Donna Forex Forum

Systems (EA's and manual), and Managed Accounts => Managed Accounts & Signal Services => Topic started by: MatthiasHuber on July 01, 2016, 01:53:25 PM

Title: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: MatthiasHuber on July 01, 2016, 01:53:25 PM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: drunkfx on August 03, 2016, 05:04:00 PM
Invest in PAMM's with rescue levels like this https://v2pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1041607 , where a manager takes responsibility for losses, so trading more carefully and diligently.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: tcc97 on November 11, 2016, 01:25:06 PM
@matthiashubber
(disclosure: i am a pamm manager at hotforex)

there are a few things you can watch for when investing in a pamm:

if you are allowed to filter the ranking table like the hotforex v2 pamm, you can use it to your advantage.

1. choose duration more than 1 year or min 6 mths.
2. then returns more than zero. ie must be profitable.
3. draw down less than 25 or 20 or anything you are comfortable. if you choose dd with say 5%, then you will have very few choices left, just go for slightly higher number. will explain how to filter manually once you filter the pamm table.
4. after criteria 1-3 normally you won't be left with many choices because very very few pamm will survive past a year. if you want to be more confident choose a longer duration say two years.

after you are left with say 15 - 20 pamms, you can then go through each one (sounds like some work but trust me it is worthwhile as this is your hard earned funds n u need to protect it) and check for floating p/l (profit or loss)... usually they are losses, so the thing you need to check is how big the losses are?

this is critical... few ppl know how to look into this and compare with the dd number captured in the draw down column!

if the floating p/l is say -100 and the equity (not balance) is 300 then u know that the real dd is 33%. compare this to the max dd number captured in the website usually at the top or left column of the page.

just by using the filter mentioned earlier n also manual comparison i assure you that you are likely (no guarantees in fx world) to not lose your whole capital. if you have slightly more knowledge on fx trading you can then drill down to the returns n dd level you are comfortable with. if not, it is still better than blindly invest in pamm based on the returns alone as most retail traders just look at. they go for highest roi!

one of the reasons i emphasise duration of the pamm is because the manager is likely to be very careful with your funds given he or she survives so long and after building a long track record there is even a better reason to preserve the account and trade with lots of discipline.

you may asked how i know about all these? i have traded fx for a long time on a full time basis and i am also managing a pamm in hotforex in fact one of the longest one in the pamm table. not here to advertised but should you be interested take a look at the link below. we can discuss further should it capture your interest.

http://www.donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=12110.0

using what i just said above n with the condition below at hotforex pamm v2:

days opened > 360
gain > 1 (u can change this number)
abs gain > 1 again
max dd < 25% (u can adjust this to your liking, i use the default value)

only ten pamms came out. now i can still down to each one to see they are with investing. at least they stand the test of time. if course for those who want very high returns in a short period this way of filtering is not suitable. it is for ppl who want long term n consistent gain with piece of mind without having to worry a blown account when they wake up in the morning!  :)

hope this help!

take care n safe trading!

regards, chucky.



p/s: please also check the last trade to make sure this pamm is still being actively traded n managed not just a "zombie pamm" with good record from a long time ago but not traded actively anymore.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: lighter888 on February 26, 2017, 06:55:10 AM
The problem about PAMM Account is their analytics is not true, HotForex's PAMM has one of the better one in term of dashboard and information which is quite transparent.

But the % ROI is inflated due to new incoming funds, the real gain is reflected on abs gain instead.

1 - Duration more than 6 months - true
2 - Obviously profitable strategy
3 - The drawdown on hotforex is never real, because it's not apple to apple, the draw-down can be as low as 0% or as high even 50 or 100% when you filtered it based on balanced draw-down and not floating dd, but its not true compared to other analytic platform like fxblue and myfxbook, the better ones are darwinex and fundseeder where true analytics is measured.

Pointing to number 3, i have been a user on hotforex since their beginning i watched how their PAMM system grow from V1 PAMM to even their own titan PAMM to the recent V2PAMM and until last year, their PAMM somehow died down as regulations from euro zone forced them out, leaving only a small pool of investors from outside of europe and US. Only a few good traders are still alive there now, most of their system flopped

- holding onto negative trades
- negative hedging , balance % ROI continue to grow, but DD AS WELL, negative FLOATS can be as high as 50-75%

Warning sign - If the manager's capital is below 50% or even some left with 20% or less, despite their account may have floating DD and their other investors account are making money WHY? Because new investors joined will open trades on LIVE MARKET PRICE. Meaning if the manager had held a long EURUSD at 1.15, and the live market is 1.05, the new investors joined buying EURUSD at 1.05 :) when they successfully joined their PAMM.

Allow me to list a few within top 20 ranking.

https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1118839 - Junaid Abdulla
$543.55 Manager's Capital $4577.47 Manager's Balance - Margin call soon?
EVen though the equities is fine. Gain: 3595.3% inflated ROI


https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1103558 - MHG Trader
$424.39 Manager's Capital $884.07 Manager's Balance
Gain: 1053.17% inflated ROI. Manager dd is at 50%


https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1016333 - Combustion
Gain:777.75% inflated ROI, ABS gain is now -5.2% Profit $-30155.62
Manager squared and lost money but still top 20 :D, how the fark this works? Flawed system


Sure, there are good ones. But you will never know what happened when the volume get bigs. The manager no longer trades the same, some took higher risk, some refused to let go their profits and tanked more.

The best filter is still by how long first, the other metrics isn't so accurate because it's not very true. Unless hotforex enabled 3rd party analytics into their platform, but if they do that, a lot of people will not invest anymore. My friend use hotforex and diversify his funds across multiple pamms, sure some doubled his capital but later on tanked, some margin call etc. I somehow prefers darwinex now, because the analytics is much more accurate and LIVE floating stats, its very hard to get good scores there.



@matthiashubber
(disclosure: i am a pamm manager at hotforex)

there are a few things you can watch for when investing in a pamm:

if you are allowed to filter the ranking table like the hotforex v2 pamm, you can use it to your advantage.

1. choose duration more than 1 year or min 6 mths.
2. then returns more than zero. ie must be profitable.
3. draw down less than 25 or 20 or anything you are comfortable. if you choose dd with say 5%, then you will have very few choices left, just go for slightly higher number. will explain how to filter manually once you filter the pamm table.
4. after criteria 1-3 normally you won't be left with many choices because very very few pamm will survive past a year. if you want to be more confident choose a longer duration say two years.

after you are left with say 15 - 20 pamms, you can then go through each one (sounds like some work but trust me it is worthwhile as this is your hard earned funds n u need to protect it) and check for floating p/l (profit or loss)... usually they are losses, so the thing you need to check is how big the losses are?

this is critical... few ppl know how to look into this and compare with the dd number captured in the draw down column!

if the floating p/l is say -100 and the equity (not balance) is 300 then u know that the real dd is 33%. compare this to the max dd number captured in the website usually at the top or left column of the page.

just by using the filter mentioned earlier n also manual comparison i assure you that you are likely (no guarantees in fx world) to not lose your whole capital. if you have slightly more knowledge on fx trading you can then drill down to the returns n dd level you are comfortable with. if not, it is still better than blindly invest in pamm based on the returns alone as most retail traders just look at. they go for highest roi!

one of the reasons i emphasise duration of the pamm is because the manager is likely to be very careful with your funds given he or she survives so long and after building a long track record there is even a better reason to preserve the account and trade with lots of discipline.

you may asked how i know about all these? i have traded fx for a long time on a full time basis and i am also managing a pamm in hotforex in fact one of the longest one in the pamm table. not here to advertised but should you be interested take a look at the link below. we can discuss further should it capture your interest.

http://www.donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=12110.0

using what i just said above n with the condition below at hotforex pamm v2:

days opened > 360
gain > 1 (u can change this number)
abs gain > 1 again
max dd < 25% (u can adjust this to your liking, i use the default value)

only ten pamms came out. now i can still down to each one to see they are with investing. at least they stand the test of time. if course for those who want very high returns in a short period this way of filtering is not suitable. it is for ppl who want long term n consistent gain with piece of mind without having to worry a blown account when they wake up in the morning!  :)

hope this help!

take care n safe trading!

regards, chucky.



p/s: please also check the last trade to make sure this pamm is still being actively traded n managed not just a "zombie pamm" with good record from a long time ago but not traded actively anymore.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: Paul.Trafford on March 13, 2017, 10:44:04 AM
Alright I have read a lot about PAMM accounts and I have a question I hope this is the right subject to post it. From my understanding, when you choose a Money Manager, the amount which you invest for example letís say is 1000$ and his pooled PAMM fund is 20 000$. So I invested 5% of the total capital. When the Money Manager makes 5 000$ additionally (after a month trading total capital becomes 25 000$), does this means that I am receiving 250$ (this is 5% of the 5000$ that were made in this month) or I am not understanding the PAMM structure correctly ?
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: lonewolf on March 13, 2017, 10:51:21 AM
Alright I have read a lot about PAMM accounts and I have a question I hope this is the right subject to post it. From my understanding, when you choose a Money Manager, the amount which you invest for example letís say is 1000$ and his pooled PAMM fund is 20 000$. So I invested 5% of the total capital. When the Money Manager makes 5 000$ additionally (after a month trading total capital becomes 25 000$), does this means that I am receiving 250$ (this is 5% of the 5000$ that were made in this month) or I am not understanding the PAMM structure correctly ?

Correct. Minus the fee of using the manager, which varies  lots.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: fxinvestor on March 14, 2017, 03:08:12 AM
Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: lonewolf on March 14, 2017, 04:03:48 AM
Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(

Check out ezefx, they've a signal running since 2015, slow but profitable. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/realgains/golden-triangle/1455546

I'm using their EA's with success. :)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: fxinvestor on March 14, 2017, 04:20:28 AM
Thank you!! :)

Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(

Check out ezefx, they've a signal running since 2015, slow but profitable. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/realgains/golden-triangle/1455546

I'm using their EA's with success. :)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: forexbaby on May 11, 2017, 11:47:12 AM
Usually pamm has a better pips gain beause the trade is directly to the account of clients.

When you taking a scalper, better to take a pamm than a signal.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: Valzent on May 31, 2017, 08:55:38 PM
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: Valzent on June 01, 2017, 02:31:09 PM
Forgot to mention something extremely important
When choosing to invest in a PAMM Account, never let the Balance curve deceive you, always look for the Equity Curve, that whats going to tell you the real performance of the account
Some manager "make up" a pretty balance curve while hiding a terrible performance in the account Equity, which ultimately lead to no profits at all and account wipes
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: forexbaby on June 01, 2017, 05:19:12 PM
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

lucky pound is a grid right?
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: Valzent on June 01, 2017, 05:50:09 PM
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

lucky pound is a grid right?

From what I can see in its myfxbook profile it indeed is a grid system
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/lucky-pound/1045415

Something I really like about the system is that by looking at its history you can notice SLs are controlled and respected, which is a plus to me in any trading system
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: forexbaby on June 03, 2017, 01:25:39 AM
for me I do not do grid but i know that grid with a hard stop SL is possible.

however many traders cannot control emotion to hard SL when needed causing account to be gone  ::)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: castlebrook on June 14, 2017, 10:37:01 AM
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

lucky pound is a grid right?

From what I can see in its myfxbook profile it indeed is a grid system
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/lucky-pound/1045415

Something I really like about the system is that by looking at its history you can notice SLs are controlled and respected, which is a plus to me in any trading system

Do you have Ninja Trainer's contact details? Not Alpari.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: JackDanial on August 11, 2017, 01:23:47 PM
Ninjatrainer in MyFxbook:
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/ninjatrainer/1346753
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 13, 2017, 06:12:32 PM
a new FX trade system stats analysis tool that is the best I've seen yet
FXStat


http://www.fxstat.com/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720
It has some interesting statistics... like "Scalability" and "Discipline"

I trade a Master Account for 5 trade copying providers.
And 2 PAMM Funds, one at Mt Cook (superior) and Hotforex (satisfactory)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 14, 2017, 12:53:53 PM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 14, 2017, 09:41:25 PM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842

i took a peak at them today as well, pretty slick set up, ultimately adjustable for both sides.

will look into this more next year.

sure see no systems to click on at mt cook, which button do i need to push ??
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 14, 2017, 10:19:14 PM
I added a shortcut here: http://www.4xcp.com/mtcookpam

But if you go to their webpage than you click on managed accounts and you will see 2 options. They have a hybrid PAM with Mt. Cook and a hybrid MAM with Tier1fx.

Tier1fx has also option to set up a hard stop independently, but they don't offer risk multiplier like Mt. Cook, so you can invest only with 1x risk. Which should be fine for big investors. Also Tier1fx offers custodian accounts at Dukascopy bank if you have over 50k. This is good because you get protected and you are not in a pooled segregated account of broker. And they offer bigger insurance than EU. EU offers 20k EUR while Swiss have 250k CHF. I know this, because Sam or TitanTrader has MAM there and I looked into it before.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: e1vis on November 15, 2017, 01:05:53 AM
https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19872.msg371822#msg371822



What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 15, 2017, 01:12:27 AM
Yes, than you can try Tier1fx. EU regulated... Also hybrid and you can set your own hard stop.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 08:47:27 AM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842

i took a peak at them today as well, pretty slick set up, ultimately adjustable for both sides.

will look into this more next year.

sure see no systems to click on at mt cook, which button do i need to push ??

Hey Reinerh

I trade a PAMM with Mt Cook and they are top of the heap.  Really unique Hybrid Software that gives both manager and subscriber the control and visibility they need.  This  Hybrid PAMM software for money managers, allows the customer to control risk profile, IB profile, and Performance Fee type.  individually customise your whole investment in each investor's agreement, and their technology is cutting edge.  The developers and partners were traders themselves.  decided to make a boutique brokerage with really cool offerings for peeps like us.
This is the Hybrid Pamm software at Mt Cook Financial:
http://mtcookfinancial.com/pam-hybrid-2-0-presentation/ (password: hybridvid)

Let me know if you still have questions.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 08:57:10 AM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842

i took a peak at them today as well, pretty slick set up, ultimately adjustable for both sides.

will look into this more next year.

sure see no systems to click on at mt cook, which button do i need to push ??

Their hybrid PAMM software also allows investor to use GBP, AUD, EUR, and USD.
Soon they will offer JPY and HKD.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 15, 2017, 09:06:42 AM
Yup Mt. Cook is the best in that.

There are some other brokers that offer also good solutions, I mentioned one already, but so far I would say Mt. Cook has cutting edge technology for PAM.

The only problem could be that they are not located in more "secure" country like EU, UK, Australia where regulation is a little better. Although they are also under ASIC, but that franchise office does not offer hybrid PAM only regular MAM, which can be found at most brokers.

But the deposits are held at Australian bank or UK, so this is also good.

You can find more about their regulation here: http://mtcookfinancial.com/about/regulation

Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 15, 2017, 10:49:10 AM
Ha, it looks like after all they do offer hybrid PAM under ASIC regulation. Great to know :)

Someone on forum confirmed this, it wasn't known to me before. In August they didn't have this option, so this is good news.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 16, 2017, 02:06:34 AM
Yes the Hybrid PAM on the ASIC license will be nice. They said it was from popular demand. It sounds like some people may need a financial license though to run PAMs on ASIC. And probably everywhere there is ASIC (all australia brokers). I know in the EU this is 100% certain starting in January.

Elvis, I do most of my slush fund trading on their offshore "DMA" feed (not their ASIC stuff). It is offshore, but the reason why I am more comfortable with them vs other offshore brokers like Hot Forex and FX Pig and all the others with offshore licese for example, is for me personally 2 reasons.

1. They are a long standing "trusted broker" on Forex Signals. I seen them there for over 2 years now. This is important to me, because they don't put brokers on there haphazardly. As we have seen with reinerh, they err on the side of OVERLY cautious (may be to quick to judge even). It was a good due diligence vouche for me though.

And 2 (probably most important). I want the RAW Divisa UK liquidity feed. MtCOOK is essentially just routing all my orders directly to Divisa UK for me (and Divisa UK won't accept me direct). One of my EAs works ONLY on this liquidity feed, but on NO OTHERS (and I get a discounted rate there). They gave me two others to compare it to so I have some good options there for EAs.

But yes the ASIC license will be nice. For some people it is more important than my reasons and I understand that. I am staying on my Divisa feed though as it is an ATM machine for my most sensitive EA.

I am actually making some changes to my brokers lately. I am closing down my UK accounts, and moving them to Mt.Cook and To Europacific bank where i just opened a bank + FX account all in one. I am equally as excited with them.

I am hoping to simply my life a little bit. Less brokers and a bank + brokerage combination. I don't need much more. Only profits now ;)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 16, 2017, 02:07:58 AM
I added a shortcut here: http://www.4xcp.com/mtcookpam

But if you go to their webpage than you click on managed accounts and you will see 2 options. They have a hybrid PAM with Mt. Cook and a hybrid MAM with Tier1fx.

Tier1fx has also option to set up a hard stop independently, but they don't offer risk multiplier like Mt. Cook, so you can invest only with 1x risk. Which should be fine for big investors. Also Tier1fx offers custodian accounts at Dukascopy bank if you have over 50k. This is good because you get protected and you are not in a pooled segregated account of broker. And they offer bigger insurance than EU. EU offers 20k EUR while Swiss have 250k CHF. I know this, because Sam or TitanTrader has MAM there and I looked into it before.

Opportunis is 4xcp the same thing as JoePro hedge strategy? Or are they different? The myfxbooks are for JoePro and so are the videos.

Im watching some of JoePro's videos and that guy looks just like a paid actor reading scrips LOL. He has a nice performance though I cannot argue with that and it is myfxbook verified even though it is across a few different versions.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 02:16:59 AM
jwatts,

i am also getting more and more excited about mt cook.

doing extensive research myself, did not know divisa clears the trades, thats news to me.

you must be trading some high speed stuff i assume, gee might have to undust mine ;)

one mystery so far is still how to find systems on mt cook, i cant find nada. why are they not listed anywhere on their site ? with links to myfxbooks, man that be sweet but no dice..........

or am i blind......................
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 02:24:16 AM
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

I would recommend to use a broker that supports setting up your own hard stop, so no matter what happens with money manager you get stopped at your precise level.

For that reason I invested in Mt. Cook broker, they offer a hybrid PAM where you can set your max. loss and increase or decrease risk. The PAM I'm in is managed by JoePro, so far it has been great. Low risk as all trades are protected with hedges and it doesn't matter what direction market goes as long as it moves we make profit. Here is a link if anybody want's to know more: http://www.4xcp.com

Here is the myfxbook of the PAM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/clearstonecap/clear-stone-capital-ltd-mtcook/2251842

i took a peak at them today as well, pretty slick set up, ultimately adjustable for both sides.

will look into this more next year.

sure see no systems to click on at mt cook, which button do i need to push ??

Hey Reinerh

I trade a PAMM with Mt Cook and they are top of the heap.  Really unique Hybrid Software that gives both manager and subscriber the control and visibility they need.  This  Hybrid PAMM software for money managers, allows the customer to control risk profile, IB profile, and Performance Fee type.  individually customise your whole investment in each investor's agreement, and their technology is cutting edge.  The developers and partners were traders themselves.  decided to make a boutique brokerage with really cool offerings for peeps like us.
This is the Hybrid Pamm software at Mt Cook Financial:
http://mtcookfinancial.com/pam-hybrid-2-0-presentation/ (password: hybridvid)

Let me know if you still have questions.

thx, yes i took a peek already, its the cats meow. i am highly impressed..............

gee exciting times ahead, and signals is still an option with mtcook hybrid as well.

simply put all options they got it covered..................plus a killer feed too, oh man ;)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 16, 2017, 03:04:02 AM
jwatts,

i am also getting more and more excited about mt cook.

doing extensive research myself, did not know divisa clears the trades, thats news to me.

you must be trading some high speed stuff i assume, gee might have to undust mine ;)

one mystery so far is still how to find systems on mt cook, i cant find nada. why are they not listed anywhere on their site ? with links to myfxbooks, man that be sweet but no dice..........

or am i blind......................

Hey reinerh. It is actually news trading so yeah it needs a bit of speed! I only hope it can continue to do well. I have found that sometimes these work for a while then stop. You know how that goes I am sure.

The Divisa account is only one of their feeds (DMA). Their ECN is also quite good to (that is where my PAM is with them). But it is not as good for my news stuff only.

If you have sensitive EAs I find this a good place to test them because you can test them on different environments fast and easily.

I much prefer EAs like Cabex that work the SAME everywhere no matter what brokerage. But we know that that is not always the case with some of them.

I asked them if they think it can continue to work well on the DMA/Divisa feed, and this is what their support wrote to me:

There are no guarantees. And it may some day work better on our ECN. This is always dynamic and changing. But we suspect it will have a fair chance for you on the DMA feed if it is working well there now as the Divisa UK offering has grown very handsomely over the last year. Divisa UK recently received a hefty $100M private capital investment, and poured a large majority of it in to their liquidity relationships and infrastructure making it an incredibly strong offering now with a noticeable improvement. By connecting in with them on DMA, we now tap in to their 3 xCores (in London, NY, and Tokyo), and each of these has 25-30 local liquidity providers from tier one banks and other HFTís. Additionally each LP streams us multiple layers of depth. So it has turned in to a massive monstrous liquidity offering and one of the better ones around we feel.


I mean this doesn't really mean much to me. But it at least sounds good ;) No guarantees of course.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 03:15:55 AM
newstrading i actually do manually quite well, no ea needed.

but i still have custom tick scalpers i can try on a speedy feed. i gave up on those pretty much, found other much more profitable ways where any feed will do.

but a little fun on the side, why not :)

yeah i am getting more and more fired up about mt cook. already hunted for funds to get going, i think it wont take me much longer and i be rockin there.................

this signal thing sure was not good for my health.

but on mt cook i still can do signals, but i can trade as i like, no forum to attend to and explain my booboos and or getting attacked by the forum moderator for days on end.
 
you stating joe even hiring a actor the way it sounds to me, lol

no male actor for me, i be hiring a bikini babe to really get them going good ;)
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 16, 2017, 05:05:04 AM
hah. Now you are talkin! That reminds me of the old Currensee commercials with the hot girls in them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuYBdGVQoU

I don't think it worked very well for them as they don't seem to be around anymore. Good marketing though.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 16, 2017, 07:45:54 AM
Opportunis is 4xcp the same thing as JoePro hedge strategy? Or are they different? The myfxbooks are for JoePro and so are the videos.

Im watching some of JoePro's videos and that guy looks just like a paid actor reading scrips LOL. He has a nice performance though I cannot argue with that and it is myfxbook verified even though it is across a few different versions.
Yes, JoePro is CTO there, the PAM has same strategy that Joe trades for over 2 years. I joined him in January with 2x risk this year and than moved to PAM, so I don't have to worry about slippage.

I like the system, it traded over all the chaos out there and the most profit it generated were big events like Brexit or GBP flash crash. Where most traders blow accounts this system excels. They don't care which direction market goes as long as it goes, because all trades have pending hedge orders. The most damage can be done if price stays in the range, but than we just wait it out until it breaks and sooner or later it happens as you know market never stays in same range. The leverage used is so small it's ridiculous. Most of the time it's 1:1, because he splits one trade into 5 parts. So if you have 10k he trades 0.02 lots x 5 at different prices and also pending hedges are adaptive, so you don't get in trouble if price stays in range for a long time, because it notices a range and just doesn't open them or opens them closer to entry so we get out faster, don't know how he does it, but this is proprietary secret so I don't care as long as we are safe and we get profit it is fine to me :) I will ask him to open a thread here, so he can explain in detail if someone will be interested.

Also he is not an hired actor, hehe :) This is his video journal, so people can see his progress over the years and who he is. I like that, because he is showing his face and not hiding behind some anonymous nick like most managers are doing.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 10:46:24 AM
hah. Now you are talkin! That reminds me of the old Currensee commercials with the hot girls in them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuYBdGVQoU

I don't think it worked very well for them as they don't seem to be around anymore. Good marketing though.

lol, i was just kidding.

i hate those stinkin ea commercials like the devil, them showing yachts, ferraris and so on.

leading you on =  like if you buy our ea and 4 weeks later, you be driving one, yeah right.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 01:00:26 PM
Opportunis is 4xcp the same thing as JoePro hedge strategy? Or are they different? The myfxbooks are for JoePro and so are the videos.

Im watching some of JoePro's videos and that guy looks just like a paid actor reading scrips LOL. He has a nice performance though I cannot argue with that and it is myfxbook verified even though it is across a few different versions.
Yes, JoePro is CTO there, the PAM has same strategy that Joe trades for over 2 years. I joined him in January with 2x risk this year and than moved to PAM, so I don't have to worry about slippage.

I like the system, it traded over all the chaos out there and the most profit it generated were big events like Brexit or GBP flash crash. Where most traders blow accounts this system excels. They don't care which direction market goes as long as it goes, because all trades have pending hedge orders. The most damage can be done if price stays in the range, but than we just wait it out until it breaks and sooner or later it happens as you know market never stays in same range. The leverage used is so small it's ridiculous. Most of the time it's 1:1, because he splits one trade into 5 parts. So if you have 10k he trades 0.02 lots x 5 at different prices and also pending hedges are adaptive, so you don't get in trouble if price stays in range for a long time, because it notices a range and just doesn't open them or opens them closer to entry so we get out faster, don't know how he does it, but this is proprietary secret so I don't care as long as we are safe and we get profit it is fine to me :) I will ask him to open a thread here, so he can explain in detail if someone will be interested.

Also he is not an hired actor, hehe :) This is his video journal, so people can see his progress over the years and who he is. I like that, because he is showing his face and not hiding behind some anonymous nick like most managers are doing.

thats quite interesting. sounds a bit like grid to me, but if it made it through the g crash without damage then thats quite remarkable.

i have not looked at joes accounts.

what really matters is what are his monthly gains to dd endured ???
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 16, 2017, 01:41:51 PM
Most of the time it makes about 2% a month with DD under 1%. All trades are placed with trend, but if the trade goes against us than hedge trades are opened, so DD can get bigger if it stays in a range, but once it breaks out of range and starts trending we end up in profit. So hedge trades are like sort of SL, that is why I like this, because instead of closing at a loss we hedge and get out in few days/weeks.

Longest DD was about 2 month long and it was this summer. A lot of people got frustrated, but we just had to ride it out. He also got "bashed" on other forum and decided to close at loss for signals, while PAM ended OK, because nobody was nagging him there. That is why I also told you that being active on forum is entirely different story.

If you will look at his myfxbook it's a little tricky to explain, because mt4 platform always shows loss first and profit second. So this is sent to myfxbook and it shows DD which is not real. For example when GBP flash crash happened it showed DD of 40%, it was corrected later because this was not true. He had one side of trades at -40% while other hedged trades were in +50% and he ended in profit of 10% on that day, but since losing trades are showing first in mt4 the DD on myfxbook was showing at 40%, this was corrected later. So the DD you see on myfxbook is not entirely true due to that reason. But he has a hard stop at 30% and starts pulling trades apart if we go near 10%, which means that reaching 30% DD is hard I would even say almost impossible.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 02:04:23 PM
Most of the time it makes about 2% a month with DD under 1%. All trades are placed with trend, but if the trade goes against us than hedge trades are opened, so DD can get bigger if it stays in a range, but once it breaks out of range and starts trending we end up in profit. So hedge trades are like sort of SL, that is why I like this, because instead of closing at a loss we hedge and get out in few days/weeks.

Longest DD was about 2 month long and it was this summer. A lot of people got frustrated, but we just had to ride it out. He also got "bashed" on other forum and decided to close at loss for signals, while PAM ended OK, because nobody was nagging him there. That is why I also told you that being active on forum is entirely different story.

If you will look at his myfxbook it's a little tricky to explain, because mt4 platform always shows loss first and profit second. So this is sent to myfxbook and it shows DD which is not real. For example when GBP flash crash happened it showed DD of 40%, it was corrected later because this was not true. He had one side of trades at -40% while other hedged trades were in +50% and he ended in profit of 10% on that day, but since losing trades are showing first in mt4 the DD on myfxbook was showing at 40%, this was corrected later. So the DD you see on myfxbook is not entirely true due to that reason. But he has a hard stop at 30% and starts pulling trades apart if we go near 10%, which means that reaching 30% DD is hard I would even say almost impossible.

if he really averages monthly gains of 2% with a dd of only 1% then he got me beat hands down, my best to date is about 1.6% to 1% there abouts.

now you got me interested, this guy deserves my attention.

will look up his account today and will check it out.

one account i have launched will be utmost interesting, it will target 10% fixed a month, i am shooting for no dd periods whatsoever, yes no dd periods. meaning every month 10% gains fixed like clockwork.

this is very tough to achieve and it yet remains to be seen if i can do that, 5% i definitely can do, that much i already know much. 10% is a lot harder achieving fixed, meaning month after month having no dd periods.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 16, 2017, 02:33:08 PM
No, no it won't show 2 to 1, because he does enter in DD periods. This is normal, nobody can be perfect and win all the time. He can go also to 5% or 7% even 10% sometime if we are in a tight range like this summer/autumn. Most traders ended with loses while we just had to wait for breakout, so it was frustrating and boring as hell. Market not moving really pissed me off :D But the main point is even if we go into DD we will win the whole basket trade eventually given time and when volatility picks up. If he would raise risk he would make more profit, but he doesn't like that so luckily Mt. Cook PAM offers risk multiplier.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 03:59:44 PM
No, no it won't show 2 to 1, because he does enter in DD periods. This is normal, nobody can be perfect and win all the time. He can go also to 5% or 7% even 10% sometime if we are in a tight range like this summer/autumn. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

oportunis,

i am also not always right with my system, i do make bad entries as well. just this week we had a sl.

but i took the hit at the moment i had to. no hedging or any other averaging method used, because i do know they increase the dd sharply at one point when mr market decides to go out of whack in one direction only. this does not happen often, but it does.

its all about the pain endured along the way to achieve whatever profits. here is what i posted in my last weeks update :

for the evaluation of any traders potential, meaning providing profitable results, or analysing a signal to subscribe to, as well as evaluating whatever pamm, or investmend fund, or ea (robot), one simply has to look primarely only at one single set of numbers,

yes thats all whats needed.

monthly gains achieved in % , and the dd in % = (pain endured along the way)  to get there.

please look again at my update page 11 in my thread, and read it again over and over and over.............

so i looked at joes system. first i want to say he is profitable long term which is very good, whats coming below please do not see this as me me bashing him, he is profitable after all and deserves respect for that.

the longest account i could find is this one,

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/JoePro/csc-gbe-account/1876425

it gained 2.75% a month on average. with a dd 15.72%

so yes one could possibly increase lot multiplier to lets say 2. that would result in gains of 5.5% a month with a dd of 31.44%

so his results are clearly not the 2 gains to 1 dd you stated, but in fact 1 gained to 5,71 dd

15.72 divided by 2.75 = 5.71     or same result with 31.44 divided by 5,5 = 5.71

 i can make easy above 1 to 1, with 1.6 my best so far.
 
or differently put 10% dd to 10% gains that be 1 to 1.

and btw, i am not some harvard educated dude or some wizzbang nasa rocket scientist either. its all from hard knox working insanely long hours in close to 20 years of trading, about 10 in fx.

so please poke holes in the above, all critism highly welcome............................

my accounts so far nobody believes me, and i mean nobody not even nick, which is fine.
 
my strategy was just born this summer, and it will take time to show its potential on its longer running virgin accounts. these have been started already.
 
yes, my stated goals are quite high but by next year this time everybody will see how it has developed.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: CanadianPsycho on November 16, 2017, 04:08:57 PM
Plenty of people believe that you're capable of a great deal of profitable trading. You simply choose (unfortunately) to focus on those who don't.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: oportunis on November 16, 2017, 04:18:06 PM
Yes your accounts are great, that is why everybody want's to join.

Regarding PAM or Joe's system the DD you are saying is when GBP flash crash happened, this is what I said is the DD period. Usually he gets in and out more often at 2:1 ratio as I said, so this is what I was considering average. While when he gets into DD the system doesn't close at loss and gives back profits to market but instead hedges and waits till trend starts again either to the up or to the down side. It doesn't matter as long as it goes and that is the difference. This system works over 2 years, you can see he traded at Pepperstone, but than he switched to GBE. So you need to combine those 2 accounts. He opened real account in July 2015 and closed in May 2016 and next month in June he opened at GBE where he still trades.

To me the most important is that all trades are precisely calculated and protected against all markets. So in case of unexpected event like black swan event on CHF in 2015 or GBP in 2016 etc. don't blow my account.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 04:19:53 PM
Plenty of people believe that you're capable of a great deal of profitable trading. You simply choose (unfortunately) to focus on those who don't.

it was my intention from the get go to become simpletraders best provider they ever had in due time.

they chased me away. i had no choice, my health goes above everything, period....................
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: reinerh on November 16, 2017, 04:27:46 PM
 markets. So in case of unexpected event like black swan event on CHF in 2015 or GBP in 2016 etc. don't blow my account.
[/quote]

yes that is correct, i also think it simply cant blow, but that comes at the price of accepting small profits.

unless going higher on the multiplier and then it could blow = when a subscriber does not respect the traders recommendations.

thats why i tried to make my signal description as clear as i possibly could make it and i still failed.
Title: Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
Post by: Trunk on March 03, 2018, 08:38:50 PM
Opportunis is 4xcp the same thing as JoePro hedge strategy? Or are they different? The myfxbooks are for JoePro and so are the videos.

Im watching some of JoePro's videos and that guy looks just like a paid actor reading scrips LOL. He has a nice performance though I cannot argue with that and it is myfxbook verified even though it is across a few different versions.
Yes, JoePro is CTO there, the PAM has same strategy that Joe trades for over 2 years. I joined him in January with 2x risk this year and than moved to PAM, so I don't have to worry about slippage.

I like the system, it traded over all the chaos out there and the most profit it generated were big events like Brexit or GBP flash crash. Where most traders blow accounts this system excels. They don't care which direction market goes as long as it goes, because all trades have pending hedge orders. The most damage can be done if price stays in the range, but than we just wait it out until it breaks and sooner or later it happens as you know market never stays in same range. The leverage used is so small it's ridiculous. Most of the time it's 1:1, because he splits one trade into 5 parts. So if you have 10k he trades 0.02 lots x 5 at different prices and also pending hedges are adaptive, so you don't get in trouble if price stays in range for a long time, because it notices a range and just doesn't open them or opens them closer to entry so we get out faster, don't know how he does it, but this is proprietary secret so I don't care as long as we are safe and we get profit it is fine to me :) I will ask him to open a thread here, so he can explain in detail if someone will be interested.

Also he is not an hired actor, hehe :) This is his video journal, so people can see his progress over the years and who he is. I like that, because he is showing his face and not hiding behind some anonymous nick like most managers are doing.


It needs to be speedy, i.e. have speed advantage to be profitable during high volatility. Not so many retail brokers can fit this criteria