, crypto exchanges in Oz are welcoming this move as regulation will bring legitimacy to their industry.

Despite what the "know it alls" claim, I have maintained that in order to acquire Bitcoins or any other cryptocurrency, there must be a physical space where you exchange "real money" with the cryptos, at that juncture, authorities will be able to identify users and bring this under the "legitimate" control. I think this is where cryptos will lose out. The second layer of authentication/verification will come with specific filters placed on the internet systems, imposed by governments, to identify such transactions, although the "know it alls", claim this to be impossible. Time will tell.

Regards,
HumbleTraders

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 05, 2018, 05:55:47 AM
Well it's just a question of technical function. A physical location is not technically required for that kind of transaction where someone exchanges gov't issued fiat for cryptocurrency. It has to take place in the physical realm inasmuch as physical cash and people exist physically, but it can happen in the middle of a public park if the buyer and seller wish it to.

The need for the physical is greatest right now when the crypto economy is growing out of its infancy and people need to acquire and get rid of crypto. Centralized exchange services and payment processing services are required for the most efficient growth as these are the services that make the most common systems we use today operate. Arguably you could say that they're not actually "required" but certainly growth would at the very least be much less speedy than it is now because it would simply be harder for people to acquire and get rid of crypto. However, where this gets interesting is that the more common the use of crypto becomes, the less required those financial services companies (exchanges and payment processors) become.

I explained this earlier when I was talking about the coffee shop and its supply chain. The more often crypto is used as a medium of exchange, the less required centralized financial services will be to facilitate value exchanges between crypto and fiat. Centralized financial services are the choke point where crypto users meet regulators and regulators are asking themselves right now, what do they do if people are not engaging in crypto <-> fiat transactions, but what if they're engaging in crypto <-> crypto transactions? Regulators right now have the capacity to regulate centralized financial services, but there are no AML/KYC rules/regulations that can be imposed on a blockchain. You can serve ABC Crypto Trading House Inc. with a subpoena or tell it to operate a certain way if it doesn't want to get shut down, but you can't serve simmilar notice to a blockchain.

I can very confidently tell you that no regulator I know of presently has any answers for these questions and it's because of how blockchains work. That's what they're trying to figure out and I'm fairly confident that they won't be able to "figure it out" so much as they'll simply have to change how they do things.

All that said, yes it's simmilar in Canada. Cryptos are regulated much the same way that commodities are for tax purposes. That's a common regulatory approach for tax calculations.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 05, 2018, 06:12:09 AM
Well it's just a question of technical function. A physical location is not technically required for that kind of transaction where someone exchanges gov't issued fiat for cryptocurrency. It has to take place in the physical realm inasmuch as physical cash and people exist physically, but it can happen in the middle of a public park if the buyer and seller wish it to.

The need for the physical is greatest right now when the crypto economy is growing out of its infancy and people need to acquire and get rid of crypto. Centralized exchange services and payment processing services are required for the most efficient growth as these are the services that make the most common systems we use today operate. Arguably you could say that they're not actually "required" but certainly growth would at the very least be much less speedy than it is now because it would simply be harder for people to acquire and get rid of crypto. However, where this gets interesting is that the more common the use of crypto becomes, the less required those financial services companies (exchanges and payment processors) become.

I explained this earlier when I was talking about the coffee shop and its supply chain. The more often crypto is used as a medium of exchange, the less required centralized financial services will be to facilitate value exchanges between crypto and fiat. Centralized financial services are the choke point where crypto users meet regulators and regulators are asking themselves right now, what do they do if people are not engaging in crypto <-> fiat transactions, but what if they're engaging in crypto <-> crypto transactions? Regulators right now have the capacity to regulate centralized financial services, but there are no AML/KYC rules/regulations that can be imposed on a blockchain. You can serve ABC Crypto Trading House Inc. with a subpoena or tell it to operate a certain way if it doesn't want to get shut down, but you can't serve simmilar notice to a blockchain.

I can very confidently tell you that no regulator I know of presently has any answers for these questions and it's because of how blockchains work. That's what they're trying to figure out and I'm fairly confident that they won't be able to "figure it out" so much as they'll simply have to change how they do things.

All that said, yes it's simmilar in Canada. Cryptos are regulated much the same way that commodities are for tax purposes. That's a common regulatory approach for tax calculations.

Yup, you could do the exchange "in the park", isn't that where most narcos exchanges take place; parks are riddled with narcos,  needles and pimps.

The " physical " realm shows that the number of cryptocurrency transactions has more than halved in recent times, a "physical" statistic that the bubly is ready to burst.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 05, 2018, 06:36:15 AM
You're up late too huh?

Yup, Bitcoin transactions are at a multi year low. Bitcoin doesn't make up even half the market anymore though and other cryptocurrencies are increasingly active. Here's a chart that might be helpful in your understanding of this. It's a measure of each crypto currency's share of the crypto exchange marketplace, the most popular ones being represented most prominently.

Bitcoin used to make up north of 90% of this market. Today it's around 40%. This graph shows how it's dropped while other currencies have grown into what Bitcoin's lost in market share.

As for public parks being replete with drug dealers and the like, indeed they can be. Like I said before, criminals use money. I agree with you on that point. I've also bought flowers in a public park, and I've used cash in public spaces to buy many other rather innocuous things. Same with crypto. Point being, there's not a need for a centralized service once the crypto economy grows to a size where it's a common use medium of exchange because people can exchange value without the use of a central service. This is more true for crypto than it is for gov't issued monies.

Anyway, here's that graph.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 07, 2018, 08:00:55 PM
Now you see it,  now you don't; there goes anonymity and the definition of "exchanges":

Bitcoin Dives After SEC Says Crypto Platforms Must Be Registered

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-07/bitcoin-dives-after-sec-says-crypto-platforms-must-be-registered

But there is always,  "the park".  ???

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 07, 2018, 08:53:45 PM
Regulatory pressures will always cause crypto to wobble in the short term. Historical constant, but nothing I'm worried about. This has been some time coming which is why ICO's that I have been happy to offer advice to have proactively started to limit their offerings to accredited investors only. I think you'll see this become the norm quite quickly now.

In the long term though, all of this stands to be disrupted once centralized points of regulatory pressure are eliminated by decentralized systems. It's just a technical progression along a path and this is just one predictable step along it so far as I see it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 07, 2018, 09:20:11 PM
Regulatory pressures will always cause crypto to wobble in the short term. Historical constant, but nothing I'm worried about. This has been some time coming which is why ICO's that I have been happy to offer advice to have proactively started to limit their offerings to accredited investors only. I think you'll see this become the norm quite quickly now.

In the long term though, all of this stands to be disrupted once centralized points of regulatory pressure are eliminated by decentralized systems. It's just a technical progression along a path and this is just one predictable step along it so far as I see it.

And I thought I had the only crystal ball. ::)

Time makes liers stand out. It's good to have written record created here.

Regards,
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 07, 2018, 09:28:43 PM
Er...what am I lying about? If you wish to accuse me of something, accuse me so that I might address it. I don't appreciate being maligned in such a vague manner.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 07, 2018, 10:01:55 PM
Er...what am I lying about? If you wish to accuse me of something, accuse me so that I might address it. I don't appreciate being maligned in such a vague manner.

Dear Psycho, stop being so psychotic. This is a general statement to anyone who makes any claim and will be around "in time" to receive praise or eat it. IT IS NOT DIRECTED "DIRECTLY" AT YOU.  :-\


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 07, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
Ah. Apologies. I thought you were directing some negative sentiment towards me because you had quoted me in your post.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 14, 2018, 05:45:08 PM
Ah. Apologies. I thought you were directing some negative sentiment towards me because you had quoted me in your post.

Carry on.


I guess Facebook didn't know what it was talking about when it banned crypto adds; here is another source of ignorance. Lol.

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Google bans crypto-currency adverts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43398410

Slowly but surely, people are coming to realize what I have been claiming all along: Crypto ' s are for techs, crooks and dreamers.  Blockchain is a welcome, "legitimate", technology which is being incorporated by legitimate authorities as a "transport", medium of exchange.  A medium which has yet to reach full acceptance and maturity and one which might itself be replaced by some more advanced technological advancement.

Regards,  ;)
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on March 14, 2018, 06:13:23 PM
Google and Facebook are 2 companies that are known for doing the right thing every time.  ::)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 14, 2018, 09:59:44 PM
Well HT, cryptocurrencies are an integral part of what what make blockchains function. If you don't have a cryptocurrency attached to a blockchain, then you just have a distributed database and those have been around for decades. Nothing new there and hardly surprising that you don't know enough about how these systems work to properly critique them.

I'm not surprised by Google's move which I first heard of...like last week I think? I'm somewhat disappointed by it, but I think on net that it can be a positive influence on the space in the short term. Google has notably characterized this as a policy that might change to become more or less constrictive in the future. I don't mind it much myself because 1) Google is a private company that can allow/disallow whoever/whatever it likes on its platform in my opinion and 2) the ICO space in particular is still laden with scams or "dubious" investments for people to make and making it harder for those outfits to advertise to people unfamiliar with crypto isn't something I view negatively. It might be an important step in that marketplace becoming more sophisticated. We'll have to wait and see.

As for who crypto is for...well I'll leave it to the market to decide if you're right or wrong. Personally, I think it's for everybody so I suppose you're not entirely wrong. ;)

All in all, I'm glad you're keeping your eyes on crypto news HT. I'll bet you're learning something new here and there. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 14, 2018, 11:11:57 PM
Well HT, cryptocurrencies are an integral part of what what make blockchains function. If you don't have a cryptocurrency attached to a blockchain, then you just have a distributed database and those have been around for decades. Nothing new there and hardly surprising that you don't know enough about how these systems work to properly critique them.

I'm not surprised by Google's move which I first heard of...like last week I think? I'm somewhat disappointed by it, but I think on net that it can be a positive influence on the space in the short term. Google has notably characterized this as a policy that might change to become more or less constrictive in the future. I don't mind it much myself because 1) Google is a private company that can allow/disallow whoever/whatever it likes on its platform in my opinion and 2) the ICO space in particular is still laden with scams or "dubious" investments for people to make and making it harder for those outfits to advertise to people unfamiliar with crypto isn't something I view negatively. It might be an important step in that marketplace becoming more sophisticated. We'll have to wait and see.

As for who crypto is for...well I'll leave it to the market to decide if you're right or wrong. Personally, I think it's for everybody so I suppose you're not entirely wrong. ;)

All in all, I'm glad you're keeping your eyes on crypto news HT. I'll bet you're learning something new here and there. :)

Nothing, new from you Psycho; how you pick and choose what you want to manipulate and put down anyone who does not agree with you. I am not interested in your batter, that is your personal weakness to which we have in most part, come to accept; we all have our weaknesses some more than others. When I took my first university course in economic theory, you had no idea of even a concept of such.

It's interesting how you chose to avoid any mention by the International Money Fund and their view of cryptos. As to my learning about cryptos, I think I know as much if not more than you because I read a variety of financial news every day, one of which is that of cryptos which need a low-level mental capacity to understand.  8)

Regards,
HumbleTrading.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 15, 2018, 12:48:53 AM
Well at least you're not above tossing your own barbs which I'm fine with; though I'm disappointed that you resort both to participating in the barbs and persistently criticising me for use of same. Seems hypocritical to me.

I wasn't aware you wanted to address the IMF and economic theory. If you'd like to be more specific, I'm happy to address those issues which you've just brought up. La Garde has indeed recently spoken ill of cryptocurrencies and negative reports have indeed been produced by global and national regulators around the world for some years now. I don't expect that a technology which stands to completely route around their insidious control structures would be universally welcomed by the bankers. Indeed, they don't much like crypto because they continue to come face to face with the fact that it is very very difficult to control if not impossible. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on March 15, 2018, 01:39:01 AM
Here is a solution.

Keep the barbs for Private Messaging; and stick to the substance for the Posts.

It is a fascinating topic. What do they say in sport - play the ball, or the puck if you are Canadian  :), not the person.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 15, 2018, 03:14:15 AM
Have you ever been to a local hockey game? As the old saying goes, "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out!"

Hahahaha. But yeah sure, I get what you're saying. We'll see how well we can manage that. HT and I are like oil n' water it'd seem. We can only do what we can do.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on March 15, 2018, 03:38:03 AM
I did play broom ball while I was living in Canada in the 70s. Usually under the influence.....

Back to blockchain I found this article of interest
http://www.afr.com/technology/da-hongfei-blockchain-regulation-will-oust-scammers-not-stifle-innovation-20180312-h0xc7c

In particular:
"But, unlike Ethereum's central goal of creating a platform for the development of decentralised apps (dApps) to create a more trustworthy, globally accessible internet, NEO hopes to provide the infrastructure for what it deems the "smart economy".

Mr Da said the smart economy would be characterised by three main features – digitisation (of currency, assets, identities and IoT devices), being programmable (everything digitised can be manipulated and managed via programming languages) and being "trustless" (intermediaries like lawyers or auditors are not needed to establish trust in a transaction).

"A third to a half of the cost of every transaction today is linked to trust between trading partners. We're paying for lawyers, we're paying for auditors, we're paying for government and regulators," he said.

"If we had technology rather than a politician to establish trust, the cost will be much lower."

So a blockchain is a bit more than a distributed database?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 15, 2018, 04:17:58 AM
I'm so addicted to this. I have to be at the airport in 4 hours and some and I'm posting about crypto lol. :)

Not a bit more, much more. What you've honed in on is the integral difference that makes blockchain technology a breakthrough in computer science. Disintermediation of trust agents. I think it was in 2013 or 2014 that when he was drawing up the NY BitLicense, Superintendent Ben Lawsky drew attention to the fact that many of the smaller banks in his state were employing up to three or even four compliance workers for every customer service tasked employee they had on payroll. The cost of regulatory compliance is enormous and regulatory compliance is born in no small part due to the need for the financial system to be trustworthy. Whether that means it's used for moral purposes or whatever we think of those regulatory structures, the bottom line is that they cost a lot.

Nakamoto consensus with the introduction of the Bitcoin blockchain solved a significant problem that these compliance structures were made necessary by and that's a question of how you ensure that digital currency is functionally sound. Aside from human operated and managed systems, there existed (until 2009) no automated method of ensuring that if I sent you 100 digital dollars from my bank that my bank didn't just duplicate the money and counterfeit the money I sent you and keep it for the bank's benefit or something. Our solution to that in the past has been webs of trust which are human controlled and overseen by humans. Banks being kept in check by one another and by regulatory oversight.

Blockchains completely automate that in particular, counterfeit prevention. So see, what we had in webs of trust were distributed databases that were managed by human beings in an effort to ensure the integrity of the financial system and what we have in blockchains are distributed ledgers (databases) that have tokenized incentive systems that create a need for securitizing the networks they operate on. Bitcoin introduced the first version of that which is called Proof of Work. That uses a great deal of computer power to protect the network; more computing power than all of the world's supercomputers presently combined. That's because the Bitcoin network rewards the use of that computer power with Bitcoin tokens so as economic activity coupled with Bitcoin rises, the token becomes more desirable thus incentivising more computing power being applied to the network, thus making the network harder and harder to "out-compute" in the event that someone wanted to attack the network. This incentive system both protects the network, and provides a functional currency that can be used for value transfer thereby supplanting the role of banks in respect to retail banking.

From a purely economic point of view, Bitcoin and other simmilar cryptos that operate on consensus rules achieve a disintermediation of trust agents because crypto has found a way to remain decentralized and still present as a functional money in that it indexes value rationally, it is fungible, (arguably I think there might be some issues with fungibility) it can be transported easily and it is divisible. These are pillars of functional monies. Not just functional currencies, but monies too. Many people don't take time to consider the differences between the two. In any case, a functional money that achieves trustlessness without *human oversight.

We can have a lot of moral arguments about what a trustless and completely accessible money system means, but I think those are challenges for regulators in a changing world. What I really care about is whether or not new systems of monetary exchange and issuance can use technology to reduce friction between transacting parties. Crypto does that extraordinarily well and if it can scale (it hasn't managed this yet and it's what kills it if it can't) then I see it largely if not completely displacing the global financial system.

Regarding NEO specifically, smart contract systems like NEO, Ethereum and EOS (among others) are a demonstration of what we might be able to see in trustless systems like this. Imagine a land titles registry that real estate agents use like a decentralized MLS system and that's managed entirely by a smart contract on the blockchain. No need for slow government departments (especially slow in developing countries) and no more mysteries in land disputes; just a trustless system that works with a smart contract on a blockchain accessible by any interested party for virtually free. I'd say those possibilities and other much grander visions are pretty awe inspiring.

*footnote here. While the blockchain is not governed by "human oversight", it is governed by automated systems that are set up and operated in an automated fashion by humans. So fundamentally, these are still human governed systems, but thanks to Satoshi Nakamoto (whoever he/she/they might be) we have found an economic incentive structure which allows for trustlessness to be completely automated in blockchains.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2018, 12:36:50 PM
There is a lot of verbal/written, diarrhea being posted,  thus from now on, I will let the price of Bitcoin speak for itself. Last week I  posted a price of 12k USD,  to day, it stands at 7K!

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: JonasBlixx on March 15, 2018, 01:22:15 PM
It will end in tears.
Im forecasting $1 Bitcoin in <24 months.
Short now when still can.
Speculative driven,
speculators get bored when price action stalls like it has. they will pull out and invest elsewhere.
it'll be like a football stadium crowd exiting through one door.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: nck on March 15, 2018, 01:43:43 PM
it's a pyramidal scheme, the first win big and the rest loose
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
it's a pyramidal scheme, the first win big and the rest loose

They also hire marketers,  who have no consciousness or ethical values, to blab-blah their bs to convince other unsuspecting and naive investors to get in while the market is hot in this amazing new technology of "hot air". Either way, "caveat emptor". ::)

The stories of loss will continue to flow until the legitimate authorities start jailing some of these perpetrators (Piranha), to set an example.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on March 18, 2018, 04:21:25 PM
Just checked Bitcoin's price and it has collapsed all the way back to November levels over the past week while retaining its downward trajectory.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on March 18, 2018, 06:18:08 PM
The purpose of the cryptos is accomplished – the people all over the world was robbed with near half a trillion dollars and most of them are small investors. This is the biggest and most sophisticated fraud in the history.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 19, 2018, 03:16:02 PM
Half a trillion dollars? Where did you get that number, if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on March 19, 2018, 03:35:39 PM
From the total market capitalisation of all cryptos.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on March 19, 2018, 04:00:49 PM
From the total market capitalisation of all cryptos.
I disagree with your statement to some point. Were there scams with ICO and cryptocurrencies - YES. Was this the original cryptos idea - ABSOLUTELY NO. If you are thinking that cryptos were created to rob the people from around the world, then you are very very very very far away from the truth!
Let me give you a little bit of history lesson in order to understand the basic idea. - Conventional currencies are backed up by Gold or silver. (In theory if you go to the bank and you give 1 dollar, the bank is obligated to pay you the amount in gold, however this doesn't work in practice). Why ? - Because human kind is greed and it is making the same mistake over and over and over again and it is like we never learn, but anyway let me explain what I mean. At some point the government of US during the wars decided that they can actually print money without backing that paper with actual gold. During the wars Americans have been spending lots of dollars in Europe for exchanging services, but European countries (France to be exact) found out what happen and they started sending to US dollars demanding gold in exchange. Other countries did the same, and the US started doing that, but at some point they have realized that if they pay all the countries back the gold they owe it will leave America with no gold and actually they don't have enough gold to pay all the countries back (You can check this information it was during president Nikson and I believe it is called the golden standard period.)
Currently every country in the world is printing money without backing up the currency, which is absolutely insane! If you don't believe me - check the buying power of your country and if it has lowered during the past 10 - 20 years.
Now looking back at cryptoes and the blockchain technology - 1. Nobody can print more than the original amount. 2 Goverments don't have full control over it. (Which for the controlling over scam part is bad of course). I hope my explations helped you realize what was the original idea for cryptoes. Cheers!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 19, 2018, 04:29:39 PM
From the total market capitalisation of all cryptos.
I disagree with your statement to some point. Were there scams with ICO and cryptocurrencies - YES. Was this the original cryptos idea - ABSOLUTELY NO. If you are thinking that cryptos were created to rob the people from around the world, then you are very very very very far away from the truth!
Let me give you a little bit of history lesson in order to understand the basic idea. - Conventional currencies are backed up by Gold or silver. (In theory if you go to the bank and you give 1 dollar, the bank is obligated to pay you the amount in gold, however this doesn't work in practice). Why ? - Because human kind is greed and it is making the same mistake over and over and over again and it is like we never learn, but anyway let me explain what I mean. At some point the government of US during the wars decided that they can actually print money without backing that paper with actual gold. During the wars Americans have been spending lots of dollars in Europe for exchanging services, but European countries (France to be exact) found out what happen and they started sending to US dollars demanding gold in exchange. Other countries did the same, and the US started doing that, but at some point they have realized that if they pay all the countries back the gold they owe it will leave America with no gold and actually they don't have enough gold to pay all the countries back (You can check this information it was during president Nikson and I believe it is called the golden standard period.)
Currently every country in the world is printing money without backing up the currency, which is absolutely insane! If you don't believe me - check the buying power of your country and if it has lowered during the past 10 - 20 years.
Now looking back at cryptoes and the blockchain technology - 1. Nobody can print more than the original amount. 2 Goverments don't have full control over it. (Which for the controlling over scam part is bad of course). I hope my explations helped you realize what was the original idea for cryptoes. Cheers!

Hello, Paul.

One simple question; which government backs any crypto and which agency "guarantees" it as a medium of exchance?
Finally,  how can you claim to know the purpose for the development of cryptocurrencies,  what is your legitimate source?

Currencies may not be backed by gold reserves but almost all countries which issue any legitimate currency, do make sure they have a large amount of it in reserve, just in case.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: JonasBlixx on March 19, 2018, 05:51:01 PM
From the total market capitalisation of all cryptos.
I disagree with your statement to some point. Were there scams with ICO and cryptocurrencies - YES. Was this the original cryptos idea - ABSOLUTELY NO. If you are thinking that cryptos were created to rob the people from around the world, then you are very very very very far away from the truth!
Let me give you a little bit of history lesson in order to understand the basic idea. - Conventional currencies are backed up by Gold or silver. (In theory if you go to the bank and you give 1 dollar, the bank is obligated to pay you the amount in gold, however this doesn't work in practice). Why ? - Because human kind is greed and it is making the same mistake over and over and over again and it is like we never learn, but anyway let me explain what I mean. At some point the government of US during the wars decided that they can actually print money without backing that paper with actual gold. During the wars Americans have been spending lots of dollars in Europe for exchanging services, but European countries (France to be exact) found out what happen and they started sending to US dollars demanding gold in exchange. Other countries did the same, and the US started doing that, but at some point they have realized that if they pay all the countries back the gold they owe it will leave America with no gold and actually they don't have enough gold to pay all the countries back (You can check this information it was during president Nikson and I believe it is called the golden standard period.)
Currently every country in the world is printing money without backing up the currency, which is absolutely insane! If you don't believe me - check the buying power of your country and if it has lowered during the past 10 - 20 years.
Now looking back at cryptoes and the blockchain technology - 1. Nobody can print more than the original amount. 2 Goverments don't have full control over it. (Which for the controlling over scam part is bad of course). I hope my explations helped you realize what was the original idea for cryptoes. Cheers!

The exact reason why the monetary system will survive and cryptos will fail. Too much money laundering, no government or state backing and a system that can lose millions with a single hack. Its a fad, pipe dream. Still selling bitcoin into $1.
When all the naive 20s somethings realise they've been had......buying an e-coin without intrinsic value for $20k a pop....they will be teaching it for next 200 years in economics class the level of gullibility is astonishing.
8200% returns for $1 bitcoing.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on March 19, 2018, 07:18:24 PM
From the total market capitalisation of all cryptos.
I disagree with your statement to some point. Were there scams with ICO and cryptocurrencies - YES. Was this the original cryptos idea - ABSOLUTELY NO. If you are thinking that cryptos were created to rob the people from around the world, then you are very very very very far away from the truth!
Let me give you a little bit of history lesson in order to understand the basic idea. - Conventional currencies are backed up by Gold or silver. (In theory if you go to the bank and you give 1 dollar, the bank is obligated to pay you the amount in gold, however this doesn't work in practice). Why ? - Because human kind is greed and it is making the same mistake over and over and over again and it is like we never learn, but anyway let me explain what I mean. At some point the government of US during the wars decided that they can actually print money without backing that paper with actual gold. During the wars Americans have been spending lots of dollars in Europe for exchanging services, but European countries (France to be exact) found out what happen and they started sending to US dollars demanding gold in exchange. Other countries did the same, and the US started doing that, but at some point they have realized that if they pay all the countries back the gold they owe it will leave America with no gold and actually they don't have enough gold to pay all the countries back (You can check this information it was during president Nikson and I believe it is called the golden standard period.)
Currently every country in the world is printing money without backing up the currency, which is absolutely insane! If you don't believe me - check the buying power of your country and if it has lowered during the past 10 - 20 years.
Now looking back at cryptoes and the blockchain technology - 1. Nobody can print more than the original amount. 2 Goverments don't have full control over it. (Which for the controlling over scam part is bad of course). I hope my explations helped you realize what was the original idea for cryptoes. Cheers!

The exact reason why the monetary system will survive and cryptos will fail. Too much money laundering, no government or state backing and a system that can lose millions with a single hack. Its a fad, pipe dream. Still selling bitcoin into $1.
When all the naive 20s somethings realise they've been had......buying an e-coin without intrinsic value for $20k a pop....they will be teaching it for next 200 years in economics class the level of gullibility is astonishing.
8200% returns for $1 bitcoing.

Switching global economy from gold to unbacked fiat was also hard and probably controversial. At some point the group who promoted the idea was in the minority.
It all depends on the powerful on whom they call to respect on believe - whether it is God or bitcoin :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on March 20, 2018, 06:45:49 AM
Take my words if you wish, or better make your own research, but anything invented in secrecy from the US secret services can not be used for the good of the people.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on March 20, 2018, 08:40:33 AM
I think Bitcoin was more likely invented ar the behest of gambling website owners after the 2008 online gambling credit card crackdown. Conveniently, it then came to be used by the "dark web" as untraceable means of payment. Then the "evangelists" kicked in to pump it like a pyramid scheme.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: wallstreet.forex.robot on March 20, 2018, 09:49:39 AM
The best cryptographers in the world as a rule work for the government secret services. The whitepaper work of the Bitcoin has all signs of an extensive collective work. The level of secrecy and conspiracy involved in the Bitcoin genesis points that way too. There is no living person, who can be so deeply and so long involved in something and stay completely anonymous. The only way this to be possible is if the person behind this is tight by a death serious secrecy agreement, so even his wife does not know what he is doing. If a normal person was in the bottom of this you can be 100% sure his identity would be exposed in 100 ways.

You can check what is SHA-256 and who created it.

As well "HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONIC CASH" a whitepaper published 1996 from a NSA associates.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 20, 2018, 12:02:35 PM
I want to make a correction to something I asked Paul earlier about any legitimate government recognizing any crypto; there is one, the Petro,  put out by Venezuela. The question is one might derive from this is:
1- Is that government legitimate and, 2- Is the Petrol legal?

Here is the US response:

Venezuela's crypto-currency - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43466465

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 20, 2018, 07:09:39 PM
The Petro is not a legitimate cryptocurrency. It is centrally controlled and "backed" by esoteric resources like oil still in the ground.

As for the rest of what's been posted, I'm not sure what to address. I've just returned home from a couple of crypto conferences in Puerto Rico where crypto billionaires and millionaires are and have been putting funds into restoring the islands after the government has left people largely without help. I'm madly tired...just wiped out. I met a wonderful bartender in fact, along with some friends who is actually into solar and with his help and the help of a co-working space, we're drawing up plans to restore power to central parts of the island without government help that is projected to be two or more years away. The immense desire of people to help others in need is something I've found to be more prevalent in the crypto space than I've found in the financial technology space in the past quite honestly.

Anyhow, since HT mentioned that the price of Bitcoin is what he would let do the talking, I'd like to point out that Bitcoin is up YTD 735%, $1,081 to $8,863 as I type this. If a trader looks only at bear cycles to determine if something is of value, I suppose everything looks like a scam at some point.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 20, 2018, 10:28:59 PM
The Petro is not a legitimate cryptocurrency. It is centrally controlled and "backed" by esoteric resources like oil still in the ground.

As for the rest of what's been posted, I'm not sure what to address. I've just returned home from a couple of crypto conferences in Puerto Rico where crypto billionaires and millionaires are and have been putting funds into restoring the islands after the government has left people largely without help. I'm madly tired...just wiped out. I met a wonderful bartender in fact, along with some friends who is actually into solar and with his help and the help of a co-working space, we're drawing up plans to restore power to central parts of the island without government help that is projected to be two or more years away. The immense desire of people to help others in need is something I've found to be more prevalent in the crypto space than I've found in the financial technology space in the past quite honestly.

Anyhow, since HT mentioned that the price of Bitcoin is what he would let do the talking, I'd like to point out that Bitcoin is up YTD 735%, $1,081 to $8,863 as I type this. If a trader looks only at bear cycles to determine if something is of value, I suppose everything looks like a scam at some point.


Congats,  Psycho on "all" those who care enought to share and help others, more importantly, that you have come to realise this.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 20, 2018, 11:35:45 PM
Been a guiding principle of my life; as it should be for most people who wish to be happy people.

Actually, as I think about it, there's something else that was impressed upon me in Puerto Rico this past week or so. The crypto space is great for women and that's what I'm being told by the women in it. For instance, the CEO of a project I'm working closely with in an advisory role talks about how she came into crypto, a male dominated space (it's still like high 90's percentage men) and expected to have to break down barriers being a woman. She comes from the insurance and publishing industries. In fact, to her great surprise, there were no barriers to break down and this is a story that was repeated to without prompting from several women at the conventions I went to on that Island. The space is exceptionally apathetic about what's in between your legs and cares much much more about merit. I think that's true of tech sectors in general though I've seen deviations from that.

It's a refreshing change from a lot of industries that can sometimes embrace institutionalized sexism in some respects. Not that I think that's a major problem in all industries or something; I just see that it's basically a complete nothingburger of a problem entirely when it comes to crypto. Could be part of what explains why the space has so many humanitarians.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 20, 2018, 11:41:41 PM
As long as wealth is earned honestly and shared wisely,  it is an honorable space to be in. Keep it up.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on March 21, 2018, 04:44:09 AM
Looks ThinkForex is getting into the blockchain act offering trading with Thinkcoins including an ICO.

https://docsend.com/view/mg525qq
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 21, 2018, 12:01:33 PM
Looks ThinkForex is getting into the blockchain act offering trading with Thinkcoins including an ICO.

https://docsend.com/view/mg525qq

I was ready to brush that off when I saw that they're only going to allocate 60% of the tokens to the public. That's bad tokenomics in my view that can lead to tokens becoming simple cash cows for the issuers which can innovation and service to the marketplace. Better that a token issuer hopes that their 10% share doubles rather than their 40% share increases in value by 25% or something. This kind of allocation seems greedy.

That said, I will be keeping my eye on their project because he value proposition makes sense in terms of how a token might reduce commission fees. Also, the thought of account balances denominated in this token is madly interesting to me.

Releasing their token as an ERC20 kind of makes sense in that it should work, but if Trade Connect (terrible name by the way lol) becomes wildly popular and Ethereum isn't able to scale properly in the near future, this will end up not functioning because they are running a token on a network that is presently limited to just 15 transactions per second. If this does succeed in significantly driving down commission fees and the market takes notice, Trade Connect will easily require thousands of TPS at peake to operate day to day.

So...interesting ICO in my opinion. Account denominations in an asset not hyperinflated by any government is also very intriguing.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 21, 2018, 03:30:10 PM
Guys, if any of you are trading with Bittrex keep in mind that   they announced they are delisting 82 altcoins from its platform by the end of March. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Bittrex-delists-82-altcoins-from-platform)
According to the announcement, the reasons for the decision include poor liquidity and “broken blockchains or wallets that will not allow withdrawals.” Others have been abandoned by their developers or have been designed as pump-and-dump schemes and scams.
Once the wallets of the coins are removed from the platform, clients will no longer be able to recover and withdraw them, nor refunds will be possible.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: nwboater on March 21, 2018, 04:16:27 PM
I thought Forex was the Wild West. It's seems incredibly tame compared to the Crypto world!

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: JonasBlixx on March 21, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
Guys, if any of you are trading with Bittrex keep in mind that   they announced they are delisting 82 altcoins from its platform by the end of March. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Bittrex-delists-82-altcoins-from-platform)
According to the announcement, the reasons for the decision include poor liquidity and “broken blockchains or wallets that will not allow withdrawals.” Others have been abandoned by their developers or have been designed as pump-and-dump schemes and scams.
Once the wallets of the coins are removed from the platform, clients will no longer be able to recover and withdraw them, nor refunds will be possible.

and the distance between dream and reality draws closer.
what a sad start to an inevitable landslide in e-coins.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 21, 2018, 07:31:52 PM
Guys, if any of you are trading with Bittrex keep in mind that   they announced they are delisting 82 altcoins from its platform by the end of March. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/Bittrex-delists-82-altcoins-from-platform)
According to the announcement, the reasons for the decision include poor liquidity and “broken blockchains or wallets that will not allow withdrawals.” Others have been abandoned by their developers or have been designed as pump-and-dump schemes and scams.
Once the wallets of the coins are removed from the platform, clients will no longer be able to recover and withdraw them, nor refunds will be possible.

and the distance between dream and reality draws closer.
what a sad start to an inevitable landslide in e-coins.

This is how free markets works and free markets are where the vast majority of projects die as they should. If you think that's a sad start, I'd suggest that you don't understand the emergent evolution of self organizing systems. Think of the precambrian explosion where there were innumerable configurations of eyes in evolving creatures. Some creatures had two eyes as is common now, but many creatures had five eyes, were covered in eyes or whatever else. Nature was trying out several different types of eyes and a two eye configuration with niche specialization relative to environment ended up being most common with outliers being driven by further  environmental needs for further specialization. This is how systems evolve and this is how markets operate as well. Most things we try fail, but that's not sad; it's just learning which is rather beautiful and fascinating unless you don't believe in learning from your mistakes.

This past weekend I met a fellow from a large VC firm in California and he repeated something to me that I've heard and embraced in the past. Most VC firms rely on "unicorns" to see success. That's their central business model. Most of the investments they make just fail miserably, but investors expect that because sophisticated investors understand that markets are exceptionally dynamic and that failure is part of learning on a path to success. If you ask me in fact, (not that you did:)) I think there are a ton of failures yet to come as the success rate of crypto projects is presently abnormally high. I think one metric had ICOs failing at a rate of something like 45% and people were alarmed but VC firms would strangle newborn kittens with the entrails of starving children for a success rate that high!

I've been repeating it for ages; the vast majority of cryptos that we see in existence today will fail. If you don't expect that and you're entering this kind of market, you're setting yourself up for failure. In fact, speaking to nwboater's comment, if you think Forex is highly risky, baby you ain't seen nothing yet. Come on over to crypto land.  ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: JonasBlixx on March 21, 2018, 09:02:19 PM
If this is your logic ill stick to backing horses.
Basically you need involved in every altcoin to hit the unicorn.

Own a stake in every mine.
Only winners are shovel sellers and dynamite sellers.
Some.things never change.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 21, 2018, 09:24:24 PM
Well sure, if you're looking for unicorns but the market is not composed only of unicorns and dead horses. I'm just explaining that any market has a high failure rate.

I think you misunderstood my message.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 21, 2018, 10:28:23 PM
The Petro is not a legitimate cryptocurrency. It is centrally controlled and "backed" by esoteric resources like oil still in the ground.

As for the rest of what's been posted, I'm not sure what to address. I've just returned home from a couple of crypto conferences in Puerto Rico where crypto billionaires and millionaires are and have been putting funds into restoring the islands after the government has left people largely without help. I'm madly tired...just wiped out. I met a wonderful bartender in fact, along with some friends who is actually into solar and with his help and the help of a co-working space, we're drawing up plans to restore power to central parts of the island without government help that is projected to be two or more years away. The immense desire of people to help others in need is something I've found to be more prevalent in the crypto space than I've found in the financial technology space in the past quite honestly.

Anyhow, since HT mentioned that the price of Bitcoin is what he would let do the talking, I'd like to point out that Bitcoin is up YTD 735%, $1,081 to $8,863 as I type this. If a trader looks only at bear cycles to determine if something is of value, I suppose everything looks like a scam at some point.

Psycho, I forgot to mention, Elon Musk; he was one of the earliest entrepreneurs who offered his storage cell batteries to help solve the island's electrical needs. I hope you guys know of this and may have plans to work with him on supporting the island's needs.


Regards, 8)
HubleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 22, 2018, 06:09:03 PM
Well, I didn't expect this to happen for some time. Beeks is partnering with Gemini in New York to offer direct connections to Gemini for Bitcoin and Ethereum traders.

https://www.finextra.com/pressarticle/73184/beeks-financial-cloud-enters-cryptocurrency-market-with-gemini-exchange

This is a significant first step in upgrading the intermarket infrastructure among crypto exchanges in my view.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on March 30, 2018, 08:12:12 AM
CanadiaPsycho, very noble cause that you are fighting ! I have my fingers crossed, that you manage to help these people out ! Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on March 30, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
Significant progress is being made there after the devastation and it's largely thanks to private enterprise and helpful people of means. It'd be much better there had gov't not screwed up recovery efforts pretty much entirely outside of the tourist areas but at least they got that. :/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 01, 2018, 03:25:26 PM
Bitcoin is dropping like a rock this month/week. As much as 40% more of its value has been wiped off in just one month alone for no clear reason.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 01, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
I dunno about "no clear reason" as the previous parabolic high was clearly speculation driven. Crypto markets are all diving as they have in the past. As I've said before, it's a very volatile market and movements like this have characterized the Bitcoin market since its beginning and will continue to characterize it for a long time.

Morgan Stanley at least doesn't seem too worried about it.

https://concisetuts.pro/morgan-stanley-has-good-news-for-the-bitcoin-investors/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 01, 2018, 04:54:52 PM
Yes, this is what it is - a bubble that went pop.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 01, 2018, 05:25:43 PM
That is a familiar and consistently short sighted refrain. I've heard it often. I think people can sometimes get angrier and angrier at their wrongness and just dig in their heels when instead they could be learning about something new. Could be...but instead...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 01, 2018, 05:32:55 PM
A decade-old is hardly new. Holders have managed to pump the price with the invention of scam ICOs and are finally exiting this dated technology that failed at mass adoption for a handsome profit.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 01, 2018, 08:04:38 PM
A decade old is "hardly new", but then it's "dated technology"? Alright then.

As I've commented on before in this thread, blockchain technology is a significant development in the field of computer science and serves as a new solution to the byzantine generals problem, an academic problem that'd been addressed before by human managed webs of trust. That's what's new and what's compelling to some of us. If it's not compelling to you, what can I say but that I think you could benefit by reevaluating your perspective.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on April 05, 2018, 10:24:55 AM
A decade old is "hardly new", but then it's "dated technology"? Alright then.

As I've commented on before in this thread, blockchain technology is a significant development in the field of computer science and serves as a new solution to the byzantine generals problem, an academic problem that'd been addressed before by human managed webs of trust. That's what's new and what's compelling to some of us. If it's not compelling to you, what can I say but that I think you could benefit by reevaluating your perspective.
I agree with you. I don't really understand, why most people are just deciding that cryptoes (and the Blockchain technology) are scams and they were made for the sole purpose, few people to make large amounts of money and that it is. Nobody is looking at the bigger picture. When someone creates something new, it is absolutely natural for some people to try to use this creation to scam other people and make money. This itself does not mean that the invention itself is a scam and the purpose of it was scam. It only shows that we as humans, are having different moral values. For me it is like saying that McDonald's purpose from the begging was to make people fat. No it wasn't their intention - main idea was to create a fast food restaurant where, people will not wait to eat. I hope you guys, get my point. Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 07:31:29 AM
People think so because there's very little utility in Bitcoin after a decade: gambling, porn, and drugs.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
The funny part there is that even if that were true, it would prove that Bitcoin is a functional unit of exchange as it's being used to buy and sell goods and services. You can get hung up on that if you want to preserve a myopic view, but from an academic viewpoint one should be compelled to wonder; if Bitcoin is useful for buying heroin, would it also be useful for buying a bag of oranges or perhaps rent a property?

While naysayers get lost in some moral crusade that foolishly targets Bitcoin (dollars are used for the same things) the rest of us can start to figure out what makes a functional medium of exchange and cryptocurrencies are certainly well on their way.

Frankly, I think the black markets adopting a tool is about one of the best indicators of its usefulness you can get. PayPal for instance started in the dirtiest parts of the web and E-Gold was the same before it was shuttered by government. The black market doesn't care about whether or not some new tech' is interesting. The black market only cares whether or not it works so if they're using it, I think that's pretty compelling.

But by all means, be a moral crusader first and an economist second when you're judging a new technology. I'm sure that's a great plan. *chuckle*
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 07, 2018, 09:51:21 PM
A decade old is "hardly new", but then it's "dated technology"? Alright then.

As I've commented on before in this thread, blockchain technology is a significant development in the field of computer science and serves as a new solution to the byzantine generals problem, an academic problem that'd been addressed before by human managed webs of trust. That's what's new and what's compelling to some of us. If it's not compelling to you, what can I say but that I think you could benefit by reevaluating your perspective.
I agree with you. I don't really understand, why most people are just deciding that cryptoes (and the Blockchain technology) are scams and they were made for the sole purpose, few people to make large amounts of money and that it is. Nobody is looking at the bigger picture. When someone creates something new, it is absolutely natural for some people to try to use this creation to scam other people and make money. This itself does not mean that the invention itself is a scam and the purpose of it was scam. It only shows that we as humans, are having different moral values. For me it is like saying that McDonald's purpose from the begging was to make people fat. No it wasn't their intention - main idea was to create a fast food restaurant where, people will not wait to eat. I hope you guys, get my point. Cheers


I agree with you Paul and have stated so many times here that blockchain technology is an excellent evolution in the efficiency of monetary transactions which will end up being adopted by "ligitemate" banking authorities.  Where Psycho and I part ways is in the fact that he believes in their "crypto" part and I don't. The main reason why we have criminal elements evade and exploit ligitemate Govermental institutions to the detriment of society is because they lurch in the darkness of such.

Bitcoin for example is not based on its agreed value by organized society but is itself sold and bought as a commodity based on the hype promoted by people who advertise it as a commodity. One may argue that gold for instance receives it's value through market forces but gold has a  tangible value based on human labour, commercial use etc. Cryptocurrencies are just that "cryptos", produced out of thin air by anyone in his basement with a computer. The whole idea behind currencies is that they be a medium of exchange recognized, authorized and yes, controled by a ligitemate authority.

Now back to Psycho  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 10:08:03 PM
By now, just about everyone has heard of Bitcoin due to the recent massive hype but hardly anyone uses it as means of exchange: too expensive to transact, too inconvenient, too unstable. Only those who can't use legitimate currencies transact in Bitcoin regularly (i.e. the "dark web"). Not only there is no mass adoption but also no incentive for it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 10:18:01 PM
I agree with you Paul and have stated so many times here that blockchain technology is an excellent evolution in the efficiency of monetary transactions which will end up being adopted by "ligitemate" banking authorities.  Where Psycho and I part ways is in the fact that he believes in their "crypto" part and I don't. The main reason why we have criminal elements evade and exploit ligitemate Govermental institutions to the detriment of society is because they lurch in the darkness of such.

Bitcoin for example is not based on its agreed value by organized society but is itself sold and bought as a commodity based on the hype promoted by people who advertise it as a commodity. One may argue that gold for instance receives it's value through market forces but gold has a  tangible value based on human labour, commercial use etc. Cryptocurrencies are just that "cryptos", produced out of thin air by anyone in his basement with a computer. The whole idea behind currencies is that they be a medium of exchange recognized, authorized and yes, controled by a ligitemate authority.

Now back to Psycho  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

And that right there is just a bare admission that you don't understand how money attains value. Also, cryptographic security that enables everything you seem to dislike about crypto is literally the core concept that makes cryptocurrency possible.

I mean...I'm not even sure what to explain to you. I'd reccomend perhaps that you educate yourself by reading this book written by Ludwig Von Mises in 1912. It's called The Theory of Money and Credit and it provides what I believe to be the first notably successful text that managed to link monetary theory and economics in a way that elevated money beyond a simplified political instrument.

https://mises.org/library/theory-money-and-credit

You keep jabbing at the fact that I have a lot to say on this topic. Might I suggest that it's because I have taken the effort to learn about this and that my effort contrasts to yours which is evidently diminutive? You consistently complain if I insult you and yet you childishly continue to throw these little barbs my way. How about you put a little less effort into the silly jabs and a little more effort into learning about that which you feel a need to opine on.

By now, just about everyone has heard of Bitcoin due to the recent massive hype but hardly anyone uses it as means of exchange: too expensive to transact, too inconvenient, too unstable. Only those who can't use legitimate currencies transact in Bitcoin regularly (i.e. the "dark web"). Not only there is no mass adoption but also no incentive for it.

Most people I encounter day to day have heard of Bitcoin but have no idea what it is or how it works. I still get asked roughly 100% of the time when talking to people about it if there are physical coins involved. Plenty of people who transact with "legitimate" currencies use Bitcoin. In some environments it is far preferable to "legitimate" currencies like in hyperinflationary nations or nations where capital controls place severe constrictions on capital flows like Zimbabwe.

But again, feel free to morally crusade while others progress. You wouldn't be the first to fall down that hole. I just think you're ill served by this silly stuff. Why do you care if a currency is being used to buy drugs? If you do care, why do you use currency at all? I know of no currency that isn't used for that.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 10:35:48 PM
For means of exchange to gain mass adoption, its day-to-day use shouldn't be hard to figure. Also, how can businesses rely on a currency which can go down 50% in three months like Bitcoin just did?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 07, 2018, 10:37:56 PM

You keep jabbing at the fact that I have a lot to say on this topic. Might I suggest that it's because I have taken the effort to learn about this and that my effort contrasts to yours which is evidently diminutive? You consistently call me out for insulting you and yet you childishly continue to throw these little barbs my way. How about you put a little less effort into the silly jabs and a little more effort into learning about that which you feel a need to opine on.


Dear Psycho,

We all can see that you have insecurities and issues of grandore, but as people will witnesse in this exchange,  you were only referenced twice in my post and that was in reference,  no insult was intended yet clearly your post is directly targeted to insult me as you have done in most of your previous posts. I dare you to set up a survey of those reading this exchange to see who is insulting who as being ignorant, illiterate and brash!

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 10:48:08 PM
I'm sorry HT, but you established a very negative history with me very early on in our interactions between one another. I have no respect for someone who would sling the type of vile things you slung at me in private messages. I don't read anything of yours addressed to me with any modicum of civility because of what you've thrown at me in the past. You're a vile fellow who I very much dislike. I don't wish you any ill will as I've said before, but don't expect me to be friendly with you because I'm not going to be. You don't deserve it.

For means of exchange to gain mass adoption, its day-to-day use shouldn't be hard to figure. Also, how can businesses rely on a currency which can go down 50% in three months like Bitcoin just did?

It can't. This is why while cryptocurrencies grow, payment processors are required to bridge the gap between businesses and trading houses so that businesses don't have to hold and risk exposure to volatility. Payment processors though are widely acknowledged to be a step along a path of monetary evolution for a system that does not simply gain adoption overnight. No monetary system functions properly like that.

It doesn't happen all in one go for crying out loud. I mean...be reasonable man!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 07, 2018, 10:56:00 PM
I'm sorry HT, but you established a very negative history with me very early on in our interactions between one another. I have no respect for someone who would sling the type of vile things you slung at me in private messages. I don't read anything of yours addressed to me with any modicum of civility because of what you've thrown at me in the past. You're a vile fellow who I very much dislike. I don't wish you any ill will as I've said before, but don't expect me to be friendly with you because I'm not going to be. You don't deserve it.

For means of exchange to gain mass adoption, its day-to-day use shouldn't be hard to figure. Also, how can businesses rely on a currency which can go down 50% in three months like Bitcoin just did?

It can't. This is why while cryptocurrencies grow, payment processors are required to bridge the gap between businesses and trading houses so that businesses don't have to hold and risk exposure to volatility. Payment processors though are widely acknowledged to be a step along a path of monetary evolution for a system that does not simply gain adoption overnight. No monetary system functions properly like that.

It doesn't happen all in one go for crying out loud. I mean...be reasonable man!

You are truly ill, get help! You quote past comments which YOU initiated without any reference to you and you use that as an excuse for your sorry state.

But you always have an out when things get too hot for you in the kitchen, you either claim that I am out of topic or you use the bigger guns and call on MammaD to come to your rescue.  Grow up!

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 10:57:13 PM
Right right. I expect some messages in my inbox shortly calling me a fag or something.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 07, 2018, 11:10:18 PM
Right right. I expect some messages in my inbox shortly calling me a fag or something.

Carry on.

No, from now on all will be public, you don't know what private means and like the cryptos you peddle here, you and they have minimal value.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 11:15:49 PM
Let's say I have an offline shop of some sort and purchase supplies with fiat for it. I then sell my goods/services for Bitcoin per the current exchange rate. Three months after, Bitcoin drops 50%. What do I do? I can't "HODL to the moon for a lambo" as I have immediate business expenses to meet.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 07, 2018, 11:28:52 PM
Let's say I have an offline shop of some sort and purchase supplies with fiat for it. I then sell my goods/services for Bitcoin per the current exchange rate. Three months after, Bitcoin drops 50%. What do I do? I can't "HODL to the moon for a lambo" as I have immediate business expenses to

A man bought a golden goose for 1 bitcoin ( 20k) USD, by the time he came to the cash register to pay for such, the price of BT had dropped to current ( 7K); the merchant gave him three feathers; one for his hat, another for his stupidity and one to shove up the cryptic place. Lol
😂

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 11:30:04 PM
Let's say I have an offline shop of some sort and purchase supplies with fiat for it. I then sell my goods/services for Bitcoin per the current exchange rate. Three months after, Bitcoin drops 50%. What do I do? I can't "HODL to the moon for a lambo" as I have immediate business expenses to meet.

You don't hold it. You're not a crypto investor in that scenario so why would you? Most businesses I know of that accept crypto use payment processors to instantly convert the crypto they recieve into more commonly used fiat monies. Some hold a small percentage of their crypto from sales, but most convert all of it. Either way it's advantageous for the crypto-economy at large because so long as it's being used for goods and services, this increases the money velocity of crypto and causes it to index value over the long term.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 11:33:22 PM
Let's say I have an offline shop of some sort and purchase supplies with fiat for it. I then sell my goods/services for Bitcoin per the current exchange rate. Three months after, Bitcoin drops 50%. What do I do? I can't "HODL to the moon for a lambo" as I have immediate business expenses to meet.

You don't hold it. You're not a crypto investor in that scenario so why would you? Most businesses I know of that accept crypto use payment processors to instantly convert the crypto they recieve into more commonly used fiat monies. Some hold a small percentage of their crypto from sales, but most convert all of it. Either way it's advantageous for the crypto-economy at large because so long as it's being used for goods and services, this increases the money velocity of crypto and causes it to index value over the long term.

So why use it if I have to convert it all the time for an additional fee?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 11:36:23 PM
So why use it if I have to convert it all the time for an additional fee?

Good question. What answers do you think there might be?

I'll give you a hint. People accept cards for purchases, often with no added cost to the customer even though it costs the merchant money to accept those cards. Why do you suppose they'd do that?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 07, 2018, 11:46:08 PM
So why use it if I have to convert it all the time for an additional fee?

Good question. What answers do you think there might be?

I'll give you a hint. People accept cards for purchases, often with no added cost to the customer even though it costs the merchant money to accept those cards. Why do you suppose they'd do that?

Out of convenience for their customers who carry a small plastic card with them instead of stacks of cash while it's the same government-backed stable money.

Sure, if a significant number of my customers wanted to pay me in Bitcoin and whose business I wouldn't get otherwise, I wouldn't mind paying the exchange fees. Yet I don't see those significant numbers. What really sells well for Bitcoin these days except for items whose buyers want to stay anonymous?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 07, 2018, 11:59:36 PM
Right, customer acquisition.

Quite a few companies adopted Bitcoin for a while when people were using it for purchases but that stopped largely because the Bitcoin network became expensive to use as technical developers came to an impasse on how to scale the Bitcoin blockchain. These included companies like Dell, Newegg, Steam, Shopify, Namecheap domain registrars, Cheap Air dot com for travel and so on. The first fully Bitcoin using store (only accepted Bitcoin and kept all the BTC it recieved) was BitcoinStore dot Com which sold electronics. It was madly successful and since it was constructed simply to make a point, the Bitcoin evangelist that started it shuttered it and moved on to other projects.

I bought a gaming laptop from there actually, now that I think back.

Anyway, all of these stores and more (except the last one) accepted Bitcoin because they saw a customer base out there that wanted to spend it. This was all before Bitcoin was $1,000 and that user base is there today and more broadly distributed though in a bear market, no one wants to really spend their coins right now. This is expected of bearish market cycles in crypto; people don't like spending a depreciating asset on goods or services that are also depreciable.

Because Bitcoin ran into a development issue that caused it to become expensive, (it is no longer mired in this problem) the companies that accepted it largely abandoned it. Some now accept other cryptos and some don't accept crypto at all. Just like you'd expect among the common users, retailers come into the economy and exit it as well. Really, retailers are just other users when you get right down to it, so why wouldn't they exit after entry in some cases?

So what sells best is probably drugs and such. I'm not actually sure and I haven't seen any reliable numbers from payment processors recently because I haven't looked for them. When payment processors do offer analysis of their volumes though, electronics retail typically tops the list.

Oh, actually one of the largest used car dealerships in Western Canada accepts Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin by the way. I mean, if you really wanna continue with the scammers line, I'd say used cars is right up there. Hahaha.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 08, 2018, 12:05:55 AM
Who are these developers that seal the fate of Bitcoin? How did they gain their positions and what's the voting procedure between them?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 08, 2018, 12:10:39 AM
So Bitcoin is an open source project. Anyone can be a Bitcoin developer and offer improvements to the code to be judged by others. It's a consensus driven structure so if you submit a line of code let's say, it's up to everyone else to either accept that it be incorporated into Bitcoin or be rejected.

This makes rejection fairly typical because what you're doing is essentially offering a new version of the software and telling everybody "If you use this version, it'll work better." If everybody agrees, you just created a new version of Bitcoin. If there is noticeable disagreement, you're likely to realize rejection.

Because it's open source though, you can also take whatever ideas you have and "fork" the original project. So let's say that you submit code and the community rejects it. You could then announce that you've started Bitcoin Alpha or something. Up to you. If people want to use it then you'll have created a usable alternative. A fork is viable if there is significant market demand for the changes you are offering.

So it's all based on market demand and open source software architecture. No one is king of the hill and competition is of primary importance in the system. No one can be forcibly excluded by any single party and no one can be forcibly included either.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 08, 2018, 12:14:34 AM
By "market demand", I suppose you mean "miners' demand". Sure, they will favor a protocol with as high fees as possible unless and until disused by those it's sold to.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 08, 2018, 12:20:12 AM
By "market demand", I suppose you mean "miners' demand". Sure, they will favor a protocol with as high fees as possible unless and until disused by those it's sold to.

lol no, not quite. Miners will be attracted to whatever blockchain offers the best returns for their computer power but that doesn't drive a coin's value up. It's one part of what makes a coin useful on a "Proof of Work" blockchain because the more mining power that's allocated, the more secure it is, but Miners are chasing increased values that result from markets driving the price of a coin up.

Miners are just one part of the equation. If a project is forked and demanded by the market, it will require miners (if it's a proof of work coin) and a market of buyers and sellers. Developers working on improving the coin or infrastructure for it is pretty crucial too.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 08, 2018, 01:09:13 AM
There's currently a cartel of rather few mining pools, with all power in the hands of the few - quite the contrary to what the Bitcoin "evangelists" profess. The cartel bosses coordinate their actions (e.g. "the New York agreement") and won't support a protocol less profitable for their operations. Sure, one can fork like Roger Ver did but it's effectively creating yet another regulatorily unrecognized alt, whereas only the original Bitcoin remains a legally recognized commodity, and the original Bitcoin is what most miners mine.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 08, 2018, 01:19:03 AM
You're mistaking Bitcoin maximalists for Bitcoin evangelists. Indeed, centralized authority over the Bitcoin core project has been problematic in my view which is indeed why Bitcoin Cash appeared, and why Bitcoin's market dominance has dropped from plus 90% down to 45% today.

None of these alts are unrecognized by authorities. I'm not sure why you think they are.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 08, 2018, 11:04:45 AM
You're mistaking Bitcoin maximalists for Bitcoin evangelists. Indeed, centralized authority over the Bitcoin core project has been problematic in my view which is indeed why Bitcoin Cash appeared, and why Bitcoin's market dominance has dropped from plus 90% down to 45% today.

None of these alts are unrecognized by authorities. I'm not sure why you think they are.
If the alts are recognized by authorities, why do they have to be sold via Bitcoin and not directly for fiat?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 08, 2018, 01:57:48 PM
Alts can be sold for cash just the same as Bitcoin. Again, I have no idea why you think these things.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 08, 2018, 03:33:07 PM
Alts can be sold for cash just the same as Bitcoin. Again, I have no idea why you think these things.
At what exchanges and what alts are sold for cash directly?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 08, 2018, 04:11:17 PM
Several. Most majors like Coinbase, Kraken, Bitfinex, Bitstamp and other offer altcoin markets denominated in fiat. Even the Gemini exchange offers a direct ETH/USD pairing.

If you mean that most non Bitcoin cryptocurrencies are not typically sold for fiat, then you'd be right but 1) that's not what you said and 2) that's not at all because Bitcoin is specifically regulated separate from other cryptocurrencies.

Again, I have no idea why you think this. The least you could do is explain where you got the idea that Bitcoin itself is regulated separate from other cryptocurrencies.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 11, 2018, 03:32:30 PM
Bank of America: Bitcoin bubble is already popping

https://www.coindesk.com/bank-of-america-bitcoin-bubble-is-already-popping/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on April 11, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
Bank of America: Bitcoin bubble is already popping

https://www.coindesk.com/bank-of-america-bitcoin-bubble-is-already-popping/

as canadian pointed out it burst a few times already on the way up.

its a very very complex situation, way outside for me to be comfortable to have any of my mulla invested thats for sure.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on April 12, 2018, 03:44:19 PM
I wanted to comment on so many of the posts that I have read since my last post, but I have to write an academic work of 6 pages ... (chuckle). Now to the point on some of the comments. I saw few comments on adoption of cryptoes. Here is what I think. It will be close to what people have done passing from exchanging gold to exchanging fiat. At the beginning some fiats were connected to gold, in order to measure their value (Because if they are not, than they are just a piece of paper). What you will have in a typical exchange will be , if you want to buy apples you will either have to pay with gold (the old way) or you will have to pay with fiat (the new way). The reasons for this difference (that is depending mainly on the person selling to you) is because some of the people will feel more secure receiving their payment in something that they understand and know for some time, while some people will not mind fiat, because they knew they can exchange it in a bank for gold. The basic idea and principle of a monetary system is very simple (yet surprisingly difficult for all the human kind to understand) - you have to be able to tie down the new system to existing system (this will help through transition period) you have to only create a certain amount this new monetary system (Because if you have the option to create more, this will decrease the value of the monetary system over time and it will eventually fail - as all fiats did in the past).

After this quick review, in order to adopt cryptoes several things must happen. They have to be tied to existing monetary system - ALREADY DONE. They have to have an advantage over existing monetary system - DONE. They have be secured - NOT DONE. They have to be limit to only a certain amount - NOT DONE. (This will ensure that the world will be using the free markets law, which is a self regulated economic law, used in the past !)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 12, 2018, 04:17:23 PM
Ah, but this is what's so compelling. You're very delightfully wrong and I think you'll be interested in where you've made a flawed assumption.

They have be secured - NOT DONE.

In fact, this is done if I am reading you properly. I believe you mean to reference one of two things. Either security from theft and fraud, or more likely you mean to talk about securitized instruments that are convertible. In either case, this is absolutely done. On the theft and fraud front, Bitcoin as the best example has more computing power protecting it than the world's largest supercomputer by well over 100,000 times. People who don't understand the utility of the proof of work protocol that Bitcoin introduced see this computing power as a waste but it is in fact a very novel and very effective security system that makes it impossible to hack the Bitcoin blockchain as well as other blockchains.

On the secutritized and convertible front, that has also already been done. Bitcoin's price as an example if dependent entirely on supply and demand and so Bitcoin is securitized by its quality as a functional money and the value that is thus directly associated with it through purchases and sales. Sound money advocates who believe that this can only be achieved via things like gold and silver misunderstand where precious metals get their value from and I'd challenge precious metals advocates (of which I am one myself) to think of why fiat money works at all and why it fails. Invariably, fiat money always fails not because it is unsound, but because it is susceptible to being made unsound by bad management and a lack of market accountability. Customers are forced to use it so bad decisions on fiscal policy have no significant market impacts until it is too late. If a government money were perfectly managed, it would compete just fine with other instruments that attempt to securitize wealth with fungible units of account.

So, I think what stands in the way here is probably that you're stuck on some very compelling theory about sound money from the likes of Joseph T Salerno et al (contempoary) that hasn't really been thought through to its end. Cryptocurrencies are free market monies and are absolutely secured.

They have to be limit to only a certain amount - NOT DONE.

Incorrect. Not only DONE, but doesn't really have to be either though I think it's optimal that it is done. Bitcoin is limited to 21 million whole units as is Bitcoin Cash. Litecoin is limited to 84 million whole units. Most cryptocurrencies have a "hard cap" coded into their protocols so what you ask for is already there. Creating a second cryptocurrency alongside a limited first one also is not inflation because the two currencies are distinguishable and not fungible with one another. Hyper competitive freedom of choice should not be mistaken for inflationary pressure. It's quite the opposite.

That said, there are currencies that offer expandable or even elastic money supplies. These aren't compelling to me personally, but I don't think they should be dismissed because there may be some economic use cases for elastic money supplies in some cases. The great thing about this is that the market is entirely open and people are free to choose this currency or that and for whatever reason they like. In fact, there are even cryptos backed by gold and silver as I think about it which further addresses your other concern above. Look at the LODE project as a for instance with a distributed vault system for silver that backs their token.

Bottom line, I think this market is further advanced than you might think. :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 12, 2018, 05:02:40 PM
Everything has been done and everyone has heard of Bitcoin - but there was only so much interest in it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 12, 2018, 09:54:35 PM
Just to add to the thread, I'd firmly advise anyone interested in monetary theory or the mechanics of money (very relevantto understanding a major aspect of crypto) to read "What Has The Government Done To Our Money" by Murray Rothbard, published in 1963. I've provided a link to the pdf below. Whatever one might think of Rothbard as an agitator or whatnot, this was one of his greatest works for the layman.

From the book's introduction:

---
Of all the economic problems, money is possibly the most tangled, and perhaps where we most need perspective. Money, moreover, is the economic area most encrusted and entangled with centuries of government meddling. Many people—many economists—usually devoted to the free market stop short at money.

Money, they insist, is different; it must be supplied by government and regulated by government. They never think of state control of money as interference in the free market; a free market in money is unthinkable to them. Governments must mint coins, issue paper, define “legal tender,” create central banks, pump money  in and out, “stabilize the price level,” etc.

Historically, money was one of the first things controlled by government, and the free market “revolution”  of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries made very  little dent in the monetary sphere. So it is high time that we turn fundamental attention to the life-blood of our economy—money.
---

https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money_3.pdf?file=1&type=document
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on April 13, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Ah, but this is what's so compelling. You're very delightfully wrong and I think you'll be interested in where you've made a flawed assumption.

They have be secured - NOT DONE.

In fact, this is done if I am reading you properly. I believe you mean to reference one of two things. Either security from theft and fraud, or more likely you mean to talk about securitized instruments that are convertible. In either case, this is absolutely done. On the theft and fraud front, Bitcoin as the best example has more computing power protecting it than the world's largest supercomputer by well over 100,000 times. People who don't understand the utility of the proof of work protocol that Bitcoin introduced see this computing power as a waste but it is in fact a very novel and very effective security system that makes it impossible to hack the Bitcoin blockchain as well as other blockchains.

On the secutritized and convertible front, that has also already been done. Bitcoin's price as an example if dependent entirely on supply and demand and so Bitcoin is securitized by its quality as a functional money and the value that is thus directly associated with it through purchases and sales. Sound money advocates who believe that this can only be achieved via things like gold and silver misunderstand where precious metals get their value from and I'd challenge precious metals advocates (of which I am one myself) to think of why fiat money works at all and why it fails. Invariably, fiat money always fails not because it is unsound, but because it is susceptible to being made unsound by bad management and a lack of market accountability. Customers are forced to use it so bad decisions on fiscal policy have no significant market impacts until it is too late. If a government money were perfectly managed, it would compete just fine with other instruments that attempt to securitize wealth with fungible units of account.

So, I think what stands in the way here is probably that you're stuck on some very compelling theory about sound money from the likes of Joseph T Salerno et al (contempoary) that hasn't really been thought through to its end. Cryptocurrencies are free market monies and are absolutely secured.

They have to be limit to only a certain amount - NOT DONE.

Incorrect. Not only DONE, but doesn't really have to be either though I think it's optimal that it is done. Bitcoin is limited to 21 million whole units as is Bitcoin Cash. Litecoin is limited to 84 million whole units. Most cryptocurrencies have a "hard cap" coded into their protocols so what you ask for is already there. Creating a second cryptocurrency alongside a limited first one also is not inflation because the two currencies are distinguishable and not fungible with one another. Hyper competitive freedom of choice should not be mistaken for inflationary pressure. It's quite the opposite.

That said, there are currencies that offer expandable or even elastic money supplies. These aren't compelling to me personally, but I don't think they should be dismissed because there may be some economic use cases for elastic money supplies in some cases. The great thing about this is that the market is entirely open and people are free to choose this currency or that and for whatever reason they like. In fact, there are even cryptos backed by gold and silver as I think about it which further addresses your other concern above. Look at the LODE project as a for instance with a distributed vault system for silver that backs their token.

Bottom line, I think this market is further advanced than you might think. :)
Hi Canadian,
First of all - for the books that you have mentioned (in your comments) - HUGE THANK YOU.

Now as for the points in your comment above, I do agree with you .... but partially. I am very well familiar with the Blockchain technology and the proof of work protocol (on which the Blockchain technology is based). But if you dig in details, you are starting to notice to week spots. Because of the way the protocol is working, when you encounter large amount of transactions, you start noticing delays. Many many people over the world are now complaining that some times transfers are taking several hours and there are even cases where days were taken. You perfectly well know the reason for this - if your transaction is not in the next block that is being solved and attached to the Blockchain, then it goes back to the pool of transactions (Apparently if this happens several times, then your transaction is delayed). So YES you are correct theft and fraud are impossible. But then it is not very convenient to wait for several hours for transaction (Also considering that if all the world adopts this - transactions will be even more). Thus we are losing the efficiency part of the system - being fast and secure. (That is why I said I Agree partially)
I believe the hashgraph technology is better. It is based on the Ghost protocol for redistribution of information - which makes it tens of thousands times faster than the Blockchain technology. Now when it comes to security I am still not 100% convinced that they can guarantee no theft, but they are definitely on the right road. (I am pasting the link for their WhitePaper if you are interested to know more - https://s3.amazonaws.com/hedera-hashgraph/hh-whitepaper-v1.0-180313.pdf ). Cheers
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 13, 2018, 01:10:34 PM
Right Paul, I think you're on the right track in your concerns there. I believe I mentioned some time ago in this thread or the other one that scaling challenges  are what ill kill blockchains if anything does and that presently, blockchains have not been able to scale effectively. Ethereum's persistently impending release of the Casper protocol is one possible solution but until that actually materialized, Ethereum is stuck at 15 transactions per second and Bitcoin is stuck at just 5 or so.

I was initially quite interested in HashGraph as well, but it's prone to sybil attacks and I've not seen any technical answers that address this concern. I don't think HashGraph will be an effective scaling solution.

EOS's use of Delegated Proof of Stake  (simmilar to Lisk) is what I think is presently the most intriguing solution to scaling. Finding a reasonable trade off between extreme security through brute force (proof of work) and delegated market accountability (Delegated Proof of Stake) is I think the most realistic path forward. Ethereum's solution is also very intriguing but I think that Ethereum is adopting a technologist's purist point of view that is not advantageous in the short term.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 13, 2018, 03:56:43 PM
Now as for the points in your comment above, I do agree with you .... but partially. I am very well familiar with the Blockchain technology and the proof of work protocol (on which the Blockchain technology is based). But if you dig in details, you are starting to notice to week spots. Because of the way the protocol is working, when you encounter large amount of transactions, you start noticing delays. Many many people over the world are now complaining that some times transfers are taking several hours and there are even cases where days were taken. You perfectly well know the reason for this - if your transaction is not in the next block that is being solved and attached to the Blockchain, then it goes back to the pool of transactions (Apparently if this happens several times, then your transaction is delayed). So YES you are correct theft and fraud are impossible. But then it is not very convenient to wait for several hours for transaction (Also considering that if all the world adopts this - transactions will be even more). Thus we are losing the efficiency part of the system - being fast and secure. (That is why I said I Agree partially)
I believe the hashgraph technology is better. It is based on the Ghost protocol for redistribution of information - which makes it tens of thousands times faster than the Blockchain technology. Now when it comes to security I am still not 100% convinced that they can guarantee no theft, but they are definitely on the right road. (I am pasting the link for their WhitePaper if you are interested to know more - https://s3.amazonaws.com/hedera-hashgraph/hh-whitepaper-v1.0-180313.pdf ).


Hello, Paul.

Some time ago, I mentioned in this thread, that the upcoming technology of Quantum computing, will make blockchain look like a tricycle, standing next to a Lamborghini; at most, it might even enhance it to a point of common usage.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on April 13, 2018, 05:43:40 PM
But if you dig in details, you are starting to notice to week spots. Because of the way the protocol is working, when you encounter large amount of transactions, you start noticing delays. Many many people over the world are now complaining that some times transfers are taking several hours and there are even cases where days were taken.

When it comes to bank wire transfers it's not much better is it? And it doesn't necessarily come cheap either, depending on where you want to send your money.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 13, 2018, 05:47:10 PM
But if you dig in details, you are starting to notice to week spots. Because of the way the protocol is working, when you encounter large amount of transactions, you start noticing delays. Many many people over the world are now complaining that some times transfers are taking several hours and there are even cases where days were taken.

When it comes to bank wire transfers it's not much better is it? And it doesn't necessarily come cheap either, depending on where you want to send your money.
Yes, it's indeed costly and slow to transact in Bitcoins these days, so you might just as well use the old good wire transfer.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on April 13, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
My comment was actually that wire transfer is also slow and can be costly. Just to make it clear because it can indeed be understood wrong.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 13, 2018, 06:12:58 PM
My comment was actually that wire transfer is also slow and can be costly. Just to make it clear because it can indeed be understood wrong.

While true, the fiat currency you send it in is highly unlikely to lose a substantial portion of its value by the time your recipient receives it, unlike with Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on April 13, 2018, 06:23:28 PM
It goes both ways though. It can also gain a substantial portion while on it's way. But I've seen hyperinflation with my own eyes and it's not funny either. The difference being that with hyperinflation you only lose unless you're lucky enough to have a loan that was not properly protected.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 13, 2018, 06:35:35 PM
My comment was actually that wire transfer is also slow and can be costly. Just to make it clear because it can indeed be understood wrong.

While true, the fiat currency you send it in is highly unlikely to lose a substantial portion of its value by the time your recipient receives it, unlike with Bitcoin.

Gentlemen,  let's stick to the basics.

1- Each cryptocurrency is just a unique number.

2-Anyone with a computer and some knohow can produce an algorithm to produce any series of unique numbers and thus generate a cryptocurrency.

3- As of the end of last year, there were at least 1400 cryptocurrencies floating about, each with its own unique numbers based on it's algorithm.

4- Although each of these cryptocurrencies can generate it's own series of unique numbers, there is an infinite series of numbers which can be generated by an infinite number of Algos.

There is a finite amout of precious metals on earth, a finite number of collector items that can be given an intrinsic value etc. Most important, the world economies are regulated by governmental authorities which will never allow anyone individual to own his own "printing press", else money will lose its value and we would have to revert back to the barter system.

While we are at it, I have a unique number to  sell, I put a lot of hot air producing it, any takers; the bid starts at 1K, USD.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 13, 2018, 06:36:36 PM
It goes both ways though. It can also gain a substantial portion while on it's way. But I've seen hyperinflation with my own eyes and it's not funny either. The difference being that with hyperinflation you only lose unless you're lucky enough to have a loan that was not properly protected.

Then I would say Bitcoin will see no mass adoption unless and until the world's major fiat currencies hyperinflate.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 13, 2018, 09:16:24 PM
Some time ago, I mentioned in this thread, that the upcoming technology of Quantum computing, will make blockchain look like a tricycle, standing next to a Lamborghini; at most, it might even enhance it to a point of common usage.

Quantum computing would stand to make proof of work blockchains extremely robust. It would not degrade their value but instead enhance their values significantly. Why am I not surprised that you have no idea how these things work?

That said, Proof of Work may soon become entirely obsolete within the blockchain space and existing blockchains will likely transition away from it if Proof of Stake proves to be deployable into the marketplace as it looks to be.

But if you dig in details, you are starting to notice to week spots. Because of the way the protocol is working, when you encounter large amount of transactions, you start noticing delays. Many many people over the world are now complaining that some times transfers are taking several hours and there are even cases where days were taken.

When it comes to bank wire transfers it's not much better is it? And it doesn't necessarily come cheap either, depending on where you want to send your money.
Yes, it's indeed costly and slow to transact in Bitcoins these days, so you might just as well use the old good wire transfer.

I prefer sending with cryptocurrencies because it's cheap and it's much faster than wire transfers. Using a conversion agent, I don't have to worry about volatility risk if I want to indeed avoid that risk. I also don't have to worry about the bank halting a wire to investigate for a week to determine that I am in fact not a drug lord.

Not to say that bank wires aren't useful. They are and they're probably better for most users of money than cryptocurrencies. I feel like some of you in this thread intend on dismissing crypto because it's just not as big as the banking system yet which perplexes me. Amazon wasn't as big as Chapters at one point after all.

The "weak spots" noted here aren't weak spots. They're actively developed qualities that are being improved over time. Some of these improvements are significant leaps forward and I think that if you consider those leaps forward as at all realistic, then this technology should be compelling. I mean, Bitcoin in particular experiences delays and fee increases specifically because demand for the network becomes high...which seems like a pretty good problem to have to me.

It goes both ways though. It can also gain a substantial portion while on it's way. But I've seen hyperinflation with my own eyes and it's not funny either. The difference being that with hyperinflation you only lose unless you're lucky enough to have a loan that was not properly protected.

Then I would say Bitcoin will see no mass adoption unless and until the world's major fiat currencies hyperinflate.

It's a mathematical certainty. It is one significant factor that drives crypto adoption even when it's not at a disastrous level as people will begin to notice that over periods of time, a single Bitcoin gains more and more and more purchasing power. It's a relatively simple observation that can only be ignored for so long.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 13, 2018, 10:45:03 PM
Some time ago, I mentioned in this thread, that the upcoming technology of Quantum computing, will make blockchain look like a tricycle, standing next to a Lamborghini; at most, it might even enhance it to a point of common usage.

it might even enhance it to a point of common usage

Why am I not surprised that you have trouble reading the English language? Your ignorance of such stands out, especially about blockchain; keep reading and try to "understand" it.



Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 13, 2018, 10:56:59 PM
Apologies for my misinterpretation.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 14, 2018, 02:40:27 AM
Apologies for my misinterpretation.


 Let me lay to rest for you, your ignorance of my technological know-how by giving you some more information about me other than my age which you have aggressively used to viciously attack me, especially about my ignorance of blockchain technology:

1- I know how to code in at least 3 high-level computer languages.

2- When I learned my first "then" high-level language (now obsolete ) it was Fortran for engineering and Cobol for business, today,  I use such higher languages a C++, Java and the rest.

3- I taught computer literacy at both Concordia and Mc Gill  University in  Montreal.

4- I was the first in North America to devise a system of teaching computer skills at the elementary school level.


So while you are fascinated and your ego inflated to the bursting point because you have bought some Bitcoins or read a book or two about the technology, you have a long way to catch up to me. But keep on reading more and insulting less. Your continued mention that I called you names in a number of PM. messages is a farce. I did do so but that is comparable to what you did as well but the basic issue is that YOU started all of this. If you do not agree to it, I will gladly spend the time to dig up all of the messages of how this started and place them in chronological order to show who started the insults first. I am a HumbleTrader but not a sheep for you to step on with your venom; I will fight back and you will be sorry. I have come on this site, apologized to you and you have continued to take jabs at me, Stop it or else!

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: CanadianPsycho on April 14, 2018, 04:44:28 AM
Uh huh. "He started it". Right right. I apologize for my ageism as well I suppose.

Back on topic now perhaps?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 14, 2018, 07:13:30 AM
Uh huh. "He started it". Right right. I apologize for my ageism as well I suppose.

Back on topic now perhaps?

This is his most recent, PM. To me as of the hour posted:


Post history
« Sent to: Humble Trader's Fx on: Today at 04:51:23 AM »

    Reply
    Quote
    Delete

You know, I've had about enough of your nonsense. You are clearly a bully and you don't wish to lose face. You don't care about fair, you care about winning and dominating opponents in discussions. You're a pig headed sort who demands that other appear inferior in public compared to you.

When you accused me of being a secret vendor for a product on this forum, I remember that you wanted me to apologize to you for something in public, but that you did not also want to then apologize in reciprocal fashion for your attacks on my character. That showed me (in addition to everything else) just how petty and unreasonable you are. It's why I have no respect for you. You're a completely unreasonable jerk to me so don't be surprised that i don't read anything you say as remotely genuine. Your character to me is completely morally bankrupt.



He continues to hide behind his BS: I will NOT take his insults anymore. He continues to openly call me names and I challenge anyone here to go back to any series of posts and see who CONTINUOUSLY out of the blue, attacks and slanders me.

By his own admission here in the PM, as is the case of this most recent series of posts, "don't be surprised that i don't read anything you say",, yet in each and every case he goes out of his way, without even reading my posts to call me names because of his paranoia. He wants fairness when he controls the switches to this forum and can delete posts of mine not in his favor.

He speaks of things I have PMed him in the past and yet I do not mention a thing about what he PM'd me as well, because I have honor which means that if you PM (Private message someone, it means something), I warned him in advance that I too will post his backdoor jabs from now on, since Donna has decided its acceptable, which I don't agree. And none of this would have reached the public if this coward had not had the O.K, to say one thing in public, publish a selection of my P.M's and none of his; it's now open season, no more hiding wimp!

I am much older than him, true, but as old as I am, I have challenged this coward to a physical match in an arena anywhere in the world! I am fed up with his hiding behind Donna's skirts and/or this forum. I am calling you out you wimp, "put up or SHUT UP"!

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 14, 2018, 08:14:21 AM
Just sue each other, or something. I want this thread back on topic.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: donnaforex on April 14, 2018, 12:52:19 PM
Can we just stop this? CP has asked not to be a moderator anymore, so he no longer is. There has been no abuse of his powers that i can find, and we do have logs of mod actions.

No more posts about other members please. Issues to come to me personally via PM.

Posts from now regarding anything other than the subject (bitcoin in this case) will be removed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 14, 2018, 10:21:55 PM
Back to Bitcoin.

Ever since I came across the Bitcoin code and it's libraries I have been suspicious about it's ifrastucture.I some cases it seems straight forward and in others quite complex. My theory and it's only my conspiracy mind thinking out load, is that who ever designed this code ( The CIA, RUSSIAN MAFIA, or a good Samaritan etchad an alternative motive for  it's creation.
My theory is that when the last coin is minted, "poof", the entire directory or ledger, will itself just vanish and someone will have the laughter of the century.  I realise all this is hypothetical but I have yet to come across any reputable computer scientist without any investment interest in BT, who will stake their profession that this theory of mine will not take place. I guess we will have to wait until the last coin is minted and the fat lady sings.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 14, 2018, 10:35:49 PM
Well, John McAfee is a reputable computer scientist and he promised to consume his penis if Bitcoin doesn't hit 1 million USD per unit in some years, so there.

How would Bitcoin's distributed ledger entirely disappear? Become disused for a lack of interest due to miners abandoning it - yes, possibly - but entirely vanish? How?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 14, 2018, 11:05:47 PM
Well, John McAfee is a reputable computer scientist and he promised to consume his penis if Bitcoin doesn't hit 1 million USD per unit in some years, so there.

How would Bitcoin's distributed ledger entirely disappear? Become disused for a lack of interest due to miners abandoning it - yes, possibly - but entirely vanish? How?

Well, like I said, this is a wild theory and maybe out on left field but I have seen a lot of computer code and what seems to be benign cod, turn into a nightmare; that is how hackers manage to exploit innocent looking code into something high-level sophisticated malware. Yes, BT code is in the public domain and true, one can run simulations but that is like using backtests to test a bot, it's never the real world.

To give you a very simplified example: The human DNA is composed of four basic units or code, but these basic units of life create sophisticated entities like ourselves and more. The ledger itself and I am not saying that is the case, could be turned into a sophisticated program itself which when activated by the last crypto code could be turned into a destruct sequence (Just an example, and one which may be far off, only used as an example.)

Let's just leave it for now and hope that it's just a conspiracy theory that one posted in a far, far away land of DonnaFx and like I said: "until the fat lady sings or not."

By the way, Pipbuster, is John McAfee, in anyway shape or form an investor in BT; I did say, "any reputable computer scientist without any investment interest in BT,"

Thanks for taking note of my theory and responding with your query.

Just a final note: I predict that John McAfee will never have the chance to eat it, because if and ever BT does reach 1 million, he will not have anything left to eat because he will be six feet under or up in smoke, whichever way he chooses to go, just like BT.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 14, 2018, 11:59:51 PM
My vision is far more pragmatic: Bitcoin is likely to be abandoned as derelict for a "better cryptocurrency" after it's been all mined out. Between both selling coins plus getting transaction fees on one hand and getting only transaction fees on the other hand, miners will sure choose the former and invest generously in a "better cryptocurrency" hype.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 15, 2018, 12:32:57 AM
My vision is far more pragmatic: Bitcoin is likely to be abandoned as derelict for a "better cryptocurrency" after it's been all mined out. Between both selling coins plus getting transaction fees on one hand and getting only transaction fees on the other hand, miners will sure choose the former and invest generously in a "better cryptocurrency" hype.

Nothing to dispute about that. Like the song says, "kai Sera,  Sera,  what will be, will be". I also agree with the absolesence theory you propose, given that technology,  is leaping by leaps and bounds,  especially the advent of every day computer usage of Quantum computers which will be a major tech paradigm shift in computing speeds and security as I have maintained since my earliest of posts here.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 17, 2018, 02:24:09 AM
Has anyone ever seen a "run on the banks"? Emagine what it would be like if such a panic starts with the cryptos like BT!  :'(

Bitcoin investors face long delays cashing out, criticize two B.C. firms

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/bitcoin-investors-face-long-delays-cashing-out-criticize-two-b-c-firms

If an exchange runs out of cash, "real, verified, government sanctioned", cash, what kind of panic would be set off and how will it be stopped when all these poor souls, who are getting poorer by the hour,  try to convert their BT to real money?


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Trunk on April 17, 2018, 06:50:35 PM
Uh huh. "He started it". Right right. I apologize for my ageism as well I suppose.

Back on topic now perhaps?

This is his most recent, PM. To me as of the hour posted:


Post history
« Sent to: Humble Trader's Fx on: Today at 04:51:23 AM »

    Reply
    Quote
    Delete

You know, I've had about enough of your nonsense. You are clearly a bully and you don't wish to lose face. You don't care about fair, you care about winning and dominating opponents in discussions. You're a pig headed sort who demands that other appear inferior in public compared to you.

When you accused me of being a secret vendor for a product on this forum, I remember that you wanted me to apologize to you for something in public, but that you did not also want to then apologize in reciprocal fashion for your attacks on my character. That showed me (in addition to everything else) just how petty and unreasonable you are. It's why I have no respect for you. You're a completely unreasonable jerk to me so don't be surprised that i don't read anything you say as remotely genuine. Your character to me is completely morally bankrupt.



He continues to hide behind his BS: I will NOT take his insults anymore. He continues to openly call me names and I challenge anyone here to go back to any series of posts and see who CONTINUOUSLY out of the blue, attacks and slanders me.

By his own admission here in the PM, as is the case of this most recent series of posts, "don't be surprised that i don't read anything you say",, yet in each and every case he goes out of his way, without even reading my posts to call me names because of his paranoia. He wants fairness when he controls the switches to this forum and can delete posts of mine not in his favor.

He speaks of things I have PMed him in the past and yet I do not mention a thing about what he PM'd me as well, because I have honor which means that if you PM (Private message someone, it means something), I warned him in advance that I too will post his backdoor jabs from now on, since Donna has decided its acceptable, which I don't agree. And none of this would have reached the public if this coward had not had the O.K, to say one thing in public, publish a selection of my P.M's and none of his; it's now open season, no more hiding wimp!

I am much older than him, true, but as old as I am, I have challenged this coward to a physical match in an arena anywhere in the world! I am fed up with his hiding behind Donna's skirts and/or this forum. I am calling you out you wimp, "put up or SHUT UP"!

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Replying pointless attacks is wasting your time? Do you think you deserve wasting your life to make sure you reasoned into your position some anonymous guy?

To the topic: Why is bitcoin rising now? Any guesses?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 18, 2018, 02:53:50 AM
Sorry, Trunk, I omitted to share with you my point of view to your second query, why Bitcoin is rising now.

1- I don't see how it is rising, for the past few weeks it has made some minute gains but nothing of substance.

2- As I have pointed out elsewhere, there are people out there, especially miners, who for little investment, mine additional coins at no or little cost to them, desperately marketing their wear, trying to influence the "true market" and to deceive the gullible that BT will rise. You might expect the price to fall as more of the units enter the market but not when there are buyers out there willing to sacrifice or risk part of the wealth they have accumulated when they purchased at very low prices, sold BT when they were near 20k and now have the cash to re-enter the market thinking that the price has bottomed out. As BT continues to stagnate and issues in exchanges become more frequent, these same buyers/sellers will begin to see the downhill and will soon thereafter rush to sell. But all this is a theory on my part trying to explain my position, I am sure that others on the other side of the spectrum, can offer their own "positive" theories. Whatever does take place, I believe, the major announcements about BT are just about to enter the fray; especially when Governmental authorities begin to express their views about such through legislation.

Let's wait and see, what happens. I do hope that the average joe, speculating to make a buck does not get hurt by this mania.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on April 18, 2018, 09:09:08 AM
So tax time has arrived in USA. I wonder how this will play out.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-crypto-traders-refuse-to-pay-taxes-survey-finds-2018-04-17

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on April 18, 2018, 04:11:04 PM
So tax time has arrived in USA. I wonder how this will play out.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-crypto-traders-refuse-to-pay-taxes-survey-finds-2018-04-17
Many thanks for the link. It is very helpfull
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 18, 2018, 06:06:48 PM
So tax  time has arrived in USA. I wonder how this will play out.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-crypto-traders-refuse-to-pay-taxes-survey-finds-2018-04-17
Many thanks for the link. It is very helpfull

Fake news, I say: There is no way that cryptocurrency traders would want to evade paying their fair share of taxes. They are the most socially responsible citizens ,"bar none"! They have nothing to hide, "crypto"? ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on April 18, 2018, 07:11:45 PM
And every one of your neighbors is an upstanding tax paying citizen. Don't be silly. You're totally focused on this crypto thing but at the same time people are selling eggs, fixing plumbing, teaching children to just name a few and a lot of that is happening with no taxes payed. And there are no cryptos involved.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 18, 2018, 07:26:19 PM
And every one of your neighbors is an upstanding tax paying citizen. Don't be silly. You're totally focused on this crypto thing but at the same time people are selling eggs, fixing plumbing, teaching children to just name a few and a lot of that is happening with no taxes payed. And there are no cryptos involved.

I am somewhat confused at what your point is, are you discussing the revelations of the article discussed here or about chickens, children and the lot of society, trying to make the point that by large, most taxpayers are tax evaders?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-crypto-traders-refuse-to-pay-taxes-survey-finds-2018-04-17

Eagerly waiting for your clarity of post.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: primi on April 18, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
That's exactly my point, lots of taxpayers are tax evaders even when there is no crypto involved. To make matters worse, it's not only ordinary people, tax evading is everywhere from top to bottom and it's usually done with government issued money. It only makes sense for transactions involving crypto to be no different.

https://youtu.be/9z70BKwfSUA?t=195
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 18, 2018, 10:42:45 PM
That's exactly my point, lots of taxpayers are tax evaders even when there is no crypto involved. To make matters worse, it's not only ordinary people, tax evading is everywhere from top to bottom and it's usually done with government issued money. It only makes sense for transactions involving crypto to be no different.

https://youtu.be/9z70BKwfSUA?t=195


I don't know where you get your information and which country you are talking about. Are you saying that 46% of people are tax evaders like crypto crooks talked about in the article?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-of-crypto-traders-refuse-to-pay-taxes-survey-finds-2018-04-17

Most progressive and developed economies become such because it's citizenry are educated to understand that paying one's taxes is to the benefit of all. For example (not that the US is considered that progressive as most Scandinavian countries ) In the USA, there were 75,836 cases of tax fraud in 2014. Of those cases, more than 700 people were sentenced, with a median tax collection of $167,000 per person.
76 thousand cases out of a population of 326 million inhabitants, that's less than 2%. I don't think your premise is representative of the majority of citizens out there or comes even close to crypto crooks. In more progressive countries,  tax evasion is even less.

Since I assume you are in the UK, you might be interested to learn that in the fiscal year 2014–15, total government revenue was forecast to be £648 billion of that,  tax evasion and tax avoidance cost the government £34 billion a year or at most 5%, perhaps more so now with the crypto crooks, having come about.

Since you seem to get your information from Utube, you might want to look at the following video which may not be as humorous as yours but tax avoidance and tax evasion is not a norm of a healthy society, nor a joke: Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/bLrESYDcuSk


Please let me see your stats to support your premise.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: pipsbuster on April 19, 2018, 01:31:31 AM
People pay taxes in the US for fear of a rough imprisonment with the minorities in privately-run jails, not because it's a progressive society of any sort, lol. If you happen to have no medical coverage there, you're ought to die in pain much to the establishment's joy - so much for the progress. What you do get is one of the world's strongest invading military forces that, nonetheless, invade to the establishment's benefit rather than your own.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on April 19, 2018, 05:14:58 AM
In raising the tax issue I was not so much concerned as to whether crypto traders were any different to forex traders when it comes to paying tax on earnings.

But more as to the fact that crypto is treated differently to forex earnings. Thus

"Because bitcoin BTC, +0.04% and other cryptocurrencies are seen as property by the U.S. government, capital-gains taxes apply to every transaction made. “It can be very tedious,” Phillips said. “I call it the coffee problem: Even if you were just buying a cup of coffee in bitcoin you would have to report every sale of bitcoin.”

So presumably if a crypto trader made a (capital) loss, that could reduce their taxable income and hence reduce tax to be paid? I am not sure how capital losses are treated under USA tax laws.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 19, 2018, 10:36:31 AM
People pay taxes in the US for fear of a rough imprisonment with the minorities in privately-run jails, not because it's a progressive society of any sort, lol. If you happen to have no medical coverage there, you're ought to die in pain much to the establishment's joy - so much for the progress. What you do get is one of the world's strongest invading military forces that, nonetheless, invade to the establishment's benefit rather than your own.

Hello, pipbuster.

I agree with you about the US, that is why I emphasized, " (not that the US is considered that progressive as most Scandinavian countries )": I live in Canada, where we have free medical coverage and other socially supportive programs to help the most vulnerable. As to your second point about militarism, the US "empire", is like all empires before it be it England, France or Denmark etc. They all exploited other peoples of other lands, to enhance their own wealth by bullying others. But all in all,  I am hopeful that as a human race, we are "evolving" into a more rational, empathetic species and the future is hopeful if we can surpass the greatest threat of all; need I mention his name?

Have a peaceful day, and pay your taxes.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: diyforexskills on April 20, 2018, 07:45:52 AM
This looks like a serious attempt to use blockchain with tokens/crypto for the logistics industry. Make sense to me insofar as I understand the blockchain architecture.

https://www.cargochainsolutions.io/?7765#sec5
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 20, 2018, 10:51:26 AM
This looks like a serious attempt to use blockchain with tokens/crypto for the logistics industry. Make sense to me insofar as I understand the blockchain architecture.

https://www.cargochainsolutions.io/?7765#sec5

As I have maintained all along here, blockchain technology is a great technological innovation, that will/is being used in the banking industry and elsewhere, however, any such technology which is used to evade the banking/governmental authority, will not be allowed.

In the fx industry, we all know that risk is directly related to reward, and vis-a-versa. I can try to smuggle a kilo of cocaine at great reward but if caught, I risk paying a great price for my freedom. No entity that wants to be part of our established monetary exchange system, will be allowed to work in the shadows of "crypto".


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 02, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
CryptoUK, a self-regulatory organization for companies involved with cryptocurrencies, whose members include Coinbase, CEX.IO, CoinFloor and others,   has allegedly contacted several Members of Parliament (MPs) with a proposal to implement regulation in the sphere.   (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/uk-crypto-association-calls-for-FCA-regulation)

The request is for the financial Conduct Authority (FCA) to start overseeing what we have frequently called “entry level” companies – exchanges accepting fiat currencies payments for the purchase of cryprocurrencies. According to the proposal, this should be done under the existing peer-to-peer finance legislation and not the rules applies for financial market intermediaries.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Paul.Trafford on May 03, 2018, 10:22:57 AM
CryptoUK, a self-regulatory organization for companies involved with cryptocurrencies, whose members include Coinbase, CEX.IO, CoinFloor and others,   has allegedly contacted several Members of Parliament (MPs) with a proposal to implement regulation in the sphere.   (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/uk-crypto-association-calls-for-FCA-regulation)

The request is for the financial Conduct Authority (FCA) to start overseeing what we have frequently called “entry level” companies – exchanges accepting fiat currencies payments for the purchase of cryprocurrencies. According to the proposal, this should be done under the existing peer-to-peer finance legislation and not the rules applies for financial market intermediaries.
Eliza truly a valuable information. Many thanks for this article!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 03, 2018, 10:25:52 AM
And what does he know, lol  ;)

Warren Buffett explains one thing people still don't understand about bitcoin

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/01/warren-buffett-bitcoin-isnt-an-investment.html

I guess the final nail in this coffin is the argument had in this forum by "experts" that  BT has "intrinsic" value:

"The idea that it has some huge intrinsic value is just a joke in my view," Buffett said.

Read on, but then again, what does Buffet know or Jamie Dimo?  ;)

Jamie Dimon claims cryptocurrency is only fit for use by drug dealers, murderers and people living in North Korea

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Benjamin7 on May 18, 2018, 02:35:59 PM
The expectations are same as in the previous year that bitcoin will gain momentum again at the end of 2018. I am still holding my position related to my wallet as I believe in the bright future of the bitcoin. What do you people think in this regard?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 18, 2018, 03:41:42 PM
The expectations are same as in the previous year that bitcoin will gain momentum again at the end of 2018. I am still holding my position related to my wallet as I believe in the bright future of the bitcoin. What do you people think in this regard?

Bedjamin7, I like a man who puts their money where their mouth is; the current price of BCT is $8,058.60. It would be nice if your "wish" came true; we will all applaud for you. Can you tell us at what price you got in?

In the meantime how about reading the latest, "predictions" on BTC.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-18/crypto-bull-tom-lee-owns-up-after-bitcoin-prediction-goes-awry



Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 19, 2018, 12:29:03 PM
Last year I saw some predictions that Bitcoin could rally to 200,000 USD, which I thought to be quite outrageous. I find them even more so now, to be honest.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion - U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipul
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2018, 09:33:47 AM
And now, the band is ready to play the symphony, take to the exit(s)!


U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe


Take note: Current price as of 8:43:11 AM, Thursday, May 24, 2018, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) +0000 UT

  $7,393.74 -1.45% 


https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/btc/overview/USD


Regards,
HumbleTrader




Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 24, 2018, 01:03:43 PM
Time will tell what they'll find. I wonder how long it'll take to conclude the investigation.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2018, 01:29:28 PM
Time will tell what they'll find. I wonder how long it'll take to conclude the investigation.

I think the title says it all; "Bitcoin Price Manipulation".

Have you ever wondered how and why all these Web sites have popped up pushing BTC and other "hot air", cryptos, and who profits from their marketing?


Regards,
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion - U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipul
Post by: Ed Joshue on September 11, 2018, 08:21:13 AM
And now, the band is ready to play the symphony, take to the exit(s)!


U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe


Take note: Current price as of 8:43:11 AM, Thursday, May 24, 2018, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) +0000 UT

  $7,393.74 -1.45% 


https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/btc/overview/USD


Regards,
HumbleTrader


And now 11.09 and bitcoin costs 6320$. But I heard from Amarkets analyst soon bitcoin will grow up and cost about 20-25k$
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion - U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipul
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 11, 2018, 11:13:29 AM
And now, the band is ready to play the symphony, take to the exit(s)!


U.S. Launches Criminal Probe into Bitcoin Price Manipulation


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-24/bitcoin-manipulation-is-said-to-be-focus-of-u-s-criminal-probe


Take note: Current price as of 8:43:11 AM, Thursday, May 24, 2018, Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) +0000 UT

  $7,393.74 -1.45% 


https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/btc/overview/USD


Regards,
HumbleTrader


And now 11.09 and bitcoin costs 6320$. But I heard from Amarkets analyst soon bitcoin will grow up and cost about 20-25k$

Yup; there are a lot of "echos" out there about what you hear, must be the dying or the dead. These rumors are spread by those looking to sell their BTC at a loss and get out before they are worthless.

Keep out!

Price is now 6,244$ USD

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 12, 2018, 11:16:04 AM
cryptocurrencies

Crypto’s 80% Plunge Is Now Worse Than the Dot-Com Crash



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-12/crypto-s-crash-just-surpassed-dot-com-levels-as-losses-reach-80


The Great Crypto Crash of 2018: Cryptocurrency's 80% plunge is now worse than the dot-com crash



https://business.financialpost.com/technology/blockchain/cryptos-80-plunge-is-now-worse-than-the-dot-com-crash




Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 13, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
In a landmark ruling a judge in Brooklyn has accepted a criminal case that treats an initial coin offering (ICO) as a type of security. (https://theforexreview.com/2018/09/12/us-judge-rules-initial-coin-offerings-are-securities/)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: y5nitro on October 26, 2018, 07:08:05 PM
I have a firm stance that you should keep hold of your Bitcoin as long as you can. I know that this year has not been good for Bitcoin but the price will explode in the upcoming fiscal year. Bitcoin has changed the entire financial system and it will create more magic in the future.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 26, 2018, 07:18:21 PM
I have a firm stance that you should keep hold of your Bitcoin as long as you can. I know that this year has not been good for Bitcoin but the price will explode in the upcoming fiscal year. Bitcoin has changed the entire financial system and it will create more magic in the future.


Nice to know that there are people out there who own BTC, believe in magic and can look into a crystal ball and forecast the future"price will explode in the upcoming fiscal year.": At least your prediction does not wager any loss on "your part - or part of you", like John McAfee; he puts his money where his mouth is, or should I say,  his dick?:-[

http://www.willjohnmcafeeeathisdickontv.com/


Please come back "next year" only 4 months away and update us on your forecast and your gains, so we can celebrate your success.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

1 Bitcoin equals
6,406.01 United States Dollar
Oct. 26, 6:25 p.m. UTC
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on October 28, 2018, 06:51:00 AM
I have a firm stance that you should keep hold of your Bitcoin as long as you can. I know that this year has not been good for Bitcoin but the price will explode in the upcoming fiscal year. Bitcoin has changed the entire financial system and it will create more magic in the future.


Nice to know that there are people out there who own BTC, believe in magic and can look into a crystal ball and forecast the future"price will explode in the upcoming fiscal year.": At least your prediction does not wager any loss on "your part - or part of you", like John McAfee; he puts his money where his mouth is, or should I say,  his dick?:-[

http://www.willjohnmcafeeeathisdickontv.com/


Please come back "next year" only 4 months away and update us on your forecast and your gains, so we can celebrate your success.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

1 Bitcoin equals
6,406.01 United States Dollar
Oct. 26, 6:25 p.m. UTC

What gains? BTC stuck at current levels and there is no major catalyst foreseeable which can launch second wave of longs. Ponzi scheme can never becomes successful twice.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 30, 2018, 02:22:25 PM
A small Canadian crypto exchange MapleChange twitted on Sunday that its servers have been hacked and customer funds in the amount of 913 Bitcoins ( 6 million USD) are lost. (https://theforexreview.com/2018/10/29/913-bitcoin-stolen-form-canadian-crypto-exchange-maplechange/)

Some market analysts, however, question the credibility of MapleChange version of events and claim this to be an “exit scam”.

“Due to a bug, some people have managed to withdraw all the funds from our exchange. We are in the process of a thorough investigation for this. We are extremely sorry that it has come to end like this. Until the investigation is over, we cannot refund anything”, MapleChange said onTwitter.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: hardforex on November 01, 2018, 09:12:43 AM
Do you still keep Bitcoin? All bitcoin-based ponzischeme companies I know went bankrupt.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 07, 2018, 01:08:38 PM
The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) considers banning altogether the sale of crypto derivatives such as CFDs on Bitcoin to retail clients, reveals the Cryptoasset Taskforce report. 

This is a report on the UK’s policy and regulatory approach to crypto assets, drafted by the HM Treasury, the Bank of England and the FCA. Whilst the Taskforce Report recognizes that cryptoassets have the potential to bring benefits to markets, companies and retail investors, there are a number of different considerable risks associated with these financial products.

In order to mitigate these risks, the Taskforce has committed to a number of actions, including consulting on a potential ban of the sale of derivatives referencing certain types of crypto assets (including CFDs, options, futures and transferable securities) to retail consumers. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/UK-FCA-mulls-banning-crypto-derivatives)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on November 12, 2018, 10:39:50 AM
What about crypto exchanges will they be opened for UK traders? their ban concerns only derivate crypto assets not currencies itself right?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 14, 2018, 08:23:51 PM

bitcoin fell into the abyss today, gone are all support levels................

lots o dreams gone up in smoke i am sure.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 14, 2018, 11:35:06 PM

bitcoin fell into the abyss today, gone are all support levels................

lots o dreams gone up in smoke i am sure.

Hello, reinerh.

The key word in your statement is "smoke": What are these  BTC investors smoking?
The environment is better with less pollution, given that the mining of BTC and others such cryptos  is responsible for a huge amount of greenhouse heat pollution and John McAfee ( https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3022195/john-mcafee-will-eat-his-own-penis-if-bitcoin-doesnt-go-above-usd1m-by-2020 ), is one step closer to eating his dick; or has he been talking to Trump about"fake news" when everything that comes out of his mouth is fake. LOL  ;)


1 Bitcoin equals
5,440.77 United States Dollar
Nov. 15, 3:30 p.m. UTC

Regards,
HumbleTrader

https://youtu.be/_JeBDJ8wY8s
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 15, 2018, 01:24:55 PM
The environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining is really quite shocking when you first learn about it. I could hardly believe it the first time I heard about it, but it is something that needs to be taken into consideration, and yet so few people do.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 15, 2018, 02:36:52 PM
The environmental impact of cryptocurrency mining is really quite shocking when you first learn about it. I could hardly believe it the first time I heard about it, but it is something that needs to be taken into consideration, and yet so few people do.

so true, the electricity burned is enormous, that alone is a joke.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Megabot on November 15, 2018, 03:47:10 PM
Guys, bitcoin is widely accepted as a currency at many physical shops
And online retailers. Even a lot more now than it ever did 2 years ago.

So how can you assume the complete evaporation of an accepted currency?

Bitcoin is over valued yes. But the real value is not zero!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 15, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
Guys, bitcoin is widely accepted as a currency at many physical shops
And online retailers. Even a lot more now than it ever did 2 years ago.

So how can you assume the complete evaporation of an accepted currency?

Bitcoin is over valued yes. But the real value is not zero!

Hello, Megabot Team.

"Accepted currency", is one which is part of the international banking system, anything less is just play-money. The fact that a handful of experimental vendors are willing to accept Crypto's in exchange for an extremely limited number of goods, does not make them (cryptos), "accepted currencies". As to your contention, that a lot more vendors "Even a lot more now than it ever did 2 years ago", that may be true in the first year of the hype but can you list a handful of such "world-wide", who have come online recently; past six months?

A few such dreamers have come and posted on this thread in support for BTC, and each case, has been asked to post how many BTC or other they own, so we can celebrate in their success when such do appreciate because I surmise in 99% of the cases, there are promoters, trying to entice gullible investors in parting with their real  money; to date, no one has volunteered to state how many cryptos they own, will you?  :-X

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 16, 2018, 01:57:00 PM
Physical shops in what country accept Bitcoin, I've never heard of that?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 17, 2018, 03:51:32 PM
cryptocurrencies

Bitcoin Cash Clash Is Costing Billions With No End in Sight



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-16/bitcoin-cash-clash-is-costing-billions-with-no-end-in-sight


cryptocurrencies
I Didn't Sleep Well Last Night:' Analysts Predict Bitcoin Has Further to Fall


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-16/crypto-winter-comes-early-as-bitcoin-slide-spurs-viability-fears 

Bloomberg Intelligence says the drama’s just starting. Analysts predict the price could fall to $1,500


1 Bitcoin equals
5,484.01 United States Dollar
Nov. 17, 3:49 p.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: ethanolmos on November 18, 2018, 12:06:02 PM
In a landmark ruling a judge in Brooklyn has accepted a criminal case that treats an initial coin offering (ICO) as a type of security. (https://theforexreview.com/2018/09/12/us-judge-rules-initial-coin-offerings-are-securities/)
I don't get the general principle behind this. How's the ICO could be a type of security?
ICO is a pretty legit investment model if it's related to some brick-and-mortar functioning business.
Check the MobileGo ICO review ttps://www.crypto-economy.net/en/mobilego-successful-crowdsale-reaching-53-million/ (http://ttps://www.crypto-economy.net/en/mobilego-successful-crowdsale-reaching-53-million/). To cut it short, it's a platform for app developers like appstore or playmarket. But terms there are way better than both aformentioned platforms provide.
I haven't seen a better ICO in ages.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 18, 2018, 02:16:36 PM
In a landmark ruling a judge in Brooklyn has accepted a criminal case that treats an initial coin offering (ICO) as a type of security. (https://theforexreview.com/2018/09/12/us-judge-rules-initial-coin-offerings-are-securities/)
I don't get the general principle behind this. How's the ICO could be a type of security?
ICO is a pretty legit investment model if it's related to some brick-and-mortar functioning business.
Check the MobileGo ICO review ttps://www.crypto-economy.net/en/mobilego-successful-crowdsale-reaching-53-million/ (http://ttps://www.crypto-economy.net/en/mobilego-successful-crowdsale-reaching-53-million/). To cut it short, it's a platform for app developers like appstore or playmarket. But terms there are way better than both aformentioned platforms provide.
I haven't seen a better ICO in ages.

Thanolmos, your link does not seem to work.

a) "Hmm. We’re having trouble finding that site."

b) I gather you have some "expertise" in ICO's, better than the judge involved in this case. ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 19, 2018, 09:05:12 PM
1 Bitcoin equals


1 Bitcoin equals
4,413.99 United States Dollar
Nov. 20, 2:10 p.m. UTC

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 19, 2018, 10:20:28 PM

wow, even falling deeper into the abyss.

4620 a moment ago. dreams being busted left and right.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 22, 2018, 06:40:18 PM

miners going bk, cant pay their electric bill, what a complete joke.

https://www.ncwlife.com/giga-watt-big-plans-bitcoin-mining-facilities-airport-files-chapter-11-bankruptcy/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2018, 01:04:13 AM

wow, even falling deeper into the abyss.

4620 a moment ago. dreams being busted left and right.

I can hear a balloon exploding! All that hot air.  :P

1 Bitcoin equals
4,290.00 United States Dollar
Nov. 23, 1:00 a.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 23, 2018, 01:18:53 AM

i think its gonna blow through 4k very soon..................................

lots o margin calls coming, this is long from over.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 23, 2018, 02:05:01 AM

i think its gonna blow through 4k very soon..................................

lots o margin calls coming, this is long from over.

Going Psycho!

1 Bitcoin equals
4,150.98 United States Dollar
Nov. 23, 2:05 a.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Megabot on November 23, 2018, 08:42:40 AM
At this point even if bitcoin bounces back to 40,000. It wont be interesting. Its a pump and dump operation which can land those responsible in jail if seen in other markets
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: JonasBlixx on November 23, 2018, 10:53:52 AM
ive been selling it since 11k and will down to $100.
biggest fraud of 21st Century.
complete garbage with no credibility or proper governance. $5500 cost to mine a coin, what a load of nonsense.
Talk about blowing up your own planet.
The sooner the nail is in it the better.
A tool designed for gangsters and peddlers that people thought could replace FIAT.
There is no trust in Bitcoin, hence it wont survive in mainstream.
Back to the underground sewers where it belong.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on November 24, 2018, 01:16:34 PM
Finance
Jamie Dimon and Warren Buffett Have the Last Laugh on Bitcoin

Cryptocurrency's economic delusions are unraveling. None of Bitcoin's utopian promises have come to pass, but regulators must stay vigilant.



https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-21/dimon-and-buffett-have-the-last-laugh-on-bitcoin?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=181123&utm_campaign=sharetheview

Enjoy!  :D

1 Bitcoin equals
3,753.00 United States Dollar
Nov. 24, 9:50 p.m. UTC

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on November 24, 2018, 11:02:27 PM

oh baby, touched 3600 already, even more accounts blown.

miners going bankrupt all over the place, they have to dump at all cost. this selling is far from over.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 04, 2018, 02:03:37 PM
The lack investor protection hinders the approval of Bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) said the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) chairman Jay Clayton. (https://theforexreview.com/2018/11/29/sec-the-lack-of-market-surveillance-is-an-obstacle-to-bitcoin-etfs/)

The main concern for Chairaman Claiton remains the fact that cryptocurrencies can still be too easily stolen or manipulated on the so called crypto exchanges. The remarks were made at the Consensus Invest Conference in Manhattan, New York. He added that the problem has to be resolved before SEC would make any move to allow the first Bitcoin ETFs.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 07, 2018, 07:46:05 PM
Now the ICE - bakkt is accumulating. Physical futures with daily options will be available to trade. This is what Starbucks want, so they can hedge against volatility. BTC only started to get to mainstream and you think it's dead :) We can go to 1.5k and still it will be OK. A lot of really conservative investors are buying now. Not to mention that in 2020 mining rewards will be halved, so more demand for BTC. I expect recovery about 2/2 in 2019, when retail miners and others realise this.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 07, 2018, 09:59:35 PM
Now the ICE - bakkt is accumulating. Physical futures with daily options will be available to trade. This is what Starbucks want, so they can hedge against volatility. BTC only started to get to mainstream and you think it's dead :) We can go to 1.5k and still it will be OK. A lot of really conservative investors are buying now. Not to mention that in 2020 mining rewards will be halved, so more demand for BTC. I expect recovery about 2/2 in 2019, when retail miners and others realise this.

What is your source of information opportunity or are you looking for "opportunity" to sell your BTC's. By the way, how many do you own right now at 3,354.56 United States Dollar (as of Dec. 7, 9:54 p.m. UTC ), so we can get back to you and ask you if you are still holding them at half this price? Damn, after three years or more of BTC's, you still can't buy a cup of coffee with BTC?  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 08, 2018, 12:35:16 AM
Now the ICE - bakkt is accumulating. Physical futures with daily options will be available to trade. This is what Starbucks want, so they can hedge against volatility. BTC only started to get to mainstream and you think it's dead :) We can go to 1.5k and still it will be OK. A lot of really conservative investors are buying now. Not to mention that in 2020 mining rewards will be halved, so more demand for BTC. I expect recovery about 2/2 in 2019, when retail miners and others realise this.

What is your source of information opportunity or are you looking for "opportunity" to sell your BTC's. By the way, how many do you own right now at 3,354.56 United States Dollar (as of Dec. 7, 9:54 p.m. UTC ), so we can get back to you and ask you if you are still holding them at half this price? Damn, after three years or more of BTC's, you still can't buy a cup of coffee with BTC?  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Google ICE and BAKKT and you will find plenty of info. My sources are conservative institutional traders. A lot of crypto is moved over the counter and not via exchanges, otherwise you would see price back up and nobody wants that. Not yet... Also I can buy anything I want with crypto. Either via debit card like wirex or directly from retailers who accept crypto and there are a lot in EU. I bought BTC when it was 500 and you won't see that number... Also, BTC is the smallest crypto I own. I do cost average and trade in both directions. Most important is volatility and we have movements of 5-30% per day without leverage...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on December 08, 2018, 07:10:24 AM
ive been selling it since 11k and will down to $100.
biggest fraud of 21st Century.
complete garbage with no credibility or proper governance. $5500 cost to mine a coin, what a load of nonsense.
Talk about blowing up your own planet.
The sooner the nail is in it the better.
A tool designed for gangsters and peddlers that people thought could replace FIAT.
There is no trust in Bitcoin, hence it wont survive in mainstream.
Back to the underground sewers where it belong.

Where did you get the estimate of costs for mining one coin? Average world costs? I think it's cheaper to make them in China
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 08, 2018, 09:36:04 AM
He is just writing nonsense. BTC is already noticed, that is why you have futures. Institutions are buying it and regulators are probing. Swiss has approved ETF and so on... The price falling is mostly due to futures. The peak was December and what happened with gold is nov happening with BTC. https://cryptoiq.co/cme-bitcoin-futures-are-poisoning-crypto
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 08, 2018, 02:21:15 PM
Now the ICE - bakkt is accumulating. Physical futures with daily options will be available to trade. This is what Starbucks want, so they can hedge against volatility. BTC only started to get to mainstream and you think it's dead :) We can go to 1.5k and still it will be OK. A lot of really conservative investors are buying now. Not to mention that in 2020 mining rewards will be halved, so more demand for BTC. I expect recovery about 2/2 in 2019, when retail miners and others realise this.

What is your source of information opportunity or are you looking for "opportunity" to sell your BTC's. By the way, how many do you own right now at 3,354.56 United States Dollar (as of Dec. 7, 9:54 p.m. UTC ), so we can get back to you and ask you if you are still holding them at half this price? Damn, after three years or more of BTC's, you still can't buy a cup of coffee with BTC?  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Google ICE and BAKKT and you will find plenty of info. My sources are conservative institutional traders. A lot of crypto is moved over the counter and not via exchanges, otherwise you would see price back up and nobody wants that. Not yet... Also I can buy anything I want with crypto. Either via debit card like wirex or directly from retailers who accept crypto and there are a lot in EU. I bought BTC when it was 500 and you won't see that number... Also, BTC is the smallest crypto I own. I do cost average and trade in both directions. Most important is volatility and we have movements of 5-30% per day without leverage...


Hello, Opportunis.

I can see you are a man of your words and now that you have revealed that you own all sorts of crypto you certainly have a vested interest to be a crypto promoter; which in itself is not bad, what is bad is when you state things from both sides of your mouth. For instance here you state, " I do cost average and trade in both directions.", and in your post of :

"General Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Discussion
« on: November 27, 2017, 11:43:04 PM » ",
you state:

"I'll take some profits out before holidays. Usually investors cash out close to year end and than it dips. This will be a good buying opportunity if it happens. I also don't short crypto, it's waste of time because one day it goes 20% down and next day it's 50% up so better to be a hodler :)"

It will also be nice if you stated the date you acquired the 500$ BTC, perhaps you have connections to the very few that did at that time, which is good for us to know an "insider". ;)

Best of luck to you as we move forward.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 08, 2018, 02:35:46 PM
Well yes. At that time a lot has changed. 1 year brings a lot of exchanges. Before you couldn't short so easily as nowdays. Crypto so far has been the best for me. In forex it was hard to get 3+% a month. With crypto you can do that without leverage and therefore no margin call. If you use leverage than you need to know that u can lose same as with FX. So if u don't want to daytrade just do cost averaging when u see dips.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Megabot on December 08, 2018, 03:03:35 PM
Well yes. At that time a lot has changed. 1 year brings a lot of exchanges. Before you couldn't short so easily as nowdays. Crypto so far has been the best for me. In forex it was hard to get 3+% a month. With crypto you can do that without leverage and therefore no margin call. If you use leverage than you need to know that u can lose same as with FX. So if u don't want to daytrade just do cost averaging when u see dips.

It's been dipping since almost 20,000, all the way down to 3200!

You must have a pretty amazing strategy to identify a dip in order to make money.

Speaking of which, we are currently at around 3400, which is the low of this current down wave. So my question is: have we 'dipped' yet?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 08, 2018, 04:30:15 PM
Not really, I buy at support sell at 20-30% profit. In case I decide to go short I sell at leverage 1:5 at last known heights/resistance. I.have shorts from 5.5k and will close at 3k. Than I wait. I placed buys at 2k if it goes there.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Varase on December 11, 2018, 07:30:50 AM
My major concern was can I apply technical analysis on crypto market. I was actually too concern that maybe I do not understand well the dynamics behind the price moves and that this market is not very deep, so that price can move outside of technicals. Any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on December 15, 2018, 11:58:12 AM
My major concern was can I apply technical analysis on crypto market. I was actually too concern that maybe I do not understand well the dynamics behind the price moves and that this market is not very deep, so that price can move outside of technicals. Any thoughts on that?

I think you have to turn your attention tor regular fx instruments like currency pairs because crypto market will die soon.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 15, 2018, 12:07:30 PM
My major concern was can I apply technical analysis on crypto market. I was actually too concern that maybe I do not understand well the dynamics behind the price moves and that this market is not very deep, so that price can move outside of technicals. Any thoughts on that?

I think you have to turn your attention tor regular fx instruments like currency pairs because crypto market will die soon.
If you think that, then why don't you go short with max. leverage and ride all the way to 0. You will be the richest person on the planet...

I'm short till 2k then I go long... I'll take profit at 3k area, you never know if it bounces back.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 15, 2018, 12:53:06 PM
My major concern was can I apply technical analysis on crypto market. I was actually too concern that maybe I do not understand well the dynamics behind the price moves and that this market is not very deep, so that price can move outside of technicals. Any thoughts on that?
;)
I think you have to turn your attention tor regular fx instruments like currency pairs because crypto market will die soon.
If you think that, then why don't you go short with max. leverage and ride all the way to 0. You will be the richest person on the planet...

I'm short till 2k then I go long... I'll take profit at 3k area, you never know if it bounces back.

Be extremely careful. Fiat currencies are regulated by laws between players ( cuntries) and to a degree can follow specific patterns based on economies between nations.  Crypto's on the other hand, could be in most part, in the hands of few BIG players who can decide at any time to move the market in the most unexpected ways you can imagine,  despite very solid market analysis.
Los Vegas, perhaps is a better place to waste your Fiat money for a greater thrill. ;)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Megabot on December 15, 2018, 04:20:00 PM
My major concern was can I apply technical analysis on crypto market. I was actually too concern that maybe I do not understand well the dynamics behind the price moves and that this market is not very deep, so that price can move outside of technicals. Any thoughts on that?

I think you have to turn your attention tor regular fx instruments like currency pairs because crypto market will die soon.
If you think that, then why don't you go short with max. leverage and ride all the way to 0. You will be the richest person on the planet...

I'm short till 2k then I go long... I'll take profit at 3k area, you never know if it bounces back.

I think the 2000 would be a nice price to go long, also your suggestion to exit some shorts at 3000 sounds reasonable. Good luck
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Arsssele on December 16, 2018, 09:55:23 AM
I do not think that people have lost interest in buying cryptos, especially Bitcoin. It seams to me that everybody are just sitting and waiting for price to reach some sort of bottom-line to start buying again. What do you think?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 16, 2018, 12:33:02 PM
You think it will actually stop depreciating around the 2,000s?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 16, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Yup around 2k. technically around 1.5K. This is also the bottom line of cost production of 1 BTC. Might go lower to shake weak hands, but as I know institutions are accumulating over the counter. Most joined last year when the price was around 8k area to accumulate for collateral. They will want to push the price up and sell it at some point. I expect crypto recovers around 2020 if no crisis happens. This is still such a small market and the top so far was 0.8 trillion so plenty of room to grow...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 16, 2018, 02:26:44 PM
Yup around 2k. technically around 1.5K. This is also the bottom line of cost production of 1 BTC. Might go lower to shake weak hands, but as I know institutions are accumulating over the counter. Most joined last year when the price was around 8k area to accumulate for collateral. They will want to push the price up and sell it at some point. I expect crypto recovers around 2020 if no crisis happens. This is still such a small market and the top so far was 0.8 trillion so plenty of room to grow...

I don't mean any offense and in fact I follow your posts with interest or I should say, curriocity but I can't help mentioning the humerus reminders of now and then, when the next door neighbor, used to tell my mother's weekly fortune of things to come by reading the coffee grains of her expresso coffee.

As I stated earlier,  I wish your "fortunes", turn out to be true: In this "Trumpian", era,  I guess, when logic and facts are tossed out the window,  such "crypto predictions" have as good as a validity as any other, pie in the sky, forcast.  :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 16, 2018, 05:21:11 PM
Yup around 2k. technically around 1.5K. This is also the bottom line of cost production of 1 BTC. Might go lower to shake weak hands, but as I know institutions are accumulating over the counter. Most joined last year when the price was around 8k area to accumulate for collateral. They will want to push the price up and sell it at some point. I expect crypto recovers around 2020 if no crisis happens. This is still such a small market and the top so far was 0.8 trillion so plenty of room to grow...

I don't mean any offense and in fact I follow your posts with interest or I should say, curriocity but I can't help mentioning the humerus reminders of now and then, when the next door neighbor, used to tell my mother's weekly fortune of things to come by reading the coffee grains of her expresso coffee.

As I stated earlier,  I wish your "fortunes", turn out to be true: In this "Trumpian", era,  I guess, when logic and facts are tossed out the window,  such "crypto predictions" have as good as a validity as any other, pie in the sky, forcast.  :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader


These annoying posts by irreputable news outlets like Bloomberg ( fake news)  ;) are posting such discomforting news for the honest,  law abiding crypto enthusiasts:What is the world coming to when an honest thief can't make an honest and demented living? 😊

Bitcoin ATMs May Be Used to Launder Money
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-bitcoin-atm-money-laundering/?ll_push_args={%22utm_source%22:%22push%22,%22utm_medium%22:%22notification%22}

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on December 16, 2018, 07:07:57 PM
Lol in know for the fact that normal (FIAT) ATM are used for money loundering. And are much cheaper they only charge 1% of funds withdrawn. Also on a side note 99% money laundering is done via banks. You can pick which country from Swiss to Panama...

Regarding technicals it is the same in FX. Nobody can predict anything. But I would say technicals work better in crypto because it is small market and 90% of traders are amateurs who read and learn technicals and act when they see the pattern.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 18, 2018, 01:52:52 PM
And I had no idea fiat ATMs were used for money laundering. Huh, one learns something new every day. I am not surprised though.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on December 21, 2018, 01:23:17 PM
Dead cut bounce, New-Year fake bounce, call it as you want but I won't believe the rally.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 25, 2018, 11:05:35 AM
Dead cut bounce, New-Year fake bounce, call it as you want but I won't believe the rally.

Yes, that rally did not last long at all. We'll soon see a further depreciation.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on January 15, 2019, 01:17:29 PM
Dead cut bounce, New-Year fake bounce, call it as you want but I won't believe the rally.

Yes, that rally did not last long at all. We'll soon see a further depreciation.

I sold 1 btcusd contract with Hotforex looking for a squeeze to 2000 per btc, this gonna be one of the last good trades I guess.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 28, 2019, 12:59:13 PM
The cryptocurrency exchange Cryptopia got hacked recently and the hackers made off with 16 million USD. (https://theforexreview.com/2019/01/25/16-million-usd-of-crypto-coins-stolen-from-the-new-zealand-based-cryptopia/) What is more, the hack and theft happened over the course of five days and apparently the exchange staff knew about it and did nothing. This is not how a mainstream business should behave when hacked.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 04, 2019, 12:57:27 PM
Sudden death of cryptocurrency leader sends Quadriga into tailspin, panicking clients
$190 Million in Crypto Gone Forever, How Canada’s Biggest Bitcoin Exchange Lost it All



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quadrigo-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-exchange-gerald-cotten-death-india-1.5002955

https://www.ccn.com/190m-gone-how-canada-biggest-bitcoin-exchange-lost-it


1 Bitcoin equals
3,405.02 United States Dollar
Feb. 4, 12:54 p.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on February 07, 2019, 07:01:09 PM
Sudden death of cryptocurrency leader sends Quadriga into tailspin, panicking clients
$190 Million in Crypto Gone Forever, How Canada’s Biggest Bitcoin Exchange Lost it All



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quadrigo-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-exchange-gerald-cotten-death-india-1.5002955

https://www.ccn.com/190m-gone-how-canada-biggest-bitcoin-exchange-lost-it


1 Bitcoin equals
3,405.02 United States Dollar
Feb. 4, 12:54 p.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader


Lol, this guy was terminally ill and ran cryptoexchange. I wonder how this information continued to be unknown by traders.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 07, 2019, 07:47:43 PM
Sudden death of cryptocurrency leader sends Quadriga into tailspin, panicking clients
$190 Million in Crypto Gone Forever, How Canada’s Biggest Bitcoin Exchange Lost it All



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/quadrigo-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-exchange-gerald-cotten-death-india-1.5002955

https://www.ccn.com/190m-gone-how-canada-biggest-bitcoin-exchange-lost-it


1 Bitcoin equals
3,405.02 United States Dollar
Feb. 4, 12:54 p.m. UTC


Regards,
HumbleTrader


Lol, this guy was terminally ill and ran cryptoexchange. I wonder how this information continued to be unknown by traders.


I guess they were "drunk"? 😜


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 07, 2019, 11:04:16 PM
Bitcoin (BTC) Trades Heavy and May Move Lower After ETF Withdrawal

The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) yesterday revealed that an application from the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) for a Bitcoin ETF had been pulled. The action was seen due to the ongoing US government shutdown which may have issued an automatic denial of the application, along with fears that the SEC may still not be comfortable with the idea of a cryptocurrency-based ETF. It now seems highly unlikely that there will be a Bitcoin ETF granted in Q1 2019 at the very earliest, if at all.


https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/market_alert/2019/01/24/Bitcoin-BTC-Price-Left-Hanging-After-ETF-Application-Pulled.html



1 Bitcoin equals
3,363.69 United States Dollar
Feb. 7, 10:59 p.m. UTC ·

Regards,
HunbkeTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: donbon2 on February 07, 2019, 11:07:05 PM
I just believe it is going to 800-1000 and when it gets there it will sit there simply because there are some crappy countries around the world where it is better to have BTC than local currencies - and the diehard crypto holders will never sell so there is some floor at lower prices.

not sure what the miners do I guess they will figure something out
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 07, 2019, 11:29:17 PM
I just believe it is going to 800-1000 and when it gets there it will sit there simply because there are some crappy countries around the world where it is better to have BTC than local currencies - and the diehard crypto holders will never sell so there is some floor at lower prices.

not sure what the miners do I guess they will figure something out

I think you might have a point but what if the exchanges disappear, how will they be able to convert to fiat currencies to buy bread?  :(

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: donbon2 on February 07, 2019, 11:44:02 PM
exchanges will automate to lower costs - there will be fewer transactions anyway - staff will be cut

I think the real problem is the electricity this whole thing burns through -- something new will come along in a few years -- too many smart tech guys for it not to happen
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 08, 2019, 01:46:23 AM
exchanges will automate to lower costs - there will be fewer transactions anyway - staff will be cut

I think the real problem is the electricity this whole thing burns through -- something new will come along in a few years -- too many smart tech guys for it not to happen

Perhaps but nothing which is out of governmental regulations. The state is too powerful and those in control will never allow their control to wain. 8)     

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 08, 2019, 09:06:00 AM
I just believe it is going to 800-1000 and when it gets there it will sit there simply because there are some crappy countries around the world where it is better to have BTC than local currencies - and the diehard crypto holders will never sell so there is some floor at lower prices.

not sure what the miners do I guess they will figure something out

I think you might have a point but what if the exchanges disappear, how will they be able to convert to fiat currencies to buy bread?  :(

Regards,
HumbleTrader
You have p2p and DCEX - decentralised exchanges can't be shut down even if goverments want to...

On a side note regulated brokers add crypto pairs. Kraken is offering regulated futures now, more and more institutions going into crypto now. Seems contradictory to what retail folk is reading.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 08, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
I just believe it is going to 800-1000 and when it gets there it will sit there simply because there are some crappy countries around the world where it is better to have BTC than local currencies - and the diehard crypto holders will never sell so there is some floor at lower prices.

not sure what the miners do I guess they will figure something out

I think you might have a point but what if the exchanges disappear, how will they be able to convert to fiat currencies to buy bread?  :(

Regards,
HumbleTrader
You have p2p and DCEX - decentralised exchanges can't be shut down even if goverments want to...

On a side note regulated brokers add crypto pairs. Kraken is offering regulated futures now, more and more institutions going into crypto now. Seems contradictory to what retail folk is reading.

Good to know we have someone knowledgeable in the field: Does this mean that those people in Canada have nothing to worry about; they can just p2p exchange their BTC for fiat currencies and go to sleep rested tonight? Perhaps you can come to their rescue. ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 08, 2019, 07:35:33 PM
 Nope, they trusted centralised exchange so they gave their acces to them. With DCEX u keep the private key, so nobody has acces except those who own private key. In case of Canadaian exchange it's really odd that only one guy knew the key to cold storage. Should at least write in his will or to notary in case of emergency...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 08, 2019, 07:45:08 PM
Nope, they trusted centralised exchange so they gave their acces to them. With DCEX u keep the private key, so nobody has acces except those who own private key. In case of Canadaian exchange it's really odd that only one guy knew the key to cold storage. Should at least write in his will or to notary in case of emergency...

Yup, now we can add the dead, the dying, hackers and exchanges, just to name a few of the disasters awaiting anyone dealing in cryptos; I hope no one turns off the lights or something, we might be able to blame those in the spirit world as well. ;)

Enjoy the weekend.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 08, 2019, 08:28:56 PM
 forex brokers are not better... Plenty were scam and run away with money. Some cheat clients and don't fill orders. Few went bust in CHF black swan event like Alpari, FXM... Even recently one went bankrupt.

So overall crypto is where forex was in 2000...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 08, 2019, 09:56:50 PM
forex brokers are not better... Plenty were scam and run away with money. Some cheat clients and don't fill orders. Few went bust in CHF black swan event like Alpari, FXM... Even recently one went bankrupt.

So overall crypto is where forex was in 2000...
[/quote

Now I am really confused; I thought Cryptos were part of Forex, it's that all forex instrument, except cryptos, is backed by "traceable" authorities, using "tangible" resources, transacted by the legitimate banking system to back the relative value of one instrument to the other.
Perhaps cryptos should be in the arena of precious art or collectibles; you never know, 50 years from now, those who have held a few of these crypto numbers, made out of hot air, will be able to find others who are collectors of fools gold.  ::)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on February 08, 2019, 10:01:51 PM
Nope, they trusted centralised exchange so they gave their acces to them. With DCEX u keep the private key, so nobody has acces except those who own private key. In case of Canadaian exchange it's really odd that only one guy knew the key to cold storage. Should at least write in his will or to notary in case of emergency...

thats actually the sad part, it was a one man show.

cold storage at least is save, but not if the key cant be found :)

i am sure lots of cold hard cash gets lost that way as well, where the person hiding it dies unexpectedly. or did not tell anybody where it is.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 08, 2019, 10:10:10 PM
Nope, they trusted centralised exchange so they gave their acces to them. With DCEX u keep the private key, so nobody has acces except those who own private key. In case of Canadaian exchange it's really odd that only one guy knew the key to cold storage. Should at least write in his will or to notary in case of emergency...

thats actually the sad part, it was a one man show.

cold storage at least is save, but not if the key cant be found :)

i am sure lots of cold hard cash gets lost that way as well, where the person hiding it dies unexpectedly. or did not tell anybody where it is.


Hmmm, the old mattress. But at least there is a possibility that some might accidentally or intentionally, find the stash, with cryptos, the server will stay in cold storage, long after hell freezes over.  ;)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Ggeyda on February 25, 2019, 06:07:25 PM
There is no doubt that Bitcoin has created a revolution in the world. It has enabled people to create an independent system for themselves. The entire cryptocurrency market volume is in billions. What do you think is the positive and negative aspect of the cryptocurrency market.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 26, 2019, 04:05:22 PM
I think the main negative is obvious - cryptocurrency exchanges get hacked all the time.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 26, 2019, 04:31:23 PM
There is no doubt that Bitcoin has created a revolution in the world. It has enabled people to create an independent system for themselves. The entire cryptocurrency market volume is in billions. What do you think is the positive and negative aspect of the cryptocurrency market.

Key words:

Independent
; you mean no one is in charge that you depend on like the exchanges which are run by people who may or may not be trusted?

created a revolution in the world what revolution? The technology blockchain might be "revolutionary" but not as common as the cell phone or Facebook etc.


cryptocurrency market volume is in billions, in what, billions of alphanumeric numbers, made by hot air; if it's wealth, where is it. Has anyone used it to own some real-estate, a ship or any other "tangible" asset?

There are no positives, just pain for a lot of gullible and naive investors who are losing millions and that it a FACT!


Regards,
HumbleTrader





Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 26, 2019, 06:40:02 PM
Yes plenty have bought real estate with crypto. You can buy via several agencies here is one from google search: https://bitcoin-realestate.com/

Independent means you have decentralised exchanges, where you don't add private key to the centralized exchange, which you may or might not trust and there you are the true owner.

Also, all exchanges that offer FIAT exchange have the same banks as forex brokers, so you have the exact same risk of trust.

Volume is calculated by FIAT, but its all hot air same as for stock market. If you buy stock for 1EUR the market cap of it will be based on that number, same if you buy altcoin for 1EUR. If you buy for 10EUR market cap is based on that number and so on... I would say if total crypto market cap today is 130 billion the real money entered is probably 13 billion.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 26, 2019, 07:14:58 PM
Yes plenty have bought real estate with crypto. You can buy via several agencies here is one from google search: https://bitcoin-realestate.com/

Independent means you have decentralised exchanges, where you don't add private key to the centralized exchange, which you may or might not trust and there you are the true owner.

Also, all exchanges that offer FIAT exchange have the same banks as forex brokers, so you have the exact same risk of trust.

Volume is calculated by FIAT, but its all hot air same as for stock market. If you buy stock for 1EUR the market cap of it will be based on that number, same if you buy altcoin for 1EUR. If you buy for 10EUR market cap is based on that number and so on... I would say if total crypto market cap today is 130 billion the real money entered is probably 13 billion.

Let's start at the very top, your link to real estate. The only way I have found to contact these people is via email(  Admin@bitcoin-RealEstate.com ) . A map shows them to be located in Richmond British Columbia, Canada. So no physical address to locate these people just an email and then? Perhaps they are part of the now defunct BC. exchange owner who died recently in India having BTC owners in loss for millions, what else is new.

Here are some links for you: When you can buy a doghouse with crypto, please post us a picture.

https://www.ccn.com/newsflash-canadian-bitcoin-exchange-hacked-says-all-funds-are-gone

Each day $2.7 million is stolen from exchanges
; that's people's hard earned money. People who  are convinced by many on site trolls to part with their hard earned money.

https://www.coindesk.com/2018-a-record-breaking-year-for-crypto-exchange-hacks

The rest "mon ami" is academic and a lot of "hot air".

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 26, 2019, 07:57:30 PM
Yes plenty have bought real estate with crypto. You can buy via several agencies here is one from google search: https://bitcoin-realestate.com/

Independent means you have decentralised exchanges, where you don't add private key to the centralized exchange, which you may or might not trust and there you are the true owner.

Also, all exchanges that offer FIAT exchange have the same banks as forex brokers, so you have the exact same risk of trust.

Volume is calculated by FIAT, but its all hot air same as for stock market. If you buy stock for 1EUR the market cap of it will be based on that number, same if you buy altcoin for 1EUR. If you buy for 10EUR market cap is based on that number and so on... I would say if total crypto market cap today is 130 billion the real money entered is probably 13 billion.

Let's start at the very top, your link to real estate. The only way I have found to contact these people is via email(  Admin@bitcoin-RealEstate.com ) . A map shows them to be located in Richmond British Columbia, Canada. So no physical address to locate these people just an email and then? Perhaps they are part of the now defunct BC. exchange owner who died recently in India having BTC owners in loss for millions, what else is new.

Here are some links for you: When you can buy a doghouse with crypto, please post us a picture.

https://www.ccn.com/newsflash-canadian-bitcoin-exchange-hacked-says-all-funds-are-gone

Each day $2.7 million is stolen from exchanges
; that's people's hard earned money. People who  are convinced by many on site trolls to part with their hard earned money.

https://www.coindesk.com/2018-a-record-breaking-year-for-crypto-exchange-hacks

The rest "mon ami" is academic and a lot of "hot air".

Regards,
HumbleTrader

After further research, I was able to locate an address of the head office of this Real Estate Broker in B.C.
Here it is: Highlights info  image
4663 Durant Street
Port Alberni, British Columbia V9y1g2

In fact, this is a picture of the office of this multi-million bitcoin enterprise you posted which sells "World over" millions on real estate in BTC; impressed?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4663+Durant+St,+Port+Alberni,+BC+V9Y+1G3/@49.2251159,-124.8029748,3a,75y,353.44h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6D7qANuN2VYyPcWc1wr6yw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D6D7qANuN2VYyPcWc1wr6yw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.08154%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sHighlights+info+row+image+4663+Durant+Street+Port+Alberni,+British+Columbia+V9y1g2!3m4!1s0x5488f0b55ca46b55:0x67ea1c44ce26754d!8m2!3d49.2252946!4d-124.802992#


... and don't spend money calling them long distance, you will get an answering machine, they are too busy spending people's "real"  money. :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 27, 2019, 07:48:23 AM
https://propy.com, https://bitpay.com/real-estate, https://cryptocurry.com/news/top-5-cities-can-use-bitcoin-buy-real-estate-property

Just ordinary google search and manny more...

People lose money because they don't do due diligence. More people lose money investing in forex signals, funds, MAM/PAM management. But I don't see you exposing that... In fact more scams have been made focused od Forex management than crypto...
Forex management must be a worse investment than crypto than ;)

Why would anybody keep millions in a centralized exchange?  If you don't own the private key you are not the owner. If indeed you are a day crypto trader than use Coinbase, Bitstamp, Kraken, Poloniex, Bittrex, Binance all which are offering refund in case of hacking...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 27, 2019, 07:54:23 AM
Oh and I forgot to mention how many forex brokers run away with investors money. How many went bust after black swan events and how many are scaming novice teaders even now...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 27, 2019, 12:03:45 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention how many forex brokers run away with investors money. How many went bust after black swan events and how many are scaming novice teaders even now...

You make some excellent points, that is why we (Donnafx) is here, to expose any and all scammers and opportunists, no matter where they are to be found in the domain of investing; at the same time informing investors, that  they cannot naively enter any sphere of investing and just gamble their hard earned savings, without study and hard work.

Check out my signature motto:

We humbly approach the Forex Market and take only what is earned through our hard work and intelligence.

Love is the ink, wisdom is the message.



Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 11, 2019, 02:46:25 PM
The Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre (AUSTRAC) announced that it has taken the licenses of two crypto currency exchanges (https://theforexreview.com/2019/03/08/australian-authorities-shut-down-two-crypto-exchanges-on-criminal-charges/) after a police investigation linked their operations to drug trafficking.

This is the first case, in which AUSTRAC acts in such a manner after a new law, adopted in April 2018 and aimed at tightening the anti-money laundering control, broadened the agency’s scope of responsibilities over all crypto exchanges in the country.

The Australian Police and AUSTRAC came with a joint statement, citing the arrest of a “key person”, in the management of the two crypto exchanges, in connection to importing, trafficking and possessing of about 30 kg of prohibited substances, including cocaine.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 11, 2019, 03:34:23 PM
Really good, all the benefit of blockchain transparency, meanwhile banks continue laundering money in secret... 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 11, 2019, 06:26:26 PM
Really good, all the benefit of blockchain transparency, meanwhile banks continue laundering money in secret...

Lol. One crook told the other, "You shouldn't be steeling during the day."  ;)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Ggeyda on March 15, 2019, 12:28:56 PM
Humble Trader I would say that you are a bit sarcastic and not contributing to solution of the problem for those poor people. Why don’t they just find few nice kids who are experts in system hacking and solve the mystery of private key? It is not so complicated. What do you think?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2019, 01:08:13 PM
Humble Trader I would say that you are a bit sarcastic and not contributing to solution of the problem for those poor people. Why don’t they just find few nice kids who are experts in system hacking and solve the mystery of private key? It is not so complicated. What do you think?

That is the whole premise of my having serious doubts about cryptos, all it takes is a good hacker or a computer which is faster and better, like the upcoming quantum computers and people will lose  their money before you can say Bitcoin.

The problem with the current situation is that each time you try a key and it doesn't work, there is a delay to the server which owns it, after x number of tries, you have to use another computer with another IP address. It is not impossible but it will take ages. And  that is the first step to get the computer which owns the wallets out of cold storage (cold= not connected to physically internet), then you need to start all over again, draining the funds from each wallet with its own key. Hali Luya!  :-X


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 15, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
Lol, you would need a few million years to hack a random wallet. With no inside information you can forget about it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2019, 07:31:32 PM
Lol, you would need a few million years to hack a random wallet. With no inside information you can forget about it.

Maybe a million years or maybe a few seconds; it all depends on the technology at hand and how sophisticated it is or becomes... only "time" will tell.

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: y5nitro on April 11, 2019, 12:37:32 PM
Technology is developing. Quantum computers still don’t have commercial use, but it is only question of time when they will. Another topic is 5G technology that is soon going to be a standard. China is getting prepared to introduce 6G within next few years. Think twice if hacking is not possible
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on April 12, 2019, 10:38:39 AM
It won't be possible. Crypto can move to quantum coding too...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on April 12, 2019, 06:20:41 PM
What do you mean under quantum coding? It's two different technologies you can't improve anything in crypto (except security ) using quantum computer. As crypto offers volatility we have to take advantage from it and best way to do that is CFD contracts on crypto available in brokers like Tickmill, Hotforex
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on April 12, 2019, 07:07:00 PM
I mean crypto moves to quantum blockchain. Encryption is done with quantum computers... There was an article, but can't remember where I read it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 12, 2019, 07:34:09 PM
I mean crypto moves to quantum blockchain. Encryption is done with quantum computers... There was an article, but can't remember where I read it.


I suspect that the application of quantum computers will defeat the ledger system such that keys will be revealed and processed long before traditional computers can complete a single process, thus, the blockchain system will be rendered useless. It will be akin to the current swarming of a server causes the denial of service as used by hackers to overwhelm and cripple any peer to peer system.

Only time will tell. In the meantime keep away from cryptos, unless you like drama and surprises of substantial loss.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on April 15, 2019, 07:34:22 PM
I mean crypto moves to quantum blockchain. Encryption is done with quantum computers... There was an article, but can't remember where I read it.

Oh I see, as I said it should be related to achieve better dealing with security issues.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on April 19, 2019, 02:25:35 PM
First we're going to need widely available quantum computers, which is not reality yet.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on April 23, 2019, 03:54:36 PM
Zaif, the Japanese cryptocurrency exchange, which last year lost over 60 million USD to hackers, will resume operations today, April 23rd, after a publicly listed Japanese investment firm Fisco took over the crypto business, paying 5 billion Japanese yen or roughly 44,7 million USD.


Zaif Crypto Exchange was hacked back in September 2018 and lost nearly 7 billion Japanese Yen (https://theforexreview.com/2019/04/22/after-losing-60-million-to-hackers-zaif-crypto-exchange-opens-again/) or 62,5 million USD worth of Bitcoins, Monacoins and Bitcoin Cash.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on April 25, 2019, 07:51:10 PM
Zaif, the Japanese cryptocurrency exchange, which last year lost over 60 million USD to hackers, will resume operations today, April 23rd, after a publicly listed Japanese investment firm Fisco took over the crypto business, paying 5 billion Japanese yen or roughly 44,7 million USD.


Zaif Crypto Exchange was hacked back in September 2018 and lost nearly 7 billion Japanese Yen (https://theforexreview.com/2019/04/22/after-losing-60-million-to-hackers-zaif-crypto-exchange-opens-again/) or 62,5 million USD worth of Bitcoins, Monacoins and Bitcoin Cash.

Crypto business are worth something I guess such decisions instill hopes into hearts of crypto traders!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Arsssele on May 10, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
I think that quantum computers will only provide higher speeds of data processing, which is generally very good. However, crypto world is still relatively young and it needs time to develop into serious market, especially when security of funds and transactions is in question
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: guptil on May 10, 2019, 11:36:27 AM
I imagine that quantum PCs will just give higher velocities of information handling, which is commonly awesome. Be that as it may, crypto world is still moderately youthful and it needs time to form into genuine market, particularly when security of assets and exchanges is being referred to
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on May 13, 2019, 04:11:22 PM
Anybody buying BTC from current levels or waiting for a drop to jump in? It's already above 7K
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 13, 2019, 04:37:12 PM
Anybody buying BTC from current levels or waiting for a drop to jump in? It's already above 7K

Yup, there are just as many who bought at 9k, waiting finally to cut their losses and get out before it tumbles to nowhere land.

Best luck to you.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 13, 2019, 07:00:37 PM
It's still ok to buy if we expect it to go over 20k...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 14, 2019, 02:32:02 PM
Despite everything cryptocurrencies remain quite popular.

According to a recent survey, for a month Americans have visited crypto exchange websites just over 22 million times, (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/americans-make-22-mln-crypto-exchange-visits-per-month) followed by Japanese, who visited such sites 6,1 million times, South Koreans with 5,7 million visits and Brits with 3,9 million visits.

The rest of the countries filling the top 10 list are Russia with 3,2 million monthly visits, Brazil with 3,1 million visits, Germany with 2,5 million visits,  followed by Vietnam and Turkey with roughly 2,5 million and 2,4 million visits respectively and Canada with slightly over 2 million visits..

I guess Americans fear no hacks.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 15, 2019, 10:40:15 AM
Despite everything cryptocurrencies remain quite popular.

According to a recent survey, for a month Americans have visited crypto exchange websites just over 22 million times, (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/americans-make-22-mln-crypto-exchange-visits-per-month) followed by Japanese, who visited such sites 6,1 million times, South Koreans with 5,7 million visits and Brits with 3,9 million visits.

The rest of the countries filling the top 10 list are Russia with 3,2 million monthly visits, Brazil with 3,1 million visits, Germany with 2,5 million visits,  followed by Vietnam and Turkey with roughly 2,5 million and 2,4 million visits respectively and Canada with slightly over 2 million visits..

I guess Americans fear no hacks.

This is how propaganda about cryptos is spread:

Who makes this claim? This "DataLight, an Estonian market research company, shows." You must be kidding? My "HumbleTrader'sFx co. and friends FxTradersHumbled" Incorporates, in the Banana Republic,  ;), claims, in fact, that real, peer to peer, wallet to wallet, exchanges have dropped significantly and the only uptick is between exchanges which artificially try to bolster volume. It's like you taking money from your left pocket and placing it on your right pant pocket, claiming that trading volume has increased.

Stop falling for this crypto propaganda by a corrupt industry out to get every sucker under the sun, who later on will want our sympathy for having been taken by the sharks.



Regards,
HumbleTrader :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 15, 2019, 11:08:30 AM
https://medium.com/bakkt-blog/bitcoin-futures-custody-bakkts-differentiated-approach-59b88d6984b5
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 15, 2019, 12:24:33 PM
I bought at about 3K then at 6K on the way up (so somewhen in 2017/2018 I guess) I've been in HODL mode ever since - and plan to be until :-

a) It goes to 0
b) It goes to 200,000

I think it's one or the other, so one hell of a risk / reward ratio. Worth a punt - which is how I treat it. Very little money at risk, just £200 - an amount I can easily afford to lose.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 16, 2019, 01:31:08 AM
https://medium.com/bakkt-blog/bitcoin-futures-custody-bakkts-differentiated-approach-59b88d6984b5


Interesting "will be" article. Get back to use when "it is". :D


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 17, 2019, 09:42:43 AM
Both perspective discussed a little https://youtu.be/SmjUvdJdlDM
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on May 20, 2019, 03:53:14 PM
Despite everything cryptocurrencies remain quite popular.

According to a recent survey, for a month Americans have visited crypto exchange websites just over 22 million times, (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/americans-make-22-mln-crypto-exchange-visits-per-month) followed by Japanese, who visited such sites 6,1 million times, South Koreans with 5,7 million visits and Brits with 3,9 million visits.

The rest of the countries filling the top 10 list are Russia with 3,2 million monthly visits, Brazil with 3,1 million visits, Germany with 2,5 million visits,  followed by Vietnam and Turkey with roughly 2,5 million and 2,4 million visits respectively and Canada with slightly over 2 million visits..

I guess Americans fear no hacks.

This is how propaganda about cryptos is spread:

Who makes this claim? This "DataLight, an Estonian market research company, shows." You must be kidding? My "HumbleTrader'sFx co. and friends FxTradersHumbled" Incorporates, in the Banana Republic,  ;), claims, in fact, that real, peer to peer, wallet to wallet, exchanges have dropped significantly and the only uptick is between exchanges which artificially try to bolster volume. It's like you taking money from your left pocket and placing it on your right pant pocket, claiming that trading volume has increased.

Stop falling for this crypto propaganda by a corrupt industry out to get every sucker under the sun, who later on will want our sympathy for having been taken by the sharks.



Regards,
HumbleTrader :)

Would you use dollar for exchange and saving without propaganda that it is reserve currency and threat to be punished if you refuse to exchange goods for it? I guess no, because dollar is simply paper which everyone trusts making it fragile equilibrium. Same with bitcoin. But here you have government which opposes its use. You can't claim that propaganda of that type is the reason why bitcoin has no value or worth nothing. It's a false claim because the reason why bitcoin can't take off is a threat to established rigged monetary systems
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 20, 2019, 04:25:06 PM
Despite everything cryptocurrencies remain quite popular.

According to a recent survey, for a month Americans have visited crypto exchange websites just over 22 million times, (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/americans-make-22-mln-crypto-exchange-visits-per-month) followed by Japanese, who visited such sites 6,1 million times, South Koreans with 5,7 million visits and Brits with 3,9 million visits.

The rest of the countries filling the top 10 list are Russia with 3,2 million monthly visits, Brazil with 3,1 million visits, Germany with 2,5 million visits,  followed by Vietnam and Turkey with roughly 2,5 million and 2,4 million visits respectively and Canada with slightly over 2 million visits..

I guess Americans fear no hacks.

This is how propaganda about cryptos is spread:

Who makes this claim? This "DataLight, an Estonian market research company, shows." You must be kidding? My "HumbleTrader'sFx co. and friends FxTradersHumbled" Incorporates, in the Banana Republic,  ;), claims, in fact, that real, peer to peer, wallet to wallet, exchanges have dropped significantly and the only uptick is between exchanges which artificially try to bolster volume. It's like you taking money from your left pocket and placing it on your right pant pocket, claiming that trading volume has increased.

Stop falling for this crypto propaganda by a corrupt industry out to get every sucker under the sun, who later on will want our sympathy for having been taken by the sharks.



Regards,
HumbleTrader :)

Would you use dollar for exchange and saving without propaganda that it is reserve currency and threat to be punished if you refuse to exchange goods for it? I guess no, because dollar is simply paper which everyone trusts making it fragile equilibrium. Same with bitcoin. But here you have government which opposes its use. You can't claim that propaganda of that type is the reason why bitcoin has no value or worth nothing. It's a false claim because the reason why bitcoin can't take off is a threat to established rigged monetary systems

True! It is the established government(s) controlled system which all counties agree to abide by. Now, if you want to be a renegade and live in your own village, set up your own trading system, go ahead, all will be good, "in your village". But don't expect to buy a cell phone with coconut shells, unless you want to exchange them with fiat currencies, which in your case, will have no value, "in your village".... but you will get no cell phone eighter.  Hello!  :) ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 20, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
Yup, as with FIAT it seems BTC price is agreed and people do use it more and more :) Imagine if 50% of vendors start using it... Also, don't forget there will always be vendors that don't accept debit/credit cards only cash. 




Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 20, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
Yup, as with FIAT it seems BTC price is agreed and people do use it more and more :) Imagine if 50% of vendors start using it... Also, don't forget there will always be vendors that don't accept debit/credit cards only cash.


"Imagine if 50% of vendors start using it".... yes, keep on "imagining"..Lol  ;) :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 20, 2019, 07:47:00 PM
Might make my first purchase for the year in the next few weeks / months (so long as the price pulls back enough).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 20, 2019, 07:59:49 PM
You missed that train. Sentiment is bullish, it won't go to 3k this year. It might go to 6k, which is still OK if we think 20k+ is next goal.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 20, 2019, 08:18:19 PM
6.5K is where I would start buying more.

If it goes below 5K (ish) I would be hesitant about adding any positions.

If it's at 3K in the next few months - it's not a pullback - it's capitulation, and I'd be Hodling again.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 21, 2019, 04:05:32 PM
Cryptopia, the New Zealand based crypto exchange, which was hacked for over 16 million USD back in January, has suspended all services and will be liquidated, the company announced in a statement.
 (https://theforexreview.com/2019/05/15/cryptopia-is-in-liquidation-stops-all-services/)

The liquidation will be supervised by the consultancy and audit firm Grant Thornton New Zealand, the local subsidiary of Grant Thornton International.

In January crypto currency investors, who had wallets with Cryptopia lost assets for more then 16 million USD, including more that 3,5 million worth of Ethereum coins after a hacker attack.

In the aftermath of an investigation by the local authorities the exchange resumed operations in March, but faced serious financial problems and had to file for bankruptcy earlier this month.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 05:02:33 PM
Cryptopia, the New Zealand based crypto exchange, which was hacked for over 16 million USD back in January, has suspended all services and will be liquidated, the company announced in a statement.
 (https://theforexreview.com/2019/05/15/cryptopia-is-in-liquidation-stops-all-services/)

The liquidation will be supervised by the consultancy and audit firm Grant Thornton New Zealand, the local subsidiary of Grant Thornton International.

In January crypto currency investors, who had wallets with Cryptopia lost assets for more then 16 million USD, including more that 3,5 million worth of Ethereum coins after a hacker attack.

In the aftermath of an investigation by the local authorities the exchange resumed operations in March, but faced serious financial problems and had to file for bankruptcy earlier this month.


Ah, no worries. The world is awash with $cash$..... and idiots, who don't know what to do with it!  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 06:01:00 PM
Curious?


This question is for my friend, BTC promoter, Opportunis.

Can you list 3 or 4 "regulated" brokers, who trade in BTC?

Please include the regulator entity and under what jurisdiction they are on, not one from the Banana Republic or such?

I would appreciate it. :)






Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: reinerh on May 21, 2019, 06:43:53 PM
Curious?


This question is for my friend, BTC promoter, Opportunis.

Can you list 3 or 4 "regulated" brokers, who trade in BTC?

Please include the regulator entity and under what jurisdiction they are on, not one from the Banana Republic or such?

I would appreciate it. :)






Regards,
HumbleTrader

humble,

as far as i know btc is traded on the futures market, and they sure are regulated big time.

you can trade it on ic markets as well.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 07:20:41 PM
Curious?


This question is for my friend, BTC promoter, Opportunis.

Can you list 3 or 4 "regulated" brokers, who trade in BTC?

Please include the regulator entity and under what jurisdiction they are on, not one from the Banana Republic or such?

I would appreciate it. :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader





humble,

as far as i know btc is traded on the futures market, and they sure are regulated big time.

you can trade it on ic markets as well.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 07:23:07 PM
Curious?


This question is for my friend, BTC promoter, Opportunis.

Can you list 3 or 4 "regulated" brokers, who trade in BTC?

Please include the regulator entity and under what jurisdiction they are on, not one from the Banana Republic or such?

I would appreciate it. :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader





humble,

as far as i know btc is traded on the futures market, and they sure are regulated big time.

you can trade it on ic markets as well.


Hello,  Reinhert. .haven't heard from you in some time; I hope all is well.
I'll just wait for a "list" of 2-3 such brokers from opportunistiis. Let's see what he comes up with.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 21, 2019, 10:11:08 PM
With regards to exchanges going bust and being hacked, it's happened before and will happen again.

If you are buying Bitcoin, store it in your own wallet not the exchanges online one.

It's not that hard, I keep my keys on a piece of paper in my safe. Good luck hacking that.

If your holding a lot, and don't want it in your own safe - most banks offer a safe deposit box, they are pretty safe I believe.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 10:17:47 PM
With regards to exchanges going bust and being hacked, it's happened before and will happen again.

If you are buying Bitcoin, store it in your own wallet not the exchanges online one.

It's not that hard, I keep my keys on a piece of paper in my safe. Good luck hacking that.

If your holding a lot, and don't want it in your own safe - most banks offer a safe deposit box, they are pretty safe I believe.

So why bother having BTC's, when you can just as well have fiat currency in a safe place like a bank and don't have to worry about it or take any precautions?  ::)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 21, 2019, 10:35:17 PM
As far as I'm aware, all the *alleged* advantages over Fiat are still there, regardless of how you hold it.

Not that it matters, as most crypto holders (including me) are holding it for the long term as a speculative investment.

In that case, I think of it more like holding a stocks than a fiat currency. Stocks can go to Zero, and so could Bitcoin. Only buy what you can afford to lose and all the other tropes apply.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 21, 2019, 10:39:08 PM
As far as I'm aware, all the *alleged* advantages over Fiat are still there, regardless of how you hold it.

Not that it matters, as most crypto holders (including me) are holding it for the long term as a speculative investment.

In that case, I think of it more like holding a stocks than a fiat currency. Stocks can go to Zero, and so could Bitcoin. Only buy what you can afford to lose and all the other tropes apply.

Best of luck; may it appreciate in value and not blow up like a balloon filled with hot air.  ;)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 22, 2019, 08:33:21 AM
Humble, you are looking at brokers or exchanges?

As mentioned you have futures and you can trade on forex brokers such as IC Markets, Admiral Markets, Pepperstone... 

If you are looking at crypto exchanges than you have Bittrex, Poloniex, Coinbase all are in USA, so need to have all the paperwork you asked.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
Humble, you are looking at brokers or exchanges?

As mentioned you have futures and you can trade on forex brokers such as IC Markets, Admiral Markets, Pepperstone... 

If you are looking at crypto exchanges than you have Bittrex, Poloniex, Coinbase all are in USA, so need to have all the paperwork you asked.

Thank you, opportunis. I think I was very specific, "Can you list 3 or 4 "regulated" brokers, who trade in BTC?" I did say, brokers. Exchanges to me are mere flea markets, where you can exchange condoms for cuckoo-clocks they have existed for years and they are remnants of the old barter system.

Now back to Brokers: Can you tell me of the three, you just listed, which one(s) will allow you to fund your account and withdraw, with BTC's, or any other crypto?  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 22, 2019, 11:12:47 AM
I have IC Markets, so they have deposits/withdrawals with BTC. For the rest I suppose they have it to.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 02:54:49 PM
I have IC Markets, so they have deposits/withdrawals with BTC. For the rest I suppose they have it to.

I find that strange, that a "regulated" Broker, would be allowed to have clients "fund" an account, using BTC... are you sure? How is the identification of who's BTC's they are and where the money comes from, for money laundering purposes?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 22, 2019, 03:15:03 PM
You can send BTC 100% , check it out: https://ibb.co/WBBJrPz

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
You can send BTC 100% , check it out: https://ibb.co/WBBJrPz

Hmmm... and you can withdraw your funds in BTC?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 22, 2019, 03:23:45 PM
I don't understand the idea of depositing and withdrawing money in cryptocurrencies. Their prices fluctuate so quickly, you may lose half the deposit while you're still filling in your data.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 22, 2019, 04:59:48 PM
I'm not sure I understand the argument about using BTC to fund and withdraw a brokerage account. It's not like you do that with other stores of money you trade.

If I trade AU/USD for example I need neither Gold or USD to trade, my broker converts it into and out off whatever Fiat currency I chose when I opened the account (Normally GBP for me personally).
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 05:03:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand the argument about using BTC to fund and withdraw a brokerage account. It's not like you do that with other stores of money you trade.

If I trade AU/USD for example I need neither Gold or USD to trade, my broker converts it into and out off whatever Fiat currency I chose when I opened the account (Normally GBP for me personally).



Hello, gpfwestie.

Does your broker allow you to fund "and" withdraw funds from an account in BTC's?


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 22, 2019, 05:26:53 PM
Hello, gpfwestie.

Does your broker allow you to fund "and" withdraw funds from an account in BTC's?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Just checked. Using IG Markets the funding / withdraw options are Fiat only (card, paypal or bank transfer).

I'm not sure what the argument is though ? they don't accept Gold / Silver / Diamonds / Shirt Buttons either.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 05:35:08 PM
Hello, gpfwestie.

Does your broker allow you to fund "and" withdraw funds from an account in BTC's?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Just checked. Using IG Markets the funding / withdraw options are Fiat only (card, paypal or bank transfer).

I'm not sure what the argument is though ? they don't accept Gold / Silver / Diamonds / Shirt Buttons either.


I guess you have a point if you consider BTC's as equating to "shirt buttons" when some of you consider BTC's a pervasive form of currency exchange, no questions asked. I guess indirectly, you have answered my query, BTC has a long way of being accepted as a form of universal payment, if ever... end of story.  ;)

Have a nice day.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 22, 2019, 05:43:41 PM
You can send BTC 100% , check it out: https://ibb.co/WBBJrPz

Hmmm... and you can withdraw your funds in BTC?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

No withdrawal which is strange, because when you deposit you fill KYC and AML info, so the wallet you send is known that it's yours. They might add this option later, this is a new feature maybe few months old. So don't worry, we'll have it soon :) Maybe time to get in while BTC is below 10k? ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 06:35:40 PM
You can send BTC 100% , check it out: https://ibb.co/WBBJrPz

Hmmm... and you can withdraw your funds in BTC?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

No withdrawal which is strange, because when you deposit you fill KYC and AML info, so the wallet you send is known that it's yours. They might add this option later, this is a new feature maybe few months old. So don't worry, we'll have it soon :) Maybe time to get in while BTC is below 10k? ;)

Doesn't sound like a legit operation that you can trade in BTC, deposit BTC but can't withdraw.  I am in no hurry to become a millionaire with dirty money which comes from illegal  activities and speculation driven by smart techies bulding the next bubble.


Regards,
HumbleTrader


Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 22, 2019, 06:55:44 PM
Haha, FIAT is the mother of dirty money and it filled all the bubbles we know so far. Crypto is pure in theory, but same old guys from FIAT are moving here, so all the bad things are from them... They just transferred their practices from FIAT to crypto. A corrupt person is a corrupt person, no matter where he sits, but at least here they can be traced easier. Crypto is transparent, the banks are not...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 22, 2019, 10:21:57 PM
Haha, FIAT is the mother of dirty money and it filled all the bubbles we know so far. Crypto is pure in theory, but same old guys from FIAT are moving here, so all the bad things are from them... They just transferred their practices from FIAT to crypto. A corrupt person is a corrupt person, no matter where he sits, but at least here they can be traced easier. Crypto is transparent, the banks are not...

I agree with the first part, if any reason crypto is surviving it is the money laundering aspect from wealthy individuals having their money offshore havens exposed ( Paradise Papers). As to the transparency of Crypto's, that is a long way off. If cryptos do survive, governments will require all wallets be registered with the owners clearly identified; this will be difficult but you never know: They still need to transfer information over communication satellites etc., which are government controlled but that is speculation on my part. I agree, that a crook is a crook, is a crook, no matter how you slice it.

I know you and other honest, law-abiding, crypto enthusiasts will declare any profits made in the sale of cryptos to your local government taxation office as required by law. :)

Enjoy your investment as it seeks the evasive moon shadows.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Westie on May 23, 2019, 02:26:20 PM
Doesn't sound like a legit operation that you can trade in BTC, deposit BTC but can't withdraw.  I am in no hurry to become a millionaire with dirty money which comes from illegal  activities and speculation driven by smart techies bulding the next bubble.

I salute your principled stance. Most people would happily collect their wages / dividends / pensions from an investment and turn a blind eye to their principles.

For example, I shouldn't have money invested in defence (war profiteers) energy/mining (destroying the environment) and a whole host of others - but choose not to look too deeply into where my pension is invested  :'(
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 23, 2019, 07:16:20 PM
Notable News:
CME Group Reports Record Bitcoin Future Volumes

CME Group, the leading regulated bitcoin futures exchange, continues its stellar month reporting multiple new records in their bitcoin futures product. As stated by an email sent out to CME’s clients, “May is shaping up to be the strongest month ever for CME bitcoin futures...since launch in December 2017 we have traded over 1.6MM contracts (+8MM equivalent bitcoin) representing over $50BN in notional value ($4.2BN per month).” Across the month of May, CME hit a record daily average of 14,000 contracts and on May 13th CME clocked in 33,677 contracts equivalent to $1.3 billion worth of BTC. This rally coincides with an all-time high number of unique accounts (greater than 2500) and bitcoin futures highest notional value comparison to gold futures.   

Why Does This Matter?

The diverse set of records hit by the CME group indicates a clear growth in institutional interest across multiple bodies. The all-time high in unique accounts signals a shift away from a marketplace dominated by a niche set of players. New entrants may be attracted to bitcoin futures exposure in response to the US-China trade war with China possibly depreciating the RMB as a method to increase exports. This May has been the bitcoin futures market most promising month reporting its highest comparison to gold futures. That said, even at its all-time high Bitcoin futures sat at only 2.5% of gold futures notional value.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 23, 2019, 09:33:58 PM
Notable News:
CME Group Reports Record Bitcoin Future Volumes

CME Group, the leading regulated bitcoin futures exchange, continues its stellar month reporting multiple new records in their bitcoin futures product. As stated by an email sent out to CME’s clients, “May is shaping up to be the strongest month ever for CME bitcoin futures...since launch in December 2017 we have traded over 1.6MM contracts (+8MM equivalent bitcoin) representing over $50BN in notional value ($4.2BN per month).” Across the month of May, CME hit a record daily average of 14,000 contracts and on May 13th CME clocked in 33,677 contracts equivalent to $1.3 billion worth of BTC. This rally coincides with an all-time high number of unique accounts (greater than 2500) and bitcoin futures highest notional value comparison to gold futures.   

Why Does This Matter?

The diverse set of records hit by the CME group indicates a clear growth in institutional interest across multiple bodies. The all-time high in unique accounts signals a shift away from a marketplace dominated by a niche set of players. New entrants may be attracted to bitcoin futures exposure in response to the US-China trade war with China possibly depreciating the RMB as a method to increase exports. This May has been the bitcoin futures market most promising month reporting its highest comparison to gold futures. That said, even at its all-time high Bitcoin futures sat at only 2.5% of gold futures notional value.


Crypto Economist Says Bitcoin Price Not Safe Yet, Crash to $1K Possible – BTC, XRP, Ethereum, Litecoin, Stellar, Cardano, Tron, EOS, Binance Coin Forecasts


https://dailyhodl.com/2019/05/22/crypto-economist-says-bitcoin-price-not-safe-yet-crash-to-1k-possible-btc-xrp-ethereum-litecoin-stellar-cardano-tron-eos-binance-coin-forecasts/


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 24, 2019, 08:05:31 AM
I would bet him that it will go to 10k before 1k, can someone arrange this  8)

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2019, 10:25:28 AM
I would bet him that it will go to 10k before 1k, can someone arrange this  8)

Your quite a bit "short": There is a much higher bet or should I say, "longer d*ck", who has placed a bet of 1 million. I guess your bet may make a "small" snack. Lol  :) :)


John McAfee will eat his d*ck if Bitcoin doesn't reach $1m by 2020

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3022195/john-mcafee-will-eat-his-own-penis-if-bitcoin-doesnt-go-above-usd1m-by-2020


Have a nice day... and keep your pants zipped.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 24, 2019, 12:44:56 PM
Mcaffe is a troll, he is on the run as I know now.

But more news on crypto:
https://www.coindesk.com/att-teams-with-bitpay-to-accept-bill-payments-in-crypto
https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2019/05/bbc-facebook-planning-to-launch-globalcoin-in-q1-2020/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2019, 02:11:49 PM
Mcaffe is a troll, he is on the run as I know now.

But more news on crypto:
https://www.coindesk.com/att-teams-with-bitpay-to-accept-bill-payments-in-crypto
https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2019/05/bbc-facebook-planning-to-launch-globalcoin-in-q1-2020/


You would be on the run too if you had to give up your d*ck. Now what was that you pledged earlier 10k or a body part like him? 😊


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 24, 2019, 03:31:54 PM
Nope, I would bet for BTC. Whoever wins gets it, either it will be worth 10k or 1k it's still a nice bet :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 24, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Nope, I would bet for BTC. Whoever wins gets it, either it will be worth 10k or 1k it's still a nice bet :)

Hahahah, with Bitcoin you never know, true.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2019, 04:28:37 PM
Nope, I would bet for BTC. Whoever wins gets it, either it will be worth 10k or 1k it's still a nice bet :)

Smart move, your "cutting" your bets "short", only. No body parts like, John McAfee. Lol  :) :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 24, 2019, 07:28:11 PM
Hello, opportunis: Here is a knowledgeable explanation from a man who is excellent at predicting, befor.e you wager your body parts and then some.  ;)


Dr. Doom On The Future Of Money At BlockShow Americas


https://medium.com/@martineparis/dr-doom-on-the-future-of-money-at-blockshow-americas-c15878c6f0ec


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: BarryGoasy on July 05, 2019, 12:41:00 AM
I'll be honest I don't feel comfortable talking about it publicly. But I have a little bit in Bitcoin in a little bit in Litecoin and a little bit in ethereum
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Loperte on July 16, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
Barry, I think that you have made great job buy purchasing these coins. If you look at their current price you will be able easily to calculate that you have earned more than 100% on your investment during last few months. I know that it is risky, but eventually, this market is winner for this year
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on July 17, 2019, 03:49:45 PM
A draft of a bill has been leaked in India inclining some to believe that the Indian government is considering prohibiting the use of cryptocurrencies in the country. (https://theforexreview.com/2019/07/16/all-cryptos-to-be-banned-in-india-besides-digital-rupees/)

Even though its authenticity can be questioned, the draft which bears the title “Banning of Cryptocurrency & Regulation of Official Digital Currencies” has been circulating in social media through the technology lawyer Varun Sethi.

The draft defines cryptos as “any information or code or number or token not being part of any Official Digital Currency, generated through cryptographic means or otherwise, providing a digital representation of value” and further states that “no person shall mine, generate, hold, sell, deal in, issue, transfer, dispose of or use Cryptocurrency in the territory of India.”
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Loperte on August 10, 2019, 03:31:21 PM
Eliza, I appreciate your effort to share some news on this forum. However, there is not such official information that Indian government will prohibit use of crypto currencies. For the moment there are only rumours on the market
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 10, 2019, 05:49:00 PM
Eliza, I appreciate your effort to share some news on this forum. However, there is not such official information that Indian government will prohibit use of crypto currencies. For the moment there are only rumours on the market

Probably, "rumors"; how about this one:

North Korea Stole $2 Billion in Crypto and Fiat to Fund Weapons Programs

https://www.coindesk.com/north-korea-stole-2-billion-in-crypto-and-fiat-to-fund-weapons-programs


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on August 12, 2019, 04:49:38 PM
Is it the reason why cryptocurrencies resumed decline today? I think the issue of security will permanently maul digital assets because there is no oversight and proper regulations.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on August 13, 2019, 03:23:14 PM
North Korea is funding its military program with money stolen from crypto exchanges and other hacker activities, a UN report reveals, quoting “total proceeds to date estimated at up to 2 billion USD”. (https://deposit-withdraw.com/un-north-korea-has-stolen-2-bln-from-crypto-investors/)

The report, presented to the UN Security Council says that North Korea is using the crypto markets “to launch increasingly sophisticated attacks to steal funds from financial institutions and cryptocurrency exchanges to generate income”.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on August 13, 2019, 03:48:24 PM
Yeah another proof how insecure and unregulated are majority of crypto exchanges That's why I avoid investing and trading crypto with them and instead prefer to trade them as CFD with FX brokers like Tickmill or Hotforex.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on August 15, 2019, 03:18:51 PM
I know right? Still, that sheer figure is just mind-blowing to me.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on August 19, 2019, 01:48:36 PM
The fraudsters behind the China based Ponzi scheme Plus Token are dumping bitcoins worth over 3.5 billion USD on exchanges around the globe (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/3-5-bln-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme-plus-token-pressures-the-markets), and that is creating a selling pressure on the markets, venture capitalist Dovey Wan warns.

Dovey Wan is trying to rise awareness of the the “critical” matter “before it’s too late”.

“This critical incident has been overlooked by the western community and will need all hands on deck to chase the scammed fund and freeze it before it’s too late”, Wan said.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Hilapur on September 25, 2019, 06:15:30 PM
Eliza thank you so much for this information. Since this Ponzi scheme is not in effect anymore, does it means that price of Bitcoin will now continue its uptrend? If it is so, then it is right time to buy again Bitcoin. What do you think?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 25, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
Dovey Wan is trying to raise awareness of the  "critical" matter "before its too late".

Buy BTC or any other crypto?

When will they ever learn?

Well, if there weren't suckers, would scammers and scams exist?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 26, 2019, 01:35:43 AM
Hurry, hurry buy more cryptos, while they are still HOT!


The mystery of the disappearing 'Cryptoqueen'
.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826161


These stories of loss are becoming so common.  As I said,  it's not the fraudsters' fault anymore, when there are so many suckers out there willing to be sucked out of their fortunes.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 26, 2019, 06:54:45 AM
Hurry, hurry buy more cryptos, while they are still HOT!


The mystery of the disappearing 'Cryptoqueen'
.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826161


These stories of loss are becoming so common.  As I said,  it's not the fraudsters' fault anymore, when there are so many suckers out there willing to be sucked out of their fortunes.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You cannot put the idea behind BTC and ICO because both of them are totally different in terms of business plan, concept, technology, purpose etc. Those who purchase altcoin or so called ICO are because of their greed, and they always believe the history will repeat itself just like BTC price that come from $0.02 to current price. When something is poorly understood, it become so much easier for all those misinformation to spread all over and arise the misconception about BTC, Fiat Currencies or ICO etc.

https://nioctib.co/?p=misconceptionaboutbitcoin
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Megabot on September 26, 2019, 12:53:50 PM
Hurry, hurry buy more cryptos, while they are still HOT!


The mystery of the disappearing 'Cryptoqueen'
.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826161


These stories of loss are becoming so common.  As I said,  it's not the fraudsters' fault anymore, when there are so many suckers out there willing to be sucked out of their fortunes.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

All I know is you were calling south on bitcoin when it was at 3500. And where did it go after? 13500? Yep!

It's a high risk investment, but you can't keep calling it south everytime it dips a little.

I am not into bitcoin. And I find this thread annoying
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 26, 2019, 02:14:37 PM
Hurry, hurry buy more cryptos, while they are still HOT!


The mystery of the disappearing 'Cryptoqueen'
.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826161


These stories of loss are becoming so common.  As I said,  it's not the fraudsters' fault anymore, when there are so many suckers out there willing to be sucked out of their fortunes.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

All I know is you were calling south on bitcoin when it was at 3500. And where did it go after? 13500? Yep!

It's a high risk investment, but you can't keep calling it south everytime it dips a little.

I am not into bitcoin. And I find this thread annoying

It is simple because a lot of people doesn't understand why BTC can worth so much but not other altcoin. They don't really understand the idea behind and thought all Crypto are actually the same thing but in fact it wasn't.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 26, 2019, 05:52:45 PM
By the way, I believe many experience trader saw this fall before it comes. There are so many signs that BTC are going south in short term either in fundamental or technical instead of dumping USD 3.5b will cause this fall. Daily average trading volume are around 18b, and the market cap about 146b. Do you think it make sense that only 3.5b can crash the market? A descendant triangle already form for the past few weeks, range getting tighter to an end, trading volume extremely low and volatility fall into the lowest point. There are so many signs indicated it will be going south for the short term. You don't need to be an expert to know all this sign. It is just some text book trading.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 26, 2019, 07:35:54 PM
Hurry, hurry buy more cryptos, while they are still HOT!


The mystery of the disappearing 'Cryptoqueen'
.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49826161


These stories of loss are becoming so common.  As I said,  it's not the fraudsters' fault anymore, when there are so many suckers out there willing to be sucked out of their fortunes.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

All I know is you were calling south on bitcoin when it was at 3500. And where did it go after? 13500? Yep!

It's a high risk investment, but you can't keep calling it south everytime it dips a little.

I am not into bitcoin. And I find this thread annoying

I am not sure you are referring to my calling value of BTC, I don't remember doing so. My entire emphasis is that cryptos are wrong. They are used by people outside the authority of law and governance and thus are illegal. By their very nature, they lend themselves to illegal activities, scams, and loss for unexpecting people. Any form of "illegal tender", will be shot down by authorities and those investing in it will ultimately lose. Of course, with every loss, there is always a winner, that being those in the dark side.

As far as your discomfort with this thread, and any other in the forum, just don't get involved to maintain your tranquility.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 26, 2019, 08:15:17 PM
So all tech companies are illegal now? They invest in crypto or create their own coin. Hell, even banks and investment funds invest in them. Seems all word has gone dark :) 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 26, 2019, 08:21:12 PM
So all tech companies are illegal now? They invest in crypto or create their own coin. Hell, even banks and investment funds invest in them. Seems all word has gone dark :)

Trump can use a man like you; taking things out of context.
Check out the term “legal tender”!  ;)

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 27, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
Well, I'm just replying to what you wrote:
My entire emphasis is that cryptos are wrong. They are used by people outside the authority of law and governance and thus are illegal.
If you consider it wrong and illegal most of the world don't in fact they invest in it more and more. It might happen that one day we will use some cryptocurrency instead of FIAT.

If you consider FED which is a private company to be a legal authority that can reign over a nation than I don't know who is wrong.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 27, 2019, 10:42:48 AM
https://www.cryptoglobe.com/latest/2019/09/venezuela-s-central-bank-could-soon-add-bitcoin-and-ether-to-its-reserves/
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 27, 2019, 12:32:30 PM
Well, I'm just replying to what you wrote:
My entire emphasis is that cryptos are wrong. They are used by people outside the authority of law and governance and thus are illegal.
If you consider it wrong and illegal most of the world don't in fact they invest in it more and more. It might happen that one day we will use some cryptocurrency instead of FIAT.

If you consider FED which is a private company to be a legal authority that can reign over a nation than I don't know who is wrong.

As I mentioned, when something is poorly understood, it is so easy for all those misinformation to be spread. Please send me something that he consider illegal that worth USD 8k per piece now. I don't mind to receives those illegal coin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 27, 2019, 12:39:30 PM
We should stop using phone, because scammer and illegal activities use phone to scam.
We should stop using internet, because scammer illegal activities use internet to scam.
We should stop using bank, because scammer illegal activities use bank to receives fund.
We should stop using email, because scammer illegal activities send phishing email to scam.

What should we stop now? How about we just go back to 19th century which all this thing doesn't exist. But from what I know even without all those things, scammer or illegal activities still exist

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 27, 2019, 03:46:40 PM
Dear iMusingKiMi and Oportunis.

Keep trying to pull the wool over our eyes by twisting what is being said. Legitimate authority is one that governs a state nation, whether it be through democracy or autocracy. It is the "flag" of a nation and the symbol by which it is recognized by other "legitimate" nations under the union of nations called the United Nations. When a "legitimate authority" issues a means of exchange which is identified as its currency of stored value for trade, then individuals, corporations and nations accept that legitimacy as a form of security for trade. Cryptos have no such security and are simply "playing cards" which some people use to play games, in the process scamming or stealing from one another. A nation's currency is valued by such factors as GNP, assigned interest rates by the state, and overall economic success. Cryptos are given value by  "pushers'(marketers), who like other drug dealers, set the market value based on a scarcity of supply and risk to supply.

Relax, sooner or later, cryptos will come "out of the closet" and will be recognized and used by legitimate authorities as an electronic form of exchange, which is already in used but called credit cards or debit cards. But then again, it will be regulated and accounted with nothing "crypto" about it. In fact, one can say we have been using the electronic form of payments, long before cryptos came along as a new fad with a fancy name but one which is "illegitimate", just like an illegitimate child which has no parents or country to call its own.


Have a great day gentleman. :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 27, 2019, 05:16:38 PM
By your definition gold is also ilegitimate, it's not issued by anyone it's just mined and we all accept it :) BTC is digital gold it doesn't aim to be a payment settelment although it can be, but I look at it as digital gold. Some other crypto want to be substitute for FIAT, but this won't work. In EU we have TIPS which can transfer funds in 10s and costs 0.002 EUR and it works 24/7. This was created because of crypto pressure and we all welcome it. BTC futures are also regulated now, so you can invest safelly ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 27, 2019, 06:58:12 PM
By your definition gold is also ilegitimate, it's not issued by anyone it's just mined and we all accept it :) BTC is digital gold it doesn't aim to be a payment settelment although it can be, but I look at it as digital gold. Some other crypto want to be substitute for FIAT, but this won't work. In EU we have TIPS which can transfer funds in 10s and costs 0.002 EUR and it works 24/7. This was created because of crypto pressure and we all welcome it. BTC futures are also regulated now, so you can invest safelly ;)

You better check your information several times before you embarrass yourself again. 10 min from where I am right now, I'm Montreal, I can walk into the Bank of Nova Scotia and buy/sell gold, certified by the bank and backed by the federal government of Canada .
When I asked about BTC, the service smiled politely and remarked, "Sir we don't deal in drugs". ;)

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 27, 2019, 07:51:09 PM
By your definition gold is also ilegitimate, it's not issued by anyone it's just mined and we all accept it :) BTC is digital gold it doesn't aim to be a payment settelment although it can be, but I look at it as digital gold. Some other crypto want to be substitute for FIAT, but this won't work. In EU we have TIPS which can transfer funds in 10s and costs 0.002 EUR and it works 24/7. This was created because of crypto pressure and we all welcome it. BTC futures are also regulated now, so you can invest safelly ;)

You better check your information several times before you embarrass yourself again. 10 min from where I am right now, I'm Montreal, I can walk into the Bank of Nova Scotia and buy/sell gold, certified by the bank and backed by the federal government of Canada .
When I asked about BTC, the service smiled politely and remarked, "Sir we don't deal in drugs". ;)

Regards,
Humble Trader

I think you are the one who should stop embarrass yourself with your ignorance and I see so many just like you since 2013 which by that time, BTC worth roughly USD 70 bucks a piece if I still remember correctly. I think oportunis explanation are much better than yours, at least he can clearly differentiate between physical and digital gold. Go to that website I show you earlier and learn what actually BTC were and why all those altcoin price couldn't match BTC price. Go and learn what stock to flow ratio means.

Many investor gotten scam by those altcoin or ICO because there are some who try to take advantage by using the name Crypto, but in fact their BP are just trying to build their own bank so they can print their own coin or token with the purpose of creating circulation to change investor Fiat.

Thanks for the new information. Nova Scotia don't deal in drugs but ICE and CME Group does.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 27, 2019, 08:20:23 PM
By your definition gold is also ilegitimate, it's not issued by anyone it's just mined and we all accept it :) BTC is digital gold it doesn't aim to be a payment settelment although it can be, but I look at it as digital gold. Some other crypto want to be substitute for FIAT, but this won't work. In EU we have TIPS which can transfer funds in 10s and costs 0.002 EUR and it works 24/7. This was created because of crypto pressure and we all welcome it. BTC futures are also regulated now, so you can invest safelly ;)

You better check your information several times before you embarrass yourself again. 10 min from where I am right now, I'm Montreal, I can walk into the Bank of Nova Scotia and buy/sell gold, certified by the bank and backed by the federal government of Canada .
When I asked about BTC, the service smiled politely and remarked, "Sir we don't deal in drugs". ;)

Regards,
Humble Trader
Funny it is Canadian bank that sells BTC.
National Bank Of Canada is one of the few Canadian banks that has kept a relationship with cryptocurrency businesses. If you are a Canadian resident, you can use this bank to buy/sell cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

But though it allows crypto transactions, the bank is heavily regulated and scrutinizes the transactions carefully. :)

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 27, 2019, 09:05:45 PM
By your definition gold is also ilegitimate, it's not issued by anyone it's just mined and we all accept it :) BTC is digital gold it doesn't aim to be a payment settelment although it can be, but I look at it as digital gold. Some other crypto want to be substitute for FIAT, but this won't work. In EU we have TIPS which can transfer funds in 10s and costs 0.002 EUR and it works 24/7. This was created because of crypto pressure and we all welcome it. BTC futures are also regulated now, so you can invest safelly ;)

You better check your information several times before you embarrass yourself again. 10 min from where I am right now, I'm Montreal, I can walk into the Bank of Nova Scotia and buy/sell gold, certified by the bank and backed by the federal government of Canada .
When I asked about BTC, the service smiled politely and remarked, "Sir we don't deal in drugs". ;)

Regards,
Humble Trader
Funny it is Canadian bank that sells BTC.
National Bank Of Canada is one of the few Canadian banks that has kept a relationship with cryptocurrency businesses. If you are a Canadian resident, you can use this bank to buy/sell cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

But though it allows crypto transactions, the bank is heavily regulated and scrutinizes the transactions carefully. :)

Round and round goes the merrygo round.
I don't think you pay attention to what I write. When a "crypto" becomes regulated like all credit/debit transactions, that is identifying the transactors, issuing records for gains/losses, it is no longer a true "crypto (hidden)" but just another form of electronic transaction; authorized, regulated and sanctioned by a governmental authority.

Enjoy, your crypto toys.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 28, 2019, 07:16:52 AM
Well blockchain was always transparent. Point is to enter early to make profit, while you do not want to do it and fight against it. And BTC is stil decentralised and anonymous and banks accept it. In EU we have even more banks that offer buying and selling of crypto also we have a lot of ATM that you can buy from. You have also several debit cards offered by few banks that store crypto and you can spend it to purchase products wherever Visa or Mastercards are accepted.

As suggested before, every investor should have some small part invested in crypto to diversify portfolio.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 28, 2019, 11:44:23 AM
Well blockchain was always transparent. Point is to enter early to make profit, while you do not want to do it and fight against it. And BTC is stil decentralised and anonymous and banks accept it. In EU we have even more banks that offer buying and selling of crypto also we have a lot of ATM that you can buy from. You have also several debit cards offered by few banks that store crypto and you can spend it to purchase products wherever Visa or Mastercards are accepted.

As suggested before, every investor should have some small part invested in crypto to diversify portfolio.

Once again you are muddling the waters:
(1) Blockchain is a technology and may or may not have anything to do with crypto. I have always supported the technology until a better one comes along to replace it. (2) If BTC is just a series of numbers and letters, it just like a dollar bill with a numerical series. If however it is stored in a "specific" wallet and you know who the owner identified to that wallet, then there is no "crypto" involved.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 28, 2019, 06:05:09 PM
What about the decentralization part? No central authority can issue BTC and also you can create million BTC addresses, so even if you have a registered one you can always use a non registered one :) Same as nobody knows how much gold is out there and who exactly owns it. If I have a few bars I can sell them to my friends or whoever I wish, no need to sell them back to the company that minted them to me and no government will ever know what happened to them...

But the main point is that you are missing on BTC by fighting it instead of embracing it and diversifying your investments.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 28, 2019, 06:33:58 PM
What about the decentralization part? No central authority can issue BTC and also you can create million BTC addresses, so even if you have a registered one you can always use a non registered one :) Same as nobody knows how much gold is out there and who exactly owns it. If I have a few bars I can sell them to my friends or whoever I wish, no need to sell them back to the company that minted them to me and no government will ever know what happened to them...

But the main point is that you are missing on BTC by fighting it instead of embracing it and diversifying your investments.

Gold, previous gems, artwork etc., have always existed in a sub economy but in the end,, they are "tangible" assets that cannot just vanish into thin air like most of us have experienced using a computer where the wrong keystroke can delete hours of work. By the same token, having spent most of my adult life  around computers, programming and teaching about them, I would not risk a penny on a program which can make one's entire fortune vanish in micro seconds because someone smarter than me has figured out a way to scam me or worse still, make the entire system collapse.


Nice to know there are people investing in smoke and mirrors.

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 28, 2019, 08:45:36 PM
What about the decentralization part? No central authority can issue BTC and also you can create million BTC addresses, so even if you have a registered one you can always use a non registered one :) Same as nobody knows how much gold is out there and who exactly owns it. If I have a few bars I can sell them to my friends or whoever I wish, no need to sell them back to the company that minted them to me and no government will ever know what happened to them...

But the main point is that you are missing on BTC by fighting it instead of embracing it and diversifying your investments.


Gold, previous gems, artwork etc., have always existed in a sub economy but in the end,, they are "tangible" assets that cannot just vanish into thin air like most of us have experienced using a computer where the wrong keystroke can delete hours of work. By the same token, having spent most of my adult life  around computers, programming and teaching about them, I would not risk a penny on a program which can make one's entire fortune vanish in micro seconds because someone smarter than me has figured out a way to scam me or worse still, make the entire system collapse.


Nice to know there are people investing in smoke and mirrors.

Regards,
Humble Trader

Do you think your argument make sense when you talk about tangible assets in financial world? Then you should just get out of financial world and go back to traditional industry. When you are trading in financial world, you are trading with all those contract in every exchanges and there are nothing tangible other than Cash Settlement. If you trade in forex, you are indeed investing in smoke and mirrors as well because your broker only give you some digit. I have been trading crude oil, indices, forex, notes, bond for years and years. Until today, I don't even know what a barrel of crude oil looks like for real and only some images on Google.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 28, 2019, 09:28:59 PM
What about the decentralization part? No central authority can issue BTC and also you can create million BTC addresses, so even if you have a registered one you can always use a non registered one :) Same as nobody knows how much gold is out there and who exactly owns it. If I have a few bars I can sell them to my friends or whoever I wish, no need to sell them back to the company that minted them to me and no government will ever know what happened to them...

But the main point is that you are missing on BTC by fighting it instead of embracing it and diversifying your investments.


Gold, previous gems, artwork etc., have always existed in a sub economy but in the end,, they are "tangible" assets that cannot just vanish into thin air like most of us have experienced using a computer where the wrong keystroke can delete hours of work. By the same token, having spent most of my adult life  around computers, programming and teaching about them, I would not risk a penny on a program which can make one's entire fortune vanish in micro seconds because someone smarter than me has figured out a way to scam me or worse still, make the entire system collapse.


Nice to know there are people investing in smoke and mirrors.

Regards,
Humble Trader

Do you think your argument make sense when you talk about tangible assets in financial world? Then you should just get out of financial world and go back to traditional industry. When you are trading in financial world, you are trading with all those contract in every exchanges and there are nothing tangible other than Cash Settlement. If you trade in forex, you are indeed investing in smoke and mirrors as well because your broker only give you some digit. I have been trading crude oil, indices, forex, notes, bond for years and years. Until today, I don't even know what a barrel of crude oil looks like for real and only some images on Google.

You keep on taking things out of context and not reading what has been posted previously so, I'll enumerate and simplify things for you:

1) This discussion is NOT about contracts but "currencies" and who can issue same.

2) When  you speak of brokers giving you a number,

a) Are you using REGULATED brokers or unregulated ones, why?

b) Are the funds you send to your broker placed in segregated or non- segregated accounts, why?

3) If I were to offer you the following currencies of equal current market value conversion:

a) Rubble

b) USD

c)  Yen

d) MYR

In order of a,b,c, d, which would be your highest preference and  which the last, why? :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 29, 2019, 07:57:29 AM
Here comes the irony because Rubble is the most gold-backed currency on the market...

So now you see how it really works. USD backed by USA debt is considered more stable than Russian Rubble...

And you can trade Crypto on regulated brokers ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 29, 2019, 02:57:59 PM
Here comes the irony because Rubble is the most gold-backed currency on the market...

So now you see how it really works. USD backed by USA debt is considered more stable than Russian Rubble...

And you can trade Crypto on regulated brokers ;)

I think somehow the conversation has shifted from one of the legitimacy of BTC as a form of currency to gold and other valuables. 1) I do not support the use of gold over "authorized" international currencies. I have however said that I would prefer to keep gold as a source of security in the event of massive social disruption. 2) I have insisted that accepted "currencies" are those under the supervision and agreement by a central authority based on the accountability of those who possess it and use it.

The key to all this is that any other form of currency which does not have the approval and recognition directly from a central authority is not valid. You will find in many jurisdictions like Russia, where the central authority is not trusted, the springing up of "alternative" sources of security being used by people such as gold and BTC. The bottom line is a) Any central authority which feels it's authority is challenged in this field will try to eliminate any alternative form of exchange which they feel is a threat. Gold can be easily found because it is tangible, crypto is much easier to trace because the central authority has control over all communications media and sooner or later, they will find those who possess it or be able to destroy the crypto's existence. Alternatively, like the current situation in Venezuela, the state has so many BTC's, they have no clue what to do with it because they cannot legally use it to trade on the open market for items they desperately need because the US and its cohorts are clamping down.

The issue of cryptos or "hidden" value of exchange, has always existed, like heroin and other underworld forms of value, the state has found ways to clamp down and criminalize those who own it. Ask yourself this: If the state considers crypto's a challenge to its financial system, and makes it illegal to own any form of crypto, be it BTC's or other, would you risk owning it, even if you consider it, unlikely for it to be traced to you directly?

I'll let you have the last word as you would, and I'll stop responding. I don't want to make this a conversation of two. Let's give it six months and get back to it and see where things stand.


Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 29, 2019, 05:35:24 PM
Because your argument doesn't make sense. See my pic, I traded all those C2C on OTC market which I can easily change to Fiat. Those are all toy that I have traded with and I can easily buy or sell those toy on OTC market which current worth around USD 8k.

Open your broker, BUY/SELL whatever instrument you like. If you profit, you withdraw. If you make a loss, you loss your fiat.

Any different with your toy and my toy?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 29, 2019, 07:52:31 PM
Because your argument doesn't make sense. See my pic, I traded all those C2C on OTC market which I can easily change to Fiat. Those are all toy that I have traded with and I can easily buy or sell those toy on OTC market which current worth around USD 8k.

Open your broker, BUY/SELL whatever instrument you like. If you profit, you withdraw. If you make a loss, you loss your fiat.

Any different with your toy and my toy?


If you make a loss, you loss your fiat.

Well, I am a little older than you to play in the "toy box".

You can trade in playing cards or any other broker accepted "toys", as long as the broker is secured in "fiat" (If you make a loss, you loss your fiat. ); an instrument backed by a legitimate authority. You, yourself had to convert BTC to USD, why? Try buying some bananas from Venezuela with BTC.

If you were to go to this distressed country and ask to buy some bananas, offering them, 10 USD, 3 BTC, or one gold coin, worth 10 USD, what do you think they will accept?

Regards,
Humble Trader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 29, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
Because your argument doesn't make sense. See my pic, I traded all those C2C on OTC market which I can easily change to Fiat. Those are all toy that I have traded with and I can easily buy or sell those toy on OTC market which current worth around USD 8k.

Open your broker, BUY/SELL whatever instrument you like. If you profit, you withdraw. If you make a loss, you loss your fiat.

Any different with your toy and my toy?


If you make a loss, you loss your fiat.

Well, I am a little older than you to play in the "toy box".

You can trade in playing cards or any other broker accepted "toys", as long as the broker is secured in "fiat" (If you make a loss, you loss your fiat. ); an instrument backed by a legitimate authority. You, yourself had to convert BTC to USD, why? Try buying some bananas from Venezuela with BTC.

If you were to go to this distressed country and ask to buy some bananas, offering them, 10 USD, 3 BTC, or one gold coin, worth 10 USD, what do you think they will accept?

Regards,
Humble Trader

That's why I say financial world are not suitable for you at all. From your explanation, you don't even understand what are C2C or OTC means. Secured in fiat? So called segregated with license? Regulated? You are so fresh in this field.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on September 29, 2019, 08:53:24 PM
Since you are so smart and there are so many people out there trading this toy, I have something to ask you.

Hen exist before egg or egg exist first before hen?

Fiat exist first or legitimate authority exist first?

Smart people grab opportunity, followers wait opportunity. That's the difference.

 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 29, 2019, 09:10:26 PM
Since you are so smart and there are so many people out there trading this toy, I have something to ask you.

Hen exist before egg or egg exist first before hen?

Fiat exist first or legitimate authority exist first?

Smart people grab opportunity, followers wait opportunity. That's the difference.


Now I can understand why you are having difficulty understanding what is being said and why you make so many mistakes. Most importantly, each time you have avoided or not understood the enumerated questions put to you, but have diverted to some other BS.
Take some time out and improve your English comprehension and when you complete level 2, basics, you may come back for an elementary discussion.

Check out the children’s primer, “The Turtle (tortoise) and the Hare.” And before you start scratching your “hair”, to figure out what I am referring to, “hare”, is a mammal that is prolific but arrogant.

I think this discussion is over, when you have something knowledgeable to say, send me a pm.

Regards
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on September 30, 2019, 12:21:27 AM
Since you are so smart and there are so many people out there trading this toy, I have something to ask you.

Hen exist before egg or egg exist first before hen?

Fiat exist first or legitimate authority exist first?

Smart people grab opportunity, followers wait opportunity. That's the difference.


One question that makes curious about giving an answer, exists egg first before the hen, I think the first is a hen, with reason, the egg still on the bracket, while the hen already running far from yours  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on October 07, 2019, 10:42:06 AM
https://medium.com/altcoin-magazine/financial-advisors-hate-bitcoin-their-reasons-will-drive-you-crazy-1df9fe417624
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 07, 2019, 02:13:40 PM
https://medium.com/altcoin-magazine/financial-advisors-hate-bitcoin-their-reasons-will-drive-you-crazy-1df9fe417624

Yes, I had read this article before. The main point is that "They have a fiduciary" responsibility, BY LAW. Any monkey can sell bananas but the only bananas that are sold in our markets in Canada, have to be inspected and authorized by "an authority" governed by the people's representatives.

Enjoy your fruit. I trust they are safe to eat.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 08, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
The Czech authorities will fine unregulated crypto companies with up to half a million euro (https://deposit-withdraw.com/500-000-eur-fine-for-unregulated-crypto-firms-in-the-czech-republic/), according to a new set of rules, that will be adopted in accordance with the EU’s Fifth Anti Money Laundering Directive.

The new rules will come into force by January 2020 and are actually harsher than the requirements proposed in the EU directive.

According to the Fifth AML Directive (AMLD5) every member state should monitor and restrict any money laundering and other illegal activities that involve digital currencies. The EU rules were adopted back in 2018 leaving national regulators until the beginning of 2020 to implement them into their national legislation.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Ggeyda on October 23, 2019, 06:50:52 PM
Folks, I dont understand why there is so much discussion about trading BTC. I think that BTC is excellent for making extra money, and that it all. I also think that there is a lot of traders who are sharing my opinion. WE are just using earnings opportunities, we actually dont care much about BTC
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 23, 2019, 07:52:30 PM
Folks, I dont understand why there is so much discussion about trading BTC. I think that BTC is excellent for making extra money, and that it all. I also think that there is a lot of traders who are sharing my opinion. WE are just using earnings opportunities, we actually dont care much about BTC

We are always happy when our members report good profits from any source as long as it is legitimate. The emphasis here is that it is not used as an excuse by some to encourage the sale of cryptos for illegal use/means beyond speculation, which is just fine with most people as long as they are aware of the risks.


Have a nice day and much success.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 24, 2019, 04:39:05 PM
I find nothing wrong with there being discussion. That's what forums are for - we discuss currencies, fiat and crypto, news, regulation, brokers - everything and anything that has to do with trading. Personally, I find such discussion helpful, even when I don't agree with all the opinions expressed, regardless of the topic. Having access to different opinions can only expand one's horizons.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on October 26, 2019, 04:07:19 PM
Since you are so smart and there are so many people out there trading this toy, I have something to ask you.

Hen exist before egg or egg exist first before hen?

Fiat exist first or legitimate authority exist first?

Smart people grab opportunity, followers wait opportunity. That's the difference.

Incorrect question. better to ask which is older: money or government? I think money was first as demand for exchange grew before any ancient government were formed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on November 08, 2019, 01:14:19 PM
I believe another break of 9600 - 9700 should be a good timing to buy. Most likely a break will leads to a rally.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on November 08, 2019, 01:24:15 PM
Since you are so smart and there are so many people out there trading this toy, I have something to ask you.

Hen exist before egg or egg exist first before hen?

Fiat exist first or legitimate authority exist first?

Smart people grab opportunity, followers wait opportunity. That's the difference.

Incorrect question. better to ask which is older: money or government? I think money was first as demand for exchange grew before any ancient government were formed.

Let's take USD for an example. Our fiat are backed by gold long time ago not anymore now. Many people wondering why fiat not backed by Gold anymore? Because US loss all it reputations when other countries try to exchange back their gold. Then US create "Petrodollar" with so called backed by oil to create another whole new circulations so they can print it easily. FED cut 3 times consecutive rates now, buying back Treasury Bills and Jay Powell doesn't admit it was a moved of Quantitative Easing. If you asked me between BTC and USD, which 1 I will keep? I will answer you BTC.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 20, 2019, 04:59:29 PM
The crypto analytics firm LongHash has published a new report (https://theforexreview.com/2019/11/19/crypto-analytics-firm-longhash-disputes-single-whale-theory/) disputing the claim laid forth by University of Texas Professor John Griffin and Ohio State University Assistant Professor Amin Shams about the influence of Tether on Bitcoin.

Where is the truth, I wonder.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Kalace on December 20, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
Bitcoin is now really gaining good momentum and is developing very rapidly.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on December 20, 2019, 12:19:12 PM
To me that looks to be that just part of the range.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on January 13, 2020, 10:32:17 PM
In this year 2020 will occur bitcoin halving, which this occurred every 4 years and every 21000 blocks, after halving hence reward for miners will decrease by half, if currently bitcoin reward for miner 12.5 BTC, then after halving reward decrease to 6.25 BTC, usually after halving will make price arise might until 10X, halving might occur in 12 May in this year
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: romis on January 15, 2020, 06:30:45 PM
Just a few months ago all peoples write that bitcoin is dead, but BTC up to $ 12,000 and now we are at the level of $ 8000, all time above the price from 2008 ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on January 15, 2020, 07:23:00 PM
Bitcoin still becomes the first rank on coinmarketcap, many analyst cryptos they optimistic with the bitcoin value, on this year will arise, but let see what happen later, before 2019, some trader also still optimist but in fact, the prices tend to decline.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on January 16, 2020, 01:30:39 PM
Concerned with the data security of the financial industry the European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA) announced plans to regulate the crypto markets in the European Union. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/esma-to-introduces-crypto-currency-regulations)

According to its Strategic Orientation for 2020-22  paper together with the National Competent Authorities ESMA will "require EU market participants to acknowledge the risks that may stem from digitalization by ensuring business continuity and the use of adequate and up-to-date technology, as well as adequate protection against cyber threats, and through proper data protection and data quality management".

Let's see how this will affect its price.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 16, 2020, 02:54:41 PM
Concerned with the data security of the financial industry the European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA) announced plans to regulate the crypto markets in the European Union. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/esma-to-introduces-crypto-currency-regulations)

According to its Strategic Orientation for 2020-22  paper together with the National Competent Authorities ESMA will "require EU market participants to acknowledge the risks that may stem from digitalization by ensuring business continuity and the use of adequate and up-to-date technology, as well as adequate protection against cyber threats, and through proper data protection and data quality management".

Let's see how this will affect its price.

This is only the beginning of controlling cryptos. As the screws tighten, so will cryptocurrencies lose their "crypto" prefix making digital trading just like any other digital transaction akin to credit card transactions.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on January 16, 2020, 06:33:49 PM
And you still don't want to buy and get some profits from this? Once crypto is safely regulated you will see the rise on price, since they are limited and cannot be printed like FIAT... BTC made only 100% in 2019, gold made around 25% and this was huge for gold, while nothing much for BTC. In May we have halving, so mining rewards drop by half. If mining is to be profitable than the price of BTC has to be 2x from now otherwise companies will turn off mining and since they invested millions into this I expect the price will follow. It should be a good time to diversify a little. If you think opposite than go short.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 16, 2020, 06:42:49 PM
And you still don't want to buy and get some profits from this? Once crypto is safely regulated you will see the rise on price, since they are limited and cannot be printed like FIAT... BTC made only 100% in 2019, gold made around 25% and this was huge for gold, while nothing much for BTC. In May we have halving, so mining rewards drop by half. If mining is to be profitable than the price of BTC has to be 2x from now otherwise companies will turn off mining and since they invested millions into this I expect the price will follow. It should be a good time to diversify a little. If you think opposite than go short.

If I were you, I would be getting rid of BTC and all cryptos: Once they will be forced by law to expose who owns what and people see that a huge number is held by a few who manipulate the markets,  people will start dropping these fake digital wallets and their contents. Firesale of BTC and others is coming!

Take care and pray.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on January 16, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
People already know which wallets hold the most BTC, there is no fear of that otherwise people wouldn't use USD as the most cahs is held by criminals :) Digital transactions are OK, but the reality is that bank are not holing funds in reserves, so the system we have now is also a big farse.

Also, there is no way that the current crypto can be fully regulated. You can create BTC address anytime you want. The only thing is they can regulate transfers, so if you send from an unverified wallet the funds will be rejected or in question until you prove the funs are legit and not from some illegal activity. 

I agree with you to get rid of BTC but only if price doesn't follow after we get halving, because than miners will turn off asics and the network will become congested and we can see chaos in crypto.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 07, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
After last month, the UK's Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) ts new roles to supervise the crypto currency sector in an attempt to curb money laundering (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/larger-crypto-businesses-in-the-uk-will-pay-10000-registration-fee) and terrorism financing, the regulator now introduces a two tire registration fee system for all crypto businesses.

Companies that annually make  less than  250 000 GBP will pay a 2000 GBP registration fee, while companies with an income exceeding 250 000 GBP will have to pay 10 000 GBP.

“We are funded entirely by fees and levies from the businesses we regulate. We proposed a flat-rate application charge for registration of £5,000 to recover estimated gateway costs of £400,000 from approximately 80 potential applicants known to us,” the regulator said in a statement.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on February 09, 2020, 02:40:54 PM
Bought 0.2 btc using CFD contract with Hotforex, expect it to rise to 15K this year. What do you think about this trade guys?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 09, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Bought 0.2 btc using CFD contract with Hotforex, expect it to rise to 15K this year. What do you think about this trade guys?


Keep us posted, when you hit the target.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 09, 2020, 05:23:59 PM
as I know we hade a "bet" which asset will perform better gold or BTC, so far gold is staying way behind. The BTC price last year was 3.2k now it's almost 10k. Gold was 1.2k now it's 1.5k
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 09, 2020, 05:48:24 PM
as I know we hade a "bet" which asset will perform better gold or BTC, so far gold is staying way behind. The BTC price last year was 3.2k now it's almost 10k. Gold was 1.2k now it's 1.5k

You are correct said the turtle to the hare.

Regards,
Humble Trader:)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on February 09, 2020, 09:04:21 PM
As I commented months ago, 9700 resistance are crucial. Once broken, buying frenzy will continue. And it wouldn't surprise me our honorable Humble Trader's till today still encouraging people to sell those highly valuable game money years ago. LoL
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on February 10, 2020, 11:05:50 PM
Bitcoin halving will occur on May, if lookback at halving 2016, this will possible as a reason for bitcoin arises to a higher price, many analysts still optimistic with bitcoin on this year, but bitcoin halving causes reward miner will decrease half, this might not good for miner because they need cost to electricity and equipment
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 10, 2020, 11:17:58 PM
Bitcoin halving will occur on May, if lookback at halving 2016, this will possible as a reason for bitcoin arises to a higher price, many analysts still optimistic with bitcoin on this year, but bitcoin halving causes reward miner will decrease half, this might not good for miner because they need cost to electricity and equipment

Shhhh.... not too loud, you'll wake up the crypto dreamers.  :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 10, 2020, 11:43:23 PM
as I know we hade a "bet" which asset will perform better gold or BTC, so far gold is staying way behind. The BTC price last year was 3.2k now it's almost 10k. Gold was 1.2k now it's 1.5k

You are correct said the turtle to the hare.

Regards,
Humble Trader:)
Well in this case we have a decade to look at. We can also check how BTC outperforms gold for next 12 months :)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 14, 2020, 12:31:48 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 14, 2020, 01:11:15 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

The writing is on the wall and has begun in EU. When cryptos are regulated and miners have no incentives to keep the system afloat, BTC and the like, will collapse. That is not to say the blockchain system will be abandoned but used by institutions just like we do today using conventional exchange systems. The BTC's stored in cold vaults will soon be taken out to cash out and the panic will cause the next tech bubble to collapse.
Sorry for the bad news "BTC collectors". At least with gold coins and such, you can show something solid to your friends to boast about, what will you show them of what BTC's "were" all about, a number of letters and digits?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 14, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

The writing is on the wall and has begun in EU. When cryptos are regulated and miners have no incentives to keep the system afloat, BTC and the like, will collapse. That is not to say the blockchain system will be abandoned but used by institutions just like we do today using conventional exchange systems. The BTC's stored in cold vaults will soon be taken out to cash out and the panic will cause the next tech bubble to collapse.
Sorry for the bad news "BTC collectors". At least with gold coins and such, you can show something solid to your friends to boast about, what will you show them of what BTC's "were" all about, a number of letters and digits?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Why would BTC dump if it's regulated? In my opinion, it will increase as more institutions will diversify in it...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 14, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

The writing is on the wall and has begun in EU. When cryptos are regulated and miners have no incentives to keep the system afloat, BTC and the like, will collapse. That is not to say the blockchain system will be abandoned but used by institutions just like we do today using conventional exchange systems. The BTC's stored in cold vaults will soon be taken out to cash out and the panic will cause the next tech bubble to collapse.
Sorry for the bad news "BTC collectors". At least with gold coins and such, you can show something solid to your friends to boast about, what will you show them of what BTC's "were" all about, a number of letters and digits?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Why would BTC dump if it's regulated? In my opinion, it will increase as more institutions will diversify in it...

Why do you think the US pressured all countries to move away from the gold standard?
Do you think them wanting to control world finance had anything to do with it? Do you think they will allow ANY other entity, like BTC or other crypto to take control?

In fact, I might contradict myself if based on the following conspiracy theory the US is in it: In other words, US intelligence is the ones who came out with BTC in the first place and they have a way to control it. Look up the latest from the Washinton Post: " Intelligence coup of the century': CIA secretly owned encryption firm used by other countries to communicate. The CIA secretly owned a company that sold rigged encryption systems to other countries, allowing the agency to spy on more than 100 nations over several decades while generating millions in profit."
In other words, there was never a Satoshi Nakamoto, but an NSA/CIA, plan to establish a new way to control world finance. Impossible you say?

Regards,
HumbleTrader.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: bradleyjinx on February 14, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
I've never been into bitcoin. But lately I think about learning about it and maybe even invest.

But I heard it's dead. Should I invest my money and, most importantly, my time?

thoughts?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 14, 2020, 02:05:24 PM
this is AML and KYC regulation only... The same is for Gold, when you buy it you need to fill all that... I don't mind if my state knows I own crypto. I can avoid taxes if I use company for trading... It will be like trading with ETF, stocks... The point is the rarity and acceptance of the crypto as a financial asset.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 14, 2020, 02:07:18 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

The writing is on the wall and has begun in EU. When cryptos are regulated and miners have no incentives to keep the system afloat, BTC and the like, will collapse. That is not to say the blockchain system will be abandoned but used by institutions just like we do today using conventional exchange systems. The BTC's stored in cold vaults will soon be taken out to cash out and the panic will cause the next tech bubble to collapse.
Sorry for the bad news "BTC collectors". At least with gold coins and such, you can show something solid to your friends to boast about, what will you show them of what BTC's "were" all about, a number of letters and digits?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Why would BTC dump if it's regulated? In my opinion, it will increase as more institutions will diversify in it...

Why do you think the US pressured all countries to move away from the gold standard?
Do you think them wanting to control world finance had anything to do with it? Do you think they will allow ANY other entity, like BTC or other crypto to take control?

In fact, I might contradict myself if based on the following conspiracy theory the US is in it: In other words, US intelligence is the ones who came out with BTC in the first place and they have a way to control it. Look up the latest from the Washinton Post: " Intelligence coup of the century': CIA secretly owned encryption firm used by other countries to communicate. The CIA secretly owned a company that sold rigged encryption systems to other countries, allowing the agency to spy on more than 100 nations over several decades while generating millions in profit."
In other words, there was never a Satoshi Nakamoto, but an NSA/CIA, plan to establish a new way to control world finance. Impossible you say?

Regards,
HumbleTrader.
Yes this could be true, but with that in mind the BTC will be pushed by bankers and the price will go up anyways... Don't underestimate the power of greed...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 14, 2020, 03:29:33 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

The writing is on the wall and has begun in EU. When cryptos are regulated and miners have no incentives to keep the system afloat, BTC and the like, will collapse. That is not to say the blockchain system will be abandoned but used by institutions just like we do today using conventional exchange systems. The BTC's stored in cold vaults will soon be taken out to cash out and the panic will cause the next tech bubble to collapse.
Sorry for the bad news "BTC collectors". At least with gold coins and such, you can show something solid to your friends to boast about, what will you show them of what BTC's "were" all about, a number of letters and digits?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Why would BTC dump if it's regulated? In my opinion, it will increase as more institutions will diversify in it...

Why do you think the US pressured all countries to move away from the gold standard?
Do you think them wanting to control world finance had anything to do with it? Do you think they will allow ANY other entity, like BTC or other crypto to take control?

In fact, I might contradict myself if based on the following conspiracy theory the US is in it: In other words, US intelligence is the ones who came out with BTC in the first place and they have a way to control it. Look up the latest from the Washinton Post: " Intelligence coup of the century': CIA secretly owned encryption firm used by other countries to communicate. The CIA secretly owned a company that sold rigged encryption systems to other countries, allowing the agency to spy on more than 100 nations over several decades while generating millions in profit."
In other words, there was never a Satoshi Nakamoto, but an NSA/CIA, plan to establish a new way to control world finance. Impossible you say?

Regards,
HumbleTrader.
Yes this could be true, but with that in mind the BTC will be pushed by bankers and the price will go up anyways... Don't underestimate the power of greed...

That is "a" possibility, the other might be that they decided to "clean out" and start again by having BTC drop down to 10 cents, and start from the bottom up, will you still hang in?


Best of luck, I'll hold on to my gold. Step by step, i'll get to the finish line.

Regards,
Humbletrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on February 18, 2020, 05:16:13 AM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

As long as exchanges don't offer withdrawals or exchange to fiat there is no legal reason to shut them down. That's why the law you mention is not a threat for crypto exchanges and thus to cryptocurrencies trading and investing.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 18, 2020, 01:20:45 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

As long as exchanges don't offer withdrawals or exchange to fiat there is no legal reason to shut them down. That's why the law you mention is not a threat for crypto exchanges and thus to cryptocurrencies trading and investing.

Thank you for your "legal" expertise. Let's wait and see from those who actually draft the laws.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 18, 2020, 02:44:37 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

As long as exchanges don't offer withdrawals or exchange to fiat there is no legal reason to shut them down. That's why the law you mention is not a threat for crypto exchanges and thus to cryptocurrencies trading and investing.

Thank you for your "legal" expertise. Let's wait and see from those who actually draft the laws.

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Can anyone explain to me why there are all these advertisings and multiple articles about BTC's and other crypto's, who makes "real" money out of this? Why is it that in the past almost 10 years of BTC, most articles are like going to a "fortune teller" who predicts the future, a future which has yet to come?
In the capitalistic system, you sell something to make a profit, who profits so much so that the average Mr./Mrs. Public is constantly bombarded with home phone calls from peddlers trying to convince us to part with our fiat currencies in exchange for cryptos?

Finally, why in almost 100% of the time you see a photo similar to the one attached where a GOLD coin is used to symbolize BTC; if BTC is so valuable, why does it need gold to stand on?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on February 18, 2020, 05:20:43 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

As long as exchanges don't offer withdrawals or exchange to fiat there is no legal reason to shut them down. That's why the law you mention is not a threat for crypto exchanges and thus to cryptocurrencies trading and investing.

Thank you for your "legal" expertise. Let's wait and see from those who actually draft the laws.

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Can anyone explain to me why there are all these advertisings and multiple articles about BTC's and other crypto's, who makes "real" money out of this? Why is it that in the past almost 10 years of BTC, most articles are like going to a "fortune teller" who predicts the future, a future which has yet to come?
In the capitalistic system, you sell something to make a profit, who profits so much so that the average Mr./Mrs. Public is constantly bombarded with home phone calls from peddlers trying to convince us to part with our fiat currencies in exchange for cryptos?

Finally, why in almost 100% of the time you see a photo similar to the one attached where a GOLD coin is used to symbolize BTC; if BTC is so valuable, why does it need gold to stand on?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
You probably signed to some Zulutrade. They resell your data to aggressive marketing companies. Or some shady broker that resold your info. When registering to some online forum, broker etc just use some fake number like 01 123456789...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 18, 2020, 06:38:35 PM
According to the US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin new regulations for cryptocurrencies will be put in place (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/13/fincen-to-put-new-regulatory-measures-for-digital-currencies/) through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network which itself is subordinated to the Treasury Department.

In a speech before the Senate Finance Committee he highlighted the increase in funds with regards to anti-terror funding measures. He said, “specifically on cryptocurrencies, we are spending a lot of time on this, on both an interagency basis and with the regulators. We’re about to roll out some significant new requirements at FinCEN.”

As long as exchanges don't offer withdrawals or exchange to fiat there is no legal reason to shut them down. That's why the law you mention is not a threat for crypto exchanges and thus to cryptocurrencies trading and investing.

Thank you for your "legal" expertise. Let's wait and see from those who actually draft the laws.

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Can anyone explain to me why there are all these advertisings and multiple articles about BTC's and other crypto's, who makes "real" money out of this? Why is it that in the past almost 10 years of BTC, most articles are like going to a "fortune teller" who predicts the future, a future which has yet to come?
In the capitalistic system, you sell something to make a profit, who profits so much so that the average Mr./Mrs. Public is constantly bombarded with home phone calls from peddlers trying to convince us to part with our fiat currencies in exchange for cryptos?

Finally, why in almost 100% of the time you see a photo similar to the one attached where a GOLD coin is used to symbolize BTC; if BTC is so valuable, why does it need gold to stand on?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
You probably signed to some Zulutrade. They resell your data to aggressive marketing companies. Or some shady broker that resold your info. When registering to some online forum, broker etc just use some fake number like 01 123456789...

The convenient answer, but this has nothing to do with me. I know about security more than the average person. No, this comes from police agencies and public research groups which warn consumers to be on the lookout for such scammers.

Now that you have “conveniently” chosen to respond to only one of my questions, can’t wait for the smoke and mirrors about the others.

Enjoy your winter holiday.
Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on February 21, 2020, 01:31:11 PM
Two men have been apprehended in the Netherlands by the Fiscal Intelligence and Investigation Service in relation to a money laundering scheme involving digital currencies.
 (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/20/authorities-in-the-netherlands-arrest-two-for-money-laundering-using-crypto/)

According to the official statement they were arrested on Monday, February 17, in two separate criminal investigations, headed by the National Office for Serious Fraud, Environmental Crime, and Asset Confiscation.

The first accused is suspected in being directly involved in the laundering of approximately $2.27 million from crypto scams. The investigation uncovered large purchases with a crypto wallet, as well as several big cash withdrawals without sufficient explanation for the source of the funds.

And this is how people profit off cryptos. Until they get arrested, that is.   ???

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 21, 2020, 02:17:00 PM
Two men have been apprehended in the Netherlands by the Fiscal Intelligence and Investigation Service in relation to a money laundering scheme involving digital currencies.
 (https://theforexreview.com/2020/02/20/authorities-in-the-netherlands-arrest-two-for-money-laundering-using-crypto/)

According to the official statement they were arrested on Monday, February 17, in two separate criminal investigations, headed by the National Office for Serious Fraud, Environmental Crime, and Asset Confiscation.

The first accused is suspected in being directly involved in the laundering of approximately $2.27 million from crypto scams. The investigation uncovered large purchases with a crypto wallet, as well as several big cash withdrawals without sufficient explanation for the source of the funds.

And this is how people profit off cryptos. Until they get arrested, that is.   ???

A long time ago, I tried to deposit seven thousand dollars in cash at my bank, they wouldn't accept it until I could prove where I got this cash money. But with crypto, if it was seven million cash purchase of crypto, who would ask? And no, I don't sell drugs. :D

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on February 21, 2020, 10:33:12 PM
Cryptocurrency still not all country allow crypto trading, most exchange crypt unregulated, if investor not carefully, investing big money in crypto include enter in risky business, sometimes popular exchange line as Luno its user have problem with their money, but indeed almost exchange they follow rules KYC and AML
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Crypystype on February 24, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
Do not finish the deal until you get at least 1 transaction confirmation, otherwise, you may be tricked, in this video, I will clearly show how scammer does it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ctRHfJKMSQ
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 09, 2020, 02:30:57 PM
Where is BTC? Currently at 7,779.66 United States Dollar and falling.

Where is BTC, the "gold equivalent to security". Where are those promoting the virtuous of this panacea of safety, hiding?

While the traditional reserve to safety, REAL, SOLID GOLD, has skyrocketed, BTC and others have hit the sewers.

Sad, to say, "I told you so!" Wait,  there is more to come after May. No tears for greed and ignorance. :'(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 09, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
Where is BTC? Currently at 7,779.66 United States Dollar and falling.

Where is BTC, the "gold equivalent to security". Where are those promoting the virtuous of this panacea of safety, hiding?

While the traditional reserve to safety, REAL, SOLID GOLD, has skyrocketed, BTC and others have hit the sewers.

Sad, to say, "I told you so!" Wait,  there is more to come after May. No tears for greed and ignorance. :'(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Still more profitable than gold... Gold instead of going up they sell it too so they can cover the losses... It should be over 1.7k and it's not. Let's see at the end of the year how it goes. But don't worry BTC can have a losing year like 2018 too... It's the longterm view that is important...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 09, 2020, 06:27:17 PM
Where is BTC? Currently at 7,779.66 United States Dollar and falling.

Where is BTC, the "gold equivalent to security". Where are those promoting the virtuous of this panacea of safety, hiding?

While the traditional reserve to safety, REAL, SOLID GOLD, has skyrocketed, BTC and others have hit the sewers.

Sad, to say, "I told you so!" Wait,  there is more to come after May. No tears for greed and ignorance. :'(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Still more profitable than gold... Gold instead of going up they sell it too so they can cover the losses... It should be over 1.7k and it's not. Let's see at the end of the year how it goes. But don't worry BTC can have a losing year like 2018 too... It's the longterm view that is important...

You made my point: When the markets go into panic: Investors initially sell gold reserves to cover their margin calls.  Once these losses are covered, they then rush back to the safe haven of gold. They don't see BTC as a haven of security but treat BTC as any other "risky investment". In a time of panic, I can sell gold on the street to anyone in exchange from burgers to cars. With BTC, I will be called a joker. :-[

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on March 09, 2020, 11:17:18 PM
Gold reached a new high on past few days, currently, this metal on daily timeframe formed bearish candle, but low price still higher than the previous low, still possible to move continuation uptrend, while bitcoin drop and still drop, might many people think this is not safe-haven asset
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 10, 2020, 08:06:03 AM
Well now u see BTC going back up, while gold going down... So once margin calls are being paid off people invest back in best performing assets and BTC is one of them...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 13, 2020, 02:22:55 PM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 13, 2020, 03:15:10 PM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 14, 2020, 03:43:10 AM
Where is BTC? Currently at 7,779.66 United States Dollar and falling.

Where is BTC, the "gold equivalent to security". Where are those promoting the virtuous of this panacea of safety, hiding?

While the traditional reserve to safety, REAL, SOLID GOLD, has skyrocketed, BTC and others have hit the sewers.

Sad, to say, "I told you so!" Wait,  there is more to come after May. No tears for greed and ignorance. :'(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Still more profitable than gold... Gold instead of going up they sell it too so they can cover the losses... It should be over 1.7k and it's not. Let's see at the end of the year how it goes. But don't worry BTC can have a losing year like 2018 too... It's the longterm view that is important...

You made my point: When the markets go into panic: Investors initially sell gold reserves to cover their margin calls.  Once these losses are covered, they then rush back to the safe haven of gold. They don't see BTC as a haven of security but treat BTC as any other "risky investment". In a time of panic, I can sell gold on the street to anyone in exchange from burgers to cars. With BTC, I will be called a joker. :-[

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Trading is all about supply and demand. As long as the supply and demand are there, you can easily trade it. You can sell gold on the streets, same thing you can easily sell your BTC online. It's quite clear that you couldn't accept the changes on future technology.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 14, 2020, 03:45:59 AM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You post the "only" beginning since the price at USD 2k. Trading involve risk, everybody knows that. If you couldn't accept the nature of volatility, don't trade.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 14, 2020, 10:46:47 AM
The current crisis is wrecking all the markets though, not just Bitcoin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: FLechdrop on March 14, 2020, 01:21:34 PM
This was a liquidity crisis. We may get more of that. I don't see Bitcoin dying from it. After the panic is over and central banks keep printing billions and trillions, any inflation hedge should do pretty well. If the Bitcoin rollercoaster is too volatile for your stomach, either just don't put too much in it or buy gold.

Bitcoin has more potential upside, but also more risk.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 14, 2020, 02:14:03 PM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You post the "only" beginning since the price at USD 2k. Trading involve risk, everybody knows that. If you couldn't accept the nature of volatility, don't trade.

Volatility and foolish risk, are not the same.

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 14, 2020, 02:19:18 PM
Where is BTC? Currently at 7,779.66 United States Dollar and falling.

Where is BTC, the "gold equivalent to security". Where are those promoting the virtuous of this panacea of safety, hiding?

While the traditional reserve to safety, REAL, SOLID GOLD, has skyrocketed, BTC and others have hit the sewers.

Sad, to say, "I told you so!" Wait,  there is more to come after May. No tears for greed and ignorance. :'(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Still more profitable than gold... Gold instead of going up they sell it too so they can cover the losses... It should be over 1.7k and it's not. Let's see at the end of the year how it goes. But don't worry BTC can have a losing year like 2018 too... It's the longterm view that is important...

You made my point: When the markets go into panic: Investors initially sell gold reserves to cover their margin calls.  Once these losses are covered, they then rush back to the safe haven of gold. They don't see BTC as a haven of security but treat BTC as any other "risky investment". In a time of panic, I can sell gold on the street to anyone in exchange from burgers to cars. With BTC, I will be called a joker. :-[

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Trading is all about supply and demand. As long as the supply and demand are there, you can easily trade it. You can sell gold on the streets, same thing you can easily sell your BTC online. It's quite clear that you couldn't accept the changes on future technology.

As a scientist and teacher, I think I know and use most technology than most. But I am smart enough not to be fooled by scammers who sell hot air to the naive and ignorant.

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 14, 2020, 03:33:58 PM
All financial instruments are air... We decide the value. Most scams stil happen with classic USD...

I will buy more BTC at 3k and 2k area if it goes there.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 14, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
All financial instruments are air... We decide the value. Most scams stil happen with classic USD...

I will buy more BTC at 3k and 2k area if it goes there.

And so you should, every seller will be more than happy to take your fiat money in exchange with a laugh.
Just like they exchange chips at the casino for fiat money.



Regards,
Humble Trader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: peter_s on March 15, 2020, 07:04:02 AM
It's a crazy world when US government dollar bonds move into negative yield territory and are STILL in demand - presumably as a deflation hedge - but appears to confirm that fiat is well and truly in control!

WE are nearly at the point we reached in the last financial crisis of maximum doom and gloom and governments throwing even more $trillions to try and shore things up - however, this time we have $ trillions of corporate bond debt to add to the equation, with the likes of WeWork and British Airways running on empty. We can't keep riding this debt down with governments giving away ever-cheaper borrowing  - sooner or later the bubble has to burst..the question is when and how. I think it will be inevitable that the UK government will become partial owners of some of the more essential services such as some airlines...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 15, 2020, 07:32:20 AM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You post the "only" beginning since the price at USD 2k. Trading involve risk, everybody knows that. If you couldn't accept the nature of volatility, don't trade.

Volatility and foolish risk, are not the same.

Regards,
Humble Trader

Do you think that's call foolish? How about the coronavirus epidemic? I just saw a post that someone buy 10 N95 mask for NZD 450, which equivalent to NZD 45 each. Texas are selling for USD 7 each, Canada about USD 18 each. I can easily get N95 mask stock in China for about USD 2-3, I mean easily with profit too. The highest price which we can see in Japan selling about USD 60 per N95 mask.

Again, it is all about supply and demand.  That's how it works in trading, no matter in financial or real world. It's the same thing. Who cares about your mindset when the demands are out there.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2020, 09:21:35 AM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You post the "only" beginning since the price at USD 2k. Trading involve risk, everybody knows that. If you couldn't accept the nature of volatility, don't trade.

Volatility and foolish risk, are not the same.

Regards,
Humble Trader

Do you think that's call foolish? How about the coronavirus epidemic? I just saw a post that someone buy 10 N95 mask for NZD 450, which equivalent to NZD 45 each. Texas are selling for USD 7 each, Canada about USD 18 each. I can easily get N95 mask stock in China for about USD 2-3, I mean easily with profit too. The highest price which we can see in Japan selling about USD 60 per N95 mask.

Again, it is all about supply and demand.  That's how it works in trading, no matter in financial or real world. It's the same thing. Who cares about your mindset when the demands are out there.

Then why do you quote everything in USD and not in BTC. Is there anyone out there with "your mindset", selling these items in BTC? I bet you there are thousands out there, selling BTC in exchange for anything worthwhile.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: peter_s on March 15, 2020, 10:38:40 AM
BTC still faces major issues:

1) Cost of producing the software is massive, not only in terms of infrastructure & servers etc but environmental costs of the HUGE power consumption required... it cost 26000 USD to mine just one bitcoin in South Korea!

2) Security - scams and hacking make this a VERY vulnerable asset, in that there is no guarantor - if stolen it's lost for good.

3) General acceptance  - very risky to hold an asset that has yet to reach broad global acceptance.

4) Volatility - just look at the 24-month price chart!

5) Lack of regulation and standardisation -  why would countries want to regulate when their financial frameworks are deeply entrenched in FIAT.

Having said all that there are obvious advantages in using BTC and similar methods - as I am sure have already been discussed - not least removal of rip off banking charges!
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2020, 01:01:05 PM
BTC still faces major issues:

1) Cost of producing the software is massive, not only in terms of infrastructure & servers etc but environmental costs of the HUGE power consumption required... it cost 26000 USD to mine just one bitcoin in South Korea!

2) Security - scams and hacking make this a VERY vulnerable asset, in that there is no guarantor - if stolen it's lost for good.

3) General acceptance  - very risky to hold an asset that has yet to reach broad global acceptance.

4) Volatility - just look at the 24-month price chart!

5) Lack of regulation and standardisation -  why would countries want to regulate when their financial frameworks are deeply entrenched in FIAT.

Having said all that there are obvious advantages in using BTC and similar methods - as I am sure have already been discussed - not least removal of rip off banking charges!

One as important as the above mentioned, as with casinos, the only ones making "sure money", are the pedlers and scammers pusching cryptos.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: plamar on March 15, 2020, 01:21:03 PM
When line goes down, pants go brown.  ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 15, 2020, 05:19:59 PM
Wissam Al Mana, a Qatari billionaire, business magnate and ex-husband of pop star Janet Jackson has launched a court action against Facebook in a Dublin court (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/qatari-billionaire-sues-facebook-over-bogus-crypto-ads) over fake crypto ads, published on the social media.

The series of bogus advertisements promoting fake crypto investments were featuring Al Mana name and image.

The Qatari businessman is claiming defamation, malicious falsehood and false advertising by a crypto currency company, that Facebook allowed to advertise on its network.

This is "only" the beginning, wait till BTC and others start falling apart and people lose BIG dollars; all those pedlers of hot air, will be on the run and not find a place to hide.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

You post the "only" beginning since the price at USD 2k. Trading involve risk, everybody knows that. If you couldn't accept the nature of volatility, don't trade.

Volatility and foolish risk, are not the same.

Regards,
Humble Trader

Do you think that's call foolish? How about the coronavirus epidemic? I just saw a post that someone buy 10 N95 mask for NZD 450, which equivalent to NZD 45 each. Texas are selling for USD 7 each, Canada about USD 18 each. I can easily get N95 mask stock in China for about USD 2-3, I mean easily with profit too. The highest price which we can see in Japan selling about USD 60 per N95 mask.

Again, it is all about supply and demand.  That's how it works in trading, no matter in financial or real world. It's the same thing. Who cares about your mindset when the demands are out there.

Then why do you quote everything in USD and not in BTC. Is there anyone out there with "your mindset", selling these items in BTC? I bet you there are thousands out there, selling BTC in exchange for anything worthwhile.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

LoL. It's just the same thing with USD that maybe will collapse in near future, we just don't know when it will happen but we started to see the world fight back against "Petrodollar" (Venezuela, Iran and Russia can be a good example if you don't know that).

To me it has no difference. You buy your groceries with USD because people admit the value of USD. It's the same with BTC, as long as someone willing to buy your BTC. But the good thing is you cannot print BTC yourself just like what the FED does with the Quantitative Easing by helicoptering money into the economy.

I guess you haven't have a chance to visit China yet. I couldn't spend out my RMB 600 fiat currencies in 6 months time because basically no people wants your fiat and almost everything through mobile payment, even if you just wanted to purchase a piece of cake and a glass of chill beverages. It's just the matter of when the whole world will adopt to the whole new system that totally eliminate fiat.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 15, 2020, 05:30:34 PM
BTC still faces major issues:

1) Cost of producing the software is massive, not only in terms of infrastructure & servers etc but environmental costs of the HUGE power consumption required... it cost 26000 USD to mine just one bitcoin in South Korea!

2) Security - scams and hacking make this a VERY vulnerable asset, in that there is no guarantor - if stolen it's lost for good.

3) General acceptance  - very risky to hold an asset that has yet to reach broad global acceptance.

4) Volatility - just look at the 24-month price chart!

5) Lack of regulation and standardisation -  why would countries want to regulate when their financial frameworks are deeply entrenched in FIAT.

Having said all that there are obvious advantages in using BTC and similar methods - as I am sure have already been discussed - not least removal of rip off banking charges!

One as important as the above mentioned, as with casinos, the only ones making "sure money", are the pedlers and scammers pusching cryptos.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

I believe no people in financial field will deny that the financial world is just another huge casino, which require more skills and educations to participate. A good great example on last Thursday, the World's Top 500 Richest people in the world lost more than 330 billion into thin air on a single day which is more value than the whole crypto market cap.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on March 15, 2020, 11:38:09 PM
Since bitcoin become popular than many people involved in such investment program, just yesterday I am getting message from a telegram from someone that not yet I know before and offer investment in BTC with return 10% only 24 hours
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 15, 2020, 11:44:51 PM
BTC still faces major issues:

1) Cost of producing the software is massive, not only in terms of infrastructure & servers etc but environmental costs of the HUGE power consumption required... it cost 26000 USD to mine just one bitcoin in South Korea!

2) Security - scams and hacking make this a VERY vulnerable asset, in that there is no guarantor - if stolen it's lost for good.

3) General acceptance  - very risky to hold an asset that has yet to reach broad global acceptance.

4) Volatility - just look at the 24-month price chart!

5) Lack of regulation and standardisation -  why would countries want to regulate when their financial frameworks are deeply entrenched in FIAT.

Having said all that there are obvious advantages in using BTC and similar methods - as I am sure have already been discussed - not least removal of rip off banking charges!

One as important as the above mentioned, as with casinos, the only ones making "sure money", are the pedlers and scammers pusching cryptos.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

I believe no people in financial field will deny that the financial world is just another huge casino, which require more skills and educations to participate. A good great example on last Thursday, the World's Top 500 Richest people in the world lost more than 330 billion into thin air on a single day which is more value than the whole crypto market cap.

Agreed. And these same people have even more billions in reserve to get back into the market. What do BTC and other crypto holders have in reserve to sustain themselves and get back into the market if they got in at 5k-10k?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 16, 2020, 04:35:54 AM
BTC still faces major issues:

1) Cost of producing the software is massive, not only in terms of infrastructure & servers etc but environmental costs of the HUGE power consumption required... it cost 26000 USD to mine just one bitcoin in South Korea!

2) Security - scams and hacking make this a VERY vulnerable asset, in that there is no guarantor - if stolen it's lost for good.

3) General acceptance  - very risky to hold an asset that has yet to reach broad global acceptance.

4) Volatility - just look at the 24-month price chart!

5) Lack of regulation and standardisation -  why would countries want to regulate when their financial frameworks are deeply entrenched in FIAT.

Having said all that there are obvious advantages in using BTC and similar methods - as I am sure have already been discussed - not least removal of rip off banking charges!

One as important as the above mentioned, as with casinos, the only ones making "sure money", are the pedlers and scammers pusching cryptos.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

I believe no people in financial field will deny that the financial world is just another huge casino, which require more skills and educations to participate. A good great example on last Thursday, the World's Top 500 Richest people in the world lost more than 330 billion into thin air on a single day which is more value than the whole crypto market cap.

Agreed. And these same people have even more billions in reserve to get back into the market. What do BTC and other crypto holders have in reserve to sustain themselves and get back into the market if they got in at 5k-10k?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

As I mentioned earlier, if someone wants to get into trading world, they have to understand the risk involvement. They cannot blame anyone or the instrument they traded because it is because of their greed and lack of knowledge that causes their losses, not BTC. I even got scolded by someone last time when I advise someone to sell when the price was around 18k.
 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 16, 2020, 12:28:05 PM
This was a liquidity crisis. We may get more of that. I don't see Bitcoin dying from it. After the panic is over and central banks keep printing billions and trillions, any inflation hedge should do pretty well. If the Bitcoin rollercoaster is too volatile for your stomach, either just don't put too much in it or buy gold.

Bitcoin has more potential upside, but also more risk.
I really hope you're right. The future looks bleak to me.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Forex21 on March 16, 2020, 01:26:38 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 16, 2020, 03:15:23 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.

I don't think you can define BTC as a "trading instrument". BTC is more like bubblegum trading cards, that enthusiasts may collect, sell and trade amongst themselves but not serious trading instruments for "serious" traders; although peddlers and scammers of such would like the public to believe so.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6298b546-3de2-469a-8755-094fef3c8e9a

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 16, 2020, 03:32:22 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.

I don't think you can define BTC as a "trading instrument". BTC is more like bubblegum trading cards, that enthusiasts may collect, sell and trade amongst themselves but not serious trading instruments for "serious" traders; although peddlers and scammers of such would like the public to believe so.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6298b546-3de2-469a-8755-094fef3c8e9a

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Actually I am not against you to say BTC is the best. I believe all financial instruments have no difference including the equity market. Those so called valuation sometime out of the line. (WeWork and Theranos are the few example).

Why some people willing to invest in BTC? I believe instead looking the future of BTC, most of them are looking to invest into blockchain technology. USDT, Libra or other stable coin is just another great example. They will give you some digit to exchange your fiat currencies and as long as the circulation created, they can safely put your fiat into their pocket and earn interest without paying you interest.

We have to admit the world is changing and we are using fiat lesser everyday. I believe most people are happy to go out without their wallet, but will go crazy if they forgot to bring their mobile phone. The trend is already there and if we reject to accept the fact, we will missed some opportunity.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 16, 2020, 04:41:24 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.

I don't think you can define BTC as a "trading instrument". BTC is more like bubblegum trading cards, that enthusiasts may collect, sell and trade amongst themselves but not serious trading instruments for "serious" traders; although peddlers and scammers of such would like the public to believe so.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6298b546-3de2-469a-8755-094fef3c8e9a

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Actually I am not against you to say BTC is the best. I believe all financial instruments have no difference including the equity market. Those so called valuation sometime out of the line. (WeWork and Theranos are the few example).

Why some people willing to invest in BTC? I believe instead looking the future of BTC, most of them are looking to invest into blockchain technology. USDT, Libra or other stable coin is just another great example. They will give you some digit to exchange your fiat currencies and as long as the circulation created, they can safely put your fiat into their pocket and earn interest without paying you interest.

We have to admit the world is changing and we are using fiat lesser everyday. I believe most people are happy to go out without their wallet, but will go crazy if they forgot to bring their mobile phone. The trend is already there and if we reject to accept the fact, we will missed some opportunity.
[/quote

Excellent! Now you have summarised exactly what I have been saying since the very beginning:

1) Blockchain and something akin to blockchain "distributive ledger" system, will become adopted by the world monetary system, and ONLY controled by them.

2) Digital currencies like, "like BTC, but NOT BTC", will become common usage but "only" if they are not "crypto" and "only" at the control and distribution of governmental authorities, be it the world bank, or central governments, just like they have control over fiat currencies.

In fact, we have been using digital currencies in a way, through the use of credit/debit cards with the main drawback that they are under the control of retail banks and as such, add an extra cost to transactions which normally should not, adding to unwanted inflation of prices.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 16, 2020, 05:40:31 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.

I don't think you can define BTC as a "trading instrument". BTC is more like bubblegum trading cards, that enthusiasts may collect, sell and trade amongst themselves but not serious trading instruments for "serious" traders; although peddlers and scammers of such would like the public to believe so.

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=6298b546-3de2-469a-8755-094fef3c8e9a

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Actually I am not against you to say BTC is the best. I believe all financial instruments have no difference including the equity market. Those so called valuation sometime out of the line. (WeWork and Theranos are the few example).

Why some people willing to invest in BTC? I believe instead looking the future of BTC, most of them are looking to invest into blockchain technology. USDT, Libra or other stable coin is just another great example. They will give you some digit to exchange your fiat currencies and as long as the circulation created, they can safely put your fiat into their pocket and earn interest without paying you interest.

We have to admit the world is changing and we are using fiat lesser everyday. I believe most people are happy to go out without their wallet, but will go crazy if they forgot to bring their mobile phone. The trend is already there and if we reject to accept the fact, we will missed some opportunity.
[/quote

Excellent! Now you have summarised exactly what I have been saying since the very beginning:

1) Blockchain and something akin to blockchain "distributive ledger" system, will become adopted by the world monetary system, and ONLY controled by them.

2) Digital currencies like, "like BTC, but NOT BTC", will become common usage but "only" if they are not "crypto" and "only" at the control and distribution of governmental authorities, be it the world bank, or central governments, just like they have control over fiat currencies.

In fact, we have been using digital currencies in a way, through the use of credit/debit cards with the main drawback that they are under the control of retail banks and as such, add an extra cost to transactions which normally should not, adding to unwanted inflation of prices.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

I have to 100% agree with you that in a way we are already using digital currencies. For example in China, we can see Alipay or Wechat Pay, in Taiwan LinePay the most common, Vietnam with ZaloPay and VienPay, in Malaysia a couple like GrabPay, BoostPay etc trying to penetrate the market and so on. In Europe lesser because most of them are still using Credit/Debit as you mentioned. You can buy a train ticket with your Credit/Debit in Europe, but most Asian countries now are using Mobile Payment.

Why BTC price are much higher than others? Because it is the one who introduce the whole blockchain technology. Why Ethereum come second? Mainly because the transaction and fees are much faster compare to BTC. As I previous mentioned, human greed that causes problem. They always dream that there will be another BTC coming out so they can turn their 1k into 1 million and this is the main reason they will go and invest all those altcoin which I think it is the most silly dream they ever had. Some people launch their own coin with one simple reason, they want to print their own money. Just like Libra and why those regulatory reject lobbying? Imagine if all your future money issue by Mark Zuckeberg, LoL.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on March 16, 2020, 05:41:05 PM
I think it's time to buy bitcoin because the price is very attractive it can easily soar to 10K after the dust settles down. Going to open long with Hotforex spreads are very tight dunno why.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: FLechdrop on March 16, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
I think it's time to buy bitcoin because the price is very attractive it can easily soar to 10K after the dust settles down. Going to open long with Hotforex spreads are very tight dunno why.

Better just buy directly, without leverage...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on March 16, 2020, 07:21:40 PM
I have to 100% agree with you that in a way we are already using digital currencies. For example in China, we can see Alipay or Wechat Pay, in Taiwan LinePay the most common, Vietnam with ZaloPay and VienPay, in Malaysia a couple like GrabPay, BoostPay etc trying to penetrate the market and so on. In Europe lesser because most of them are still using Credit/Debit as you mentioned. You can buy a train ticket with your Credit/Debit in Europe, but most Asian countries now are using Mobile Payment.

Why BTC price are much higher than others? Because it is the one who introduce the whole blockchain technology. Why Ethereum come second? Mainly because the transaction and fees are much faster compare to BTC. As I previous mentioned, human greed that causes problem. They always dream that there will be another BTC coming out so they can turn their 1k into 1 million and this is the main reason they will go and invest all those altcoin which I think it is the most silly dream they ever had. Some people launch their own coin with one simple reason, they want to print their own money. Just like Libra and why those regulatory reject lobbying? Imagine if all your future money issue by Mark Zuckeberg, LoL.

ETH is second because it was first alternative cryptocurrency aka altcoin with smart contracts. You can use it as a notary service on a blockchain... Technology is here, but corrupt people don't want to use it, because it will show exactly where the money goes and as you know not all want this...

The problem persists we need a digital asset like gold to be outside the control of banks, governments etc. and BTC is good enough for this, but since it opened door to Wallstreet it can be manipulated like gold. You can clearly see what is going on now, instead of gold being above 1.7k it's at 1.4k as somebody is putting sell pressure on it. Big capital is moving money...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 16, 2020, 07:49:18 PM
I have to 100% agree with you that in a way we are already using digital currencies. For example in China, we can see Alipay or Wechat Pay, in Taiwan LinePay the most common, Vietnam with ZaloPay and VienPay, in Malaysia a couple like GrabPay, BoostPay etc trying to penetrate the market and so on. In Europe lesser because most of them are still using Credit/Debit as you mentioned. You can buy a train ticket with your Credit/Debit in Europe, but most Asian countries now are using Mobile Payment.

Why BTC price are much higher than others? Because it is the one who introduce the whole blockchain technology. Why Ethereum come second? Mainly because the transaction and fees are much faster compare to BTC. As I previous mentioned, human greed that causes problem. They always dream that there will be another BTC coming out so they can turn their 1k into 1 million and this is the main reason they will go and invest all those altcoin which I think it is the most silly dream they ever had. Some people launch their own coin with one simple reason, they want to print their own money. Just like Libra and why those regulatory reject lobbying? Imagine if all your future money issue by Mark Zuckeberg, LoL.

ETH is second because it was first alternative cryptocurrency aka altcoin with smart contracts. You can use it as a notary service on a blockchain... Technology is here, but corrupt people don't want to use it, because it will show exactly where the money goes and as you know not all want this...

The problem persists we need a digital asset like gold to be outside the control of banks, governments etc. and BTC is good enough for this, but since it opened door to Wallstreet it can be manipulated like gold. You can clearly see what is going on now, instead of gold being above 1.7k it's at 1.4k as somebody is putting sell pressure on it. Big capital is moving money...

Exactly. If as HumbleTrader mentioned, BTC or ETH are still controlled by the government or bank, then I don't see a point for us to have crypto in any way.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on March 19, 2020, 09:59:50 AM
The markets are crashing, cryptocurrencies are crashing too, but the Opera browser people decided now (https://deposit-withdraw.com/opera-browser-allows-for-crypto-purchasing-in-the-us/) it's a good time to hop onto the crypto train. I don't get some people.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 19, 2020, 10:07:14 AM
The markets are crashing, cryptocurrencies are crashing too, but the Opera browser people decided now (https://deposit-withdraw.com/opera-browser-allows-for-crypto-purchasing-in-the-us/) it's a good time to hop onto the crypto train. I don't get some people.

Yeah, a "genius" move: Why buy such useless stocks as Alibaba (BABA), Amazon, Costco or Tech stocks, buy BTC and other cryptos, you are bound to make a killing. Maybe you jumping out of the window will give you an even better return...one way that is.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: iMusingKiMi on March 20, 2020, 06:11:23 PM
Why discuss if a trading instrument is good or bad?
Those who lost money with it will tend to say it is bad and those who made money with it will say it is great.

But the bottom line is that it is just a trading instrument with great volatility. And volatility means opportunities.

Exactly and to me, volatility means opportunity. I just started a project and signed a contract with a company to work on collateral loan for major crypto. This is also because of the volatility which we can see the opportunity. What instruments you can find in the market with an average of 50% and stay above 40% for such a long time other than IPO shares?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on May 09, 2020, 10:28:55 AM
BTC halving coming in few days. Price already showing the potential. It seems BTC is again the best performing asset on the market...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 10, 2020, 07:26:24 PM
BTC halving coming in few days. Price already showing the potential. It seems BTC is again the best performing asset on the market...


I am afraid the opposite is happening: The only reason BTC, has held above 6K, is because of May 20th’s "hope"!
Once that takes place, run to cash in or rather stand in line, to cash in at any price!  :'(



Best of luck.

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on May 14, 2020, 12:20:08 AM
Sometimes the real market tell opposite with expectation, many traders hope later after halving on this month then price will move to rise further, but if happen is a price drop, maybe many traders will shock and they facing the loss
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 14, 2020, 03:06:05 PM
The IRS is looking for contractors who will facilitate the taxing of cryptocurrency profits in the United States of America. (https://deposit-withdraw.com/irs-scouting-for-contractors-to-review-cryptos-tax-returns/)
The agency is looking for such outside services so that they will calculate people’s profits and losses from digital currency exchange activity.
The IRS so far has contacted two companies – one is yet unnamed, the other is called CryptoTrader.Tax, the latter of which has rejected the proposition.
If there's a profit somewhere the IRS won't miss out on taxing it. :D
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 14, 2020, 04:26:57 PM
The IRS is looking for contractors who will facilitate the taxing of cryptocurrency profits in the United States of America. (https://deposit-withdraw.com/irs-scouting-for-contractors-to-review-cryptos-tax-returns/)
The agency is looking for such outside services so that they will calculate people’s profits and losses from digital currency exchange activity.
The IRS so far has contacted two companies – one is yet unnamed, the other is called CryptoTrader.Tax, the latter of which has rejected the proposition.
If there's a profit somewhere the IRS won't miss out on taxing it. :D

And with that, the Justice Department will now begin asking, "how was that money earned" or "illegally obtained"? I guess there goes the prefix crypto and there go BTC's and others to boot.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on May 15, 2020, 05:05:52 AM
Guys what's your bitcoin bias for the next week? Second and now successful test of 10K, first one was resistance play, right?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 20, 2020, 11:58:30 PM
Not being a BTC or any other crypto enthusiast, I guess I must have missed the party, the "halving" extravaganza that is. I expected the streets to be filled with millionaires, change that, billionaire crypto owners, touting their new riches... where did they go?

Perhaps it's because of the virus? Yet old reliable GOLD, is trudging on-increment, slowly and steadily?  I know, wait until next year, and the year after that, the BTC mantra. I wonder if John McAfee has any "lower" flesh left?

Please Opportunis, enlighten us. ???


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on May 24, 2020, 11:57:06 PM
Halving the cause reward mining reducing by half, if previous reward miner still get 12.5 BTC but now after halving the miner only get 6.25 BTC, the scenario behind halving is increasing value BTC, with the smallest reward will decreasing mining Bitcoin and possible the cause value being higher, if look back on the previous halving, the effect is not instant, but after few years the value indeed arise, this difference with a fiat currency that printed according to the needs, Bitcoin limited 21million block
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 25, 2020, 12:10:07 AM
Halving the cause reward mining reducing by half, if previous reward miner still get 12.5 BTC but now after halving the miner only get 6.25 BTC, the scenario behind halving is increasing value BTC, with the smallest reward will decreasing mining Bitcoin and possible the cause value being higher, if look back on the previous halving, the effect is not instant, but after few years the value indeed arise, this difference with a fiat currency that printed according to the needs, Bitcoin limited 21million block


Like I said, the mantra is in intact, “Wait till next year.”. In the mean time, BTC, has dropped since I last posted.

Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on May 28, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
The Russian government is about to criminalize crypto transactions (https://theforexreview.com/2020/05/27/russia-intends-to-ban-all-cryptocurrencies/) throughout its territory. The ban proposal defines crypto as property and prohibits their circulation and issuance on Russian grounds.

The proposes legislation is concerned primarily with the administrative and criminal violation of rules involved in all cryptocurrency transactions.

As soon as this becomes a law, it will inhibit individuals and organisations to operate with any crypto coin, including the processing of payments for any services or goods.

The fines for an individual who organizes any type of crypto circulation or is involved in the issuance of digital currencies ranges from 50k rubles ($700 on average) to 500k rubles ($7 000). For organisations found guilty for these same crimes, the penalty fees are up to 2 million rubles, amounting to approximately $28k.

Furthermore, Russian authorities can also imprison parties for up to 7 years. The time depends on the scale of the illegal operation, but also on the damage this activity has caused to the Russian financial system.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 28, 2020, 04:14:05 PM
The Russian government is about to criminalize crypto transactions (https://theforexreview.com/2020/05/27/russia-intends-to-ban-all-cryptocurrencies/) throughout its territory. The ban proposal defines crypto as property and prohibits their circulation and issuance on Russian grounds.

The proposes legislation is concerned primarily with the administrative and criminal violation of rules involved in all cryptocurrency transactions.

As soon as this becomes a law, it will inhibit individuals and organisations to operate with any crypto coin, including the processing of payments for any services or goods.

The fines for an individual who organizes any type of crypto circulation or is involved in the issuance of digital currencies ranges from 50k rubles ($700 on average) to 500k rubles ($7 000). For organisations found guilty for these same crimes, the penalty fees are up to 2 million rubles, amounting to approximately $28k.

Furthermore, Russian authorities can also imprison parties for up to 7 years. The time depends on the scale of the illegal operation, but also on the damage this activity has caused to the Russian financial system.


Another nail in the Crypto world coffin. If this is adopted and other former Soviet countries adopt the same, it will remove a large chunk of Crypto transactions since this is the best way in which shady underworld characters have been able to move huge sums out of these counties.

9,446.90 United States Dollar.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on May 28, 2020, 10:21:59 PM
I think Bitcoin still will facing many barriers about government regulation, if likely followed by many countries will ban for Bitcoin, it will make the value of Bitcoin may decrease again, but hopefully, it will not happen and concept Bitcoin as digital money anti-inflation can achieved
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on May 29, 2020, 08:17:00 AM
I think Bitcoin still will facing many barriers about government regulation, if likely followed by many countries will ban for Bitcoin, it will make the value of Bitcoin may decrease again, but hopefully, it will not happen and concept Bitcoin as digital money anti-inflation can achieved

You must believe that BTC is a religion then? So keep "hoping" and praying, something is bound to happen eventually; it always does. Perhaps, Satoshi Nakamoto, will reveal himself/herself and all the BTC believers can have a crypto revelation.

9,530.29 United States Dollar.

Regards,
HumbleTrader, of this world.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on June 01, 2020, 12:15:07 AM
I think Bitcoin still will facing many barriers about government regulation, if likely followed by many countries will ban for Bitcoin, it will make the value of Bitcoin may decrease again, but hopefully, it will not happen and concept Bitcoin as digital money anti-inflation can achieved

You must believe that BTC is a religion then? So keep "hoping" and praying, something is bound to happen eventually; it always does. Perhaps, Satoshi Nakamoto, will reveal himself/herself and all the BTC believers can have a crypto revelation.

9,530.29 United States Dollar.

Regards,
HumbleTrader, of this world.

Yes, the world always changing, sometimes the old system replaced by new system, if compared with flat money, Bitcoin like as gold, issued only limited, while flat money will be printed if needs create new flat money, it could increase inflation, many benefit to use bitcoin indeed, fast and low cost transfer around the world.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on June 01, 2020, 03:33:22 PM
I think Bitcoin still will facing many barriers about government regulation, if likely followed by many countries will ban for Bitcoin, it will make the value of Bitcoin may decrease again, but hopefully, it will not happen and concept Bitcoin as digital money anti-inflation can achieved

You must believe that BTC is a religion then? So keep "hoping" and praying, something is bound to happen eventually; it always does. Perhaps, Satoshi Nakamoto, will reveal himself/herself and all the BTC believers can have a crypto revelation.

9,530.29 United States Dollar.

Regards,
HumbleTrader, of this world.

Yes, the world always changing, sometimes the old system replaced by new system, if compared with flat money, Bitcoin like as gold, issued only limited, while flat money will be printed if needs create new flat money, it could increase inflation, many benefit to use bitcoin indeed, fast and low cost transfer around the world.

I think you need to read back to the discussions made about BTC. you sound like a BTC preacher.

1- BTC is nothing like Gold. Gold is a physical entity that has been used as a value for exchange and trusted the world over. It is "legal" tender and accumulated by all governments (The nations of the world had 34,700 tons of gold reserves,). Although nations have agreed to use fiat currencies via an international agreement, their trust of each other only goes so far. As such, they still keep reserves of gold as final security. Do you think, nations will trust a digital currency that is manufactured by a digital device with no accountability?

2- Take a gold coin to the corner store and they will be more than happy to exchange it for food. Go to the corner store and try to buy bubble gum and they will laugh at you.

3- As far as inflation you mention, have proof of what you claim, or are you just voicing or preaching the hot air that BTC peddlers have marketed to you to get you hooked?

BTC, has zero value except for that gullible enough to have parted with their fiat currencies for a prayer. Amin, BTC preacher.


BTC 9,581.45 United States Dollar.

Regards,
HumbleTrader  8)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on June 02, 2020, 12:44:11 AM
In terms of legality, bitcoin does not get legality in various countries, this is a phenomenon that arises from people who are dissatisfied with the current banking financial system. I'm not saying bitcoin is gold, but it's just like gold in terms of limited numbers in the world.

Is flat money no inflation? some cases give a signal when the money supply is overflowing, while the number of transactions does not increase, this can cause inflation.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on June 02, 2020, 12:49:04 AM
In terms of legality, bitcoin does not get legality in various countries, this is a phenomenon that arises from people who are dissatisfied with the current banking financial system. I'm not saying bitcoin is gold, but it's just like gold in terms of limited numbers in the world.

Is flat money no inflation? some cases give a signal when the money supply is overflowing, while the number of transactions does not increase, this can cause inflation.

Come back to us when you can prove with factual, verified numbers, that BTC  appreciates as Gold does, relating to inflation. The rest is just sales pitches from those who peddle cryptos to the gullible.

Regards,
HumbleTrader



Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on June 04, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
The famous British financial technology company Revolut reported a surge in clients' trading in digital currencies. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/revolut-jump-demand-crypto) The official data released by the London based company showcased that the number of users who traded in April increased by 68%, a fact undoubtedly having its roots in the COVID-19 caused lock down.
People apparently started investing in it after the drop in price at the beginning of the pandemic. Whether that is sustainable in the long term remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on June 11, 2020, 10:51:42 PM
Crypto exchange Quadriga was a fraud and the founder was running Ponzi scheme, OSC report finds.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/osc-quadriga-gerald-cotten-1.5607990

"The Quadriga cryptocurrency exchange that saw millions of dollars disappear just as its founder died was a "fraud" and Ponzi scheme, according to the Ontario Securities Commission."

The question that all cryptocurrency owners should be asking, "Is the money there?" I mean: Who sets up these exchanges anyway? Under what authority are they legal, inspected and controlled like banks?

As far as I understand, a bank is obliged under the banking rules set up and governed by the state central bank,  to give you a dollar for dollar exchange. In other words, if you go to the bank with a ten-dollar bill, all they are obliged to do is give you the equivalent in smaller/larger fiat denominations, like ten one-dollar bills. They have no obligation to exchange a 10$ USD bill, with any other currency, Yen, EU  or other. The same would apply to cryptos like BTC.

The exchanges have "no obligation" to give you so many fiat currencies in exchange for one BTC; there is NO central authority to oblige them to do anything!. And if the exchange refuses to give you anything but parts of a BTC or gives you less, to what authority can you turn for justice?

At least with gold, no problem: If the bank refuses to exchange a 16 oz. gold bar, just walk out into the street or post an add and you will have multiple calls offering you fiat currencies or other forms in exchange in no time.

If you have been following the stock market the past months with regards to the Cornivirus pandemic, you would have noticed that Gold reacts inversely to what is taking part in the stock market. When the stock market goes up, gold value drops, and vice versa. When assets are in danger, the security of gold appreciates! (There is always a delay a trading day or two as investors liquidate their gold holdings in order to raise the cash needed to meet market calls and cover losses.)

In the case of BTC, all you read, "It's going to", "It's about to" and other prayers to the crypto culture God John McAfee's thing to grow again.  :P


Regards,
HumbleTrader


 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on July 21, 2020, 12:13:42 AM
Hello, Crypto enthusiasts.

Gold hit 1865.5$ and climbimg, and still bullish. As long as people are insecure about the future, it will continue to climb, take profit, retrace and climb again. How is the so-called "golden crypto BTC", fairing these days, nervous of a downfall? Hold your breath by week's end, an amazing surprise is about to materialize.  :'(

Let us know when it will hit, $2.6 million:" McAfee made waves in the cryptocurrency world by claiming that each Bitcoin would be worth half a million dollars by 2020. He went on to predict that Bitcoin could even reach as much as $2.6 million in the same time frame." Ah, what dreams are made from.  :(


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on July 30, 2020, 03:13:27 PM
So the Philippines have decided (https://theforexreview.com/2020/07/30/philippine-central-bank-considers-a-centralised-cryptocurrency/) to launch their own digital currency. It seems to be a trend in many parts of Asia, do you think it is a good idea?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on July 30, 2020, 03:19:46 PM
So the Philippines have decided (https://theforexreview.com/2020/07/30/philippine-central-bank-considers-a-centralised-cryptocurrency/) to launch their own digital currency. It seems to be a trend in many parts of Asia, do you think it is a good idea?

I think many countries are looking to using "cryptocurrencies" as a backdoor way of moving away from the US dollar as the pegged currency. As things are going with the US losing by flooding the markets with dollars, they will more likely revert back to the gold standard, especially now that gold is proving without a doubt at almost 2000$, that it is considered the "currency" of safe haven world over.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on August 04, 2020, 07:05:25 AM
So the Philippines have decided (https://theforexreview.com/2020/07/30/philippine-central-bank-considers-a-centralised-cryptocurrency/) to launch their own digital currency. It seems to be a trend in many parts of Asia, do you think it is a good idea?

it is not the same to crypto it is a way to facilitate emission of money (supply) and make payments easier between big financial players. I think it needs some time to use it on the scale of economy. For now it is more a technical tool.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on August 17, 2020, 03:04:43 PM
So the Philippines have decided (https://theforexreview.com/2020/07/30/philippine-central-bank-considers-a-centralised-cryptocurrency/) to launch their own digital currency. It seems to be a trend in many parts of Asia, do you think it is a good idea?

I think many countries are looking to using "cryptocurrencies" as a backdoor way of moving away from the US dollar as the pegged currency. As things are going with the US losing by flooding the markets with dollars, they will more likely revert back to the gold standard, especially now that gold is proving without a doubt at almost 2000$, that it is considered the "currency" of safe haven world over.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

FIAT will never be backed by gold again. If this happens the monetary system collapses...

BTC still outperforming gold by far this year from 3.3k to 12k ;)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 17, 2020, 03:11:12 PM
So the Philippines have decided (https://theforexreview.com/2020/07/30/philippine-central-bank-considers-a-centralised-cryptocurrency/) to launch their own digital currency. It seems to be a trend in many parts of Asia, do you think it is a good idea?

I think many countries are looking to using "cryptocurrencies" as a backdoor way of moving away from the US dollar as the pegged currency. As things are going with the US losing by flooding the markets with dollars, they will more likely revert back to the gold standard, especially now that gold is proving without a doubt at almost 2000$, that it is considered the "currency" of safe haven world over.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

FIAT will never be backed by gold again. If this happens the monetary system collapses...

BTC still outperforming gold by far this year from 3.3k to 12k ;)

True. If you wait long enough, BTC will drop to 1k and by year's end will be back to 5-6k. Lol

Remember, Gold is the "currency" of safety, the world over, Not BTC. BTC owners are now in solitude praying to get back to 15K whereas Gold has surpassed its all-time high.

Nice to hear from you again. I hope all is well.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on August 17, 2020, 03:17:45 PM
For crypto it's market cycle it will surpass last height also just give it time.

I've been busy, with new product and a new platform for all traders will be released soon. I sent u in private last time, now we are almost finished.

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on August 22, 2020, 04:32:36 PM
Chainlist, a blockchain analytic firm, recently revealed that China’s nationals are inclining towards crypto coins for transferring their money outside of China. (https://theforexreview.com/2020/08/21/china-traders-transfer-50-billion-in-crypto-last-year/) The New York based firm had found out that nearly $50 billion in the form of cryptocurrencies left China in 2019.

Chainlist stated that the most popular digital coin in these transactions was stablecoins. In second place came Tether, which alone accounted for $18 billion of the total amount transferred in 2019.

Fascinating, considering the ban on crypto trading in China.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 22, 2020, 05:30:11 PM
Chainlist, a blockchain analytic firm, recently revealed that China’s nationals are inclining towards crypto coins for transferring their money outside of China. (https://theforexreview.com/2020/08/21/china-traders-transfer-50-billion-in-crypto-last-year/) The New York based firm had found out that nearly $50 billion in the form of cryptocurrencies left China in 2019.

Chainlist stated that the most popular digital coin in these transactions was stablecoins. In second place came Tether, which alone accounted for $18 billion of the total amount transferred in 2019.

Fascinating, considering the ban on crypto trading in China.

That is the main reason that crypto exists, to evade the country's laws. In some cases, even governments use this form of payment to fund their espionage but as a form of alternate security of wealth, crypto has along way to go as a universal store of value.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on August 29, 2020, 10:23:33 AM
For crypto it's market cycle it will surpass last height also just give it time.

I've been busy, with new product and a new platform for all traders will be released soon. I sent u in private last time, now we are almost finished.

Yes it is very possible. Crypto markets look extremely confident, traders and investors shrugged off anxiety after past wipeout. I think we need some powerful catalyst.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on August 29, 2020, 12:04:03 PM
For crypto it's market cycle it will surpass last height also just give it time.

I've been busy, with new product and a new platform for all traders will be released soon. I sent u in private last time, now we are almost finished.

Yes it is very possible. Crypto markets look extremely confident, traders and investors shrugged off anxiety after past wipeout. I think we need some powerful catalyst.


In February 2020, Edstrom made a prediction that Bitcoin would reach an $8 trillion market cap by 2030. Although he didn't mention it, this is considered to be the approximate size of the gold market. In any case, this would put the price of a single coin at around $400,000.

It should be a BIG catalyst!

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 04, 2020, 03:58:36 PM
In the Canadian province of Ontario, a number of citizens have fallen victim to another Bitcoin scam. (https://theforexreview.com/2020/08/24/78-fall-victim-to-a-bitcoin-scam-in-canadas-ontario-province/) The Waterloo Regional Police Service released a statement revealing that the people have been victimised out of CA$430,000 (US$326,649.50).

The police claims that the scammer had been making phone call in an attempt to push for Bitcoin payments. Most notably, the fraudsters were presenting themselves to be from Service Canada, Service Ontario, or Canada Revenue Agency (CRA), and other agencies, some of which are law enforcement organisations.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 04, 2020, 04:02:53 PM
In the Canadian province of Ontario, a number of citizens have fallen victim to another Bitcoin scam. (https://theforexreview.com/2020/08/24/78-fall-victim-to-a-bitcoin-scam-in-canadas-ontario-province/) The Waterloo Regional Police Service released a statement revealing that the people have been victimised out of CA$430,000 (US$326,649.50).

The police claims that the scammer had been making phone call in an attempt to push for Bitcoin payments. Most notably, the fraudsters were presenting themselves to be from Service Canada, Service Ontario, or Canada Revenue Agency (CRA), and other agencies, some of which are law enforcement organisations.

Having received a half dozen of these calls myself, I am amazed how these people don't pay attention to the news, read or listen. The media has been buzzing about this for almost a year and yet these scammers still find victims. I don't understand and question if such people don't deserve what they get into.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on September 06, 2020, 06:13:16 PM
For crypto it's market cycle it will surpass last height also just give it time.

I've been busy, with new product and a new platform for all traders will be released soon. I sent u in private last time, now we are almost finished.

Yes it is very possible. Crypto markets look extremely confident, traders and investors shrugged off anxiety after past wipeout. I think we need some powerful catalyst.


In February 2020, Edstrom made a prediction that Bitcoin would reach an $8 trillion market cap by 2030. Although he didn't mention it, this is considered to be the approximate size of the gold market. In any case, this would put the price of a single coin at around $400,000.

It should be a BIG catalyst!

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Which catalyst are you talking about? Edstrom forecast or what?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 06, 2020, 07:53:25 PM
For crypto it's market cycle it will surpass last height also just give it time.

I've been busy, with new product and a new platform for all traders will be released soon. I sent u in private last time, now we are almost finished.

Yes it is very possible. Crypto markets look extremely confident, traders and investors shrugged off anxiety after past wipeout. I think we need some powerful catalyst.


In February 2020, Edstrom made a prediction that Bitcoin would reach an $8 trillion market cap by 2030. Although he didn't mention it, this is considered to be the approximate size of the gold market. In any case, this would put the price of a single coin at around $400,000.

It should be a BIG catalyst!

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Which catalyst are you talking about? Edstrom forecast or what?

The catalyst of the great Lord McAfee, eating his dick! Of course, it is his messager Edstrom but does it matter? This entire phony tower to nowhere is based on hope, dreams and a huge marketing strategy by the smart to gobble up the naive; it will eventually collapse with so many poor suckers losing their hard-earned money.

I hope you have all the success and are making money, just keep one foot at the door in case you have to make a run for it and save your capital/principal when the bubble bursts.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 11, 2020, 04:15:15 PM
Electricity worth over 2,5 million BGN (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/bitcoin-farm-electricity-theft-for-over-1-5-mln-in-bulgaria) -  a little over 1,5 million USD – has been stolen by an illegal Bitcoin farm in the regional Bulgarian town of Kyustendil, local police sources said on Thursday.
The electricity leak has been detected after an inspection of CEZ Electro – the local utility company that maintains the electricity network in the region.
 
The electricity theft is the biggest so far in Bulgaria and illustrates a growing trend of illegal bitcoin farms popping up in the country.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on September 20, 2020, 06:13:14 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54226107

Banksters at it again...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 20, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54226107

Banksters at it again...

Yeah, I read this earlier. Goes to show you crooks are everywhere, "except" the virgins at BTC?  ;)

Enjoy the day, and keep away from Covi.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 24, 2020, 03:25:11 PM
I was just reading about that. Why so many of the offending banks are in the UK? Does anyone have a theory about that?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: peter_s on September 25, 2020, 02:23:44 PM
Some interesting stuff going on in decentralized finance, DEX,  at the moment with this platform, in particular, looking promising...

https://trade.dydx.exchange/margin/ETH-DAI

https://trade.dydx.exchange/balances

I like the idea of 5%+ interest on the lending side, but guess this doesn't come with come (significant?) risk?....

It appears to be the way forward avoiding all the pitfalls of the current opaque/scam broker/trading cutlure ...anyone used it?

Haven't got a clue what half of this stuff means, but decentralistion appears to be the way to go:

https://defirate.com/

Overall their theme is 'permissionless lending and margin trading facility' which means no checks and complete anonymity I guess:)
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 25, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
Some interesting stuff going on in decentralized finance, DEX,  at the moment with this platform, in particular, looking promising...

https://trade.dydx.exchange/margin/ETH-DAI

https://trade.dydx.exchange/balances

I like the idea of 5%+ interest on the lending side, but guess this doesn't come with come (significant?) risk?....

It appears to be the way forward avoiding all the pitfalls of the current opaque/scam broker/trading cutlure ...anyone used it?

Haven't got a clue what half of this stuff means, but decentralistion appears to be the way to go:

https://defirate.com/

Overall their theme is 'permissionless lending and margin trading facility' which means no checks and complete anonymity I guess:)

Just another way for th"haves" to steal more away from the naive and havenots.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 26, 2020, 04:20:33 PM
I don't trust any company without a proper license.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on September 27, 2020, 04:38:40 PM
India’s ruling body is seriously considering (https://theforexreview.com/2020/09/21/inida-a-nation-wide-crypto-trading-ban-currently-pending/) an introduction of a law that will ban any sort of cryptocurrency trades.

The government has already drafted a bill that bans all crypto trading forms. Anyone that is caught red handed with crypto assets could be facing a ten year imprisonment, plus a hefty fine of up to 250 million rupees or $3.63 million.

The bill is yet to be introduced in parliament by the federal cabinet. Further discussions will follow.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 27, 2020, 07:31:43 PM
India’s ruling body is seriously considering (https://theforexreview.com/2020/09/21/inida-a-nation-wide-crypto-trading-ban-currently-pending/) an introduction of a law that will ban any sort of cryptocurrency trades.

The government has already drafted a bill that bans all crypto trading forms. Anyone that is caught red handed with crypto assets could be facing a ten year imprisonment, plus a hefty fine of up to 250 million rupees or $3.63 million.

The bill is yet to be introduced in parliament by the federal cabinet. Further discussions will follow.

I would think it would be difficult to legislate for one country unless there is world wide cooperation especially placing such penalties and even higher ones with all IP providers which allow crypto exchnages to communicate. Once that is done, bye, bye cryptos and it's comming. The main drivers of this believe it or not are the digital industry themeslves, the credit card companies, like Visa/Mastercard etc. and of course, governments which are losing their taxing base.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 10, 2020, 03:48:12 PM
Do you think such a global change is possible though?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 10, 2020, 04:39:52 PM
Do you think such a global change is possible though?

Yes. No matter what the political ideologies of various nations, they still need to trade and exchange goods. Because of this, they need to belong to a "special club" like the IMF, WTO and others, with some common form of monetary exchange. It would benefit all parties concerned if they would agree to one "standard form" of exchange as is the US dollar today. It doesn't have to be the US dollar but may be agreed differently at some future time and could take the form of digital currency but "regulated" and accounted for by some "legitimate" authority like the UN.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 13, 2020, 09:45:05 AM
Kate Winslet will produce and star in a new movie (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/kate-winslet-will-star-as-the-notorious-onecoin-crytoqueen-in-the-new-movie-fake) about OneCoin – the notorious Ponzi style crypto scam that defrauded investors of some 5,15 billion USD.

‘Fake!’ will be produced for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and will be directed by Scott Z. Burns, who also will write the script.

OneCoin, which was founded in Bulgaria back in 2014, worked as multilevel marketing scheme, where investors were offered a “revolutionary” new crypto currency -  OneCoin, which was advertised as “Bitcoin killer”. In just a few years the OneCoin promoters attracted over 5 billion USD from investors all over the world - form the U.S. to China and from the UK to Uganda.

 
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 13, 2020, 02:38:29 PM
Kate Winslet will produce and star in a new movie (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/kate-winslet-will-star-as-the-notorious-onecoin-crytoqueen-in-the-new-movie-fake) about OneCoin – the notorious Ponzi style crypto scam that defrauded investors of some 5,15 billion USD.

‘Fake!’ will be produced for Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and will be directed by Scott Z. Burns, who also will write the script.

OneCoin, which was founded in Bulgaria back in 2014, worked as multilevel marketing scheme, where investors were offered a “revolutionary” new crypto currency -  OneCoin, which was advertised as “Bitcoin killer”. In just a few years the OneCoin promoters attracted over 5 billion USD from investors all over the world - form the U.S. to China and from the UK to Uganda.

One day we will look back at all these "crypro" fads and ask why; how could people be so gaulible?  ::)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on October 14, 2020, 07:41:14 AM
Unfortunately many wanna-be investors are either don't realize that there is positive relationship between expected returns and  risk (or simply ignore this matter) or intentionally take high risk simply to try their luck. I think it is still possible to invest in Ponzi projects like OneCoin (because early participants are still winners) but we have to allocate small amount of capital to such ventures.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 22, 2020, 03:17:34 PM
Hopefully this movie will be popular enough to open the eyes of least some people, when it comes to Ponzi schemes.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 22, 2020, 03:44:58 PM
Hopefully this movie will be popular enough to open the eyes of least some people, when it comes to Ponzi schemes.

I am looking for "serious" investors to fund an expedition to the Antarctic. The mission will be to drill for ice. The ice formed during the time after Noah's Ark landed on the "mountains of Ararat." This ice will be sold to all Bitcoin enthusiasts ( Mulitibillionairs) to chill their Champagne when they toast to BTC's 1 million dollar target.

 "A limited time offer"!.............

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 23, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
The United States’ Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) has introduced a novel set of rules, dedicated to restricting the acceptance, storage and use of cryptocurrency (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/cftc-restricts-crypto-fcms) assets by Futures Commission Merchants (FCMs). The reason cited behind the changes is that holding onto such assets possesses certain risks – one of them is the vulnerability to hackers, which has recently been exploited in a breach that resulted in losses of $150 million for crypto exchange service KuCoin.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: fxopen78 on October 25, 2020, 10:53:37 PM
I am hear if Brad Garlinghouse, CEO of San Francisco-based crypto payment company Ripple have planning move headquarter to London UK
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on October 26, 2020, 03:31:55 PM
Because of this new legislation in the US?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 06, 2020, 08:36:16 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/21/paypal-gets-into-crypto-with-new-features-for-trading-and-shopping.html

More and more adaptations will bring prices more up. As said many times before crypto is here to stay, not having it in portfolio is a mistake...
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 06, 2020, 03:49:15 PM
I heard about that. What do you think?
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 06, 2020, 04:18:42 PM
it's not up to me. But as you see price is going up so it seems investors and traders like it and ride the wave. But it should drop soon, if we get a new crisis. I think if Biden wins he will probably restrict businesses and enforce lockdown so this could be a snowball effect on all financial assets.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 10, 2020, 04:44:50 PM
Following a similar piece of legislation adopted in New York back in 2015, a bill, seeking to regulate crypto currency service providers under the oversight of the New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance was presented before the local state Senate. (https://www.forexbrokerz.com/news/new-jersey-is-about-to-regulate-the-crypto-industry)

A bill dubbed the "Digital Asset and Blockchain Technology Act" was introduced to the New Jersey Senate by Senator Nellie Pou and could become a law if passed and signed by Gov. Phil Murphy.

The proposed law would require a license for any entity looking to provide digital asset trading, storage, purchase, sales, exchange, borrowing/ lending or issuance services, involving crypto currencies.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: drunkfx on November 23, 2020, 05:18:31 AM
it's not up to me. But as you see price is going up so it seems investors and traders like it and ride the wave. But it should drop soon, if we get a new crisis. I think if Biden wins he will probably restrict businesses and enforce lockdown so this could be a snowball effect on all financial assets.

Lockdowns won't happen again as vaccine is ready and I'm a but skeptical about BTC rally going to short it from 20K
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 23, 2020, 08:56:40 AM
it's not up to me. But as you see price is going up so it seems investors and traders like it and ride the wave. But it should drop soon, if we get a new crisis. I think if Biden wins he will probably restrict businesses and enforce lockdown so this could be a snowball effect on all financial assets.

Lockdowns won't happen again as vaccine is ready and I'm a but skeptical about BTC rally going to short it from 20K
What vaccine? The one that needs - 70 to transfer and can be produced for about 50 mil. people? Lockdown is already in EU, it will be in US too. Vaccine will be available maybe in spring/summer. What media is writing is not realistic. They are in late stages and not finished with testng, so prepare for bumpy ride.

Regarding BTC it will be there, it is a new financial instrument either you like it or not. Do you think that speculators will stay aside of the best performing asset ever? They are looking where to invest, traditional market makes low returns cheap money etc. So they turn to other means where to profit. If you plan to go short better add a SL or risk small because if it goes to 20k it can easily go to 30k
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: Eliza Abrams on November 26, 2020, 03:54:56 PM
Vaccination of medical personnel will likely start earlier - in my country it's supposed to start mid-February, together with teachers and police, but the rest of the population will likely have to wait until the summer indeed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Discussion
Post by: oportunis on November 26, 2020, 05:23:32 PM
yes as I wrote spring/summer maybe even autumn. But as I know it will be pushed only to public workers, the rest will not go for this at least in the EU. Why would a normal person get vaccinated for something that affects only 1% of people?  :o