Donna Forex Forum

Systems (EA's and manual), and Managed Accounts => Managed Accounts & Signal Services => Topic started by: donnaforex on May 29, 2017, 07:13:26 AM

Title: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: donnaforex on May 29, 2017, 07:13:26 AM
This is from one of our more recent new members, outsidethebox, who has a signal service on Signal Start, MQL5 and SimpleTrader:

http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160

If you have questions for him, leave them here, or share your experiences using his service.

(old locked topic over here: https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19706 )

Info from outsidethebox:

Mount Cook Financial PAMM fund.... http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70 (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70)

HotForex PAMM: https://www.hotforex.com/hf/en/landing-pages/pamm-account.html?refid=305098/ (https://www.hotforex.com/hf/en/landing-pages/pamm-account.html?refid=305098/)

Please understand there are advantages, disadvantages, and promotional offers to seize in each method of investing in my overall trade system.  Whether it be with short term Trade Copying returns or with longer term investment method of PAMM fund that I will focus an increasing percentage of my day on as I grow, prove my consistency, and as I learn.
I am rolling out a clear plan that I am communicating to all my subscribers and investors, that involves gradually increasing the price of my signal (dependent upon continued consistent returns), closing my signal in November to new subscribers, and then making it clear that I suggest most move over to SimpleTrader trade copying subscription or to my 2 (soon to be 3) PAMM funds at Mount Cook or HotForex.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: QuickPipsFX on May 29, 2017, 10:24:11 AM
In the account history I see  two losing positions. A 36.11% loss, and another 18.10% loss. And those were at the same time. Total more than 50% loss. If they would have hit stoploss, it would have been around -85%. 85 percent of the acount gone (I calculated).

During those loss positions also 4 other positions were openen. I don't see any reasonable cut off point for the positions. I think if one or more of the earlier mentioned 4 positions went for a loss, the account could have been at an even bigger loss.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: ianj on May 29, 2017, 11:33:42 AM
I am with the DD% is not relevant in itself as an indication of how good a strategy is - the DD/Net Profit ratio is what matters - ie HOW LONG does it take to recover from an equity dip (without resorting to heavy "recovery" trading of course - i don't know if that is the case - the risk should be linear over time) . If the max DD is equivalent to, say, 2 weeks net profit then that DD will quickly be left behind. Scaling is different from recovery but it is easy to use scaling to disguise geometric positioning. The main way is to look at NET OPEN position at any given time and see if it is consistent and reasonable

If high DD% is driven to excess you can run out of equity/margin of course but that doesn't make the strategy any less good - it just means it is being traded on too small an account and the leverage/trade sizing should be reduced

The problem with DD% in high tens is that "it happened once and it can easily happen again" and the margin limit is very close - yet it might still be a decent strategy - just overtraded. The "50% is hard to recover" applies if you use proportional trade sizes (ie % based MM) when the trade sizes drop as equity drops

Admittedly my argument works better at 25% DD when the margin has more space. You can recover from a 50% DD very quickly but the risk of blowing up is far higher
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: forexbaby on May 29, 2017, 11:35:32 AM
In the account history I see  two losing positions. A 36.11% loss, and another 18.10% loss. And those were at the same time. Total more than 50% loss. If they would have hit stoploss, it would have been around -85%. 85 percent of the acount gone (I calculated).

During those loss positions also 4 other positions were openen. I don't see any reasonable cut off point for the positions. I think if one or more of the earlier mentioned 4 positions went for a loss, the account could have been at an even bigger loss.

My problem with this vendor is how does one person recover from 50% DD? 1000 from 500 and you need ONLY have 500 to recover and you cannot use your starting risk anymore as you lost 50%
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: yshin on May 29, 2017, 12:03:28 PM
Hi Greg (outsidetheboxhk),

Just need  a clarification:

In the old locked topic, you mentioned: 3.  I have a soft DD limit of 25% and hard DD limit of 50%.
But in SignalStart's description, you wrote this: Maximum drawdown 30% (was 47%, but now the risk is reduced).

Which one is the correct one? Has the drawdown been reduced?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on May 30, 2017, 05:04:01 AM
In the account history I see  two losing positions. A 36.11% loss, and another 18.10% loss. And those were at the same time. Total more than 50% loss. If they would have hit stoploss, it would have been around -85%. 85 percent of the acount gone (I calculated).

During those loss positions also 4 other positions were openen. I don't see any reasonable cut off point for the positions. I think if one or more of the earlier mentioned 4 positions went for a loss, the account could have been at an even bigger loss.

You are correct regarding the % loss on 2 trades, but do not take into account the scaling in smaller lot trades that reduced my overall DD also were the reason I could work out of this unfortunate DD so quickly.  As another commenter has mentioned, my strategy works with larger account size, which it is doing now quite well, and at the time of those two big losses, my equity in my account was only $2400, a very small account in my perspective.

My goal at that point of my account history was to grow my equity, before I took on any clients or subscribers at all.  I took on 3 private clients once I had proven a 200% return and once I had worked out of a 47% DD quite adeptly.  I have no reason to hide that one DD, it was an error and mis-positioning before 15 March Janet Yellen FOMC speech is all.  I have learnt to not repeat that and many other mistakes in the previous 13 years of trading.

I welcome all criticisms and all comments.  As I have developed my trade strategy thru many storms and much hard work and calculation.  I will ride the gravy train until the trading environment and sentiment change.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on May 30, 2017, 05:13:16 AM
I am with the DD% is not relevant in itself as an indication of how good a strategy is - the DD/Net Profit ratio is what matters - ie HOW LONG does it take to recover from an equity dip (without resorting to heavy "recovery" trading of course - i don't know if that is the case - the risk should be linear over time) . If the max DD is equivalent to, say, 2 weeks net profit then that DD will quickly be left behind. Scaling is different from recovery but it is easy to use scaling to disguise geometric positioning. The main way is to look at NET OPEN position at any given time and see if it is consistent and reasonable

If high DD% is driven to excess you can run out of equity/margin of course but that doesn't make the strategy any less good - it just means it is being traded on too small an account and the leverage/trade sizing should be reduced

The problem with DD% in high tens is that "it happened once and it can easily happen again" and the margin limit is very close - yet it might still be a decent strategy - just overtraded. The "50% is hard to recover" applies if you use proportional trade sizes (ie % based MM) when the trade sizes drop as equity drops

Admittedly my argument works better at 25% DD when the margin has more space. You can recover from a 50% DD very quickly but the risk of blowing up is far higher

I agree quite whole heartedly with this knowledgeable and measured assessment.  Good on you for your wisdom and skill.
I have now lessened my risk open at any one time in proportion to my overall equity (40,000 right now) and now I have 5 subscribers on SignalStart and 2 waiting on MQL5, so I have resolved to limit my exposure to a max of 1 core position and up to 5 smaller scale-in positions at any one time with a total max lot exposure of 6 lots.

Now remember, guys, I am a trader first and foremost, mathematician second, and blogger/communicator/educator third.  I will not always have 100% ability or desire to explain my trades, but I will try to be as transparent as possible and as transparent as is wise for my clients and subscribers.
When I say 25-30% max soft DD limit, I leave wiggle room for my discretion to employ some sort of DD recovery tactic and decision-making regarding when it is a good time to exit.
When I say 50% hard DD limit, I will do everything possible to stop the bleeding before this point, and I will be hard at work with my colleagues, associates, partners, and subscribers to determine when to exit "around" the 50% DD line in the sand.  I have seen plenty of excuses and emotional decisions blow up my accounts and others accounts, so I am determined to not repeat this type of behavior now that I have a winning mentality and trade plan.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on May 30, 2017, 05:22:47 AM
In the account history I see  two losing positions. A 36.11% loss, and another 18.10% loss. And those were at the same time. Total more than 50% loss. If they would have hit stoploss, it would have been around -85%. 85 percent of the acount gone (I calculated).

During those loss positions also 4 other positions were openen. I don't see any reasonable cut off point for the positions. I think if one or more of the earlier mentioned 4 positions went for a loss, the account could have been at an even bigger loss.

My problem with this vendor is how does one person recover from 50% DD? 1000 from 500 and you need ONLY have 500 to recover and you cannot use your starting risk anymore as you lost 50%

I would love to compare our results and plethora of statistics, our respective careers, and training.
I recovered from a 47% DD in under 2 weeks.  That is because I didn't succumb to fear and I stuck to my original idea when I opened the trades before FOMC speech.  I also take great delight in the fact that if I had left those 2 losing trades on, they eventually would have come back to profit without hiting my stop loss or giving me a margin call.  But I exited after overbought indicators corrected to important correction levels, and went on to win back the lost equity with another trade, and thus adhered to safe DD measures and also worked hard (whatever it takes) to win back the equity with a sound mind and clear plan.

May I also add that a loss isn't completely a loss until you close the trade.  I know what DD means, but a good trader sticks to his original plan until his DD max levels are breached, or until his idea is proven faulty.  I had enough equity to recover, and that is what counts when you have a winning strategy.  After 721% would you be willing to say that my plan is good?  If not, why not?  And how long would it take to sway your opinion?  why or why not?

I am perfecting this system to be scalable with larger equity infusions.  Volume, broker, time of day, and entry point are all the things I'm considering right now.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: ianj on May 30, 2017, 06:07:37 AM
May I also add that a loss isn't completely a loss until you close the trade.  I know what DD means, but a good trader sticks to his original plan until his DD max levels are breached, or until his idea is proven faulty.  I had enough equity to recover, and that is what counts when you have a winning strategy.  After 721% would you be willing to say that my plan is good?  If not, why not?  And how long would it take to sway your opinion?  why or why not?

Hmm ! "Carrying DD" really only means something if it is statistically significant. If The market moves strongly against a position there is an argument for mean reversion to bring it back and thus increase the argument for carrying more risk, or even increasing it) A Z score can be used, for example, to indicate that a win or a loss is likely next. (10 head flips of a coin might indicate a tail next ??) Statistical significance has scope (usually time) which often fades so any advantage in carrying DD degrades to noise over time

It is very easy for it to degrade into "hope" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias) and we, as humans, are often ill suited to make that choice. Given our ability to carry bias so strongly i would try to avoid being bull headed - I only wish i could practise what i preach more often :)

One problem  with carrying DD (this applies to martingale, recovery, scaling etc) is that the odds may shift slightly in our favor when we try to "get back", but we carry a far higher risk of being knocked out of the game by pure noise. If the market is 10% noise that is a good bet, but it is not 10% !!

I love arguing both sides of a coin - lol

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 04, 2017, 02:59:58 AM
Automated Trading vs. Human manual trading

After 14 years I still vote for humans and manually driven trading.
Hundreds of online forex trading brokers support software that will run automated forex trading software, popularly referred to as “forex trading robots”, or Expert Advisors (EA's).
According to reports over 73% of all US equity trading in 2009 was driven by automatic programs, or algorithms, and over 25% of these trades were on the Foreign Currency Exchange markets. That means that over one-quater of Forex traders are already using automated trading programs to increase their trading profits.

Here are some of the disadvantages of having an automated robot doing your forex trading for you:

1- Downtime – A locally operated computer system running a trading robot might crash or lose its Internet connectivity, thereby rendering a robot unable to close a trade unless orders were already entered.
2- Potential for Out of Control Losses – Unless proper risk management controls are in place and regular human supervision of the trading robot occurs, an otherwise successful trading robot can quite suddenly rack up a substantial set of losing trades if market conditions become especially unfavorable.
3- Inflexibility – Although some exceptions apparently do exist, most trading robots are unable to adapt to changing market conditions. This means that some robots may do especially well in trending markets, while others excel in ranging markets, but neither might trade well in the type of market that it was not designed for.
4- PC Oriented Software – Mac users may find that few, if any, forex trading robots have been developed with them in mind. This means that they will probably need to use Windows emulators to run the forex robot software they are interested in, unless they want to take the time to program their own trading algorithms into web based automated trading solutions that some of the top forex brokers might offer.

I stand with the human traders, on behalf of my subscribers and clients. I like working 2 hours some days, and 18 hours other days.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: forexbaby on June 04, 2017, 04:36:15 AM
No matter what, I wish you all the best.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 04, 2017, 05:00:51 AM
1 - With $500 usd initial investment your returns will grow 10-30% monthly, and after 1 to 2 years, that is exponentially significant.
2 - I suggest choosing Halifax Investment Services as a broker, since you get best prices and immediate execution of the same trades I am making each day.
3 - I would be willing to walk you thru it over Skype, and that would give us a chance to finally meet too.  I am building a laptop lifestyle to have free time to travel, help causes I believe in, spend time with my kids, and to collaborate on other ventures, helping others with a passive income to achieve their own goals.
4 - Once your broker account is set up, MT4 trading platform downloaded and installed, and funds deposited, then...
5 - Subscribe to SignalStart trade copying feed for $69 per month, and apply it to your MetaTrader platform.
6 - You follow my returns, decisions, and reports on Instagram, TradingView, SignalStart, or MyFXBook daily or weekly to stay up to date on how your investment is growing, the technical tools that I use from day to day, and to get a sneak peek into my every day life.

Your profits will cover your subscription fee easily.
Many of my friends and family are benefiting from this very same setup already as it is a very minimal investment and risk, for such a great probability of growing returns.  I would like to assure you of my credibility about my training and education and experience.....

https://www.instagram.com/outsidetheboxhk/
https://www.tradingview.com/u/OutsideTheBoxHK/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryherron/
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk/2087437
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 04, 2017, 05:04:40 AM
No matter what, I wish you all the best.

You, too, my brother.
We should connect on social media.  Pls send me DM so we can keep in touch.  I'd like to shoot you my details.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: petermatt on June 04, 2017, 08:52:19 AM
5 - Subscribe to SignalStart trade copying feed for $69 per month, and apply it to your MetaTrader platform.

Unless I am mistaken the actual monthly cost to subscribe to you is USD$69/month + SignalStart Fee USD25/month which in my currency (AUD$) makes it around $126.25/month which is very expensive when compared to most other signals I have ever followed. Do you plan on offering this service through other signal services who don't charge your clients a fee as well as you? With no free 1 month trial to try the signal on low risk and and only a limited history, whilst I'm interested, I am also a bit leery of putting my account and a very high monthly fee at risk.

Pete
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: forexbaby on June 04, 2017, 10:08:57 AM
SignalStart Fee USD25/month?

I thought is just one time fee  8)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: broncoman on June 04, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
I am not aware of any $25 fee from signal start, just the provider fee.  $69 is an ok fee for the quality of this signal
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 04, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
5 - Subscribe to SignalStart trade copying feed for $69 per month, and apply it to your MetaTrader platform.

Unless I am mistaken the actual monthly cost to subscribe to you is USD$69/month + SignalStart Fee USD25/month which in my currency (AUD$) makes it around $126.25/month which is very expensive when compared to most other signals I have ever followed. Do you plan on offering this service through other signal services who don't charge your clients a fee as well as you? With no free 1 month trial to try the signal on low risk and and only a limited history, whilst I'm interested, I am also a bit leery of putting my account and a very high monthly fee at risk.

Pete

I @petermatt nice to meet you.
There has been heaps of interest in my system this past week thru numerous channels, so it is invigorating to sit down on a Sunday to study the charts, get ready for a new week, and to keep improving my habits and skills so that I can provide a good return to those who follow me.
You raise some good questions.
1. The fee of $69 monthly will increase and decrease based on market demand.  I already increased it once, and looking at the trajectory, I will increase it again to $79 if my models suggest I do so.  I trust mathematics, statistics, and those who have paved the way forward before me.  I bring value to my subscribers, so $100 per month is not much when you just sit back and watch me handle the focus and high pressure and you get 30% to 80% in a month.  Sounds good to me, even if you only have $1000 to start with in your trading account.  My signal is waiting for approval on other well know sites, but it will always be the same monthly fee.  If you lock in the $69/month fee now, then your expense will not change if it increases or decreases in the future.  The $25 fee from Signal Start is a once off charge.  Only for set up.  Compared to a 50% success fee that some professional traders charge for their clients for their managed accounts, I think this signal set up is much better value.
The advantages to managed accounts are that some money managers will share the losing months with their clients, and some also give extra incentives to their clients for depositing larger amounts or for long-term loyalty, and some others even give shares to their clients in their companies.
2. Gotta think huge and be rigorous on controlling your own risk.  I am responsible for entering the trades, but what you control is:

1- exiting trades before I close them if you want
2- switching to "inactive" mode
3- deciding the volume to trade in proportion to your account size (and the risk I am trading)
4- others have chosen to follow my open trades using a demo account the first two weeks or one month, but this still requires an investment towards the subscription cost because we are talking professional services here and considerable returns.

I hope I have not spoken too harshly.  I like to be clear and to the point.  So that we can get busy growing our accounts, compounding our monthly funds, and eventually to empower our freedom and flexibility to do what it is we are here on earth to do. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: petermatt on June 04, 2017, 08:07:38 PM
I am not aware of any $25 fee from signal start, just the provider fee.  $69 is an ok fee for the quality of this signal
SignalStart Fee USD25/month?

I thought is just one time fee  8)
Nice to meet you too Outsidethebox.

From the SignalStart Website:

Pricing
There are no hidden charges or costs. Signal Start Service fee is only $25/month per account (Subscription to signals is billed separately, based on the selected signals). Additionally, if you are a signal provider, we charge only 30% of your listing fee for which you get a complete, professional and managed solution for your signal service.

Time Limited Offer for signal followers! Test Our service for 1 week for $1 only (instead of $25 per month)!

Time Limited Offer for signal providers! Pay only a one time setup fee of $25 (instead of $25 per month)!

Regards
Pete
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: alaali on June 04, 2017, 09:56:35 PM
I already subscribe to the service from the beginning of the month.

Let us see what is the profit percentage at the end of the month.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: forexbaby on June 09, 2017, 05:57:01 AM
I already subscribe to the service from the beginning of the month.

Let us see what is the profit percentage at the end of the month.

awesome, do update us the result
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 12, 2017, 02:17:05 AM
Life as a trader can be a lonely one, if a social support network is not sought, and it can also be fraught with complainers, naysayers, emotional people, double-minded, and those who lack knowledge of the multiplicity of factors that make one trade position one of strength or weakness.

I would like to draw your attention to a period of DD last week with the Outside the Box HK system.

Please analyse and comment as you feel is necessary.
What kind of DD tactics were employed by myself?  What was the end result?  Where were my mistakes?  Where were my victories?


At this point in my development as a professional fx trader, I have to be content, but I always seek to improve and to enter dialogues that are based in reality, positive, and constructive.  Not to mention mature and knowledgeable.

If you do not share these same goals, then you should restrain yourself and remain silent.  Move on to seek your own goals.  Or just do nothing, like many people do.  I am not one of these people.  I have skin in the game.  I am not backing down in fear.  I manage my risk, stand ready to employ trading tactics that each situation calls for, and more than anything I stick to disciplines and patience that have been forged in the fiery furnace of experience, of being in the arena, of having skin in the game.

I received messages from at least two followers who succumbed to their emotions last week.
Was it warranted?
See my FX Poem below.
See also my signature quote.
Never give up.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: castlebrook on June 13, 2017, 07:06:54 PM
Hi
you wrote...

Please analyse and comment as you feel is necessary.
What kind of DD tactics were employed by myself?  What was the end result?  Where were my mistakes?  Where were my victories?

So why the large drawdown last week? What happened?

In an earlier post you said some companies give shares for larger investment. Which companies?

Thanks.
PS Would probably be an interesting ride with you. Roller-coaster maybe?? ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 14, 2017, 05:48:45 AM
If you can't see it in my trade history, then I shall not educate you, as that is not the reason I am here.
I am here to prove that I can make good consistent returns, that I can recover well from inevitable DD's, and that I am always willing to learn and to adjust my strategies to a market that is always changing, always adjusting, and always responding to new things in the world.

I stuck to my plan.  Simple.  I trade like a robot with a human brain.  I had a fundamental belief that GBP was overextended.
I was referring to the Ltd company that I am setting up.  Where I seek to reward high net worth PAMM clients with shares in my company.
Working on it with my partner here in Hong Kong.

Please identity your purpose for asking.  Troll?  hater?  Then I only grow stronger.
I will soon be a PAMM manager with FxPig, a signal provider thru Signal Start and MQL5, and SimpleTrader in August, and I have my own equity too.  I am here to push myself, to stay humble and nimble, and to join the ranks of #digitalnomad traders who have worked hard for their freedom and respect.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: castlebrook on June 14, 2017, 09:52:39 AM
I am disappointed by such a massively defensive reply.
It was a genuine post,  from a seriously interested party. The smiley face I put on my message was put there to show that.
Which part of the smiley face did you interpret as a hater or troll?
Which question I asked did you find so offensive?

Looking at your quote as part of your avatar, I get the impression that you feel life has not treated you well and you have to fight all the time and everyone is out to get you. Maybe that explains such a curt response from you to a genuine post. Who knows.

One thing for sure and I say this in a nice way so you don't go off on one, I'm not sure about your interpretation of humble.
Forget my questions, I have all the answers I need.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 14, 2017, 07:27:16 PM
In my post I asked others to do the analysis.  I have already done mine and that is why I stuck to my plan and came far out of DD.
My job is to trade and to win.  Your job is to do your own homework and to not bother me with stupid questions.

By the way  :P ;) do you know what a good true definition of "humble" is.
Knowing the truth about oneself and the world and behaving accordingly without caring what others feel about oneself. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: forexbaby on June 15, 2017, 04:04:33 AM
Hi guys, I think is a misunderstanding at both sides.

For signal  provider, we do get abused a lot so maybe a bit more defensive at times.

But guys, one more friend is better than enemy. Our aim is pip right? so focus on the business and not emotion etc.

It is very easy to misunderstand each other. Different countries different culture etc  ;D
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: castlebrook on June 16, 2017, 01:35:16 PM
In my post I asked others to do the analysis.  I have already done mine and that is why I stuck to my plan and came far out of DD.
My job is to trade and to win.  Your job is to do your own homework and to not bother me with stupid questions.

By the way  :P ;) do you know what a good true definition of "humble" is.
Knowing the truth about oneself and the world and behaving accordingly without caring what others feel about oneself. ;) ;)

Thanks for that. Says a lot. But mostly about you. Again good luck with your trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: nick3232 on June 16, 2017, 04:26:55 PM
this one is really too risky bot is worth to follow beacause of good amount of his own money ,will see how it goes
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 25, 2017, 12:44:17 PM
Going strong.
And not looking back.
I only grow stronger week by week.

I am ranked #32 on signal start.  and climbing the ranks on MQL5.
I have a clearly defined trade strategy, and I stick to it.  It is based on years of statistics and probability training as a maths teacher, and watching 1000's of hours of price action of 14 years of trading.
For those who doubted my June return, does 23% excite you with very short time of DD.

If you are interested to join my either of my two PAMM funds, contact me.
If you are interested to receive one-on-one Forex Trader Training, pls contact me.

Here is an outline of the 8 module system I have developed with the advice of prop traders and owing to my own experience:

I have developed an 8 module forex trader training system which I have taught as a part of a classroom setting and as a part of online Skype sessions where we go over all the Basics that give a good foundation to become a forex trader that earns consistent profits, either part time or full time.
Here are the modules:

Intro to Forex
 - Forex Charts - indicators, placing trendlines/lines of Support/Resistance
 - How to set up a demo / live account with a broker
 - How to use the broker platform / Metatrader 4
 - Trade details - spreads, swap, market hours, session dynamics
 - How to place different types of orders, forex currency pairs

Trade Setup
 - Risk Management - entry, lot sizing, stops, take profits, timeframes, trade statistics, risk events/volatility
 - Psychology / Discipline - how to stay mentally and emotionally stable as a trader
 - Developing a Trading Plan / Strategy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Plan - 8 hours
PT Trader - 16 hours
Prop Trader - Complete Package including 24/7 skype access to me, 15 real time trading sessions and 20 hours of training
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: dutchie on June 25, 2017, 05:56:29 PM
Hey Greg,

Could you correct the link to your SignalStart?
The one in  in your signature will give me a 400 error (invalid hostname)
Guess http:// is missing in the link

Thanks and interesting approach
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 25, 2017, 10:36:16 PM
Done.  Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: taru on July 07, 2017, 04:47:52 PM
Hi Greg,
Just recently joined your signal on mql5.com. Green pips to us all.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: petermatt on July 07, 2017, 10:05:08 PM
Going strong.
And not looking back.
I only grow stronger week by week.
.............

That has certainly been the case on my account since joining. My recovery from the significant loss I incurred with Reborn when I closed his trades at 30% DD is going well thanks to Greg. It will be nice to get back to Break Even on my account at some point in the future after 3.5 years of running at a loss .

Well done mate.

Regards
Pete
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: megabuck on July 08, 2017, 02:07:31 AM
I'm considering following, but prefer not to give my MT4 credentials and the extra $25/month fee to signalstart.
Have you considered using the signal copier at www.forexsignals.com?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: reinerh on July 08, 2017, 03:35:06 AM
I'm considering following, but prefer not to give my MT4 credentials and the extra $25/month fee to signalstart.
Have you considered using the signal copier at www.forexsignals.com?

myql5 works like a charm, used them in the past.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 18, 2017, 07:12:43 PM
I'm considering following, but prefer not to give my MT4 credentials and the extra $25/month fee to signalstart.
Have you considered using the signal copier at www.forexsignals.com?

Hi Megabuck

I have contacted them yes, about 2 months ago, and Nick told me that he'd like to see 6 months track record for me to be eligible to sell my signal at SimpleTrader, as this is the one that I found at forexsignals.com

I am currently at 5 months and change on my track record, and I have opened account and authenticated everything with SimpleTrader, so that I can list my signal on their page too, in about one month.

You may also find my signal for the same price (and less fees I believe) at MQL5.com
here is the link to my signal over there:  https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: reinerh on July 18, 2017, 08:02:28 PM
i just read the feedback from a user on mq.

its so sad that some people cant figure risk/mm. they are the ones eventually going to stupid marties and blowing their wad.

the one requesting you lower your balance, that is just a bloody mooron.

the mq copier works properly regards mm after all.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: nick3232 on July 24, 2017, 04:39:01 PM
we'll see if it can last a year..
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Trunk on July 24, 2017, 05:25:04 PM
How I can connect to you with my Hotforex platform? Should I open new account?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: taru on July 28, 2017, 01:17:36 PM
I'm having second thoughts about continuing with this signal. It's another counter trend strategy without stop-loss and grid like scaling into losing positions. These are dime a dozen on the social trading websites. These typically have a fantastic run for some time before blowing up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Gpoint on July 28, 2017, 08:12:26 PM
I'm having second thoughts about continuing with this signal. It's another counter trend strategy without stop-loss and grid like scaling into losing positions. These are dime a dozen on the social trading websites. These typically have a fantastic run for some time before blowing up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Agree 100% and more!
He's only an arrogant man that comment only when things go well, then, when he take the wrong side of the market like now on his short NZDUSD basket trades and DD increase, he suddenly disappears and put his head down the send like an ostrich!
More humbleness and less proclaims, dude!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: reinerh on July 28, 2017, 10:28:11 PM
dont know what his cut off point is,

but one needs to look at asad shahs signal, with usd getting hammered there are major moves in place now. asad still kickin so far.

i thought outside uses strict sl, did not know its a grid.

sure hope it turns for you all.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 31, 2017, 03:23:28 AM
How I can connect to you with my Hotforex platform? Should I open new account?

I have only just been approved as a manager of private PAMM funds at three brokerages:  Mt Cook Financial, FXPig, and Hotforex.  Each one has their advantages, but Mt Cook was designed by traders for experienced traders and investors.

FXPig -- Fund named Outside the Box HK -- All you need to do is go set up an account with them, submit Go Live Application in their portal, and then sign LPOA and fund the account after compliance checks.
FXPig said you can interact with them directly, thru the Live Chat or Login Portal, if you'd like to invest in my PAMM with them.  Just open account, fund it, and sign the LPOA for the PAMM management.      https://www.fxpig.com

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 31, 2017, 03:29:00 AM
I'm having second thoughts about continuing with this signal. It's another counter trend strategy without stop-loss and grid like scaling into losing positions. These are dime a dozen on the social trading websites. These typically have a fantastic run for some time before blowing up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

I understand how you can come to this conclusion, but I think it is short-sighted and rash.
Please read the descriptions on MQL5 and SignalStart, and also my News Feed to subscribers that is transparently provided by myself and my assistant thru MQL5's great and open community.
I stand by my trade decisions and my strategy, and that has brought me this far.  My strategy is far more complex and rational than the short synopsis you have created.
Please share with me:

1) what overall returns you have received since subscribing, and from what date?
2) what you see as the factors that are limiting your returns using OTBHK signal

I aim to improve and to grow both skill and equity week by week.
See my new statistics breakdown on FXBlue Live in the link I have added in my signature below.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 31, 2017, 04:04:04 AM
I'm having second thoughts about continuing with this signal. It's another counter trend strategy without stop-loss and grid like scaling into losing positions. These are dime a dozen on the social trading websites. These typically have a fantastic run for some time before blowing up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Agree 100% and more!
He's only an arrogant man that comment only when things go well, then, when he take the wrong side of the market like now on his short NZDUSD basket trades and DD increase, he suddenly disappears and put his head down the send like an ostrich!
More humbleness and less proclaims, dude!

I have communicated on MQL5 recently and I can always be reached thru multiple channels when you have questions and/or requests:

1) Twitter
2) MQL5 signal page
3) Donna Forex
4) TradingView
5) Instagram

Please understand too that many traders work hard many hours a day all year long and these weeks in July are when I try to get away with my family to have some good quality R&R.  I feel I have always been transparent and communicative whenever possible due to the large workload and development of further growth engines.
I was on overseas holiday from 30 June to 17 July, and then I was also under a "ban from messaging" on MQL5 until 27 July.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 31, 2017, 04:15:20 AM
dont know what his cut off point is,

but one needs to look at asad shahs signal, with usd getting hammered there are major moves in place now. asad still kickin so far.

i thought outside uses strict sl, did not know its a grid.

sure hope it turns for you all.

My Stop Losses are hidden and the rules I use have been established according to historical probabilities of using 4 different indicators in a statistically relevant way.... mean reversion and trend following (standard deviation as the basis) are the types utilised.
A 14% DD is well within clearly acceptable boundaries for my trade system, and they have recovered at least 2 times before from more deep DD.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Gpoint on August 25, 2017, 11:01:35 AM
It seems that you target for a steady 10% x month by now, am I correct?

Are you filtering signal in order to try keep DD low?

And what's the reason behind your HUGE withdrawal on your Halifax pro account?

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 25, 2017, 02:12:11 PM
It seems that you target for a steady 10% x month by now, am I correct?

Are you filtering signal in order to try keep DD low?

And what's the reason behind your HUGE withdrawal on your Halifax pro account?

Thanks

Hiya
1 - I target 12 to 20% monthly when all capital is invested for a full 20 trading days and I am not too busy with admin work and board mtgs.  The last two months I have wisely turned down risk in order to attend to business development and setup of new accounts
 
2 - my signal is traded simply with proper risk management as I have done over the last 7 months.
What do you mean by "filter"?

3 - About 10 people have asked me to lower my balance in the account, as their Lot Sizing is too small (below the minimum 0.01 lots) when my account balance is too large.  I have moved this capital into a sub-account which receives the same trades/sizing as the master signal account

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Gpoint on August 25, 2017, 04:53:17 PM
It seems that you target for a steady 10% x month by now, am I correct?

Are you filtering signal in order to try keep DD low?

And what's the reason behind your HUGE withdrawal on your Halifax pro account?

Thanks

Hiya
1 - I target 12 to 20% monthly when all capital is invested for a full 20 trading days and I am not too busy with admin work and board mtgs.  The last two months I have wisely turned down risk in order to attend to business development and setup of new accounts
 
2 - my signal is traded simply with proper risk management as I have done over the last 7 months.
What do you mean by "filter"?

3 - About 10 people have asked me to lower my balance in the account, as their Lot Sizing is too small (below the minimum 0.01 lots) when my account balance is too large.  I have moved this capital into a sub-account which receives the same trades/sizing as the master signal account

Thanks

So, did you now end to develop your business and set up new accounts?

I ask you this in order to try understand if you, starting next month of Sept, will back to finally mainly focus on signal master account trading...

Thank you
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 26, 2017, 02:58:15 AM
It seems that you target for a steady 10% x month by now, am I correct?

Are you filtering signal in order to try keep DD low?

And what's the reason behind your HUGE withdrawal on your Halifax pro account?

Thanks

Hi again

I have not really pared back my focus on the signal account.
I have just temporarily turned down risk, so I can target 12 to 20% monthly with less risk, focusing instead on timing of entries and exits.  I will continue trading the signal account next week, just as I have been doing as recently as one day ago.  Pls check closed trades.

Hiya
1 - I target 12 to 20% monthly when all capital is invested for a full 20 trading days and I am not too busy with admin work and board mtgs.  The last two months I have wisely turned down risk in order to attend to business development and setup of new accounts
 
2 - my signal is traded simply with proper risk management as I have done over the last 7 months.
What do you mean by "filter"?

3 - About 10 people have asked me to lower my balance in the account, as their Lot Sizing is too small (below the minimum 0.01 lots) when my account balance is too large.  I have moved this capital into a sub-account which receives the same trades/sizing as the master signal account

Thanks

So, did you now end to develop your business and set up new accounts?

I ask you this in order to try understand if you, starting next month of Sept, will back to finally mainly focus on signal master account trading...

Thank you
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Gpoint on August 30, 2017, 10:53:10 AM
Gregory, over two months now that I'm getting your signal and you have been steadily trading NZDUSD pair only: I understand you trade it becuase it's a ranging pair, but from your account history I saw in the past you also traded others...
Well, is there any hope you'll get back to diversify your traded pairs or we had to expect NZDUSD pair only for a long time yet?
Thank you
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 30, 2017, 03:58:28 PM
Gregory, over two months now that I'm getting your signal and you have been steadily trading NZDUSD pair only: I understand you trade it becuase it's a ranging pair, but from your account history I saw in the past you also traded others...
Well, is there any hope you'll get back to diversify your traded pairs or we had to expect NZDUSD pair only for a long time yet?
Thank you

I trade what makes money.  I target pairs for highest probability using my system.  I will switch my focus when I feel that window of opportunity has past.  Now, let's focus on making money.
Right?  Aug I ended 13.3%
July was 11.8%
This is success.  Institutional investors and Corporate investors are ringing me up.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Bigsteve on August 30, 2017, 04:02:29 PM
Hello Outsidethebox,
Is it possible to subscribe from my US broker ac count leverage 1:50 without running out of equity with larger lot sizing? Because my account type is a custodial arrangement (an IRA) I need to stick with a US broker per IRS rules.
If yes then what is the starting balance?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Tyler on August 30, 2017, 04:07:15 PM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 30, 2017, 04:13:08 PM
Hello Outsidethebox,
Is it possible to subscribe from my US broker ac count leverage 1:50 without running out of equity with larger lot sizing? Because my account type is a custodial arrangement (an IRA) I need to stick with a US broker per IRS rules.
If yes then what is the starting balance?

Yes there are US brokers limit 50:1 leverage and I suggest you choose either SimpleTrader or MQL5 trade copying service, as they facilitate communication and have better customer service than SignalStart.  SimpleTrader (at subscribe button below) is only $69 monthly for 15 more days.  Then the price moves up to $79 as it is on SS and MQL5.

The starting balance should be $800 to $1000
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 30, 2017, 04:15:17 PM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Bigsteve on August 30, 2017, 05:11:19 PM
Hello Outsidethebox,
Is it possible to subscribe from my US broker ac count leverage 1:50 without running out of equity with larger lot sizing? Because my account type is a custodial arrangement (an IRA) I need to stick with a US broker per IRS rules.
If yes then what is the starting balance?

Yes there are US brokers limit 50:1 leverage and I suggest you choose either SimpleTrader or MQL5 trade copying service, as they facilitate communication and have better customer service than SignalStart.  SimpleTrader (at subscribe button below) is only $69 monthly for 15 more days.  Then the price moves up to $79 as it is on SS and MQL5.

The starting balance should be $800 to $1000
Simpletrader looks good. So all trades are closed FIFO, US rules? Just want to make sure. Thanks!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: dupapa on August 30, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.
Can you then install it. It takes almost 0% cpu. 5 minutes of your time and will give a true equity line to your chart.

Not sure why providers find 5 mins updates so hard when followers manage to do it with ease and the followers are not selling anything. Only ever seen lack of updates via sellers yo make the graph look more sexy

Also if institutions are now ringing you up for your skills why you here? Doesnt make any sense tbh

Sorry not meaning to sound negative but both the points above i think are justified

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: reinerh on August 30, 2017, 11:30:05 PM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.

all it takes is a cheap $10.00 a month vps to run your publishing platform. i am sure you can afford that much, plus be more transparent to your customers.

for a follower its always utmost important to see that trades match up, at least it is for me.

i have seen it many times while following a signal that a glitch occured like a trade not closing out which can hurt badly.

so spending $10 a month will sure pay of for you long term in a big way.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 31, 2017, 08:15:50 AM
Hello Outsidethebox,
Is it possible to subscribe from my US broker ac count leverage 1:50 without running out of equity with larger lot sizing? Because my account type is a custodial arrangement (an IRA) I need to stick with a US broker per IRS rules.
If yes then what is the starting balance?

Yes there are US brokers limit 50:1 leverage and I suggest you choose either SimpleTrader or MQL5 trade copying service, as they facilitate communication and have better customer service than SignalStart.  SimpleTrader (at subscribe button below) is only $69 monthly for 15 more days.  Then the price moves up to $79 as it is on SS and MQL5.

The starting balance should be $800 to $1000
Simpletrader looks good. So all trades are closed FIFO, US rules? Just want to make sure. Thanks!

No not all my trades are closed FIFO.  But most.  10 subscribers in US with US brokers have subscribed and are still getting good returns using my signal in the US jurisdiction with lower leverage and FIFO compliance.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 31, 2017, 08:19:19 AM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.
Can you then install it. It takes almost 0% cpu. 5 minutes of your time and will give a true equity line to your chart.

Not sure why providers find 5 mins updates so hard when followers manage to do it with ease and the followers are not selling anything. Only ever seen lack of updates via sellers yo make the graph look more sexy

Also if institutions are now ringing you up for your skills why you here? Doesnt make any sense tbh

Sorry not meaning to sound negative but both the points above i think are justified

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I will ask the broker who hosts my dedicated VPS if he can add this.
Working on heaps of things here, so I must allocate my time to tasks that are absolutely necessary.
My trade history is clearly made available on numerous sites, and when I update 1 or 2 times daily, the broker data is sent to myfxbook and therefore this doesn't need to happen 24/7 as I am managing the trades for both subscribers and clients.  The charts of my history on Myfxbook, signalstart, MQL5, FxBlue, and SimpleTrader are a true representation of my performance and all relevant stats.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: Tyler on August 31, 2017, 08:24:33 AM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.
Can you then install it. It takes almost 0% cpu. 5 minutes of your time and will give a true equity line to your chart.

Not sure why providers find 5 mins updates so hard when followers manage to do it with ease and the followers are not selling anything. Only ever seen lack of updates via sellers yo make the graph look more sexy

Also if institutions are now ringing you up for your skills why you here? Doesnt make any sense tbh

Sorry not meaning to sound negative but both the points above i think are justified

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I will ask the broker who hosts my dedicated VPS if he can add this.
Working on heaps of things here, so I must allocate my time to tasks that are absolutely necessary.
My trade history is clearly made available on numerous sites, and when I update 1 or 2 times daily, the broker data is sent to myfxbook and therefore this doesn't need to happen 24/7 as I am managing the trades for both subscribers and clients.  The charts of my history on Myfxbook, signalstart, MQL5, FxBlue, and SimpleTrader are a true representation of my performance and all relevant stats.
When a signal provider have difficult to update Myfxbook every 5 minutes is always a big red flag, there is clearly something to hide. I'm out from this one.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 31, 2017, 08:26:58 AM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.

all it takes is a cheap $10.00 a month vps to run your publishing platform. i am sure you can afford that much, plus be more transparent to your customers.

for a follower its always utmost important to see that trades match up, at least it is for me.

i have seen it many times while following a signal that a glitch occured like a trade not closing out which can hurt badly.

so spending $10 a month will sure pay of for you long term in a big way.

Not sure if you are a subscriber of my signal, or just a competitor who is trolling me, but the truth remains the same..... My performance and track record show a true representation to all in the public who want to analyze my trading and my system.  You also must do your due diligence to make signal follower settings and such, and then we each make decisions each month on how to maximise my returns.

** Please  all those with legitimate inquiries, I have been working hard to serve you well.  Others, who are attempting to engage in nefarious and selfish objectives, take your stinky attitudes elsewhere.

(By the way, my signal income goes to feed the kids of my best friend in the USA, and I am setting up a charitable father-son Christian fellowship similar to adventure scouting here in HK, so please keep your false allegations to yourself and launch them at someone without spine, goodness in their heart, or without 14 years experience in the FX industry.  What I do with trading for profit and offering trade copying subscriptions is my business).
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: dupapa on August 31, 2017, 08:51:19 AM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.

all it takes is a cheap $10.00 a month vps to run your publishing platform. i am sure you can afford that much, plus be more transparent to your customers.

for a follower its always utmost important to see that trades match up, at least it is for me.

i have seen it many times while following a signal that a glitch occured like a trade not closing out which can hurt badly.

so spending $10 a month will sure pay of for you long term in a big way.

Not sure if you are a subscriber of my signal, or just a competitor who is trolling me, but the truth remains the same..... My performance and track record show a true representation to all in the public who want to analyze my trading and my system.  You also must do your due diligence to make signal follower settings and such, and then we each make decisions each month on how to maximise my returns.

** Please  all those with legitimate inquiries, I have been working hard to serve you well.  Others, who are attempting to engage in nefarious and selfish objectives, take your stinky attitudes elsewhere.

(By the way, my signal income goes to feed the kids of my best friend in the USA, and I am setting up a charitable father-son Christian fellowship similar to adventure scouting here in HK, so please keep your false allegations to yourself and launch them at someone without spine, goodness in their heart, or without 14 years experience in the FX industry.  What I do with trading for profit and offering trade copying subscriptions is my business).
Thats the point its not a true rep at the moment as your only updating once a day.

Be good if you do as say and get it setup.

Your vps provider wouldnt care tbh

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 31, 2017, 09:21:19 AM
I update the Myfxbook EA 1 to 2 times daily, and if you want more instantaneous info regarding open trades, may I pls suggest looking at one of the other instantaneously updated, independently verified trading track record sites that compiles this info below?

Thanks again for your help, and I hope you find what you seek at SimpleTrader, SignalStart, MQL5, Myfxbook, and FXBlue.  Cheers.

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box-HK.html
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk/2087437
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347
Title: Re: Outsidethebox (SignalStart)
Post by: reinerh on August 31, 2017, 01:26:13 PM
Hi Greg,
can you please update your Myfxbook account every 5 minutes, which is default.
Thank you.

Hey yea I do this as often as possible.  I don't have the MyFXBook EA Publisher hosted on the dedicated server 24/7, so I have to open my computer version of MT4 to accomplish this updating.
I do this at least once a day.

all it takes is a cheap $10.00 a month vps to run your publishing platform. i am sure you can afford that much, plus be more transparent to your customers.

for a follower its always utmost important to see that trades match up, at least it is for me.

i have seen it many times while following a signal that a glitch occured like a trade not closing out which can hurt badly.

so spending $10 a month will sure pay of for you long term in a big way.

Not sure if you are a subscriber of my signal, or just a competitor who is trolling me, but the truth remains the same..... My performance and track record show a true representation to all in the public who want to analyze my trading and my system.  You also must do your due diligence to make signal follower settings and such, and then we each make decisions each month on how to maximise my returns.

** Please  all those with legitimate inquiries, I have been working hard to serve you well.  Others, who are attempting to engage in nefarious and selfish objectives, take your stinky attitudes elsewhere.

(By the way, my signal income goes to feed the kids of my best friend in the USA, and I am setting up a charitable father-son Christian fellowship similar to adventure scouting here in HK, so please keep your false allegations to yourself and launch them at someone without spine, goodness in their heart, or without 14 years experience in the FX industry.  What I do with trading for profit and offering trade copying subscriptions is my business).

nope, i am not a subscriber and neither a competitor. somewhere down the line i might be and trust me it will be fully transparent when and if i do.

btw, for many years i have been advocating transparency and honesty and trying to help anybody along the way and thats all what my post was about.

and trust me on this one, during my 12 years trading fx i have seen a lot.

Title: Outsidethebox ------->>> News and Promotions for Investors/Subscribers
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 10, 2017, 10:08:31 AM
The signal at Outside the Box HK is a limited offer deal. In October I will increase the price to $99 if the returns are over 10%, and I will continue to service traders using the signal, and allow you to keep using it (at least for now). But to preserve the integrity of my liquidity fill, and strategy, I eventually want investors/subscribers to know about the PAMM structure that I have set up with some great introductory offers.

These offers will give you incentive to make the switch to Mount Cook or to HotForex (and soon with Halifax NZ) and to join with my excellent returns for the long haul.

If you have questions, either message me here or at:
otbhk01@gmail.com

By November 1st then the signal price will increase again, if the returns are above 10%, and new signal subscriptions will then be closed.

The signal subscription option will open during Limited Time Offers throughout the coming months after November 1st to let more people in, given certain restrictions to the maximum capital that can be used in your account with the Trade Copying Signal.

After November I also will introduce Trade Copying Subscribers to the excellent signal administration and customer service at SimpleTrader, and eventually I will encourage subscribers to set up an account with them if you choose to stay with Trade Copying investment strategy.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Tyler on September 15, 2017, 07:11:00 PM
Big DD here, and accidentally Myfxbook is not updated since a week.
Really not honest behavior, stay away from this.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 16, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
Big DD here, and accidentally Myfxbook is not updated since a week.
Really not honest behavior, stay away from this.

i guess we found out why its mysteriously not updating or updating at will,

oldest trick in the book.

hope you recover unscathed tyler.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on September 16, 2017, 07:06:51 AM
You can check the current situation at http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
It is %18.04 DD now.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petersurrey on September 17, 2017, 12:53:13 PM
The biggest single factor for investors failing is over leveraging - and it is easy to see from the trader's track record that 50%+ DD is very possible/probable ..so the simple solution is trade with 1/10 risk...IF the trader can continue to deliver 40%+ monthly returns the rewards are still excellent..
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 17, 2017, 05:32:41 PM
The biggest single factor for investors failing is over leveraging - and it is easy to see from the trader's track record that 50%+ DD is very possible/probable ..so the simple solution is trade with 1/10 risk...IF the trader can continue to deliver 40%+ monthly returns the rewards are still excellent..

yes overleveraging is always the real killer = greed.

the current dd is actually not all that bad. my personall max number is 30% from which a recovery is still possible.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 17, 2017, 08:55:45 PM
Big DD here, and accidentally Myfxbook is not updated since a week.
Really not honest behavior, stay away from this.

This has nothing to do with "dishonest or honest".  I am not always in my home office where my computer terminal has the MT4 application with the myfxbook publisher EA loaded on it.  Therefore there are times when I cannot update the myfxbook stats.
This goes for times of profit too!  I have logged 3 profitable trades since the last time I updated the myfxbook site too.  I will be updating it at the market open Monday, as SimpleTrader staff have asked me to update it too.
May I once again remind you that:

1 - I have already kindly directed those who would like updated trade status / profit / DD
and need instantaneous info regarding open trades, look at one of the other instantaneously updated, independently verified trading track record sites :

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box-HK.html
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk/2087437
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347

2 - If you again are worried about my ability to trade during DD's, please look back at discussions here during previous DD periods, and it's always the same.  People come out and unintelligently bash me (these same people who have trusted me enough after due diligence to be their signal provider, or who are my competitors) and doubt me.  And at least 2 other times in the past 5 months, I have diligently recovered despite people openly ridiculing me.
I cannot even imagine investing my hard earned cash with a money manager and then publicly insulting him??  This just makes no sense whatsoever.  Like me insulting my basketball coach in high school.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Aplmustdie on September 18, 2017, 10:40:59 PM
This has nothing to do with "dishonest or honest".  I am not always in my home office where my computer terminal has the MT4 application with the myfxbook publisher EA loaded on it.  Therefore there are times when I cannot update the myfxbook stats.

Actually, it does.  It is a well known exploit to turn off updating to show a much lower drawdown than actually occurs on the account.  No matter your intention, it is still a cheat. 


Not sure if you are a subscriber of my signal, or just a competitor who is trolling me, but the truth remains the same..... My performance and track record show a true representation to all in the public who want to analyze my trading and my system.  You also must do your due diligence to make signal follower settings and such, and then we each make decisions each month on how to maximise my returns.

** Please  all those with legitimate inquiries, I have been working hard to serve you well.  Others, who are attempting to engage in nefarious and selfish objectives, take your stinky attitudes elsewhere.

(By the way, my signal income goes to feed the kids of my best friend in the USA, and I am setting up a charitable father-son Christian fellowship similar to adventure scouting here in HK, so please keep your false allegations to yourself and launch them at someone without spine, goodness in their heart, or without 14 years experience in the FX industry.  What I do with trading for profit and offering trade copying subscriptions is my business).


Actually, what difference does it make if they are subscribers or not? If you are unwilling to answer the question say "FO" and leave. YOU are trying to advertise your signal, this requires answering questions to satisfy people who have been scammed again and again.  I'm sorry if your feelings got hurt, but you came her on your own accord and weren't dragged here kicking and screaming.

I have already kindly directed those who would like updated trade status / profit / DD
and need instantaneous info regarding open trades, look at one of the other instantaneously updated, independently verified trading track record sites :

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box-HK.html
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk/2087437
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347


This is not really a great resume . . . it is well known Simple Trader has never been able to get their stats correct.  The next three links are not very straight forward.  The last two links, histories, lot sizes, etc., being hidden indicate that you are hiding information.  Before you go off on a tangent about "the world is out to get my super fantastic system that has never been done before", hold and pray has been around for a very long time.  The fact is, in a long trend, you will wipe out the account unless you take a huge loss.

If you again are worried about my ability to trade during DD's, please look back at discussions here during previous DD periods, and it's always the same.  People come out and unintelligently bash me (these same people who have trusted me enough after due diligence to be their signal provider, or who are my competitors) and doubt me.  And at least 2 other times in the past 5 months, I have diligently recovered despite people openly ridiculing me.

So you have gotten out of a few scrapes with only a 47% drawdown . . . congratulations.  So have most of us here.  I'll tell you what, show me a real account where you have been trading for more than two years with this strategy, without blowing the account and I'll be quiet.  It is unsustainable and will fail.

I cannot even imagine investing my hard earned cash with a money manager and then publicly insulting him??  This just makes no sense whatsoever.  Like me insulting my basketball coach in high school..

So you are saying we should just throw money at anyone saying they are a money manager.  Ok Bernie Madoff, you are the one being ridiculous. ???
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 19, 2017, 02:44:15 AM
1.  Again, amidst a slew of normal work, I will do my best to answer your questions in a timely manner.  Just please know that I have posted the answers to many questions in this forum and others at the links above.

2. I am not attempting to hide anything.  As many have already seen here.  I can understand all your concerns, but a money manager, must first and foremost take care of their trading and keep eye on markets, and that means at times I am slow to updating, responding, and giving appropriate communication on certain "real time" trading events / strategies.

3. Myfxbook shows my trade history.  Just checked.  Lots and open trades must remain private due to the significant funds I am managing on behalf of my clientele - which relates to intellectual property, protecting open trades, and protecting privacy of my intentions to manage those trades going forward.  other money managers have cautioned me about this and they do the same.  Hopefully next year I won't have this problem, or this exposure will be limited.

4. I strictly trade the system that has carried me/us this far.  Speculation about the future is left up to each individual, so if you believe this trade system is not one you trust or like, I certainly respect that.  Others can choose/decide differently.

5. It is my goal to trade this Master Account for at least 2 years yes.  As far as my certification / licensure as a money manager.... I am under licensure by ASIC (Australia), CySEC (Cyprus), FSC (Mauritius), and FSB (South Africa).  Finally I am currently working with Halifax NZ to qualify for licensing thru FMA (Managed Discretionary Accounts licensing) in the setup of a trade system (signal and PAMM) at their brokerage.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Aplmustdie on September 19, 2017, 04:10:54 AM
I am slow to updating, responding, and giving appropriate communication on certain "real time" trading events / strategies.

If this is truly the case, why not have the MyFXBook EA on the account.  Open a new chart, add the EA, enter your MyFXBook email and password.  Set the update to 5 min.  You are done.  It takes no more than a few minutes.  Not having time is an excuse, pure and simple.  There is no justification that you can give that cancels that fact.

3. Myfxbook shows my trade history.  Just checked.  Lots and open trades must remain private due to the significant funds I am managing on behalf of my clientele - which relates to intellectual property, protecting open trades, and protecting privacy of my intentions to manage those trades going forward.  other money managers have cautioned me about this and they do the same.  Hopefully next year I won't have this problem, or this exposure will be limited.


https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk/2087437
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347

The above links do not show anything under the Trading History as all are marked private as well as hidden lot size.  Hardly an example of someone who has nothing to hide (includes History).  The rest of the above is simply Blah, Blah, Blah.  You act as if Hold and Pray with a modified grid is something to steal.  There are not a lot of people that want a system that allows a 47% DD.

4. I strictly trade the system that has carried me/us this far.  Speculation about the future is left up to each individual, so if you believe this trade system is not one you trust or like, I certainly respect that.  Others can choose/decide differently.

I agree, others can choose/decide for themselves.  I just want to make sure they have all the information up front to make that decision.  Most investors have been burned by scams, fly-by-night snake oil salesmen, and idiots selling free systems that work until the account is blown.  If I can save one person from going down that road, I will.

5. It is my goal to trade this Master Account for at least 2 years yes.  As far as my certification / licensure as a money manager.... I am under licensure by ASIC (Australia), CySEC (Cyprus), FSC (Mauritius), and FSB (South Africa).  Finally I am currently working with Halifax NZ to qualify for licensing thru FMA (Managed Discretionary Accounts licensing) in the setup of a trade system (signal and PAMM) at their brokerage.


That wasn't my question.  If you've been trading for so many years, let's see your accounts (over 2 years).  I asked for a real account on which you have been trading this system.  Do you have one?  What's the longest you have had an account trading this system?  Let's see it.  Ok, you have a few certifications.  Certifications are in place to protect the consumer.  They basically tell you what you can and can't do.  I was also a financial manager in my younger days.  In addition I held a Series 7 brokerage license.  I can take a dump in a box and certify it.  That doesn't make it smell any nicer.  Setting up a PAMM doesn't require anything special, I have run several over the years.  Quite frankly, I see nothing for you to be bragging about. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 19, 2017, 05:22:44 AM
1. Pls check myfxbook links again, as I have ask my friends to check and they say history is public.

2. regarding myfxbook EA, I set it up initially with advice from a finance professional who was helping me at that time.  if you can't see real time updates via myfxbook, pls find open trade status at the other links I have listed here.

3. Well I hope you seek truth in a professional way from now on.  Your language is inflammatory and accusatory, while I have sought to work hard to be responsive and transparent.  You continue to act like you know I am "guilty" of scamming, when quite the opposite has been found by others who have invested with me.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Aplmustdie on September 19, 2017, 12:43:30 PM
Maybe you should take your own advice.  Talking down to seasoned traders and making excuses is something that is not taken well.  Such action leads to inflammatory language and accusations, especially when your excuses and belittling comments are inane and have no purpose.  Good Luck! ::)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 19, 2017, 02:43:33 PM
Personally, I think the exchange between you two has been rather fully fleshed out. No need to descend any further into negative back n' forthing. Feel free to let readers decide what they think about what you've both said from here on.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on September 19, 2017, 06:08:52 PM
Agreed Pyscho. I am convinced Aplmustdie and others who feel they have a gods given mission to defend the newby masses of the world, could take a different approach and instead of fighting and showboating, try to work together with traders. When things turn in to a fighting match, it doesn't help anyone and if anything just ends up aggravates traders even more then they need to be which hurts investors. Greg you likely can learn from this as well probably too, not just Aplmustdie.

Geesh, the guy has listed like 10 social trading sites listed there. Its pretty easy for me to see his open drawdown. I don't see the problem. If myfxbook isn't updating at the interval you would like, then use another one.

Click signal start for example. I can easily see he is betting heavy on NZDJPY, hes down about -19%, with about +6% growth already banked (so net negative about -13% on the month). For a banked return of +1300% since the start of the year it doesn't seem that bad to me. It is of course highly aggressive trading. And not much time. I think everyone can see and understand that pretty easily. Just use common sense. Invest a comfortable amount and limit your risk. This appears to be available as a signal so you can use it in your arsenal however you need. I would either use it as a signal (and I am contemplating getting it) or join in mt.cooks PAM, as they have tools like a signal to set your risk.

Hopefully this one goes the distance. If you can capture another 1300% with relative easy to stomach dradowns there can be some profits to be had for lots of us. But both parties keep it productive please so we don't have to sift through pages of showboating to get the information we need.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 21, 2017, 09:25:14 AM
I appreciate all the comments, but just not the back seat driving.  I have plenty of ideas and trader friends, and this time I made a loss.  I embrace the really bad feeling, push thru the emotion, and don't want to blame or lash out at anyone but me.
I am buckling down, resting up, and dialing in my focus and discipline for a smooth recovery and additional profits.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 21, 2017, 09:59:57 AM
kudos that you took the loss,

a reasonable loss can be recovered easily.

but trust me i have seen many many others who did not have the courage.

like the one below, who recently blew a 2 million $ pamm to smitherines, which of course has since vanished. only 2 showing anymore.

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/AsadShah/reborn-master-account-active/934547


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on September 21, 2017, 04:59:07 PM
Yes, I am glad to see you take a loss as well. You cannot win long term without doing that occasionally. Glad to see a bit of humility too! The more arrogant a trader is, the more the trolls on forums seem to just wait for you to take a loss, then will kick you when down. It is always best to take a humble approach to trading. The markets have a way of chewing people up right at the top of their game.

Reinerh, did asad blow that account to zero? It looks like only an -18% loss on your myfxbook. I have heard that he did take a big hit though.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 21, 2017, 05:24:49 PM
jwatts,

reborn,

the blown reborn 2 million $ account there were a few hundred thousand left or so going by memory.

he had several other accounts which also took a huge hit, which since vanished of course.

i seen countless other providers like that over the years.

so taking the loss was great, and now
to make things even better spend $10 a month going forward to rent a vps to update myfxbook in a timely fashion so that followers can see that their trades match and dd is showing accurately.

i am sure that would be highly appreciated by all your signal followers.

this is just a suggestion no more no less from a to date non vendor ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 21, 2017, 06:20:58 PM
Actually, maybe this would be helpful; you don't even need a VPS for regular updates to Myfxbook.

Myfxbook allows traders to update via providing their investor password to Myfxbook. You can see the details here under "Verifying my track record (Metatrader 4)"

https://www.myfxbook.com/help

Cheers
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 21, 2017, 06:33:27 PM
Actually, maybe this would be helpful; you don't even need a VPS for regular updates to Myfxbook.

Myfxbook allows traders to update via providing their investor password to Myfxbook. You can see the details here under "Verifying my track record (Metatrader 4)"

https://www.myfxbook.com/help

Cheers

good suggestion, but...............

thats a bit iffy canadian, essentially they could forward signals without consent.

i would not do that.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: CanadianPsycho on September 21, 2017, 06:42:55 PM
Actually, maybe this would be helpful; you don't even need a VPS for regular updates to Myfxbook.

Myfxbook allows traders to update via providing their investor password to Myfxbook. You can see the details here under "Verifying my track record (Metatrader 4)"

https://www.myfxbook.com/help

Cheers

good suggestion, but...............

thats a bit iffy canadian, essentially they could forward signals without consent.

i would not do that.

You mean Myfxbook could sell his signals without his consent?

I suppose they could. Have they ever done that?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on September 21, 2017, 06:51:39 PM
have no clue if they did, but its certainly doable on their end.

actually i think they should be decent/honest.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 22, 2017, 07:23:13 AM
jwatts,

reborn,

the blown reborn 2 million $ account there were a few hundred thousand left or so going by memory.

he had several other accounts which also took a huge hit, which since vanished of course.

i seen countless other providers like that over the years.

so taking the loss was great, and now
to make things even better spend $10 a month going forward to rent a vps to update myfxbook in a timely fashion so that followers can see that their trades match and dd is showing accurately.

i am sure that would be highly appreciated by all your signal followers.

this is just a suggestion no more no less from a to date non vendor ;)
----------------------------------------------------
Yes humility and honesty are key.
I have launched the recovery today.... adding 1.2% to my recovery effort.
New marketing campaign:

I am learning how to generate consistent returns and to keep risk and DD to a minimum for a stable and long future of profit
DD will now be lowered to 20% going forward with targets of 10 to 20% monthly
Check it out and join 135 subscribers and 30 private fund clients
-------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Tyler on September 22, 2017, 08:35:17 AM
maketing man  :-X
jwatts,

reborn,

the blown reborn 2 million $ account there were a few hundred thousand left or so going by memory.

he had several other accounts which also took a huge hit, which since vanished of course.

i seen countless other providers like that over the years.

so taking the loss was great, and now
to make things even better spend $10 a month going forward to rent a vps to update myfxbook in a timely fashion so that followers can see that their trades match and dd is showing accurately.

i am sure that would be highly appreciated by all your signal followers.

this is just a suggestion no more no less from a to date non vendor ;)
----------------------------------------------------
Yes humility and honesty are key.
I have launched the recovery today.... adding 1.2% to my recovery effort.
New marketing campaign:

I am learning how to generate consistent returns and to keep risk and DD to a minimum for a stable and long future of profit
DD will now be lowered to 20% going forward with targets of 10 to 20% monthly
Check it out and join 135 subscribers and 30 private fund clients
-------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 30, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
Happy weekend to all!
As this month we got caught in our first down month, I have lowered the signal price to the $69 base.
Of course, I am confident that thru my continued hard work we will recover yet again from this current DD, and regain new highs, and I again have learned from this period of xxxjpy trades.
Pls trust me that I am confident now that October will take us back up to the equity highs.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: mandela123 on September 30, 2017, 10:18:32 PM
Hi OTBHK
Just my observation from your signalstart stats.With your 10k account you have been trading roughly at 00.10 lots per open position.You take a pretty big knock when you get caught on the wrong side of the market.Dont you think it is a huge mistake by increasing the risk to be trading at 00.30 lots per trade of whatever is left off your equity to simply recover your loss as fast as possible?. In my opinion with all the maths and trading skills you profess to possess this is a text book case of newbie trading errors.
All the best in your recovery 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 01, 2017, 06:42:38 PM
Pls review my previous posts where I have clearly explained the risk management policies that I have used over the past 7 months of trading.... with both core positions, secondary positions, entries/exits, trade strategy, and max lots open / risk at any given time.

I have not breached these policies, and they have led me to 1122% gain in 7 months.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 02, 2017, 01:53:07 AM
(https://donnaforex.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmutualfunds.com%2Fmedia%2FW1siZiIsIjIwMTYvMTAvMTEvNGpnNm1lZWFpdl9zaHV0dGVyc3RvY2tfODcwMzEwMzcuanBnIl0sWyJwIiwiZW5jb2RlIiwianBnIiwiLXF1YWxpdHkgODAiXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjIzMngxNzQjIl1d%2Fshutterstock_87031037.jpg&hash=253641b8d39d77140ce2c24ba8d44f4b)

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/richard.thaler/research/pdf/MyopicLossAversion.pdf (http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/richard.thaler/research/pdf/MyopicLossAversion.pdf)

After witnessing a lot of unproductive and sometimes downright abusive interaction between managers/providers and their subscribers/investors, and after reflecting on the human condition and my own life and career, my research came across a wonderful and pithy study entitled "Myopic Loss Aversion and the Equity Premium Puzzle, published in Feb 1995 in the Quarterly Journal of Economics.
Myopic Loss Aversion (MLA) can be described as the tendency of investors who are loss-averse (the pleasure felt after observing a gain is inferior to the pain experienced after a loss of an equivalent size) to evaluate their portfolios too frequently. And thus make rash and poor investment decisions over longer periods of time (that fall outside their narrow focus until it is too late).
Complementing the theory behind MLA is a number of laboratory experiments that have found evidence consistent with it. The structure of these experiments revolves around varying the frequency of feedback to subjects, and examining if the information provision impacts investment patterns.
In general, the literature reports that individuals who received infrequent feedback invested between 30 percent and 80 percent more in the risky asset than individuals who received more frequent information, a pattern consistent with MLA.
To summarize their findings: “Those investors, who are highly loss averse and frequently evaluate investment performance and rebalance investment portfolios, tend to have low equity holdings in their financial portfolios, which is likely to lead to utility losses over investors’ lifetimes. However, once individuals establish their portfolio allocations according to their levels of both loss aversion and myopia, myopic loss aversion is no longer associated with further decreases in their levels of equity investment. Our results support the suggestion that long-term investment vehicles (such as defined contribution pension funds) should offer default asset allocations with higher proportions of equities in order to provide potential for more gains from market participation across a broader range of investors.”
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 02, 2017, 04:01:04 AM
Hi OTBHK
Just my observation from your signalstart stats.With your 10k account you have been trading roughly at 00.10 lots per open position.You take a pretty big knock when you get caught on the wrong side of the market.Dont you think it is a huge mistake by increasing the risk to be trading at 00.30 lots per trade of whatever is left off your equity to simply recover your loss as fast as possible?. In my opinion with all the maths and trading skills you profess to possess this is a text book case of newbie trading errors.
All the best in your recovery

...... UPDATE.....
the trade you referenced has just been closed in profit for 1.22%
Thanks for your concern.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 08, 2017, 03:06:04 AM
Hello and a good weekend to you. Regarding MAX Drawdown........

Pls understand professional traders require targets / lines in the sand that are not precise and angular, at least that is what my strategy demands. I take a much more "holistic" and "multi-dimensional" view of the current price action and market environment when I enter a period of DD.

As you can see in the most recent DD period, I hit max of 31% DD, when I had said 30% on many forums. I now greatly LAMENT that I cut that core position, because that was the PAIN POINT that the banks, brokers, and institutions were aiming for. Then the monthly resistance and trendlines were hit. If I were trading for myself, I would not have exited that trade, and I would have been smartly rewarded for not doing it. You can see 82.65 we got stopped out. And now, just 2 weeks later, mean reversion has kicked in, momentum is now heading for daily and weekly support, and price is at 79.80, and we sit at only 2% DD. Those who set Risk Multiplier too high and then got stopped out may have lost 60%. This is unwise and wreckless. I must be the one who has sole control over Risk Management, whereas if you set Risk Mutliplier and/or set individual trades of your own, set stop loss or take profit in your MT4 account, then the responsibility now rests back on your shoulders to manage your positions.

I aim for 20% DD "softly" and will trade accordingly to protect that limit, but I do not set it as a STRICT limit.

I have my own investment account Risk Multiplier following my trade strategy set at 1.1x and I allow subs and clients to set theirs at their own risk. This is always in the control of the individual client as is the Rescue Level

I am gradually recommending clients/subs to follow my trade strategy with equity of $5000 minimum so that they can capture Nominal returns that are significant enough to add value to your daily lives

Compounding gains over 6 months to 1 year is always the strategy I recommend for my clients, and to limit negative emotion during periods of temporary DD. This is my business plan and trade plan, and I have followed it quite rigorously for the intended goal of attracting capital invested thru signals AND PAMM funds, and then eventually encouraging investors to take a good look at sticking with my money management journey either thru Trade Copying at SimpleTrader under $50,000 equity or for equity invested over that amount, eventually to switch to one of the PAMM funds. I will keep both active, but I am cautioned by many knowledgeable professionals to guard my trade system against those who might use it for purposes that I do not control or can be aware of
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: dupapa on October 08, 2017, 09:27:13 AM
In effect what your saying is you wont respect a cut off level.

While you give your 31% example of a reason not to use a stop its not that simple.

At the moment you where at 31% in DD you cannot know for sure if the posistion will go further into dd or not.

While this time it would of worked out. In future you cannot predict this.

Answer me this.  That last stopout. If you held on in the hope it turns around and it didnt. At what point your wrong. 40? 50? 60?%

Not respecting a line in the sand/ not using a cut off is a risky game. While it can work out ok most times one day it wont. Ive seen many a stubborn trader do this an fail.

But Its good your open about it


I do understand the thinking behind the way you are operating. I run a couple of mu own small higher risk accounts this way,  So I hope your new lower soft stop at 20% gives you enough space to get out of trouble. For me if i had clients i would only ever use a hard stop so no suprises going forward. But each to their own

  Good luck with your signal going forward. :)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 08, 2017, 11:22:37 AM
In effect what your saying is you wont respect a cut off level.

While you give your 31% example of a reason not to use a stop its not that simple.

At the moment you where at 31% in DD you cannot know for sure if the posistion will go further into dd or not.

While this time it would of worked out. In future you cannot predict this.

Answer me this.  That last stopout. If you held on in the hope it turns around and it didnt. At what point your wrong. 40? 50? 60?%

Not respecting a line in the sand/ not using a cut off is a risky game. While it can work out ok most times one day it wont. Ive seen many a stubborn trader do this an fail.

But Its good your open about it


I do understand the thinking behind the way you are operating. I run a couple of mu own small higher risk accounts this way,  So I hope your new lower soft stop at 20% gives you enough space to get out of trouble. For me if i had clients i would only ever use a hard stop so no suprises going forward. But each to their own

  Good luck with your signal going forward. :)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

What I am saying is that the soft limits/stop losses are taken into grave consideration and balanced with a view of momentum, indicators, and fundamental backdrop on multiple timeframes when I must decide on scaling out or scaling into positions that have already been set.
Higher timeframe resistance/support and overbought/oversold and divergences are more statistically relevant and more predictably powerful.  Therefore are given more weighting in my decisions.
In that situation I chose to reduce exposure, conserve working capital, and to wait for future opportunities to add to the position to recover losses.  This is what I have done in the past 2 weeks and will continue doing over the next 2.

"Answer me this.  That last stopout. If you held on in the hope it turns around and it didnt. At what point your wrong. 40? 50? 60?%"

The answer is that it all depends on major event risks and how big traders / players respond and position themselves afterwards (that particular event risk was FOMC of Sept 20).  Therefore there was a high statistical probability that prices would correct after that risk had past (buy the rumour and sell the fact), and that is exactly what happened.

Thanks for your question and your support.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 09, 2017, 08:30:31 AM
Live interview with former Credit Suisse quant trader ---

A great video by ForexSignals.com looking at how to invest and trade with a fund manager who has Risk Management in place and a good proven strategy.

Good explanation of how I trade.
https://youtu.be/15RuL7wkp-U (https://youtu.be/15RuL7wkp-U)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 25, 2017, 03:47:39 PM
INVESTORS~~

Changes only affect those with significant capital following this signal.

A summary of slight changes to Max Funds / Future Signal Pricing fluctuations:

Accounts over $50,000 may use MQL5 signal -- price may increase on MQL5 in November or December

Accounts under $50,000 may use SimpleTrader -- FIXED PRICE --- those who want to stay on Trade Copying and not switch to PAMM Fund Management at Mt Cook Financial

Accounts under $50,000 may also use MQL5 / SignalStart --- but price may gradually increase --- as these Trade Copying Signals will NOT have restriction of Maximum Cap on Funds allowed to follow the signal -- and this means that investors can profit 10 to 15% monthly with significant amount of funds and pay a monthly subscription fee instead of profit sharing thru performance fee.

The final trade in the NZD basket has now been closed in profit! This basket was open for an unusually long duration, lessons have been learned, skills gained, and not too much damage has been done, nearing all time highs in equity again. Basically I need to limit duration of positions longer than 20 days or more than 130 pips in Drawdown. That's what the data says.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the maximum funds cap has now been set at $75,000 that can follow this trade system. Once we surpass High Water Mark in Equity this max cap will be lowered to $50,000. The gains that one investor can make (with quite low risk) using $25000 to $50000 on this trade copying signal are substantial.

Funds greater than the Max Cap can be put into second account with Trade Copying (or higher signal price at MQL5/SignalStart)

OR invested under my PAMM funds that I manage at Mt Cook Financial which have no maximum investment and a tiered performance fee framework.

End of year and 2018 bring many new changes to my personal life, and you can follow some of my personal journey seeking a simple, sustainable, off-the-grid, digital nomad at the social links below.

Let me know if you have other questions or concerns. Prices for signals have not increased yet. I want to surpass equity highs first.

http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70

https://fs20.formsite.com/app-212/lpoa-outsidetheboxhk/index.html

https://www.instagram.com/outsidetheboxhk/

https://twitter.com/OTBNZ

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryherron/
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 28, 2017, 02:44:35 AM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ongoing discussion RE: Ranking System/Calculation with @Matei21 in response to his earlier comment:
Matei21 Oct 22 at 14:50
Hi. I had some problems with their website regarding the Investor pass on my accounts. I have e-mailed their support and they were very fast in response and took care of the problem asap. I would appreciate some sort of modification to their formula for ranking the signals as some signals are very good the first month and then they do not trade much just to stay on top. I think the good signals that are more than 2-3 months old and have good steady performance and safe DD should be higher up in the ranking. This way the subscribers would be more happy and trade more safer for the long term. Just my opinion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normally this site is ok.  I have offered trade copying there for about 4 months.
but the ranking system has recently allowed huge numbers of poor systems to gain all the first top 100 ranking spots!!

PLEASE JOIN ME IN POSTING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM ELSEWHERE UNTIL IT CHANGES
OK. Time for many more details on the Ranking Situation.
I have performed a study on using their filter to narrow down the results of trade systems listed on their site with these parameters:

1 - Above 500% gain
2 - Age of system over 6 months (this is the biggie as looks like scammers are making new accounts just to get lucky on some low risk trades and then rank high on this list that has a very poor ranking method - as real traders and investors know)
3 - Drawdown below 50%
4 - Price below $70

THE RESULTS ARE ATTACHED AS SCREENSHOT FROM SIGNAL START WEBSITE

1 - This is very unjust to those signal providers who work very hard (over 9 months) to build their returns
2 - I urge Signal Start to review their ranking calculations and REVISE them based on a weighting system and Parameters that really do matter in determining a system's value.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 01, 2017, 03:21:28 AM
October results - Quite Good

We're in it together.  12.44% for October
When I win you win.  When you win I win.

This month saw Outside the Box trade system recover 90% of losses from September.

I've acquired more learning and skill regarding recoveries and the patience, skill, and techniques to employ.

Targeting 10 to 15% return in November.
(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1509499439ADadMD.JPG)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 03, 2017, 03:23:18 PM
nice month sir. It is nice to have a few options on the table now with people offering some good signals. If you can stay away from the long drawdowns this is going to be very good
Title: Re: Outside the Box Signals-- HotForex Social Trading LAUNCH
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 05, 2017, 10:09:09 AM
HotForex will be launching Social Trading (unique blend of Trade Copying and Fund Management) in the next 2 weeks sometime.  There are other brokerages that have experienced wild success with this type of Trade Following.
This new Social Trading is OPEN TO EUROPEAN MARKET AND RESIDENTS, which IS THE BIG NEWS.

Here is a basic description of what it will be like:  https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hotforex-launches-hf-social-an-advanced-social-trading-service-497964151.html


http://www.forex4you.com/en/about/
Forex4You already has this type of Leader/Follower set up and running, and they charge followers commissions and give Leaders a part of that commission.  They allow Leaders and Followers to communicate, participate in the community, see statistics of Leaders, and have rankings that are linked to statistics.

HotForex's style of Social Trading will involve a blend of subscription fees and monthly performance fees, offering both investor and manager some control of risk, stop losses, take profits, and manual control. I will update you once their new program is launched.  I received a marketing phone call this weekend from HotForex as they want to inform professional FX traders first, so we can serve as quality Leaders in this new program once it is started.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: zaltan on November 08, 2017, 11:52:10 AM
Good results so far.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 13, 2017, 05:57:14 PM
a new FX trade system stats analysis tool that is the best I've seen yet
FXStat


http://www.fxstat.com/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720
It has some interesting statistics... like "Scalability" and "Discipline"
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Gpoint on November 15, 2017, 08:04:50 AM
Just another BIG HIT, that vanish all month profit and even more...
In my opinion, you should REALLY limit your trades to NZDUSD pair only (ranging pair), the other ones are not for you my friend...
GP
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Gpoint on November 15, 2017, 08:39:16 AM
Ok, just set up simpletrader control panel in order to copy on my account only trades on AUDUSD, NZDUSD and GBPAUD (3 pairs ONLY), coming from your signal.
Made this choice according with myfxbook statistic of your master account.
Want to cut off unnecessary risk.
GP 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 08:53:17 AM
Ok, just set up simpletrader control panel in order to copy on my account only trades on AUDUSD, NZDUSD and GBPAUD (3 pairs ONLY), coming from your signal.
Made this choice according with myfxbook statistic of your master account.
Want to cut off unnecessary risk.
GP

yes that is the life of a trader and life with the strategy and skills I have gained.
It is not my intention, and I of course will work hard to recapture at least 5% return for the month of Nov.
We are only down 1% in this month at the moment.
I had over 9% gain before that bad EUR setup (retail sentiment was 70% short) in only half a month, so my skill have shown that I will recover.  As I just did in September.  Hang in there and keep watching me like a hawk.
Trying to learn other pairs, but yes I trade NZD and AUD much better.
Yes, you can limit the pairs your signal takes, but of course you'll miss out on those baskets if I enter one in the future.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Gpoint on November 15, 2017, 09:12:44 AM
Ok, just set up simpletrader control panel in order to copy on my account only trades on AUDUSD, NZDUSD and GBPAUD (3 pairs ONLY), coming from your signal.
Made this choice according with myfxbook statistic of your master account.
Want to cut off unnecessary risk.
GP

yes that is the life of a trader and life with the strategy and skills I have gained.
It is not my intention, and I of course will work hard to recapture at least 5% return for the month of Nov.
We are only down 1% in this month at the moment.
I had over 9% gain before that bad EUR setup (retail sentiment was 70% short) in only half a month, so my skill have shown that I will recover.  As I just did in September.  Hang in there and keep watching me like a hawk.
Trying to learn other pairs, but yes I trade NZD and AUD much better.
Yes, you can limit the pairs your signal takes, but of course you'll miss out on those baskets if I enter one in the future.

Your "learning phase" should be already finished BEFORE you started selling signal.
PLEASE, if you want learn trading other pairs, do it on demo or real but NOT on master account you use for signal, because, in this way, you play also with subs money.
On signal master account trade ONLY pairs you know better and you are able to trade (the three I chosen according with myfxbook statistic), don't use signal master account (and our subs accounts, so) to test, experiment new pairs to learn how to trade them, do it wherever else, thank you!
GP 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 09:20:49 AM
Point taken.  You never stop learning.  I've been here before, I can recover.  Just please be patient.
Experience is the only real teacher.  I understand your concern, believe me.  I have traded for 14 years.
I know the risks and the damages.
Every trader has losses, and we have to keep going.  so it would be kind of you to not make our jobs even more difficult.
We are in this together.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 15, 2017, 09:43:37 AM
That was my first thought there. You NEVER stop learning. if you were done learning this account would be 100000% and maxed out.

I do get the point though to limit any "experimentation" on investor money.

Can you clarify for me, what is your maximum drawdown expected in a given month?

thank you.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 11:19:44 AM
Ok terrible day for Outside the Box. Prices moved way too fast. A lot of off balance sentiment towards USD
I know we'll have a lot of explaining to do but I am trying to limit the damage the best I know how.
4H timeframe killed me. I will recover as I have done in the past. Just let me know if you need a more in depth explanation for clients and I will give one. I am still in the thick of it. about -12%
So not as deep as other DD's
All I can say is the environment was not suited to my strategy and I got the analysis wrong. And I will work methodically to recover damages.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 15, 2017, 11:20:29 AM
That was my first thought there. You NEVER stop learning. if you were done learning this account would be 100000% and maxed out.

I do get the point though to limit any "experimentation" on investor money.

Can you clarify for me, what is your maximum drawdown expected in a given month?

thank you.

20 to 23%
Title: MY LIFE AS A DIGITAL NOMAD... Outside the Box Thinker and Doer
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 20, 2017, 01:36:25 AM
Hi Investors, subscribers, and Clients:

Just wanted to start the week off by giving you a complete list of all the information I have made available about my life and my work as an "outside the box" Forex Trader, Fund Manager, and Trade Copying Provider.
I define myself and do life the way I feel is right.  Living out of my true self and feeling proud of who I am and what I have accomplished.  Aiming to do much more of that in the months to come.

**I am planning to vastly alter the way I live in the next 6 to 12 months. Many of the old structures in our society have failed me in the past 3 to 5 years. **

I am packing up in Hong Kong as we speak, then going on business trip in Vietnam for 2 months, then moving back to start a very simple life, Exploratory Road Trip of 4 months, and bold action steps in the Americas.
I am a digital nomad, Fund Manager earning income online thru performance fees and trade copying monthly subscriptions. I hope to meet Anna and Tijo at the Arcane Bear (traders and digital nomads) next year sometime when I travel to North and South America.  I will be visiting Influencers and Key Stakeholders in areas such as.....


Tiny House Movement, sustainability, freedom, simple and quiet/humble life, living off the grid, renewable energy, truth/justice seeking, and most of all RELATIONSHIP. 
I have started a Dream Wall Mosaic Map for the next 6 months and just putting all the pieces together.  That's how I'll live, one day and one piece at a time.
Surrendering to God what only He can control and do, and managing what I can in my own courage, intelligence,skills, faith and power.  Will be great to meet others in the community, as it is time for awakening and for bold steps.

If you would like to see how I have sought freedom, happiness, health, value, and sustainable life see my work and life at links below.  Would be happy to collaborate with Arcane Bear Family as my new life manifests:

1. https://my.hotforex.com/en/pamm/showDetail.html?managerID=1141086
2. http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70/
3. https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437

4. https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryherron/
5. https://www.youtube.com/user/gregandsonia/videos?
6. https://www.instagram.com/outsidetheboxhk/
7. https://twitter.com/OTBNZ
8. https://www.tradingview.com/u/OutsideTheBoxHK/
9. http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
10. https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box-HK.html
11. https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461
12. https://www.fxjunction.com/?rf=O8SY5K
13. https://copy.forex4you.com/en/leaders#/6767853/overview

14. https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720
15. https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Gpoint on November 20, 2017, 05:45:43 AM
Ok, all good and beautiful.... But the signal service for the next 2 months during your business trip in Vietnam?
What about your subscribers?
Please, explain, TY.
GP
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 20, 2017, 07:59:21 AM
Ok, all good and beautiful.... But the signal service for the next 2 months during your business trip in Vietnam?
What about your subscribers?
Please, explain, TY.
GP

I have even more time undisturbed to trade and manage funds and subscribers when I travel.  No distractions from the office or from HK people.  This is why I am getting away over Christmas, so I can trade in peace and quiet and grow those accounts.
I would always notify you if I was going to be away from the screens for longer than one day.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Gpoint on November 20, 2017, 09:07:35 AM
Ok, got it.
TY for the clarification.
Gp
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on November 26, 2017, 12:35:58 AM
Thanks for all the updates. I just switched over to following via this forum from the other one where your signal is offered. Looking forward to some green days ahead!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 29, 2017, 02:09:04 AM
Great advice from Andrew Lockwood of ForexSignals.com --
1) structure and rules for FX trading
2) Technical analysis combined with Fundamental understanding
3) Price Action
4) Being disciplined and knowing your system
https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe
 (https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe)
This is how I trade too for my 40 Fund clients and 95 trade copying subscribers.
** By the way, check out Marcos @Maxima Investments too
Different style but he knows what he's talking about
https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE (https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Tyler on November 29, 2017, 07:42:14 AM
what's the matter with your performance? unless is a way to keep up you thread.

Great advice from Andrew Lockwood of ForexSignals.com --
1) structure and rules for FX trading
2) Technical analysis combined with Fundamental understanding
3) Price Action
4) Being disciplined and knowing your system
https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe
 (https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe)
This is how I trade too for my 40 Fund clients and 95 trade copying subscribers.
** By the way, check out Marcos @Maxima Investments too
Different style but he knows what he's talking about
https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE (https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 29, 2017, 11:02:59 AM
what's the matter with your performance? unless is a way to keep up you thread.

Great advice from Andrew Lockwood of ForexSignals.com --
1) structure and rules for FX trading
2) Technical analysis combined with Fundamental understanding
3) Price Action
4) Being disciplined and knowing your system
https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe
 (https://lnkd.in/f6D3Jhe)

This is how I trade too for my 40 Fund clients and 95 trade copying subscribers.
** By the way, check out Marcos @Maxima Investments too
Different style but he knows what he's talking about
https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE (https://lnkd.in/fj_GrJE)

Hi Tyler.

6.5% for November
12.4% for October
Not sure what you mean.  These are excellent results.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on November 29, 2017, 12:51:21 PM
Hi outsidetheboxhk,

I've just subscribed to your signal too.  I've started with half the risk (0.72 risk factor for a USD account) as potential 30% DD seems a little high to stomach.  I may adjust later, but do not want to be greedy.

One query - I elected to copy the take profit & stop loss values across, but only the TP is marked as 'set by the provider'.  Do you also set a SL on each trade that will get copied?

 
Thanks for offering your signal and I wish you continued green pips!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 29, 2017, 01:37:43 PM
Hi outsidetheboxhk,

I've just subscribed to your signal too.  I've started with half the risk (0.72 risk factor for a USD account) as potential 30% DD seems a little high to stomach.  I may adjust later, but do not want to be greedy.

One query - I elected to copy the take profit & stop loss values across, but only the TP is marked as 'set by the provider'.  Do you also set a SL on each trade that will get copied?

 
Thanks for offering your signal and I wish you continued green pips!

Ruairi

Nice to get some positive feedback.  Glad we are riding the high wave of profits!
Yes Risk Multiplier is yours to set depending on your appetite for rewards and drawdowns.
As you can see I have limited Drawdown to a maximum of 26% over the past 8 months.  I aim to limit it even more in the months ahead as I become more savvy with accurate entry levels and additional trading strategies that I am learning to employ in different environments of the market.  Market is ever changing, so we must adapt with it.

As I have commented in other threads, I only use "visible" stop losses on open trades during times of event risk and high volatility.
I have a stop loss for each trade, though, established in the trade copying software that I use on VPS, so my SL's are hidden from the public and those who may wish to harm our trades (market makers and brokers).
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on November 29, 2017, 04:09:56 PM
outsidetheboxhk, thanks for your swift reply. 

I'll leave my settings as they are then, with both TP & SL to be copied (where you physically set them).

Don't want to swamp this thread with questions as it detracts you from trading.  I'll pitch in if I've got any feedback for you as we go forward.  I'm looking ahead to some great signals.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on November 29, 2017, 06:27:59 PM
Just chiming in to add my thanks here. I recently joined up this month right after the drawdown, and it's been nothing but green so far. I started with full risk since looking back at this signal's history, I'm liking the overall monthly gain to drawdown ratio. Very impressive stuff. Great system you have going here; keep it up!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 04, 2017, 04:19:36 PM
outsidetheboxhk,

That's four positive trades on the trot now that you have given me since starting last week - thank you. 

All the best going forward.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 06, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
So outsidetheboxhk, first loss booked for me today following a 'drifter' - AUDUSD long left overnight.  I saw that you had extended the stop to try and avoid getting stopped out but not to be so -65.7 pips so that puts me in the red overall.

To your credit, you are already on it to trying to recoup with a string of (admittedly smaller) winners - 5 of those on the trot since.

However there is another 'poor' AUDUSD long entry at ~0.76332 which has gone against us and is sitting at -67 pips at present and I can see you have shifted the stop to around -113 pips to keep in and below what we hope is solid support.

My gut reaction to such trades is that if they do get away then there is a lot of catching up to to with a lot of smaller TPs versus larger stops.  It's easy to say let the winners run and cut the losers, but your style is almost akin to scalping - not for a few pips but not many more than a few and with larger stops so it reminds me of scalpers which can work brilliantly and then if there are a few losers close together, that's when things get difficult to recover.

If that latest 'drifter' comes back I hope we can close it for a small loss / b/e.

Still, you have done exceptionally well this year without my mumblings so I will leave you to it.  You obviously know how to milk those small winners and string them consistently together recovering from the larger losing trades.  Profit factor has slipped from 5.99 to 5.92.  I can hardly accuse you of being of poor statistic.

As you were, you human scalper digital nomad machine!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 07, 2017, 01:57:35 AM
Yes whipshaw volatility on news can be of different sorts.  The type this time was probably driven by pending orders being triggered and Algos responding to GDP news data when their systems "read" it.
Anyway, I had buy and sell orders bracketing the price in order to catch some pips, but prices moved too quickly up and back down, literally 1 second.  There isn't much else to do in these situations but stay out of currency trades during news releases, which is what I work hard to attain, but sometimes (the times I have made the most significant losses) I choose to ride it out.

I continue to trade the same strategy every day, and these forex markets are a science and an art form.  You must accept randomness and periods of both profits and losses.  Not focusing on just one day, but the opportunity as a whole.  Then and only then will you have the fortitude to not give up too early, before you have mastered patience, resilience, determination, prudence, and wisdom.

My strategy uses the core concept of mean reversion, and sometimes prices take longer to revert to the mean.  This is statistically taken into consideration for risk management and money management. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 08, 2017, 07:48:10 AM
I have received many messages so again I will write here to assure you that I continue with the same strategy that accomplished the gains so far.

All the negative and harsh feedback does not accomplish a good end. So please be confident that drawdowns are a normal part of trading and also have been factored into my Trade Strategy, Risk Management, Probability, Profit factor, Risk/Reward, and Risk % of each trade and basket of trades.

As I have said in the past when I have had a loss, these times come, and I continue to study about when and how my losses occur.
In order to make enough profit to cover subscription fees and to profit from a fund, you must stay invested at least 3 to 4 months and then make your assessment taking into consideration a good sufficient period of time.
This is the nature of trading and the professional approach to take.

The AUDUSD pair had abnormal features and factors at the time I traded, and I am re-assessing how to avoid that environment in the future and how to mitigate risks. I talked to a London trader and he told me that many market players were using trailing stop losses on the AUDUSD, and any xxxUSD pair, in the 4 days leading up to Non Farm Payrolls report released on Friday USA time. This affected the natural rhythm of the patterns that normally occur, and I decided to cut the risk before it worsened heading into a risk event like NFP.

I have recovered from 20% and 30% before. This time it is 9% which shows that I am growing in my management to not accept such large losses.

I of course will employ the same grit, analysis, hard work, and commitment to recover this time as I have done 3 or 4 times just this year.

Please be attentive to the overall curve, and how it is unproductive to jump on my case when it was not intended and I was only trading the same plan I have traded up to this point and that I have communicated from the start on my signal and Fund descriptions.

If you have any other comments or questions, I'd be happy to explain.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/00/b8/56/00b8563863e2d00bcbd26e42fadac947.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 08, 2017, 07:54:40 AM
My plan is to re-enter the AUDUSD basket once the market confirms a bottom on the daily and weekly timeframes and we will recover with that mean reversion after Non Farm Payrolls report Friday and also a bit of EURAUD scalping mixed in
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 08, 2017, 10:47:45 AM
outsidetheboxhk,

Yes, that was an unfortunate run of long AUDUSD trades against the downward trend.  Two things happened that I can see :-


Maybe we were just unlucky here and the expecetd 'mean reversion' didn't come soon enough, but to me it ws a little worrying to enter and load up more trades in the 'wrong' direction.

This is not ciriticism, just that it goes against 'the trend is your friend' mantra that we all hear.  You are doing something that has been working so you should probably resist tempation to change it greatly, but thinking about getting out of trades that are not going as expected a little earlier may help ensure that recover does not take as long (especially when scalping small TPs).

Good luck with the recovery!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 08, 2017, 12:50:01 PM
Ruairi

This type of mean reversion / scale-in trade system has worked during certain timeframes and certain market environments in the past.  Only one time did I have to cut a trade in the basket (as long as the money management is right) in July.  All other times the strategy has recovered.
The new challenge is how to assure less sophisticated subscribers and fund clients (with different risk tolerances and short term mindset) that the time horizon is very important .... a longer term mindset.  Regardless, if I want to trade for subscribers then I must take this into consideration.

When I was trading for myself before June, you can see how much more profitable my trading / system was with my own account.
Different strategies / at different times require different mindsets, and I employ different strategies dependent upon goals and the market.

One new long was entered on a spike AUD news release that quickly (1 second) reversed and this again was very unfortunate but can be avoided in the future by avoiding currency pairs that potentially can be affected by upcoming news.

it is very easy for followers to "correct" my decisions after they have already played themselves out.  This is the consistent problem that I face with "all knowing" subscribers who come to me and claim that they knew certain things at certain times, even though they must know much more about risk management (TP's, SL's, avoiding risk, staying abreast of constantly changing market info) in order to be as consistent as I have been.   My profit factor, recovery factor, Sharpe Ratio, and Colmar Ratio are still very very good.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 08, 2017, 04:41:26 PM
it is very easy for followers to "correct" my decisions after they have already played themselves out.
Exactly, and I don't want to sound like I am telling you that you did it all wrong!  Stick to your system - the system you trust, and has proven itself profitable and why I signed up.

Don't take my comments as a critique  - just observation on the last basket of losing trades on the same pair, in the same direction.  I have missed the 'scaling in', methodology as not been in long enough to see such baskets open in real time and play out.  To some it may have looked like 'good money after bad', but if those trades had turned as you anticipated then there would have been jubulation.  Just be consious of how long to hold onto the losers which are moving immediately away in the wrong direction and moving stops to avoid a stop out.  There, I've done it agin now haven't I?

I'll shutup now and let you get back to it and thanks again,  for doing what you are doing.  Don't change it if it isn't broken.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 09, 2017, 11:08:40 AM
Yea for sure.  I hear you believe me.  These are all thoughts I have every single day as a trader and money manager.
You can rest assured that I am adhering to these principles of which you spoke.  Give it time.
And I will work us back to recovery.
Sometimes taking a break after a wrong trade and then coming back with fresh Technical and Fundamental Analysis, and then applying good Risk Management is all it takes to get back into the groove again with the various strategies I use.
I have proven it in the past, so this is what I commit to once again.
Thanks for your positive mindedness and choosing to be constructive instead of immediately harsh.
It makes all the difference to we traders who have a lonely professional at times, where you don't receive thanks and credit when times are good, and the opposite gets verbalised when times are tough.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 21, 2017, 07:33:17 AM
Dear investors,

I can certainly tell you I (as a trader and father of four) have learnt some more gratitude and hard work ethic this year.
Please take a little bit of time to reflect on spiritual peace and acceptance this holiday season.  We all must work hard during the year, as I currently am still doing - even while travelling, 6 days a week.
Outside the Box now has a positive track record of 1 year, so far 10 months of gains and 1 month of loss.  If you take the perspective of 3 to 6 months this kind of signal should make you more than enough profits to warrant subscription and continuing a subscription.
May you all embrace truth, speak truth in love, and believe in what you can achieve in the new year.  May God bless you during these grandest holidays.  Let's make this world a better place in which to live and prosper.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-pamm/2206347

(https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/j/josephcampbell/384345/josephcampbell1.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 21, 2017, 04:45:23 PM
Greg,

Happy Christmas to you.

NB. I closed that current NZDUSD long drifter when it got back to close to break even last night.  It's actually in a few pips profit now so ripe for closing if there is a risk it has topped out again.  However, I have to admit it looked like another strange setup to me i.e. -

Go long NZDUSD, then when it goes against us, go short NZDUSD with another trade of the same size, then go short again with a trade of half the size and close those out for profit whilst leaving the original long to drift down into the red.  It's gone back up now as I say, but it makes me nervous after the last drifter turned into a loser larger than the normal winners.

It's still working though, so stick to it...

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 22, 2017, 12:29:57 PM
Ruairi

You as the signal subscriber always have the control to open or close trades on your own.  That is one advantage to trade copying as opposed to fund management.
The situation you described is called temporary hedging, which I chose to use successfully in the current market dynamic, as information and patterns warranted it in a real time, constantly evolving market.
All goes well and I hope you see now why I did that at that time.  It's all based on momentum and timeframes.  One core position of longer duration and smaller short term positions to profit in the meantime.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 22, 2017, 04:00:08 PM
Hi Greg,

Yes, the two shorts worked well with quick turnaround and take profit.  The long remains open still though as we approach Christmas holidays / weekend. 

You describe yourself as a scalper, but some trades do drift on for a time and it's those that may cause concern.  I'll keep watching and learning how you are trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 23, 2017, 04:06:24 AM
Scalping can span 2 to 4 days if I am mixing my normal strategy with others.
The best, most experienced traders do not limit themselves to only one strategy, which is what I also am learning and wanting to do.

Each week, month, and period has it's own characteristics, and it is the difficult task of the Fund Manager to determine which market environment we are in, then choose carefully the right strategy, risk management, position size, and time horizon that is appropriate.  This week went amazingly well.
The repetitive December cycles are lining up with technical analysis to create high probability setups right now.

stayed in the current position, as it is going well and moving to the profit target.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on December 29, 2017, 03:03:32 PM
Bad luck Greg, a poor end to the month - just when you were getting back towards level for Dec.

I'll stick with you, and hope for improvement in the new year.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 29, 2017, 03:11:40 PM
Yes I was on the wrong side of month end and year end flow during low liquidity.
I am writing an official update for clients and subscribers and will get that to you tomorrow.

I of course am committed to the task at hand:  recovery and greater consistency in profits.
10 months positive and 2 months of losses this year.  Always must keep learning, employing the trade strategy more efficiently and effectively, and keep my mind on the pulse of the market.

Thanks for sticking with me.  This has happened 4 times this year, and I have proven that my strategy recovers nicely and that I am committed to continuing in this profession no matter what.  More details tomorrow.

Despite the unfortunate end to December, Happy New Year, and I expect more success to continue with the trading for 42 clients and 75 subscribers.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 30, 2017, 11:58:14 AM
Bad luck Greg, a poor end to the month - just when you were getting back towards level for Dec.

I'll stick with you, and hope for improvement in the new year.


(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/62/d0/6f62d084d5e215091a596579dfd1b516--trading-quotes-determination.jpg)
The months of drawdown are always tough ones to address but this is the life of funds, traders, and investments.

December saw an immediate drawdown which I recovered from nicely all month until the last couple days.
Month end and year end flow made for a one-sided market (attributed to institutional flows in an environment of low liquidity) that did not exhibit normal sinusoidal price movements and we also experienced a weekly timeframe price extension.  I had a mental stop loss set of .7124 as that was a technical area of R3 on the weekly, former major support turned resistance, and level of trendline channel resistance. 
Another drawdown countermeasure / tactic that I have been utilising with excellent success (to limit losses) has been hedging 3 positions over the last month.  Upon further reflection and after seeking to limit exposure before the month end long weekend, I realise I should have waited for the current candle to close above .7124 resistance, and we would have been back into profit on one position and nearly half way back to profit on the second position.

In months past, I would have let this drawdown extension ride, given my chosen "mean reversion" strategy.
But now with 140 clients it is no small responsibility, to assure as many investors as possible that exposure and risk are managed within certain palatable limits.  And to act in a disciplined manor at levels around 5 to 7% drawdown.
The biggest lesson I have learnt from this price extension is that I needed to scrutinise the technical analysis (inverted head and shoulders price calculation and a "candlestick wick" right slightly above major resistance) just a bit more "flexibly" and wait for 5 min or 15 min candlestick close for confirmation before I close.

Now (after healthy price correction) you can see that my strategy does indeed work.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I take the losses with reservation, but they do come.

In the last 3 months my equity is up 14.3%.
In the last 1 month my equity is down 7.9%.
In the last year my equity is up 226.5% (real gains).
See most complete statistical breakdown of my fund's performance here:
https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720
 (https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720)

I am 100% full time and committed to recovery and further gains in Q1 and the new year.
The best fund managers conserve capital during a loss so that they may come back another day to trade with the best base and ability to recover and achieve new equity highs.  I have learned that 10% drawdowns are 4x more difficult to recover from (which I have done 4 times over the past year) so this is mostly why I chose to cut losses before the uncertainty of the month end locked us in -- with possible gap opens to price in the new year, new month, and new week.

I am willing to answer any more questions, and I would like to retain my clients and subscribers so that I can keep doing what I am doing, learning from constantly changing circumstance, and overcoming the curve balls that the market is so good at throwing.
In the new year my main goal is:

   --- work on Risk Management tactics, calibrating entry levels, and allowing winning trades to extend their gains before taking profit too soon.


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on January 19, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
I think I'm going to stop subscribing to this one - it's just too stressful to see 'scalping' trades allowed to go so far against us in the hope that they come back again.

The latest AUDUSD trades are another example where the position went against us (-73 pips on one trade), and we load up and add another position in the same direction.  I've seen this loading up strategy used to incease position size as a trade moves in the right direction but I don't like to see it used this way.  It's like "I'm calling the top here so going short".  "Oh wait, it wasn't the top, let's leave that one open though anyway and open another short against the current direction".

These trades may come back again but they are very dangerous when scalping for small numbers of pips.  The current master account graph bears testament to what is happening when you allow the losers to outweith the winners.

It may work out for these trades, but there is no visible SL on them and they are concerning.  This is not really my cup of tea, sorry.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on January 19, 2018, 01:55:23 PM
Great opportunity now for that short on AUDUSD.

If the other trades get back to near opening price I'll close them off before the weekend.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Ruairi OPleurisy on January 19, 2018, 05:01:32 PM
Closed those two out for a loss before the weekend.  Too risky to leave grovelling for a few pips.

I can't stomach the way this works so I'm afraid I'm out.  Good luck with it going forward.  No doubt it will be profitable again now that I've stopped...

Goodnight Irene.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petermatt on January 20, 2018, 12:02:31 AM
I can't stomach the way this works so I'm afraid I'm out.  Good luck with it going forward.  No doubt it will be profitable again now that I've stopped...
Goodnight Irene.

I completely agree with you and that is why I also quit the signal after only a few weeks.

Pete
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 20, 2018, 02:39:44 AM
I think I'm going to stop subscribing to this one - it's just too stressful to see 'scalping' trades allowed to go so far against us in the hope that they come back again.

The latest AUDUSD trades are another example where the position went against us (-73 pips on one trade), and we load up and add another position in the same direction.  I've seen this loading up strategy used to incease position size as a trade moves in the right direction but I don't like to see it used this way.  It's like "I'm calling the top here so going short".  "Oh wait, it wasn't the top, let's leave that one open though anyway and open another short against the current direction".

These trades may come back again but they are very dangerous when scalping for small numbers of pips.  The current master account graph bears testament to what is happening when you allow the losers to outweith the winners.

It may work out for these trades, but there is no visible SL on them and they are concerning.  This is not really my cup of tea, sorry.

Ruairi and Petermatt and others who care to look at the underlying statistics and probabilities of my system:

1 - First of all, I know firsthand everything of which you speak.  I had to analyze price action and technical charts for about 9 or 10 years before I had my statistics confirmed and backtested and emotions checked at the door.  See attached screenshots of the technical analysis that supports my ideas.  As I have said before (and I know you probably remember this), different strategies / at different times require different mindsets, and I employ different strategies dependent upon goals and the market.  I am predominantly employing a scalping mindset, but dependent upon market environment and realtime developments, an active trade does develop into swing or scalp targets as the market dictates.  It's important to stay flexible and yet abide by safe risk parameters.  Which I have clearly laid out in the system description.
2 - I understand you do not care for the time in drawdown, given the returns.  This is for each individual to choose and to cope with.   As you see on FXStat, MyFXBook, FXBlue, SignalStart, and MQL5 ...... here are the stats to bear in mind when choosing to invest:
    Recovery Factor:  9.58
    Profit Factor:  5.63
    Colmar Ratio:  5.12
    Sharpe Ratio:  0.22
    Profitable Trades:  96%  (out of 551 trades)
    Track Record Length:  12 months
    Max Drawdown:  44%  (this occurred once early in my compounding phase)
    Max Drawdown (last 6 months):  26%
    Equity Growth (since inception):  226%
    Equity Growth (last 3 months):  5.25%

3 - See relevant links:
https://www.tradingview.com/chart/AUDUSD/uK0dvb9s-Short-AUDUSD-on-4H-timeframe/
https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437
   
Title: ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY!!
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 15, 2018, 02:22:09 PM
These last few months my Trading Strategy has experienced the final most fierce challenge for its first year. This forex industry is so very exciting, interesting, but also dog-eat-dog at times. FX is great, you get so many life lessons.  :P
We work hard to study, to execute, to hold to our premeditated plans, and to keep our lives properly balanced. My hope is that I can be the type of fund manager that brings more light, more openness, and more honesty to a space that is many times described as being filled with strife, dishonesty, and heart-break.

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437​​​​​​​ (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437​​​​​​​)
https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720 (https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720)
https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk (https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk)
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-pamm/2206347 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-pamm/2206347)

To celebrate the Outside the Box Strategy One Year anniversary I bring two notices of good news.

1..... #1 Ranking on PsyQuation  https://psyquation.com/#!/home/leaderboard (https://psyquation.com/#!/home/leaderboard)
A Unique Platform for Identifying & Developing Trading Talent


2...... Approaching High Water Mark, 10 of 12 months positive profit, and the following Trading Performance

Absolute Gain: +227.08%
Profit Trades: 96.1%
Profit Factor: 5.59
Recovery Factor: 9.63
Sharpe Ratio: 0.78
Calmar Ratio: 5.14
Sortino Ratio: 0.26
Omega Ratio: 2.05


(https://psyquation.com/images/fb.jpg)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 09, 2018, 03:54:51 PM
Profitability of Outside the Box strategy is now evident.
Places to invest in my strategy:  SimpleTrader, MQL5, SignalStart, FXJunction, Mt Cook Financial (Fund)
https://www.simpletrader.net/signals.php?do=view&id=7992&active=news

NEW all time high in equity and I'll just keep trading exactly the same defined strategy going forward.


Thanks for your investment, patience, resilience, knowledge, and faith.
May God bless us all!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 16, 2018, 12:52:23 AM
Ouch. Painful day right after we hit equity highs. Hopefully we return to green days soon!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 18, 2018, 05:39:37 PM
Ouch. Painful day right after we hit equity highs. Hopefully we return to green days soon!

Hi @5ninefish and all subscribers / clients of Outside the Box strategy and fund:

After taking some time to recuperate physically, mentally, and spiritually I am once again excited to let you know my insight, reflection, and goals going forward.
I am always striving to be both introspective and bold with my trading strategy that has taken 100's of hours of hard work and pain-staking determination to implement and perfect.
I took 36 hours after cutting the AUDUSD trades at a loss to:


As I have said in the past, I want to be an open, willing, and honest fund manager.  I hate those PM's and FM's who parse words.  So please be encouraged that I am firmly committed to reaching new equity highs using the same strategy that I have developed, while keeping an eye on being a positive force in the world of risk, obstacles, and brokenness.
If you would like to private message me, I will respond within 48 hours on Donna Forex, MQL5, SimpleTrader, and email --- otbhk01@gmail.com
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on March 20, 2018, 02:43:28 PM
It sounds like you are dealing with the most important part of trading - your emotion and mind. It looked like it was smart to cut losses on audusd, as it had steam roller momentum last week.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 21, 2018, 09:19:51 PM
It sounds like you are dealing with the most important part of trading - your emotion and mind. It looked like it was smart to cut losses on audusd, as it had steam roller momentum last week.

Yes for sure.  I am glad I abided by my boundaries which keep us near enough to equity highs that we can recover within 4 to 6 weeks conservatively speaking.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 30, 2018, 05:05:40 PM
MARCH 2018 UPDATE
Outside the Box followers,

Performance --
We hit new equity highs early in the month (4% above our highest levels), having completed the 7th recovery from Drawdown in the 14 months of this system/strategy, giving evidence that OTB strategy is profitable and is resilient after drawdown. Subscribers or investors who left during a previous drawdown certainly see that they could have recovered their losses if they had adhered to a 6 to 12 month assessment of returns.
My manual trading talent and discretionary strategy is being recognized by "Emerging Trader" websites such as FundSeeder (Ranked Top 5 in 4 categories -- Sharpe Ratio, Sortino Ratio, Gain-to-Pain Ratio, and Annualised Return) and PsyQuation (Rank #6). Alternative Investment managers recognise OTB strategy as an "outlier".
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437)
https://fundseeder.com/leaderboard/leaderboard/gpr_ver/1 (https://fundseeder.com/leaderboard/leaderboard/gpr_ver/1)
https://psyquation.com/ #!/home/leaderboard (https://psyquation.com/ #!/home/leaderboard)
The Commodity dollar longs did not revert to mean on the 1H uptrend and timeframe, but instead the 4H and daily timeframes exerted their force within the macro downtrend that began in 2013 and 2014. Month end and Quarter 1 end price action turned significantly USD bullish, taken together with sour Equity market in March, which is the worst month on average for stocks given Quarter 1 revisions to US Inflation Outlook. This resulted in a drawdown to end the month, now sitting approximately 8% from High Water Mark.

Risk Management --
Given the average daily/monthly returns the OTB system generates, this type of setback is undesirable (given that we just made new equity highs) but acceptable and within the risk management expectations for this strategy. According to trade history, the drawdowns have been progressively reduced so that Fund clients and Trade Copying clients are satisfied with the pace and consistency of appreciation.
I am working on Maximum Adverse Excursion / Maximum Favorable Excursion metrics and where and when is best to cut losers and when to wait on appreciation of specific winners with an investment professional out of London.

Goals --

Markets thinning out now for Easter weekend.
April on average is best month for anti-dollar currencies and thus all timeframes for USD appreciation should be completed already or very soon. Starting Easter Monday week I will be 100% focused on taking good confirmed entries at a measured risk so that we can reclaim Equity Highs again in 3 to 6 weeks.
Happy Easter to all, and pray your celebrations are happy and peaceful.
Will respond to queries and comments within 48 hours. Thank you for your vote of confidence as we prove that FX investing is profitable within patience, diligence, and continued improvement.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: vontogr on April 04, 2018, 03:42:39 PM
This is from one of our more recent new members, outsidethebox, who has a signal service on Signal Start, MQL5 and SimpleTrader:

http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-hk/22160
  • MQL5 (https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/305461)
  • SimpleTrader (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box-HK.html)

If you have questions for him, leave them here, or share your experiences using his service.

(old locked topic over here: https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19706 )

Info from outsidethebox:

Mount Cook Financial PAMM fund.... http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70 (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70)
  • http://mtcookfinancial.com/pam-hybrid-2-0-presentation/ (http://mtcookfinancial.com/pam-hybrid-2-0-presentation/)
    Password: hybridvid
    Cutting edge money manager software that Mt Cook Financial has developed
    accounts@mtcookfinancial.com
    https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347)

HotForex PAMM: https://www.hotforex.com/hf/en/landing-pages/pamm-account.html?refid=305098/ (https://www.hotforex.com/hf/en/landing-pages/pamm-account.html?refid=305098/)
  • https://my.hotforex.com/en/pamm/showDetail.html?managerID=1141086 (https://my.hotforex.com/en/pamm/showDetail.html?managerID=1141086)
    ps@hotforex.com
    https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172) 
  • If you have questions, either message me here or at:
    otbhk01@gmail.com

Please understand there are advantages, disadvantages, and promotional offers to seize in each method of investing in my overall trade system.  Whether it be with short term Trade Copying returns or with longer term investment method of PAMM fund that I will focus an increasing percentage of my day on as I grow, prove my consistency, and as I learn.
I am rolling out a clear plan that I am communicating to all my subscribers and investors, that involves gradually increasing the price of my signal (dependent upon continued consistent returns), closing my signal in November to new subscribers, and then making it clear that I suggest most move over to SimpleTrader trade copying subscription or to my 2 (soon to be 3) PAMM funds at Mount Cook or HotForex.

Without any offense, and without deeper analyses as well.
the risk reward ratio measured in monthly profit vs. max risk is just POOR
Monthly: 0.81%
Drawdown: 25.15%

In other words you would need almost 3 years to recover loss of 25% of the account with 0.8% monthly gain.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 04, 2018, 04:37:35 PM
Hi @vontogr

No offense taken.  Always glad to learn and drill down into the real nuts and bolts of my stats and strategy.
Not sure where you get those stats.  I see a much higher average monthly gain. 
I think you're talking risk to reward ratio, but not actually real returns, but I could be mistaken.
I have had 20% drawdowns already in this first 14 months, and it took me approx 2 months to recover and one of intra-day drawdown of 30% which took me 5 months to recover from.

Please explain what and where you find "reward ratio measured in monthly profit"?
And remember you are taking max risk that is not a monthly measure.  If you compare equivalent timeframes of risk and return, my strategy is actually ranked very highly on PsyQuation and FundSeeder.  All the below risk/gain metrics are used by quants and risk analysts in portfolio and asset management circles.  These stats put my strategy in the above average to great category when you find the standards that Portfolio Managers are judged by.

Pain to Gain ratio:  1.24
Calmar ratio:  5.12
Sharpe ratio:  4.35
Sortino ratio:  5.29
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: vontogr on April 05, 2018, 07:23:25 AM
Hi @vontogr

No offense taken.  Always glad to learn and drill down into the real nuts and bolts of my stats and strategy.
Not sure where you get those stats.  I see a much higher average monthly gain. 
I think you're talking risk to reward ratio, but not actually real returns, but I could be mistaken.
I have had 20% drawdowns already in this first 14 months, and it took me approx 2 months to recover and one of intra-day drawdown of 30% which took me 5 months to recover from.

Please explain what and where you find "reward ratio measured in monthly profit"?
And remember you are taking max risk that is not a monthly measure.  If you compare equivalent timeframes of risk and return, my strategy is actually ranked very highly on PsyQuation and FundSeeder.  All the below risk/gain metrics are used by quants and risk analysts in portfolio and asset management circles.  These stats put my strategy in the above average to great category when you find the standards that Portfolio Managers are judged by.

Pain to Gain ratio:  1.24
Calmar ratio:  5.12
Sharpe ratio:  4.35
Sortino ratio:  5.29

I have simply copied the data from MFB
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 11, 2018, 12:44:00 AM
Okay, at this point I think I have to step away from this signal. The sharp, severe losses combined with the monthly signal fee mean that it will take far too long to recover - even with a perfect trading record. It looked like this system was doing great last year, but ever since I joined it seems like the market has changed and this is struggling to figure it out. I'm not sure why the losses are so deep and drastic; but when this system loses, it loses big. A 20% swing in less than a month is tough to swallow... especially when it seems like the system can't generate enough positive momentum before the inevitable drop off the cliff. I a little tempted to turn down the risk and keep going to see if things can be salvaged, but I can't justify continuing to pay a monthly fee while we are probably going to be bouncing up and down underwater for a while. I'm looking at maybe 6 months minimum to get back to where we were?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 13, 2018, 12:42:07 PM
Hello @5ninefish and other followers

I certainly understand your point of view.
My strategy has been struggling as of late, but this has happened in the past, and I have shown a consistent ability to recover from drawdowns both smaller and larger than the current one.
For my strategy the higher timeframes with their relevant indicators are more important than the lower indicators, and therefore I must choose entry levels that suit the multiple timeframes, momentum, and the current market sentiment and fundamental factors that do seem to be switching in the past month to a trending anti-dollar dynamic.  This is where I need to adjust.  And there have been other occasions when I have had to make this adjustment.

I want to say that I am heartily committed to preserving capital at the moment and to reclaiming equity highs within 3 to 4 months.
The losses have come at a very unfortunate time, since I had made new equity highs in March.  I feel this more than anyone.
I always say that it is the worst time to divest or unsubscribe right at the bottom of a drawdown, even though I know that decision and the costs of the signal and preserving your capital lie with you.

I also have private investors, fund clients, and subscribers that I am serving here, so I am committed to the task at hand as I have been for 14 months now.
I have always been responsive to comments and questions, explain where the strategy has failed, and then worked hard to continue trading even though people are disappointed at times and have a variety of comments (sometimes not very constructive) that they would like me to answer.

I'm sure you know too that these losses, albeit unsavory, have still fallen within the description of my strategy and risk management that I have clearly communicated on all sites and on all community boards and forums.
Please give me an opportunity to show you that this strategy will recover, and if you do decide to step away, please stay in touch so that you can re-assess at a later time.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 18, 2018, 09:40:05 AM
Not really good performance lately.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 23, 2018, 05:18:40 PM
Not really good performance lately.

The FX markets, if traded properly with patience and resilience, can be mastered over longer time periods with tested and strict money management.  As with all longer trading track records, an investor/follower has to look at the performance at each point along the whole journey to get a good idea about what to expect going forward, as long as the strategy has not been altered significantly, and also that the trader (if trading manually) has not had significant changes in his environment/life.

This at least is partially true with me, that I perform far far better when I am in a highly controlled environment, where precision and focus are supported and protected.  By now you can see that we have begun well on our current recovery from drawdown, well off the recent lows in equity.
I am working as smartly and diligently as I possibly can to hit the right entry levels with the right lot size allocations anchored to assessments of probability.

I am willing to address any comments or questions you may have.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 23, 2018, 05:35:08 PM
Okay, at this point I think I have to step away from this signal. The sharp, severe losses combined with the monthly signal fee mean that it will take far too long to recover - even with a perfect trading record. It looked like this system was doing great last year, but ever since I joined it seems like the market has changed and this is struggling to figure it out. I'm not sure why the losses are so deep and drastic; but when this system loses, it loses big. A 20% swing in less than a month is tough to swallow... especially when it seems like the system can't generate enough positive momentum before the inevitable drop off the cliff. I a little tempted to turn down the risk and keep going to see if things can be salvaged, but I can't justify continuing to pay a monthly fee while we are probably going to be bouncing up and down underwater for a while. I'm looking at maybe 6 months minimum to get back to where we were?

And by the way, I usually recommend (with this system and track record) that risk is "turned up" not down, at the low point in a drawdown, albeit ever so slightly.  You can see that if....
1- losses occur at 1x risk (between 5 and 10% drawdown risk can be returned to 1x risk.....until drawdown is over 10% and has stabilised..... go to #3)
2- risk is turned down to 0.8 or 0.7 every time an investor takes some profit off the table at High Water Marks
3- and risk is turned up to 1.2 or 1.3 at or near the Low Point of Drawdowns of over 10%

.... then profits and returns would be improved/made less volatile
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 27, 2018, 07:32:59 AM
Okay, at this point I think I have to step away from this signal. The sharp, severe losses combined with the monthly signal fee mean that it will take far too long to recover - even with a perfect trading record. It looked like this system was doing great last year, but ever since I joined it seems like the market has changed and this is struggling to figure it out. I'm not sure why the losses are so deep and drastic; but when this system loses, it loses big. A 20% swing in less than a month is tough to swallow... especially when it seems like the system can't generate enough positive momentum before the inevitable drop off the cliff. I a little tempted to turn down the risk and keep going to see if things can be salvaged, but I can't justify continuing to pay a monthly fee while we are probably going to be bouncing up and down underwater for a while. I'm looking at maybe 6 months minimum to get back to where we were?

And by the way, I usually recommend (with this system and track record) that risk is "turned up" not down, at the low point in a drawdown, albeit ever so slightly.  You can see that if....
1- losses occur at 1x risk (between 5 and 10% drawdown risk can be returned to 1x risk.....until drawdown is over 10% and has stabilised..... go to #3)
2- risk is turned down to 0.8 or 0.7 every time an investor takes some profit off the table at High Water Marks
3- and risk is turned up to 1.2 or 1.3 at or near the Low Point of Drawdowns of over 10%

.... then profits and returns would be improved/made less volatile

Haha... well, I forgot to turn off the automatic payment, so I'm along for the ride still. Looks like a good thing too as we seem to be climbing back up. I'll try this strategy of turning up the risk below 10% drawdown and turning it back down when it returns to the high water mark. Looking back historically, it makes a lot of sense. Onward and upward!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on May 04, 2018, 10:16:15 PM
New HIGHER LOW in place in equity curve. 
(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1525464817ZEEKXG.JPG)

This system can recover losses quite quickly if you look at the previous 7 drawdown periods.  Monthly returns VS max drawdown is what you must look at, in addition to my discussion below, which talks about how Andrew Lockwood educates Retail Investors / Signal Copiers to manage their trade copying investments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNry36PAypE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNry36PAypE)

I thought this video by Andrew Lockwood of ForexSignals is worth emphasizing, because he mentions some very important DO's and DONT's with making money with Forex Signal / Trade Copying. The biggest reminder and key issue is that Copiers must keep engaged, participate in the management of risk along the way (especially during drawdowns), and they must understand that there are down times for every strategy and also every trader.
He reiterates this on the video, and I sure wish retail investors kept up their end of the bargain, stopped blatantly blaming a trader, and accepted their part of the responsibility.
Trust in Signal Services comes from ...... shouldering this responsibility.... analysis and getting to know a trading system / trader. What's behind the scenes with a strategy, so when the bad times come, you can ride out the drawdown period and recover losses without giving up too soon. I think SC performance was good, but the strategy is clearly damaged now and not performing. FXStat and FXBlue do a great job of breaking down and analyzing a system's performance in many different perspectives:
https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720 (https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720)
https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk (https://www.fxblue.com/users/outsidetheboxhk)

How much of equity / profits need to disappear before investors / providers stop trading or investing in a certain system?
How does it perform in volatile periods?
What is the maximum acceptable drawdown?
What would you expect the maximum number of consecutive gainers / losers to be given the past performance?
What is the point when most losing trades have not recovered from a drawdown? Maximum Adverse Excursion (MAE/MFE)?


Just emotionally, flippantly throwing out a signal service after 5 losing trades or a 2 month losing streak might be the worst thing to do.
And I actually find this happens more often than not. People getting jumpy after a 10 or 15% drawdown, and then at least with systems that can produce more significant gains in good times, the recovery will be lost if you divest.
This, of course, goes both ways, so sometimes it's important to divest at the right time when you think a strategy is starting to fail terminally.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on May 31, 2018, 08:40:55 PM
Month of May in the books!

Outside the Box hit 13.06% for May.

Last High Water Mark was 1st of March at 1372% so at 1283% right now, we are only 6.5% below High Water Mark.
(drawdown measurement is usually from intra-month high equity mark)
12 of 16 months profitable implementing scalping strategy.

I normally trade about 7 or 8 lots per month on a balance of around $4300, but I hope to increase this volume in the months to come. I continue to advise subscribers to try to stay invested during drawdown, because this strategy continues to hit new highs and it's the worst when you miss the recoveries. For more breakdown of stats, see links below:

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437  (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437)
http://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720 (http://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 12, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
FYI.... 21% so far this month on the new strategy for a higher risk PAMM....
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172)
https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1141086 (https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1141086) (see details here)


and....61%% so far this month on a High Return Trade Copying Account also at HotForex...
shows you that I can still punch out those returns like last year....would like to register this signal here at SimpleTrader once I increase balance to $3000
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/hfcopy-provider-hotforex/2450316 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/hfcopy-provider-hotforex/2450316)
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/438289 (https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/438289)
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972 (http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972)

trade copying and PAMM funds kickin....and Master Account chugging to new equity highs... 1% away from New High Water Mark.... and 5% from Equity Highs
independently verified stats here: http://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720 (http://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/Outside-the-Box---Master-Account-84720)

Outside the Box low risk signal: https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/7992/Outside-the-Box.html) (5.24 % already in June -- Summer Specials for 3- and 6-month subscription)

Outside the Box low risk PAMM: https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-pamm/2206347 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-pamm/2206347) (5.74% in June)
http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70 (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on June 29, 2018, 09:17:01 PM
Month of June
Outside the Box HK scalping system has been on fire!
New High Water Mark!
June profits -- 14.4%
Growth- to - Max Drawdown Ratio -- 33.6


Only 4 other systems offering trade copying at SimpleTrader have a higher key value ratio! Ask any trader. This is normally how you determine value of a trading system - -Return-to-Drawdown Score-- along with Age of Track Record.

I have two new systems for which I will give you the track records here. I put $500 towards the higher risk and $1000 towards the medium risk, as then most of my equity is invested in the low risk strategy and yet I can test my skill in the more active trading too. If you are interested in these new systems, contact me via comment or private msg.

MEDIUM RISK -- UP 47% this month
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172)
https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/performance.html (https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/performance.html) -- #88 ranking on the list of PAMM managers

HIGH RISK -- UP 164% this month
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972
https://copy.hotforex.com/sv/en/strategy-list.html  -- #7 ranking on the list


(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1530297918hvbrwg.JPG)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on July 09, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Alright, I'm in for the high risk. You're killing it on the standard signal. Looking forward to see what you can do with this one!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 09, 2018, 11:50:12 PM
Hey awesome, neato, cool.
I've added 36.8% already this month.  wow.
So 202% in 4 months.  not bad.  my system (and my brain and heart) have been firing on all cylinders for sure.  Hitting running speed now.
Thanks for your vote of confidence.  Let's get em.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: IFFTrader on July 10, 2018, 06:42:46 AM
I too join the signal yesterday and manage to ride on the 3 GU profitable trades. I am joining OTBHK since fxcharlie stop his signal and was looking for alternative. I read through the thread here and saw all the ups and downs. I have to say the trader courage to still be around and show profits is commendable.I hope the trader continue to communicate with followers regardless HWM or DD period.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on July 10, 2018, 07:25:59 AM
I signup for the signal last month in MQL5 and at the same time in hotforex. I moved the balance from hotforex to my account and now only using the MQL5 signal.

Yesterday GU trades were great. I was a little bit afraid because when the trades are outside the normal pairs of what otb usually trades then the risk are very high.

Let us see how it goes the next few months.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 10, 2018, 01:03:45 PM
Thanks guys for your comments and subscriptions.
I am still trading the same strategy, and yet I have learned many more lessons by now.  This is my sole source of income so it is very important that I execute my plans with both courage and caution.  Yesterday the GU weakness was what I was expecting given the general political uncertainty and technical time for USD to gain some value back.
I always try to keep up with all the messaging at the same time as trading 8 accounts.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: IFFTrader on July 11, 2018, 06:29:36 AM
How do you manage eight accounts? Do you do local copy the signal or each account is different strategy?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 11, 2018, 01:44:46 PM
At times, depending on the market sentiment, technicals, and environment, I'll turn the trade copying on, and let the master account allocate different risks (low, medium, and high) to each of the 8 accounts.  This also depends on strategies in the individual accounts, let's say low drawdown account, trailing stop account, etc.

But then on other days I only trade the higher risk accounts, while I am waiting on better setups for the Funds that I manage or vice versa.  It is a mental challenge, but I've been doing it a while now.

Just got AxiSelect Incubation this month.
And also put my strategy up on Darwinex exchange:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on July 20, 2018, 08:31:59 PM
In the current week I can see that there are no trades on the signal account other than the first trades on the week which some are carried away from last week.

But I can see that there are 2 accounts which have some open trades but was not updated from yesterday.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-darwinex-fund/2571506

Normally at least each day there will be some trades and maximum one day break.

Is it possible that too many accounts make it more harder to provide trades for normal risk accounts?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 21, 2018, 06:08:01 PM
In the current week I can see that there are no trades on the signal account other than the first trades on the week which some are carried away from last week.

But I can see that there are 2 accounts which have some open trades but was not updated from yesterday.
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-darwinex-fund/2571506

Normally at least each day there will be some trades and maximum one day break.

Is it possible that too many accounts make it more harder to provide trades for normal risk accounts?


Thanks for your question.
As you probably know, there is no direct relationship between increased Frequency of trades AND positive profit.
As a trader I look for confirmations given the strategy that I adhere to, and once I get confirmation of a trade setup then I must weigh other factors that will influence my success:  returns in the current month, time of the week, upcoming uncertainty / data releases, other upcoming events, market sentiment / risks, and also the goals I have set for each strategy.
In this case, I have 8.7% gain in July, and I did not receive confirmation during the latter part of the week, so I exercised patience and did not enter new trades before the end of the week.
Many times I have seen this patience pay off when I have been too hasty.  I guard the current gains of the month and the new equity high.  Next week I will continue doing the same thing, full time, as usual.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on July 21, 2018, 08:01:37 PM
I understand that it is not necessary to trade if the trade conditions are not exist. However my observation was about the correlation between no trade and the condition of other accounts you are managing.

So let me rephrase my question:
If the trade condition/setup is exist however the other accounts you are managing are in drawdown will you trade in the other accounts or you will wait for the accounts in drawdown to exit drawdown first before trading? I understand that you are entering the same trades in your low risk and high risk accounts but that is not always the other way which I understand.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 22, 2018, 08:30:06 PM
I understand that it is not necessary to trade if the trade conditions are not exist. However my observation was about the correlation between no trade and the condition of other accounts you are managing.

So let me rephrase my question:
If the trade condition/setup is exist however the other accounts you are managing are in drawdown will you trade in the other accounts or you will wait for the accounts in drawdown to exit drawdown first before trading? I understand that you are entering the same trades in your low risk and high risk accounts but that is not always the other way which I understand.


When I enter a trade on the Low Risk Master Account, it will always get copied to the High Risk Account.
This does not work vice versa.
If I enter trades on the other alternative strategies - the ones other than the Master account -- these will not get copied into the Master Outside the Box HK signal account.

Also, there is no relationship between periods of drawdown and when I will open new positions on the Master Account.  This is not a factor.  The more important factors are the other ones I mentioned, including uncertainty in the market and the approaching weekend risk.  I do not add risk before a weekend that could carry risk.
I hope that answers your question.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on July 23, 2018, 03:17:29 AM
I understand that it is not necessary to trade if the trade conditions are not exist. However my observation was about the correlation between no trade and the condition of other accounts you are managing.

So let me rephrase my question:
If the trade condition/setup is exist however the other accounts you are managing are in drawdown will you trade in the other accounts or you will wait for the accounts in drawdown to exit drawdown first before trading? I understand that you are entering the same trades in your low risk and high risk accounts but that is not always the other way which I understand.


When I enter a trade on the Low Risk Master Account, it will always get copied to the High Risk Account.
This does not work vice versa.
If I enter trades on the other alternative strategies - the ones other than the Master account -- these will not get copied into the Master Outside the Box HK signal account.

Also, there is no relationship between periods of drawdown and when I will open new positions on the Master Account.  This is not a factor.  The more important factors are the other ones I mentioned, including uncertainty in the market and the approaching weekend risk.  I do not add risk before a weekend that could carry risk.
I hope that answers your question.

Thanks, All clear now.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 06, 2018, 08:59:21 PM
Hello Investors/Followers!
Update for July 2018:


Flagship signal ...... 11.94% monthly gain
https://goo.gl/7Y6J2S  (https://goo.gl/7Y6J2S) --- (SimpleTrader link)
Medium Risk PAMM ..... 28.02% monthly gain
https://goo.gl/ZHk5gS  (https://goo.gl/ZHk5gS)
High Risk signal ....... 77.41% monthly gain
https://goo.gl/kifEXZ  (https://goo.gl/kifEXZ)

Very good outcome and new Equity High water mark yet again.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: donnaforex on August 22, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Can you please stop with all the promotions and marketing-speak, it's not allowed here and i will ban you if it continues. I hadn't been reading the topic and was shocked to see it. I'm going to go through and delete it all, but please do not post any more. Information only please.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on August 23, 2018, 03:47:28 AM
Hi Donna,

From the very beginning when you introduced me to the Forum as Trade Copy Strategy Provider and Fund Manager, I honestly thought that meant I could provide updates to my subscribers and clients using this Forum, so I am certainly sorry if I have done something I should not be doing.  No other complaints have been made, as my audience seems to be happy.  I also had not received any notifications from you about anything I have been posting for the past 14 months, so I assumed everything was peachy clean!

Reporting on trading returns in each of my three strategies (both trade copying and PAMM fund) and changes to what I am offering to clients is ok to post here right?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: donnaforex on August 24, 2018, 12:36:28 PM
I haven't deleted the updates about your performance. The problem is the big "SALE NOW ON, GET IT WHILE YOU CAN" style posts accompanied with banner images, etc.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 02, 2018, 07:44:11 PM
5.5% for August
38.2% for 2018 year

See STATS HERE (https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/OUTSIDE-THE-BOX----MASTER-ACCOUNT-84720)

New Equity Highs.
Over 1700% in 19 months.

Onward and upward. Finished the month flat. Ready for exciting autumn months of certain volatility.
Will be looking for risk aversion markets in Sept and Oct.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on September 28, 2018, 05:17:58 AM
So I was messing around with a few settings on my High Risk signal account and accidentally had the risk set to 2x over the last week. I got extremely lucky that the numbers went in my favor, and I've more than doubled my initial investment in a couple of months. Needless to say, I've withdrawn my initial capital plus a little extra and turned the risk down to normal levels. I understand that this is a high risk signal with the potential for drastic drawdowns, but from here on out I'm playing with house money. I just plan on letting it roll, and we'll see where it ends up. Congrats on a great week of trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 28, 2018, 07:59:52 AM
So I was messing around with a few settings on my High Risk signal account and accidentally had the risk set to 2x over the last week. I got extremely lucky that the numbers went in my favor, and I've more than doubled my initial investment in a couple of months. Needless to say, I've withdrawn my initial capital plus a little extra and turned the risk down to normal levels. I understand that this is a high risk signal with the potential for drastic drawdowns, but from here on out I'm playing with house money. I just plan on letting it roll, and we'll see where it ends up. Congrats on a great week of trading.

Awesome.  I am very happy for you.
Obviously be careful with the Risk Multipliers, as I keep within my pre-determined risk boundaries.
More of the same!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: IFFTrader on September 28, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
Has the risk multiplier been discussed before? What is the recommendation for normal and high risk?

So far been happy with this signal.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 28, 2018, 12:31:33 PM
Has the risk multiplier been discussed before? What is the recommendation for normal and high risk?

So far been happy with this signal.

I love brief, peppy notes.
Risk multiplier is offered on some platforms at time of set up.  If you didn't see it on your platform then it might not be offered.  That is why I offer strategies for 1x, 2x, and 4x risk, that way you can rely on me to manage risk and capture the return you want. 
low risk - 5 to 10% monthly target
medium risk - 20 to 30% monthly target
high risk - 30 to 50% monthly target
as you can see it's not exactly proportional to risk because I only enter trades if the market presents highest probability opportunities to exploit.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: IFFTrader on September 28, 2018, 01:04:54 PM
I use forex signals. What is the risk level of the master account?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 28, 2018, 01:38:05 PM
I use forex signals. What is the risk level of the master account?

Max Drawdown -- 20%
Max Open Exposure -- 6 positions totaling no more than 1 lot per $10,000 equity
Usually begin with 1/4 of max basket position and monitor how price action responds/diverges/how rapidly, then make further scale in positions
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on September 30, 2018, 06:52:52 AM
5.5% for August
38.2% for 2018 year

See STATS HERE (https://www.fxstat.com/en/performances/view/OUTSIDE-THE-BOX----MASTER-ACCOUNT-84720)

New Equity Highs.
Over 1700% in 19 months.

Onward and upward. Finished the month flat. Ready for exciting autumn months of certain volatility.
Will be looking for risk aversion markets in Sept and Oct.

September 2018 month totals....
10.33% for the month
73.4% for the last 12 months


September saw a wild ride and new allocations into our fund.
My strategy has retained its edge long enough for our capital to compound amazingly well.
This is when exponential benefits start to kick in quite quickly for those who have invested early on with a good strategy and good trader.

(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1538286401DdQ6tO.JPG)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: dasher1980 on September 30, 2018, 05:30:37 PM
Hi, can you pls let us know what your current open trades are if any?

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on September 30, 2018, 05:48:53 PM
In my account which is following the original signal (low risk) there are no open trades.

Hi, can you pls let us know what your current open trades are if any?

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 30, 2018, 11:53:50 PM
In my account which is following the original signal (low risk) there are no open trades.

Hi, can you pls let us know what your current open trades are if any?

Thanks

Hello, Alaali.

Which of the four signal providers, sanctioned by Outsidethebox, are you using?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 01, 2018, 01:01:12 AM
Hi, can you pls let us know what your current open trades are if any?

Thanks


Hi all,
I thankfully closed all trades at week's end and month's end, cautious and prudent.
It is smart to start a new month and new quarter with no positions, analyze, and then jump in slowly, especially after such a great run of success.  I am determined to stay on top and at equity highs.
I'm sure you'll appreciate this discipline at the end of October.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on October 01, 2018, 04:41:12 AM
In my account which is following the original signal (low risk) there are no open trades.

Hi, can you pls let us know what your current open trades are if any?

Thanks

Hello, Alaali.

Which of the four signal providers, sanctioned by Outsidethebox, are you using?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

MQL5
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Xavier cha on October 02, 2018, 11:03:28 PM
I m using his pamm with Mtcook since 3 weeks. Won 4%. Seems promising if Mtcook is not a scam.
The guy respond fast and precisly to any question. Helpfull for noob.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 09, 2018, 02:58:23 PM
Hello, Outside the Box,

Could you please elaborate a little about your account  Outside the Box-

"AxiSelect Master Real (USD), AxiTrader, Technical, Manual, 1:400 , MetaTrader 4 "; I must be seeing things, no losses?

Is this account available as a copy signal?


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 09, 2018, 03:38:15 PM
Hello, Outside the Box,

Could you please elaborate a little about your account  Outside the Box-

"AxiSelect Master Real (USD), AxiTrader, Technical, Manual, 1:400 , MetaTrader 4 "; I must be seeing things, no losses?

Is this account available as a copy signal?


Regards,
HumbleTrader


I would like to take a page out of your book.
As I know to be the best you have to be humble.


The system you are referring to is this:  https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-axiselect-master/2590238 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-axiselect-master/2590238)

This is what's called an Emerging Fund Manager Allocation Incubation program.
I am in Phase 2 of 3 - the accelerator phase.  Next month I should be in the last phase of 3, so that I can be approved as a professional asset manager with PsyQuation/AxiSelect.
Here is their leaderboard:  https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard (https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard)
I think I'm ranked #24 on the main leaderboard
And in the AxiSelect Incubation program, just click on "Accelerator" in the top right and you'll see my strategy in #1 spot of Phase 2 of 3.  You can inquire re investment into this strategy once I reach the Pro Phase / Phase 3 of 3.


I have "alternative strategies" cooking on the back burner, that I'm bringing to the market in the next month.  SimpleTrader, MQL5 and SignalStart will run them.

OTB Zero Spread Scalping:  https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-zero-spread-scalping/2575384 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-zero-spread-scalping/2575384)

OTB High Return USD:  https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-high-return-usd/2584044 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-high-return-usd/2584044)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on October 09, 2018, 09:35:39 PM
If that's similar to what I'm subscribing to, then that looks pretty accurate. Here's a screenshot of my OTB signal account from June 1 to current date. Outsidethebox on a bit of a roll. My OTB high risk signal account is doing even better.


Hello, Outside the Box,

Could you please elaborate a little about your account  Outside the Box-

"AxiSelect Master Real (USD), AxiTrader, Technical, Manual, 1:400 , MetaTrader 4 "; I must be seeing things, no losses?

Is this account available as a copy signal?


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 09, 2018, 10:27:15 PM
If that's similar to what I'm subscribing to, then that looks pretty accurate. Here's a screenshot of my OTB signal account from June 1 to current date. Outsidethebox on a bit of a roll. My OTB high risk signal account is doing even better.


Hello, Outside the Box,

Could you please elaborate a little about your account  Outside the Box-

"AxiSelect Master Real (USD), AxiTrader, Technical, Manual, 1:400 , MetaTrader 4 "; I must be seeing things, no losses?

Is this account available as a copy signal?


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Can you please be more specific,  which signal are you using ( link ).?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: dasher1980 on October 10, 2018, 10:03:39 PM
😜 looks like I joined another signal which is on track to blowup my account. Getting to almost 100% loss in 5 days, thats a record for me!

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on October 11, 2018, 12:08:06 AM
😜 looks like I joined another signal which is on track to blowup my account. Getting to almost 100% loss in 5 days, thats a record for me!

ha what, all his masters seem to be chugging along quite well.

or did you make 100% profit running risk times 50 :)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petermatt on October 11, 2018, 01:32:08 AM
😜 looks like I joined another signal which is on track to blowup my account. Getting to almost 100% loss in 5 days, thats a record for me!

ha what, all his masters seem to be chugging along quite well.

or did you make 100% profit running risk times 50 :)

Not quite - His HFCopy Provider in myfxbook appears to have quite a heavy drawdown ATM.

Pete
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on October 11, 2018, 03:45:52 AM

thx pete, just seen that.

that account is running red hot, i mean high high risk, so a wipeout can happen easily at one time.

but the master and i think all others are doing just fine.

i always been advocating sensible risk for that particular reason. better go slow and steady and see trading as long term.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on October 11, 2018, 08:34:08 AM
Here's the OTB standard signal I've been following since last fall. I think this one follows the master account.
https://www.simpletrader.net/signals.php?do=view&id=7992

And here's the high risk signal I have running on a separate, smaller account. I've already made my original balance back in profit with this one and withdrawn it. Now I'm just gonna let it run and see where it ends up.
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/438289


If that's similar to what I'm subscribing to, then that looks pretty accurate. Here's a screenshot of my OTB signal account from June 1 to current date. Outsidethebox on a bit of a roll. My OTB high risk signal account is doing even better.


Hello, Outside the Box,

Could you please elaborate a little about your account  Outside the Box-

"AxiSelect Master Real (USD), AxiTrader, Technical, Manual, 1:400 , MetaTrader 4 "; I must be seeing things, no losses?

Is this account available as a copy signal?


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Can you please be more specific,  which signal are you using ( link ).?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 11, 2018, 09:16:11 AM
😜 looks like I joined another signal which is on track to blowup my account. Getting to almost 100% loss in 5 days, thats a record for me!

Drawdown is currently at 28%.

This is a high risk and high return account that does very well for most of the history and these swings are part and parcel of this system.
Most subscribers have done well and withdrawn profits to recover their original equity investment, and I also advise people to only invest small amounts that they can afford to lose the same way I did in the beginning of this account/system in March 2018, then risk profits for the remainder of the investment.

I have 8 accounts / systems and they all are performing well, but each is different. Nothing ventured, nothing gained is how I approach these types of alternative higher risk strategies. They will pay you if you can stomach the swings. I recovered from two other over 50% drawdowns already and I had a few subscribers write to me and I assured them and advised them how to approach it.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on October 11, 2018, 04:12:50 PM
it looks fine to me if you are in the lower risk one. People just need to know their drawdown comfort level. Basically don't join the high risk one if you aren't prepared to go through periods of drawdown. Pretty simple. L

ike anything just match you risk level to your comfort because we all know you can't get massive risks and not increase drawdown risk. People who still believe that these fairy tales exist of high return and low risk probably still believe in the easter bunny, santa claus etc...

what i do when i trade with anything now. I mentally rehearse what it will feel like to hit the expected drawdown.. If i cringe, then I know it is to high. If I don't i am probably ok. It is worth doing.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: dasher1980 on October 11, 2018, 04:43:11 PM
Outsidethebox, it looks already a lot better than yesterday evening.

Also agree with you, am running this one at high risk and are certainly prepare to lose all. Thats all part of the FX game and in particular if you run it at too high risk.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 16, 2018, 12:34:47 AM
To celebrate our most recent recovery on the high risk account....

A rare white buffalo has entered the arena.
Outside the Box High Risk @ SimpleTrader now.


A day-trading version of my Flagship lower risk signal.
It copies all master account trades at 4x risk and then I add some other scalping trades that arise while other "core" trades are simmering away.
I started with $500 and equity has grown steadily over 6 months to $4800.

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html)

(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1539644375hNtwvh.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 17, 2018, 01:26:56 AM
To celebrate our most recent recovery on the high risk account....

A rare white buffalo has entered the arena.
Outside the Box High Risk @ SimpleTrader now.


A day-trading version of my Flagship lower risk signal.
It copies all master account trades at 4x risk and then I add some other scalping trades that arise while other "core" trades are simmering away.
I started with $500 and equity has grown steadily over 6 months to $4800.

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html)

(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1539644375hNtwvh.jpg)

Any possibility of this being offered at SignalStart and what is the link?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 17, 2018, 02:33:46 AM
To celebrate our most recent recovery on the high risk account....

A rare white buffalo has entered the arena.
Outside the Box High Risk @ SimpleTrader now.


A day-trading version of my Flagship lower risk signal.
It copies all master account trades at 4x risk and then I add some other scalping trades that arise while other "core" trades are simmering away.
I started with $500 and equity has grown steadily over 6 months to $4800.

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html)

(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1539644375hNtwvh.jpg)

Any possibility of this being offered at SignalStart and what is the link?

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Yes has been there a while now.  Ranked #10 currently.
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972 (http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: rsmereka on October 17, 2018, 03:10:26 PM
Hi OTBH,

Thanks for the info.

I am looking at SignalStart now and your high return is now #9.

Congrats!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 29, 2018, 11:03:34 PM
To celebrate our most recent recovery on the high risk account....

A rare white buffalo has entered the arena.
Outside the Box High Risk @ SimpleTrader now.


A day-trading version of my Flagship lower risk signal.
It copies all master account trades at 4x risk and then I add some other scalping trades that arise while other "core" trades are simmering away.
I started with $500 and equity has grown steadily over 6 months to $4800.

https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10161/Outside-the-Box-High-Risk.html)

(https://www.simpletrader.net/uploads/quickPosts/1539644375hNtwvh.jpg)

Any possibility of this being offered at SignalStart and what is the link?

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Yes has been there a while now.  Ranked #10 currently.
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972 (http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972)

Hello, OTB.

From your posts, I understand that in the account you offer through Signal Start, your gain is app. 14.14%/mon. You also stated that your initial equity was 500$ of which you withdrew many time over as the account grew. But you do not offer us the same opportunity, let me explain:

With 500$ invested at 14.14%, our monthly "possible" gain would amount to app. 70.70$. As an investor, would you risk 500$ to "possibly" gain 70.70$/mon, when the cost to avail for this service (risk) would amount to 69$ for the signal as well as 25$ for the service, or 94$/mon?

May I suggest some discount for members of this forum so that they can risk 500$ now and "perhaps", over time, double their account such that they have paid for costs and be able to withdraw their initial 500$ as you originally did. Just a thought; you might make more in the long run.  :)

N.B.: If you were to charge only the 25$ for the SignalStart service and not charge anything for the signal for app. 9 months, each investor would possibly, (a) double his/her account. (b) withdraw or keep their initial 500$ and most important for you, to continue with the purchase of your signal and remain a "lifelong" client ie: WIN/WIN!


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 30, 2018, 12:38:59 AM
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972 (http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972)


Quote
Hello, OTB.

From your posts, I understand that in the account you offer through Signal Start, your gain is app. 14.14%/mon. You also stated that your initial equity was 500$ of which you withdrew many time over as the account grew. But you do not offer us the same opportunity, let me explain:

With 500$ invested at 14.14%, our monthly "possible" gain would amount to app. 70.70$. As an investor, would you risk 500$ to "possibly" gain 70.70$/mon, when the cost to avail for this service (risk) would amount to 69$ for the signal as well as 25$ for the service, or 94$/mon?

May I suggest some discount for members of this forum so that they can risk 500$ now and "perhaps", over time, double their account such that they have paid for costs and be able to withdraw their initial 500$ as you originally did. Just a thought; you might make more in the long run.  :)

N.B.: If you were to charge only the 25$ for the SignalStart service and not charge anything for the signal for app. 9 months, each investor would possibly, (a) double his/her account. (b) withdraw or keep their initial 500$ and most important for you, to continue with the purchase of your signal and remain a "lifelong" client ie: WIN/WIN!


Regards,
HumbleTrader


The stats you quoted are not accurate.
As of today the monthly return for OTB High Risk =  34.22%
This month we are currently at return for OTB High Risk = 48.12%


And as the image below shows, some months rate of return has been even higher.  That is why I have gotten a heap of interest in this high return signal.
I plan to release another type of high return signal with lower drawdown by the end of the year.
The monthly profits do help those small accounts who would like to start out at $500, which although is possible, is not ideal.
If you are unsatisfied with something for your investment please do tell me, but I also cannot do miracles.  If you need more profit, gather more capital you can risk and add to your investment.  This also is what I had to do, and it has paid off handsomely.

You can see more of the stats in the image from SignalStart below.
I am responsible to trade as well as I can, offer trade copying and fund management at a value that compensates me for what I feel it is worth, and THEN it is the responsibility of followers to make their own decisions about which system to follow (out of 6), how much to invest, and how to compound their capital over time so that the costs of trading do not hinder the Return on Investment.
It's the same thing I had to do in the beginning... be wise about lowering costs as much as possible and compound the capital I was trading with so that the costs to trade were minuscule in comparison with the profits.

(https://preview.ibb.co/cUC5sf/High-Risk-Stats-Oct-2018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e9WbyL)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 30, 2018, 02:33:52 PM
http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972 (http://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-high-return/33972)


Quote
Hello, OTB.

From your posts, I understand that in the account you offer through Signal Start, your gain is app. 14.14%/mon. You also stated that your initial equity was 500$ of which you withdrew many time over as the account grew. But you do not offer us the same opportunity, let me explain:

With 500$ invested at 14.14%, our monthly "possible" gain would amount to app. 70.70$. As an investor, would you risk 500$ to "possibly" gain 70.70$/mon, when the cost to avail for this service (risk) would amount to 69$ for the signal as well as 25$ for the service, or 94$/mon?

May I suggest some discount for members of this forum so that they can risk 500$ now and "perhaps", over time, double their account such that they have paid for costs and be able to withdraw their initial 500$ as you originally did. Just a thought; you might make more in the long run.  :)

N.B.: If you were to charge only the 25$ for the SignalStart service and not charge anything for the signal for app. 9 months, each investor would possibly, (a) double his/her account. (b) withdraw or keep their initial 500$ and most important for you, to continue with the purchase of your signal and remain a "lifelong" client ie: WIN/WIN!


Regards,
HumbleTrader


The stats you quoted are not accurate.
As of today the monthly return for OTB High Risk =  34.22%
This month we are currently at return for OTB High Risk = 48.12%


And as the image below shows, some months rate of return has been even higher.  That is why I have gotten a heap of interest in this high return signal.
I plan to release another type of high return signal with lower drawdown by the end of the year.
The monthly profits do help those small accounts who would like to start out at $500, which although is possible, is not ideal.
If you are unsatisfied with something for your investment please do tell me, but I also cannot do miracles.  If you need more profit, gather more capital you can risk and add to your investment.  This also is what I had to do, and it has paid off handsomely.

You can see more of the stats in the image from SignalStart below.
I am responsible to trade as well as I can, offer trade copying and fund management at a value that compensates me for what I feel it is worth, and THEN it is the responsibility of followers to make their own decisions about which system to follow (out of 6), how much to invest, and how to compound their capital over time so that the costs of trading do not hinder the Return on Investment.
It's the same thing I had to do in the beginning... be wise about lowering costs as much as possible and compound the capital I was trading with so that the costs to trade were minuscule in comparison with the profits.

(https://preview.ibb.co/cUC5sf/High-Risk-Stats-Oct-2018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e9WbyL)

Hello, OTB.

My apology for the error;  (14.4% vs. 34.4% monthly), I have no clue how that happened. In fact, I mention this because I am a subscriber to your signal for some weeks but I would like to encourage other members to join. However, I think it was some posts back that you spoke about the 500$ high-risk and rightfully so you advised that the account is high risk. I just wanted to find a way by which you could "sweeten" the offer by giving this forum members some form of "encouragement".

Good luck. However and I look forward to announcing to the membership when through your success, I too can demonstrate that I withdrew my 500$ and are now trading with the "bank's" money.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: compujock on October 30, 2018, 02:47:04 PM
Good luck. However and I look forward to announcing to the membership when through your success, I too can demonstrate that I withdrew my 500$ and are now trading with the "bank's" money.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
HT, can you make a myfxbook widget for your OTB account?  I would love to track it.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 30, 2018, 03:21:36 PM
Good luck. However and I look forward to announcing to the membership when through your success, I too can demonstrate that I withdrew my 500$ and are now trading with the "bank's" money.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
HT, can you make a myfxbook widget for your OTB account?  I would love to track it.

Will do Compujock.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on October 30, 2018, 03:40:42 PM
Good luck. However and I look forward to announcing to the membership when through your success, I too can demonstrate that I withdrew my 500$ and are now trading with the "bank's" money.  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
HT, can you make a myfxbook widget for your OTB account?  I would love to track it.

Will do Compujock.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Done!  :)

At the end of the cycle month, I plan to increase the equity if OTB continues in this successful route.

But for now, "testing the waters".  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: compujock on October 30, 2018, 04:18:49 PM
HT, can you make a myfxbook widget for your OTB account?  I would love to track it.
Will do Compujock.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Done!  :)

At the end of the cycle month, I plan to increase the equity if OTB continues in this successful route.

But for now, "testing the waters".  ;)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Great!  Thank-you.   :)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 01, 2018, 09:34:45 AM
Many people said this month presented significant challenges to hedge funds and traders. October brought us opportunities. I was expecting these couple months to be very volatile, so I was ready for it.

7.83% for Outside the Box
17.1% for medium risk
50% for Outside the Box High Risk


The rare white buffalo found pleasant pastures this month.
In many alternative investment spheres you will find there is growing interest in what we are achieving with the Underlying Strategy

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
https://copy.hotforex.com/sv/en/strategy-list.html (https://copy.hotforex.com/sv/en/strategy-list.html)
https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard (https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard)
(will be promoted to Pro Phase this month - stage 3 of 3 to becoming a certified money manager)

(https://dx-discourse.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files/original/2X/c/c628e97c9c11c934bd02568ee791ece15add8206.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Tripper on November 16, 2018, 05:03:40 PM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: compujock on November 16, 2018, 06:32:35 PM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.
That is crazy!  Sounds like a very aggressive version of fxviper's hold and hope strategy. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on November 16, 2018, 07:12:05 PM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.
That is crazy!  Sounds like a very aggressive version of fxviper's hold and hope strategy.

That was my first thought too! Scary!!!

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on November 17, 2018, 08:33:59 AM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.
That is crazy!  Sounds like a very aggressive version of fxviper's hold and hope strategy.

That was my first thought too! Scary!!!

Cheers,
Rod

If you’re going to let a hold and pray trader to trader on your accoynt, then why not just do it your self without the need of paying a monthly subscription for it.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 18, 2018, 11:26:29 AM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.


Greetings to all clients, subscribers, and those who are tracking this strategy.

After having some much-needed rest and relaxation with my family and friends over the weekend I would now like to address the first drawdown of notable size since:

October 2018 on High Risk strategy

March / April on Outside the Box Low Risk


I have taken some time to read some questions/comments from everyone and have given myself time to ponder and reflect.  I do this because from the very beginning my goal has been to offer a great, profitable, honest, and open service for others to profit from my trading.
Below the quote you will find my assessment of the current situation.
I know very well by now that there will always be those who come around and criticize and offer their opinions even when their motives may not align with the best interest of me or my clients, but I have  been very determined to not allow this to distract me from my original goal.  For this very reason, my strategy and trade execution has vastly improved over the last year. 
I am the first one to admit that drawdowns suck and I have worked hard to limit these occasions and avoid them.  So much so that you will see from the equity curve and my performance statistics that overall I have improved the execution of the strategy I had developed over 10 years and thus profits have continued to improve too.

The description of my strategy reads:

Quote
Once running drawdown from All time equity high reaches over 10% or one individual trades reaches a 5% to 7% loss I will consider hedging or scaling out. If Overall drawdown from equity high surpasses 20%, position sizing will decrease until a recovery is launched well.

and

Quote
-- Mental stop loss will be activated after 100 to 120 pips approximately as this is where my Maximum Adverse Excursion/Maximum Favorable Excursion indicate my losers have a low probability of recovering to profit


(https://image.ibb.co/j9qVLL/Mid-Nov-Update.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on November 27, 2018, 06:07:20 AM
I saw this in MQL5 signal page:

Gregory Herron | Yesterday
News about Manual RSI Ichimoku Scalping signal
*** This long track record low risk signal is being phased out at end of current subscription cycles (December 2018) **

*** New subscribers please see other low risk signals offered on SignalStart, MQL5, and SimpleTrader.

Track Record will be migrated to Darwinex, PsyQuation / AxiSelect, and other platforms that facilitate migration of historical track records for verified MT4 trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 27, 2018, 06:08:44 PM
I saw this in MQL5 signal page:

Gregory Herron | Yesterday
News about Manual RSI Ichimoku Scalping signal
*** This long track record low risk signal is being phased out at end of current subscription cycles (December 2018) **
*** New Outside the Box low risk signal being created for December (better latency)
*** New subscribers please see other low risk signals offered on SignalStart, MQL5, and SimpleTrader.

Track Record will be migrated to Darwinex, PsyQuation / AxiSelect, and other platforms that facilitate migration of historical track records for verified MT4 trading.

Hi @alaali and everyone

Yes I guess this is just what happens in FX sometimes. In the news article below, you can read what's currently happening. Fortunately, I can switch master accounts quite easily, and it comes at a good time in this stage of my basket position (a time when I do not add until the new month on the low risk signal). It's a great example of why we all should spread out our risk, because you never know when a brokerage is going to get into financial trouble. I spoke with a few very experienced brokerage firm partners and they are extremely surprised by this news, and they believe it will have quite a large impact in the NZ/Australian investment / finance space.

As usual though with me, I try to seize every potentially negative situation and use it to accomplish something good.
For a while now, I've been planning a couple new improved trade copying signals for the new year, and this means once your current month of subscription ends, I would like to ask my valued subscribers to move over to one of these new signals or one of my other signals.
This only affects the one signal: Outside the Box / Outside the Box HK / Outside the Box Ichimoku Scalping.
Let me know if you have any other questions.


This is to help with latency between servers, and due to Halifax Investment Services unexpectedly going into "external administration" this past week.
See news article here:  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12166975 (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12166975)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on November 27, 2018, 06:15:14 PM
I JUST read this about Halifax and posted it in the broker section here. Does this mean that your funds are lost? And does it mean that New Zealand is also bankrupt like Australia? Or just frozen? I wonder what happened here. Halifax looked like a big operation even owned by Lloyds bank maybe? Thats what Finance Feeds said. That is scary to know.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 28, 2018, 12:53:41 AM
I JUST read this about Halifax and posted it in the broker section here. Does this mean that your funds are lost? And does it mean that New Zealand is also bankrupt like Australia? Or just frozen? I wonder what happened here. Halifax looked like a big operation even owned by Lloyds bank maybe? Thats what Finance Feeds said. That is scary to know.

This has happened before and will happen again.
It must be decided by the Administrator how the assets and funds are allocated to creditors.
We all know there is a legal pecking order in these things so we shall see where investors / clients fall in this order, once it is determined how severe their debt problems are.
Halifax NZ is a subsidiary of the parent in Aussie, so they're connected. 
The only red flag I saw was a loan for $1.2 million, but this brokerage had a good balance sheet and was known as reputable, so that is why this news comes as a surprise.

Creditor meeting is on 7 December, and Ferrier Hodgson stated:

Quote
Most recent accounts filed to the Companies Office reveal Halifax NZ earned brokerage and subscription revenue of $2.4m in the year to March 31 for a profit of $16,726.
The company is required to maintain net tangible assets of at least $1m or 10% of revenue.
In June 2015 it obtained a $1.2m subordinated loan from its Australian parent to meet the [equity minimum] requirement. The terms provide Halifax Investment Services with security over the assets of the company.

At the March 31, 2018 balance date the balance of the loan was $1.11m.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on November 28, 2018, 05:34:12 AM
So is there any similar signal provided in mql5?

I plan to continue and would like your suggestion on which one of your signals to follow?

I saw this in MQL5 signal page:

Gregory Herron | Yesterday
News about Manual RSI Ichimoku Scalping signal
*** This long track record low risk signal is being phased out at end of current subscription cycles (December 2018) **
*** New Outside the Box low risk signal being created for December (better latency)
*** New subscribers please see other low risk signals offered on SignalStart, MQL5, and SimpleTrader.

Track Record will be migrated to Darwinex, PsyQuation / AxiSelect, and other platforms that facilitate migration of historical track records for verified MT4 trading.

Hi @alaali and everyone

Yes I guess this is just what happens in FX sometimes. In the news article below, you can read what's currently happening. Fortunately, I can switch master accounts quite easily, and it comes at a good time in this stage of my basket position (a time when I do not add until the new month on the low risk signal). It's a great example of why we all should spread out our risk, because you never know when a brokerage is going to get into financial trouble. I spoke with a few very experienced brokerage firm partners and they are extremely surprised by this news, and they believe it will have quite a large impact in the NZ/Australian investment / finance space.

As usual though with me, I try to seize every potentially negative situation and use it to accomplish something good.
For a while now, I've been planning a couple new improved trade copying signals for the new year, and this means once your current month of subscription ends, I would like to ask my valued subscribers to move over to one of these new signals or one of my other signals.
This only affects the one signal: Outside the Box / Outside the Box HK / Outside the Box Ichimoku Scalping.
Let me know if you have any other questions.


This is to help with latency between servers, and due to Halifax Investment Services unexpectedly going into "external administration" this past week.
See news article here:  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12166975 (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12166975)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 28, 2018, 06:32:13 AM
So is there any similar signal provided in mql5?

I plan to continue and would like your suggestion on which one of your signals to follow?

Depending on which Outside the Box strategy (low risk, medium risk, or high risk) you prefer, MQL5 does not offer another low risk strategy at the current moment. Only medium risk and high risk.

The low risk trade copying signals will be offered on SignalStart, SimpleTrader, and Darwinex. And SimpleTrader is the only trade copying platform that facilitates a free trial period, as they are the best all around customer service and technologically designed. MQL5 and SignalStart host the trader's MT4 Platform so no VPS is needed to copy trades. SimpleTrader uses an attached Expert Advisor to receive trades and requires hosting your MT4 account on VPS, and they offer management of Risk Multiplier and Rescue levels thru their admin panel.  Darwinex offers a unique CFD type of trade copying with High Water Mark performance fees and requires setting up an investor MT4 brokerage account with them.

Low Risk #1: https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
Low Risk #2: https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-axiselect/38309 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-axiselect/38309)
Low Risk #3:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
Low Risk #4:  SimpleTrader new low risk signal available first week in December once the current Outside the Box signal is completely phased out.
High Risk #3:  SimpleTrader new high risk Outside the Box Zero Spread Scalping available first week in December.

I have been tremendously inconvenienced by the Halifax brokerage going out of business, due to having to reorganize my master signal infrastructure and slave accounts of my own that were following the low risk signal, not to mention having my funds in two trading accounts frozen thru no fault of my own.  I am seizing this unfortunate event out of my control as an opportunity to consolidate the number of signals and strategies I offer for trade copying.

I had imagined that sometime in 2019 I will phase out all trade copying except the signals operated at SimpleTrader, once I have sufficient funds under management with performance fee compensation. 
This is to protect my open trades from being on-sold or copied for other purposes without my permission or compensation for my work.
It is also so that I can move a level up professionally and only work with investors who believe in my skills to hit consistent new equity highs, want to remain invested long term, and who are willing to pay performance fees only on new profits instead of monthly subscription fees.

The costs and time spent by trade copiers is relatively minimal, considering the profit potential of following strategies such as the ones I have developed.  I have reached the stage where I want to think more formally and professionally about my trading for investors.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on November 28, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
What's the plan for the current AUDUSD basket? Really got caught out on the wrong side of it, doubt there will be a reversal back to the previous levels all fundamentals have changed
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 29, 2018, 11:14:35 AM
What's the plan for the current AUDUSD basket? Really got caught out on the wrong side of it, doubt there will be a reversal back to the previous levels all fundamentals have changed

Hi @Phynicle

As always I stick with my trade plan, until it doesn't work.  Established technicals are followed, risk is managed depending on where we are at in the range, and short trend scalps or contrarian scalps taken in recovery period.
I can't always explain all my management, but I commit to communicating my best when I have time away from the charts and news feed.

--Powell gave himself room but many disagree with market interpretation and overreaction
--My trade plan is still viable and active. Especially with terrible Aussie GDP inputs of construction and Capex, And tariffs, Italy, Brexit, trade war risks nowhere near being over.
--Lessened risk at bottom of range for this contingency

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on November 29, 2018, 05:08:28 PM
I've signed up for this and appreciate it's marketed as a high risk service but the risk reward seems crazy. Really high strike rate of winning trades averaging maybe 8 pips a go but just continally adds to losing positions in the hope of them coming back. Hopefully we get a sell off next week but 700 pips in floating losses when you average 8 pips a win seems crazy.
That is crazy!  Sounds like a very aggressive version of fxviper's hold and hope strategy.

That was my first thought too! Scary!!!

Cheers,
Rod

yes audusd instead of eurusd
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 30, 2018, 09:53:04 AM

yes audusd instead of eurusd

It's funny to me that you guys are forgetting to highlight/mention one hugely important thing....
I haven't blown up any strategy I have started and managed on behalf of investors.
FXViper did.
Also.... FXViper would hold open trades for months and months.... the long duration trades that I hold are kept within a smaller range and also they longest I would hold would be about 30 to 40 days.
If you feel it is beneficial to compare my trading/strategy to FXViper and/or other systems, that's fine.  But remember there are 100's of followers of my trade strategy since May 2017, and they have made big profits.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: krisz on November 30, 2018, 11:38:59 AM
Hi,

The problem is that you are saying something, but not doing this.
You said you close a trade 100-120 pips in loss max. Now the AUDUSD was already -150 pips two weeks ago. Now -145 again... still running. Why? You said you close it max -120.
Now how can anyone trust you? You say again max 30-40 days (which I don't get it how can be a range, it should be an exact number). How can we trust that that you will do that if you still not close the -150 pips. And you are wondering why the others say hold and pray strategy... because it is. You are keep refusing your own rule. That means what you say and what you do is 2 completely different thing.

I know, I am the bad guy again, but what I said are only facts.

all the others: be warned.

Regards,
Krisz
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 30, 2018, 05:17:02 PM
Hi,

The problem is that you are saying something, but not doing this.
You said you close a trade 100-120 pips in loss max. Now the AUDUSD was already -150 pips two weeks ago. Now -145 again... still running. Why? You said you close it max -120.
Now how can anyone trust you? You say again max 30-40 days (which I don't get it how can be a range, it should be an exact number). How can we trust that that you will do that if you still not close the -150 pips. And you are wondering why the others say hold and pray strategy... because it is. You are keep refusing your own rule. That means what you say and what you do is 2 completely different thing.

I know, I am the bad guy again, but what I said are only facts.

all the others: be warned.

Regards,
Krisz


Hi Krisz

Go back and read about all the drawdowns I've ever recovered from.
Go back and read people just like yourself saying the same thing.
"How can we ever trust you?"
"You're a wild trader, and we need you to explain how you trade."
"You need to live within your trade strategy 100% for us to invest with you, or to trust you, or to give you credit as a good trader."
The list goes on and on and on.

So when you says these things, am I listening?
Yes of course.  That actually is the exact reason why I have NOT bound myself 100% by any one rule of my strategy.  I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I don't mind saying it again.  This is WHY I am a success.  It is called "outside the box".
And the description wording of my trade strategy reads:

Quote
"Mental stop loss will be activated after 100 to 120 pips approximately as this is where my Maximum Adverse Excursion/Maximum Favorable Excursion indicate my
losers have a low probability of recovering to profit (see explanation below)"

and....

"Stop losses only used during risk events and times of uncertainty. This protects our strategy from being nullified by Market Makers or less rigid areas of support / resistance. It has been more important for me to manually assess whether to cut a position at the time it occurs with a "mental" stop loss. I use discernment acquired over 14 years of experience, and I base the decision on market conditions. (The outlier loss in Sept 2017 was the one occasion when I tested this rule, and I was able to verify that this MFE/MAE maxim does hold true). Only on small positions will I allow a loss to continue over 125 pips. Never to exceed 8% loss on any single trade."

So now that you've read it again.
You can see that I have given myself room so that you know this is THE WAY I trade.
I have worked 80 hour weeks to develop my strategy so that I can have freedom in my profession and to fulfill my dreams.
I became a trader because I love numbers, patterns, codes, and tech.
When others follow my strategy this is great for them, but I continue to trade the way I always have done and look for ways I can improve and tweak my skills.
When i trade for myself I follow these guidelines as Warning Signs.
When I get to the warning sign, I use much more caution, but I still use my discretion and best judgment at the time when I arrive at a "warning sign".
I do NOT just make a robotic action according to one of my guidelines. 
The reason this works, and why I have been able to recover from 9 or 10 drawdowns in the 22 months of my strategy, is because this is how the trends and patterns develop, gather momentum, and lose momentum.

The image below shows the 4 positions that remain open on this basket.
This week risk has been reduced from 7 open positions.
This week more profit has been added to the month total.
Drawdown is currently 5.5%, which has been reduced from 9.3%.
Adverse excursion right now is -140

(https://i.ibb.co/ykPTMd6/drawdown.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on November 30, 2018, 06:00:26 PM
Hi OTB,

I think I mentioned this here on in another Forum. This whole issue of not following your 'Rules' could be very easily avoided.

All you have to do is to NOT state things as a Rule, or 'I will do so and so'. Just state them as 'Guidelines'.

If people continue to believe you have Rules because of the way you make the statements you will continue to get flak when you 'Break' your stated Rules.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on November 30, 2018, 06:38:40 PM
Hi OTB,

I think I mentioned this here on in another Forum. This whole issue of not following your 'Rules' could be very easily avoided.

All you have to do is to NOT state things as a Rule, or 'I will do so and so'. Just state them as 'Guidelines'.

If people continue to believe you have Rules because of the way you make the statements you will continue to get flak when you 'Break' your stated Rules.

Cheers,
Rod

Hi Rod.
Great discussion, and yes I have heard this very good advice from you previously and thanks for it.  It is valuable.
I study very often the mistakes that usually beset even the best of traders and I wanted to mention a very good video and book that describe some of these issues quite succinctly:

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on December 01, 2018, 07:13:51 PM
If you take a step back, the current basket barely even registers. Here's a screenshot of my account following OTB for 1 year. Unfortunately I turned down the risk at the end of April right before this unprecedented stretch of straight profit, or my trendline since then would be even steeper. Still, that's over 3K in banked profit. As someone who initially had serious doubts and questioned the strategy, I am now fully comfortable with how OTB operates. It's not how I would personally trade, but then again my manual trading has not produced these kinds of results long term.

I understand that others checking things out will be skeptical, but please don't change the recipe. It works at a time when not much else has. As a paying customer, I vote to change nothing. I'm not sure if the flak is coming from purely observant third parties or brand new subscribers, but I can't imagine a client booking seven straight months of profit would be complaining and demanding change.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 02, 2018, 12:52:54 AM
Glad November is behind us.
It was a month fraught with significant and complex trading challenges.
Including one of my brokers going into external administration. 
Hungry as a skinny leopard in the jungle, so just gotta keep getting up to confront what comes our way.
This next week I will launch a new low risk master account signal which will be available on SimpleTrader and SignalStart.
The old master account with 22 month track record unfortunately must be phased out once the basket is closed.  This track record will be migrated on some platforms so I don't lose it, and on others I will make a note that the track record is being continued on another new account at Mt Cook.


November Profit on Low Risk strategy:            4.38%
November Profit on Medium Risk strategy:     12.35%
November Profit on High Risk strategy:          17.36%

Currently managing a recovery on a risk-off AUDUSD basket, which has been reduced from 7 positions to 4 positions this past week.  If you include the drawdown that was caused this month by Powell's speech, then the month was about flat for all strategies.  As I have told numerous interested followers, I am sticking to my original trade plan, working on recovery countermeasures in small scalping trades, and gradually reducing risk into year end.

Powell gave himself wiggle room, but many traders now disagree with the original market interpretation and overreaction which I expect to fade out. My trade plan is still viable and active. Especially with terrible GDP inputs of construction and Capex, which are going to make this week's AUD GDP data worse and Aussie rate decision more dovish in my mind, especially with tariffs, trade tensions, slowing China, Brexit, and Italy budget nowhere near being resolved.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: littlemax on December 02, 2018, 01:15:37 AM
If you take a step back, the current basket barely even registers. Here's a screenshot of my account following OTB for 1 year. Unfortunately I turned down the risk at the end of April right before this unprecedented stretch of straight profit, or my trendline since then would be even steeper. Still, that's over 3K in banked profit. As someone who initially had serious doubts and questioned the strategy, I am now fully comfortable with how OTB operates. It's not how I would personally trade, but then again my manual trading has not produced these kinds of results long term.

I understand that others checking things out will be skeptical, but please don't change the recipe. It works at a time when not much else has. As a paying customer, I vote to change nothing. I'm not sure if the flak is coming from purely observant third parties or brand new subscribers, but I can't imagine a client booking seven straight months of profit would be complaining and demanding change.
Pretty much echoes my own sentiments as well, thanks Greg.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on December 10, 2018, 08:02:41 AM

Depending on which Outside the Box strategy (low risk, medium risk, or high risk) you prefer, MQL5 does not offer another low risk strategy at the current moment. Only medium risk and high risk.

The low risk trade copying signals will be offered on SignalStart, SimpleTrader, and Darwinex. And SimpleTrader is the only trade copying platform that facilitates a free trial period, as they are the best all around customer service and technologically designed. MQL5 and SignalStart host the trader's MT4 Platform so no VPS is needed to copy trades. SimpleTrader uses an attached Expert Advisor to receive trades and requires hosting your MT4 account on VPS, and they offer management of Risk Multiplier and Rescue levels thru their admin panel.  Darwinex offers a unique CFD type of trade copying with High Water Mark performance fees and requires setting up an investor MT4 brokerage account with them.

Low Risk #1: https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
Low Risk #2: https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-axiselect/38309 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box-axiselect/38309)
Low Risk #3:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
Low Risk #4:  SimpleTrader new low risk signal available first week in December once the current Outside the Box signal is completely phased out.
High Risk #3:  SimpleTrader new high risk Outside the Box Zero Spread Scalping available first week in December.

I have been tremendously inconvenienced by the Halifax brokerage going out of business, due to having to reorganize my master signal infrastructure and slave accounts of my own that were following the low risk signal, not to mention having my funds in two trading accounts frozen thru no fault of my own.  I am seizing this unfortunate event out of my control as an opportunity to consolidate the number of signals and strategies I offer for trade copying.

I had imagined that sometime in 2019 I will phase out all trade copying except the signals operated at SimpleTrader, once I have sufficient funds under management with performance fee compensation. 
This is to protect my open trades from being on-sold or copied for other purposes without my permission or compensation for my work.
It is also so that I can move a level up professionally and only work with investors who believe in my skills to hit consistent new equity highs, want to remain invested long term, and who are willing to pay performance fees only on new profits instead of monthly subscription fees.

The costs and time spent by trade copiers is relatively minimal, considering the profit potential of following strategies such as the ones I have developed.  I have reached the stage where I want to think more formally and professionally about my trading for investors.

So I’ve been subscribed to the Simpletrader OutsidetheBox standard (not high risk) signal for the past year or so. Is that one low or medium risk? I’m a little confused about which signal I have to pick up this month once this one discontinues.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 10, 2018, 11:01:56 AM
Hi @5ninefish

The new OTB master signal will be activated soon on SimpleTrader and it will be very apparent which one is the correct one, as I will re-name the old signal as "phasing out" and the new one (with 2 weeks free trial) as "New".  I'll let you know with at least 5 days advance notice when this transition will begin.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 10, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
Hi @5ninefish

The new OTB master signal will be activated soon on SimpleTrader and it will be very apparent which one is the correct one, as I will re-name the old signal as "phasing out" and the new one (with 2 weeks free trial) as "New".  I'll let you know with at least 5 days advance notice when this transition will begin.


Hello, OTB:

Would you advise if my OTB account comes up for renewal with SignalStart, I should not renew and pay the monthly fee but switch now to SimpleTrader?

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 10, 2018, 04:52:39 PM

Hello, OTB:
Would you advise if my OTB account comes up for renewal with SignalStart, I should not renew and pay the monthly fee but switch now to SimpleTrader?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Hi there.
Actually I am not able to do this.
SignalStart does not identify individual subscriptions on my admin panel.  All that I see is number of subscribers and funds available for withdrawal.  They have intentionally limited both followers and providers from being able to know certain "private" information that they keep for their own.  The new OTB low risk master signal will be available on:

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 10, 2018, 05:02:58 PM

Hello, OTB:
Would you advise if my OTB account comes up for renewal with SignalStart, I should not renew and pay the monthly fee but switch now to SimpleTrader?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Hi there.
Actually I am not able to do this.
SignalStart does not identify individual subscriptions on my admin panel.  All that I see is number of subscribers and funds available for withdrawal.  They have intentionally limited both followers and providers from being able to know certain "private" information that they keep for their own.  The new OTB low risk master signal will be available on:

  • SimpleTrader   (link not available yet)
  • SignalStart  https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
  • ZuluTrade   https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading)

I hope you are aware of open positions which must be abandoned at a loss in order to make the switch and a specific date to switch and close, would be very helpful. Perhaps you may need to hold off new positions until all open positions are closed so we can all start afresh.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 10, 2018, 05:10:49 PM

I hope you are aware of open positions which must be abandoned at a loss in order to make the switch and a specific date to switch and close, would be very helpful. Perhaps you may need to hold off new positions until all open positions are closed so we can all start afresh.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Yes I am well aware of 2 open positions, and these WILL NOT be abandoned.
I am waiting to close these positions before I migrate / phase out.
I won't know a date until we get closer to closing.  According to my analysis it should be soon, and then I will give 5 days advance notice and 2 weeks free trial to ease the transition.
I have not added new positions on the main master signal account for over one week due to planning for this change.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on December 10, 2018, 06:36:46 PM
Perhaps it would just be better to close those 2 positions at small loss and start with the new signal. The loss would be tiny and it would allow you to continue trading immediately instead of being forced to wait.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 10, 2018, 08:49:59 PM
Perhaps it would just be better to close those 2 positions at small loss and start with the new signal. The loss would be tiny and it would allow you to continue trading immediately instead of being forced to wait.
44

Yes, but if you have just renewed your monthly signal, that would be in addition to the open position loss, just wasted money.

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on December 10, 2018, 10:27:12 PM
I have just renewed in fact (I think or very recently). But there will be free 2 weeks and there is always a possibility of those 2 positions going against us again and then what? His account is in close only mode so he has very limited options when it comes to managing this basket. I know what I'd do but I'm not running the show so I'll just leave it at that.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 10, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
I have just renewed in fact (I think or very recently). But there will be free 2 weeks and there is always a possibility of those 2 positions going against us again and then what? His account is in close only mode so he has very limited options when it comes to managing this basket. I know what I'd do but I'm not running the show so I'll just leave it at that.

We have to trust OTB, that he will make the transition as least painful; let's wait and see.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 13, 2018, 11:03:28 AM
Here is the new low risk signal for OUTSIDE THE BOX connected to Mt Cook.
https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html)

*** The old low risk signal is now closed **
All trades closed.
New signal has a 2 week free trial.

Any subscribers to the master account signal from SignalStart or MQL5 will either need to subscribe to the NEW signal on SignalStart, ZuluTrade, or here at SimpleTrader

Let me know if you have any questions or need help.

https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading
 (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading)
PAMM fund investment available thru Darwinex, PsyQuation / AxiSelect, and Mt Cook.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GrcAAOxy-HtRYkPH/s-l300.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: littlemax on December 14, 2018, 07:36:43 AM
Hi Greg, I wasn't sure what you plan to do with the current high risk signal at Simple Trader, is that being migrated across to a new signal as well when current trades close?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 14, 2018, 07:48:41 AM
Hi Greg, I wasn't sure what you plan to do with the current high risk signal at Simple Trader, is that being migrated across to a new signal as well when current trades close?

Hi there
The high risk signal is not affected, as I have said in previous forum posts.  It is housed at a different broker, so it will continue functioning as normal.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on December 14, 2018, 10:06:26 AM
Finally flat on the high risk signal. Thanks Greg for the green pips.

With Christmas almost around the corner, what are your plans for remainder of this month?


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 14, 2018, 10:35:21 AM
Finally flat on the high risk signal. Thanks Greg for the green pips.

With Christmas almost around the corner, what are your plans for remainder of this month?


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Business as usual, but of course I'm wary of thinning liquidity so I will continue scanning for setups as I normally do thru the holiday period.  I normally trade a bit smaller and less frequently during this time of year until 2nd week in January when normal volume and predictable trading resumes.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on December 14, 2018, 02:52:31 PM
Finally flat on the high risk signal. Thanks Greg for the green pips.

With Christmas almost around the corner, what are your plans for remainder of this month?


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Business as usual, but of course I'm wary of thinning liquidity so I will continue scanning for setups as I normally do thru the holiday period.  I normally trade a bit smaller and less frequently during this time of year until 2nd week in January when normal volume and predictable trading resumes.

Dear Greg,

Thanks for the heads-up.

Tariq
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 14, 2018, 10:45:53 PM
Here is the new low risk signal for OUTSIDE THE BOX connected to Mt Cook.
https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html)

*** The old low risk signal is now closed **
All trades closed.
New signal has a 2 week free trial.

Any subscribers to the master account signal from SignalStart or MQL5 will either need to subscribe to the NEW signal on SignalStart, ZuluTrade, or here at SimpleTrader

Let me know if you have any questions or need help.

https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading
 (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading)
PAMM fund investment available thru Darwinex, PsyQuation / AxiSelect, and Mt Cook.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GrcAAOxy-HtRYkPH/s-l300.jpg)



For old subscribers who had either 3 month or 12 month subscription I have searched for a way I can continue that pricing structure as a result of this Halifax account closure, but I cannot.
If you fall into this category, write me a PM here or email me (with subscription date, duration of subscription, and Paypal email address) and I will refund the amount of the subscription still outstanding.
I hope you continue with the new signal, and I will be having a New Year offer for this new signal in Janurary 2019.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 25, 2018, 05:52:39 AM
Wishing you the gifts of the season Peace, Joy, Hope, Mercy, Forgiveness, and Love.
Thanks so much for a productive year and for placing trust in my strategy.

This is the time of year when we all pause and remember God who gives us life, loved ones, and the power and wisdom to build wealth by doing what we love.

Just an update on how Zulutrade investor exposure is going 10 days after migrating my system to their platform.
Outside the Box - ZuluTrade (performance fees & trade copying)-- https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/social (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/social)

(https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=105899&d=1545702164)

(https://media.swncdn.com/cms/CROSSCARDS/28971-cm-Child-born-son-given-Jesus-christmas-social.500w.tn.png)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on December 25, 2018, 03:14:06 PM
Wishing you the gifts of the season Peace, Joy, Hope, Mercy, Forgiveness, and Love.
Thanks so much for a productive year and for placing trust in my strategy.

This is the time of year when we all pause and remember God who gives us life, loved ones, and the power and wisdom to build wealth by doing what we love.

Just an update on how Zulutrade investor exposure is going 10 days after migrating my system to their platform.
Outside the Box - ZuluTrade (performance fees & trade copying)-- https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/social (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/social)

(https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/filedata/fetch?id=105899&d=1545702164)

(https://media.swncdn.com/cms/CROSSCARDS/28971-cm-Child-born-son-given-Jesus-christmas-social.500w.tn.png)

Merry Christmas Greg; the very best to you and your family.

Will you please clarify:

1) A possible date you will begin trading in earnest; I am switching over from SignalStart to SimpleTrader and want to take full advantage of the two free weeks.

2) I am not sure but have you stated that after next year (2020), you will not be offering your signal at SimpleTrader; if so, what will the small investors with accounts less than 5k do, will they be forgotten?  :-[


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on December 25, 2018, 04:40:06 PM

Merry Christmas Greg; the very best to you and your family.

Will you please clarify:

1) A possible date you will begin trading in earnest; I am switching over from SignalStart to SimpleTrader and want to take full advantage of the two free weeks.

2) I am not sure but have you stated that after next year (2020), you will not be offering your signal at SimpleTrader; if so, what will the small investors with accounts less than 5k do, will they be forgotten?  :-[


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Thanks.
I take what the market gives me.
I will be at the desk tomorrow (on my birthday).  But I only take trades that meet my strategy criteria.
This one week before 1st week in January is usually difficult to predict, so I use more caution in trading.
In 2020 I will close all trade copying if all goes well with Asset Management with performance fees.  It is all a real-time labor, so I cannot know with certainty, but again only likelihood based on probability and intuition.
If you hound me, I won't forget you.
This is how Jesus performed his miracles on Earth too, by the way.  He responded to those who exercised their faith and action.  Now, I'm not saying I am Jesus or anything, but I do like to learn from what he taught us.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on December 30, 2018, 07:56:13 AM
I prefer to use a trade copying service rather than MAM/PAMM. I can close trades if I like to or I can stop copying trades if I want to.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on January 02, 2019, 05:19:52 AM
What is the difference between the OTB High Risk 2 and OTB High Return on MQL5? I think I've been subscribing to High Return, but is High Risk 2 an even riskier version of that signal?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 02, 2019, 05:31:21 AM
good eye.
Yup exactly.
4.5x risk - not for the faint of heart.  roller coaster rocket ship style.
I'm pushing my skills and strategy to see what I can do.  to find what its limits are.
the OTB high return account is 4x risk, and it jumps into trades on more setups/signals than the Low Risk Flagship Master Account strategy BUT not as many as I am going to do with High Risk #2.  As you can see already today with 0.5%
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 04, 2019, 10:21:36 AM
Hi Gregory,

A great idea with the High Risk 2 account, for those feeling a little more adventurous.

However, I don't understand your trading strategy. You have been selling AUDUSD since that very bullish pin bar on the daily chart (3 January), when the rest of the world has been buying and making decent profit.

Now we find ourselves in a relatively large drawdown situation (I appreciate this is how you usually trade), but in my view this could have been avoided, with some easy profit to be made.

Putting in a large sell order at a multi-year low doesn't make much sense to me, so I wondered what your take on this is.

Am I missing something...?

Best regards,

Dan.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 04, 2019, 03:58:55 PM
You have got to be kidding me. I've just lost half my entire account balance on that AUDUSD trade! WTF kind of trade management is that...?! I'm sorry but that is just totally irresponsible.  >:(

Thankfully only half the account, as it would have been a total wipeout by the looks had I copied at 1:1 ratio.

Advise to take this signal down before others get burned and go back to the drawing board with your dangerous strategy.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 04, 2019, 05:49:48 PM
I'm annoyed at myself, for signing up to a copy account where the provider was experimenting and 'pushing my skills and strategy to see what I can do'.

Alarm bells were already ringing when I read that post and I should have listened to my gut instinct and pulled the plug this morning, taking a relatively small loss.

You have totally wiped out my last four months of hard earned gains with your High Risk 2 account catastrophe.

What a disastrous start to 2019.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 04, 2019, 08:18:46 PM
"there is far less to lose than to gain with a proven strategy over 18 months."

Will there be any compensation for the traders who's accounts have been wiped out as a result of poor trade management on the "High Risk 2" signal? It is going to take months to recover these substantial losses.

Please advise.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 04, 2019, 10:00:00 PM
Unfortunately he doesn't want to be bound by any rules so it's really very difficult to judge what you're really risking. I had a complaint like that before for another account of his. It's really important that we know what we're risking and if he (or anybody else) doesn't want to state it then you just have to assume that it's the whole account unfortunately. Putting it in the description would likely consequently lose him some subscribers but it would also avoid disastrous consequences like yours. Some people are fine with risking a lot, some are not.

We can all trust his judgement and ability to trade and that's probably the reason for subscribing anyway. But risk should ultimately be our choice. We have all the tools at our disposal to adjust risk but we need to know the starting point obviously. If in doubt - assume total wipeout and adjust accordingly. This goes for Outsidethebox and every other vendor out there.

Sorry to hear about your loss. You really got unlucky here it looks like because yesterday he made a lot of money but for some reason you missed that and just got this loss.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on January 04, 2019, 10:52:17 PM
Selling multi year lows, not sure what was happening
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Tripper on January 04, 2019, 10:56:22 PM
I subscribe via Simple Trader (using their VPS) with account connected to IC Markets and have had no trades since those closed on 14 December.

Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 05, 2019, 07:52:09 AM
I'm annoyed at myself, for signing up to a copy account where the provider was experimenting and 'pushing my skills and strategy to see what I can do'.

Alarm bells were already ringing when I read that post and I should have listened to my gut instinct and pulled the plug this morning, taking a relatively small loss.

You have totally wiped out my last four months of hard earned gains with your High Risk 2 account catastrophe.

What a disastrous start to 2019.

Side Walk Star

"A great idea with the High Risk 2 account, for those feeling a little more adventurous."

This ULTRA high risk strategy was relatively new, and I always advise my clients who want this type of risk to only invest a small amount at first, and then to withdraw profits each month so that they can recuperate their initial investment as quickly as possible.
I invested $800 of my own and built it up to $2300 then it crashed.
This strategy is ok, but I will now tweak the risk a bit lower, as 8x risk does not work as well as the normal "high risk" OTB strategy that is still doing well and compounding profits nicely over a longer period.
I sense your frustration, and of course I am sorry for our loss, but it's not over until you quit.
I'll be back at it next week and can recover that capital quite quickly.  This is the mentality and mental toughness that is required to master the FX arena in each and every way.  The low, medium, and high risk might be better for you.  Have a look at those instead maybe.
You knew the risk and I traded within the bounds of my stated description, so even though I want all my 1500 clients to have profitable months every month, no system is perfect and we just have to do our best by managing our own capital in different ways, not putting all our eggs in one basket, and also managing your own stop loss orders if you feel squeamish or uncertain at any time.
This is one of the advantages of trade copying over other Fund investments, but you have to stay vigilant.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 05, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Unfortunately he doesn't want to be bound by any rules so it's really very difficult to judge what you're really risking. I had a complaint like that before for another account of his. It's really important that we know what we're risking and if he (or anybody else) doesn't want to state it then you just have to assume that it's the whole account unfortunately. Putting it in the description would likely consequently lose him some subscribers but it would also avoid disastrous consequences like yours. Some people are fine with risking a lot, some are not.

We can all trust his judgement and ability to trade and that's probably the reason for subscribing anyway. But risk should ultimately be our choice. We have all the tools at our disposal to adjust risk but we need to know the starting point obviously. If in doubt - assume total wipeout and adjust accordingly. This goes for Outsidethebox and every other vendor out there.

Sorry to hear about your loss. You really got unlucky here it looks like because yesterday he made a lot of money but for some reason you missed that and just got this loss.


I am one of the most communicative strategy providers and I have always stated the risks and strategy in the description as you have said.  I even changed my description to include more ** warnings ** as a result of a discussion we had here.
I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt (and this has been proven over and over again with other good traders like Steady Capture and FXViper) that you can do very well for a long long time and then make a big mistake and then that is the time when everyone "views the FX price action in the rearview mirror" and say they knew better, they knew how to trade better, and "how could you do such an irresponsible and stupid" trade or basket of trades?
But the only thing that we can do is learn form our mistakes, get up and try again, and treat others with the respect that we also would want.
There is nothing wrong I did, just need to tweak things.  I only put $800 into the account and I stated ahead of time that I was trying a new strategy and that I was pushing the normal limits a bit.  This is what I will continue to do, put it out publicly for others to critique and invest in, and I'll just keep going no matter what.  I have proven my strategies are consistent and profitable and good, but this one is a work in progress.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 05, 2019, 08:05:13 AM
I subscribe via Simple Trader (using their VPS) with account connected to IC Markets and have had no trades since those closed on 14 December.

Not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

That signal is closed and stated this here in this forum, at ForexSignals, on SimpleTrader community, and on MyFXBook.

The NEW low risk signal is:    https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10457/Outside-the-Box-NEW.html)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 05, 2019, 09:07:16 AM


This ULTRA high risk strategy was relatively new, and I always advise my clients who want this type of risk to only invest a small amount at first, and then to withdraw profits each month so that they can recuperate their initial investment as quickly as possible.
I invested $800 of my own and built it up to $2300 then it crashed.
This strategy is ok, but I will now tweak the risk a bit lower, as 8x risk does not work as well as the normal "high risk" OTB strategy that is still doing well and compounding profits nicely over a longer period.
I sense your frustration, and of course I am sorry for our loss, but it's not over until you quit.
I'll be back at it next week and can recover that capital quite quickly.  This is the mentality and mental toughness that is required to master the FX arena in each and every way.  The low, medium, and high risk might be better for you.  Have a look at those instead maybe.
You knew the risk and I traded within the bounds of my stated description, so even though I want all my 1500 clients to have profitable months every month, no system is perfect and we just have to do our best by managing our own capital in different ways, not putting all our eggs in one basket, and also managing your own stop loss orders if you feel squeamish or uncertain at any time.
This is one of the advantages of trade copying over other Fund investments, but you have to stay vigilant.

Thank you for your reply. This is all very well, however it doesn't explain why you were selling into one of the most bullish signals AUDUSD has given us in years. That was just plain irresponsible and an easy profit could have been made by getting on the 'right' side of the trade.

It's all very well posting consistent profits across your Outside the Box accounts, but you seem to nearly always be trading with a large drawdown, which raises questions regarding the potential risk/reward on these accounts.

I knew this one was high risk but I thought you would at least have some control over the amount of capital we could lose. I  started with just a couple of thousand pounds a few months ago and have traded it up myself to £5.6k. I wanted to use "High Risk 2" for just one month only, to help me grow the account substantially along side my own trades.

I lost £2.5k yesterday, so as you can imagine I am very upset at the moment. I am just glad I decided to copy at x0.5 on the multiplier, otherwise I would have zero account balance now. This catastrophe has undone all my hard work over the past few months - not to mention the additional £77 it cost me in subscription. Not a nice way to start 2019.

I felt sick all evening and didn't sleep well, knowing that all my efforts over the past few months had been destroyed in just 24 hours, by somebody else's actions and my own foolish decision to copy at such high risk. It's a great shame this has happened, because out of all the signal providers you looked to be the most professional and trustworthy. Now, unfortunately, that trust is being tested.

It will take me a long time to recoup these losses, but I'll continue with my own strategy and effectively start over. I was going to switch to your Outside the Box master account in February, where risk is not so much an issue. Now I wonder if I can trust your trading decisions and risk management. I will need to reassess once emotions subside.

I hope you all have a better weekend than mine.

Regards,

Dan.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on January 05, 2019, 12:29:30 PM


This ULTRA high risk strategy was relatively new, and I always advise my clients who want this type of risk to only invest a small amount at first, and then to withdraw profits each month so that they can recuperate their initial investment as quickly as possible.
I invested $800 of my own and built it up to $2300 then it crashed.
This strategy is ok, but I will now tweak the risk a bit lower, as 8x risk does not work as well as the normal "high risk" OTB strategy that is still doing well and compounding profits nicely over a longer period.
I sense your frustration, and of course I am sorry for our loss, but it's not over until you quit.
I'll be back at it next week and can recover that capital quite quickly.  This is the mentality and mental toughness that is required to master the FX arena in each and every way.  The low, medium, and high risk might be better for you.  Have a look at those instead maybe.
You knew the risk and I traded within the bounds of my stated description, so even though I want all my 1500 clients to have profitable months every month, no system is perfect and we just have to do our best by managing our own capital in different ways, not putting all our eggs in one basket, and also managing your own stop loss orders if you feel squeamish or uncertain at any time.
This is one of the advantages of trade copying over other Fund investments, but you have to stay vigilant.

Thank you for your reply. This is all very well, however it doesn't explain why you were selling into one of the most bullish signals AUDUSD has given us in years. That was just plain irresponsible and an easy profit could have been made by getting on the 'right' side of the trade.

It's all very well posting consistent profits across your Outside the Box accounts, but you seem to nearly always be trading with a large drawdown, which raises questions regarding the potential risk/reward on these accounts.

I knew this one was high risk but I thought you would at least have some control over the amount of capital we could lose. I  started with just a couple of thousand pounds a few months ago and have traded it up myself to £5.6k. I wanted to use "High Risk 2" for just one month only, to help me grow the account substantially along side my own trades.

I lost £2.5k yesterday, so as you can imagine I am very upset at the moment. I am just glad I decided to copy at x0.5 on the multiplier, otherwise I would have zero account balance now. This catastrophe has undone all my hard work over the past few months - not to mention the additional £77 it cost me in subscription. Not a nice way to start 2019.

I felt sick all evening and didn't sleep well, knowing that all my efforts over the past few months had been destroyed in just 24 hours, by somebody else's actions and my own foolish decision to copy at such high risk. It's a great shame this has happened, because out of all the signal providers you looked to be the most professional and trustworthy. Now, unfortunately, that trust is being tested.

It will take me a long time to recoup these losses, but I'll continue with my own strategy and effectively start over. I was going to switch to your Outside the Box master account in February, where risk is not so much an issue. Now I wonder if I can trust your trading decisions and risk management. I will need to reassess once emotions subside.

I hope you all have a better weekend than mine.

Regards,

Dan.

If you traded 'a couple of thousand pounds' up to 5.6K in a couple of months you were doing well and should have stuck with it!

Don't trade funds you cannot afford to lose.

If you can't take the heat then stay away from the fire.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on January 05, 2019, 02:41:23 PM

dan,

if you doubled you account with your own trading, then why the heck do you look elsewhere.

trading your own funds then its totally up to you, take responsibility man.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 06, 2019, 05:24:53 AM
@side-walk star / Dan / and others

I know that sick feeling for sure.
Go back and look at my other drawdowns and mistakes, they have been well documented and recovered from.
Sometimes they don't take as long as you might think to recover from.  It is the resilience and positive outlook and balanced perspective that is most important to keep going after learning tough lessons like this one.

Also keep in mind that I had just booked a stellar 169 pip trade on AUDUSD during the flash crash AND.....
Many accounts of retail traders and fund managers had just been either blown or majorly damanaged by margin calls at the time of the flash crash only just 24 hours before I set this current trade.  They lost much bigger accounts on their main accounts at low risk and brokers have told me that many people are in trouble as a result of that day.

The significant challenge with forex (and most all types of trading) is that you don't know when the next BIG geopolitical event or Central Bank event will affect your open trades, and even setting stop loss orders sometimes does not insulate you from much higher losses than you had set in advance.

I wouldn't immediately say that trust is broken, as I made all the right disclaimers ahead of time.
This was more a matter of taking too much risk (on my part and on your part) at a time when AUDUSD had broken major support levels and had a high probability of respecting those levels of support-turning-resistance on a re-test.
Oftentimes, once there is this much pessimism in a currency pair and related risk assets (equities) these strong trends will continue.
You cannot look backwards and claim that you knew your technical analysis would have been more productive, as this is mere speculation and conjecture.  It is best to take responsibility as soon as possible and get right back into the arena again and learn the tough lessons that this situation brings with it.

All of this is part of determining what risk to take, and then be happy with the profits when they come a majority of the time, and then also deal with the losses when they come not so frequently as you can see with all my other strategies.
I was taking more risk with this new strategy because I am testing it LIVE, which is the only real way to know how something is responding to real market forces and your own judgment / skill.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 06, 2019, 09:55:23 AM


If you traded 'a couple of thousand pounds' up to 5.6K in a couple of months you were doing well and should have stuck with it!

Don't trade funds you cannot afford to lose.

If you can't take the heat then stay away from the fire.

With regard to your comment, yes I traded couple of thousand up to 5.6K, but it was over the course of four months (in my original comment I stated a few months, not a couple). And I will continue to use my own strategies going forward, as mentioned.

The reason I signed up to copy Outside the Box High Risk 2 was to assist in getting this new account up to a decent size in a shorter time frame than I had originally planned, and obviously this has backfired on me.

I kick myself because I am not an inexperienced trader, I have been doing this a few years. If something looks too good to be true then it probably is... and in this case I totally went against my usual money management rules and paid the price. An expensive lesson learned.

With regard to not trading funds that you can lose, I acknowledge there will always be risk in trading forex but everyone needs to build up their accounts to a substantial level before they can start drawing regular income, there should NEVER be the risk of losing ALL your funds on any one particular trade or basket of trades. What happened here with Outside the Box High Risk 2 was a total disregard to risk and money management.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 06, 2019, 10:47:57 AM
@side-walk star / Dan / and others

I know that sick feeling for sure.
Go back and look at my other drawdowns and mistakes, they have been well documented and recovered from.
Sometimes they don't take as long as you might think to recover from.  It is the resilience and positive outlook and balanced perspective that is most important to keep going after learning tough lessons like this one.

Also keep in mind that I had just booked a stellar 169 pip trade on AUDUSD during the flash crash AND.....
Many accounts of retail traders and fund managers had just been either blown or majorly damanaged by margin calls at the time of the flash crash only just 24 hours before I set this current trade.  They lost much bigger accounts on their main accounts at low risk and brokers have told me that many people are in trouble as a result of that day.

The significant challenge with forex (and most all types of trading) is that you don't know when the next BIG geopolitical event or Central Bank event will affect your open trades, and even setting stop loss orders sometimes does not insulate you from much higher losses than you had set in advance.

I wouldn't immediately say that trust is broken, as I made all the right disclaimers ahead of time.
This was more a matter of taking too much risk (on my part and on your part) at a time when AUDUSD had broken major support levels and had a high probability of respecting those levels of support-turning-resistance on a re-test.
Oftentimes, once there is this much pessimism in a currency pair and related risk assets (equities) these strong trends will continue.
You cannot look backwards and claim that you knew your technical analysis would have been more productive, as this is mere speculation and conjecture.  It is best to take responsibility as soon as possible and get right back into the arena again and learn the tough lessons that this situation brings with it.

All of this is part of determining what risk to take, and then be happy with the profits when they come a majority of the time, and then also deal with the losses when they come not so frequently as you can see with all my other strategies.
I was taking more risk with this new strategy because I am testing it LIVE, which is the only real way to know how something is responding to real market forces and your own judgment / skill.

You may know that sick feeling, Gregory. But at least you have made plenty of money from the subscribers, whereas we've all lost a significant amount of our capital in exchange for the $99 per month investment.  ???

All I will say is that it seemed fairly certain to me that AUDUSD price would continue upward from where your original and  large sell order was placed. With the daily chart printing the mother of all bullish pin bars at multi-year lows it was obvious a large amount of stop loss orders had been taken out and that the upward momentum would likely follow through.

A pin bar of this magnitude at a major demand zone is technical analysis 101, basic stuff in my view. To think that price would then break below support and retest it as new resistance is retail trader thinking, something banks and institutions rely upon for liquidity, as was demonstrated here. This was a multi-year low major demand zone. Price was not going down further at this stage.

Sure, price may yet come back down to retest the area and produce a 'double-bottom' or even attempt to put in a new low in the coming weeks. However, this particular move was ill-judged in my opinion and to keep adding to your losing position instead of switching to the buy side of the trade seemed to just dig us deeper into a hole (and eventually blow up the account). I personally do not think it is hindsight saying this could have been avoided. I'm sure some will disagree.

I acknowledge you have recovered from previous drawdowns and that you have a good track record with your trading, which is impressive. However, one must be able to quickly change their strategy when the original trade setup is no longer valid and you didn't demonstrate your ability to do this, you kept adding more sell orders hoping for the best and compounding the damage. Not only that, the decreasing lot sizes were going to have very little impact in helping to recover the position. Cutting losses at this point may have been the best bet. Not something any of us like to do but very occasionally a necessary evil.

Being that it was still the first week of trading after the holiday period, with relatively low volume... AND also NFP week, keeping risk at a minimum should have been at the forefront of every traders mind (myself included). I guess we all couldn't wait to jump back in after the Christmas break.  ::)

I personally would add a note on the High Risk 2 description, clearly stating that this is an experimental live account. People are so used to reading "Don't use funds you cannot afford to lose" in forex trading, this warning goes largely ignored. I hold my hands up and admit I made a mistake connecting 'real money' to this signal but then I didn't expect the account to blow-up within just 24 hours. Very bad timing and risk management on my part.

If my personal trading continues to yield good results, I may well start offering my own signal towards the end of 2019. Early testing is producing steady and consistent results, with good risk management also. At some point I would like to offer a managed account but not until I have 24 months proven track record. Watch this space.

Anyway, this has been a disaster and I don't think there's much more I can add to this thread but here's to us all turning a decent profit in 2019 and best of luck going forward with your Outside the Box signals.

All the best,

Dan.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 07, 2019, 01:16:41 AM
Outside the Box --- December 2018 Performance


The Max Drawdown
has now been improved so that both PIP HUNTERS and also PROFIT % HUNTERS will be more interested in this strategy



Over and over again, what is proven to me to be the most important, is to shake off momentary losses so that miserable experience can teach me what to avoid in the future so that my strategy can reach higher levels of Capital --- this has always been my focus, and I have had to endure much criticism and failure to get this far.  That is why I have chosen to be more active on social FX trading forums and platforms, so that I could document my journey and now no one can make false claims about my history, because I can then refer them back to numerous occasions in the past regarding:

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 11, 2019, 07:03:48 AM


Over and over again, what is proven to me to be the most important, is to shake off momentary losses so that miserable experience can teach me what to avoid in the future so that my strategy can reach higher levels of Capital --- this has always been my focus, and I have had to endure much criticism and failure to get this far.  That is why I have chosen to be more active on social FX trading forums and platforms, so that I could document my journey and now no one can make false claims about my history, because I can then refer them back to numerous occasions in the past regarding:

  • verified track record of statistics on trading performance
  • how I manage client issues
  • how I manage drawdown periods
  • how I communicate my risk management / trade plan
  • how well I can adhere to these stated plans

Greg - i felt obliged to come here and say my peice as i am affected by your signal thru another trade following platform. I would like to echo Dan`s sentiments exactly. You should have known better than to Sell at multiyear lows after a flash crash filled the market with liquidity after taking out all of the shorts. You keep stating your a maths professor - well its not all maths mate - theres plenty of important stuff you need to consider in order to be a responsible trader that has the right to make income from trading other peoples money. Its not your risk afterall - well very little.

You have not adhered to your plan - you have moved the stop loss higher and higher over the last several days and you keep opening more shorts which are adding to the loosing positions. Any fool with a grid or martingale EA can trade in a similar manner. But what you are doing is lunacy! Youve already lost investors over $57,000 on zulu trade and still have 700pips in drawdown. When these stop out, the damage will be enormous. You initally stated that your SL would be around 125-140pips - now its gone -200 pips and you move it again! You did not communicate this in your risk manaagement communications - you keep moving the goal posts and try to justify it with all sorts of reasons - but can you listen to yourself?

This basket has wiped out 2 months of hard work from my trading. The losses should have half of what they were if you stuck to the plan and communicated the fact that you like to move stops higher and higher - i probably would have never followed your signal in the first place if you had been completely up front about this behavior.

So i hope that you do learn from this - the 5 points you noted above - your still not fulfilling all of them very well at all and i dont think your ready to manage other peoples money...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 11, 2019, 10:31:01 AM
Wiping out two months of trading is not so bad for a heavy unprecedented drawdawn. That's really fine in the forex world.

Those who stick to every single detail in their trading rules are the ones who can't adapt to market changes.

@outoftgebox, I suggest you don't bother with comments on your trading and just focus on your trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 11, 2019, 11:14:41 AM
And The damage keeps getting worse...
investor profit now -$94k on zulutrade alone. This 1 bad basket that you wont let go of... And you have once again moved your stops out yet again!

You have already exceeded the max risk profile you explained to your investors - why do you ignore your plan?

Another risky behavior that got you into this mess is that you attempted to take some more short scalps along the way - when these went into the red you held all of those too and keep compounding your losses! now youve exceeded you highest ever drawdown and are you even looking at the candles? do you even know what price action is? green candle, after green candle, after green candle on H1 H4 D1 etc etc yet you keep adding shorts???? There is absolutely no sign of price action indicating a reversal.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on January 11, 2019, 11:51:39 AM
Wiping out two months of trading is not so bad for a heavy unprecedented drawdawn. That's really fine in the forex world.

Those who stick to every single detail in their trading rules are the ones who can't adapt to market changes.

@outoftgebox, I suggest you don't bother with comments on your trading and just focus on your trading.

@Megabot Team Watching your comments very closely. A little respect when posting on other Vendors' threads is warranted. You were warned previously on Forex Manager thread.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 11, 2019, 01:04:51 PM
Wiping out two months of trading is not so bad for a heavy unprecedented drawdawn. That's really fine in the forex world.

Those who stick to every single detail in their trading rules are the ones who can't adapt to market changes.

@outoftgebox, I suggest you don't bother with comments on your trading and just focus on your trading.

@Megabot Team Watching your comments very closely. A little respect when posting on other Vendors' threads is warranted. You were warned previously on Forex Manager thread.
Nothing disrespectful here in my comment

Just because you lost money and become too irritated does not grant you the power threaten other people.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on January 11, 2019, 01:40:55 PM
Wiping out two months of trading is not so bad for a heavy unprecedented drawdawn. That's really fine in the forex world.

Those who stick to every single detail in their trading rules are the ones who can't adapt to market changes.

@outoftgebox, I suggest you don't bother with comments on your trading and just focus on your trading.

@Megabot Team Watching your comments very closely. A little respect when posting on other Vendors' threads is warranted. You were warned previously on Forex Manager thread.
Nothing disrespectful here in my comment

Just because you lost money and become too irritated does not grant you the power threaten other people.

It wasn't a threat, it was a friendly warning. You seem to take liberties in fellow members threads. It is his thread and you are telling him not to post comments. I see that as disrespectful. Where did i say I lost money? I do not trade this strategy FYI.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 11, 2019, 02:20:25 PM
What are you talking about?!!!

I was defending him in my comment.
And I suggested that he focus on his trading rather than paying attention to what emotional investors have to say about him. I can't see anything wrong with that.

FYI, I Am not a vendor
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on January 11, 2019, 03:46:46 PM
Guys it seems easy for everyone to just say in hindsight "it was obvious to not do this, at this time". When you look back. If that was the case, why did you not close your trade? The reason he is doing it when you aren't, is because he is not trading the same way you would.

If you think your way is better, then you are obviously way better off doing it your own way. But ask yourself, how often will you be right vs this guy? It seems to me that otbhk gets it right most of the time, and recovers when he doesn't.

No one posts on his thread here on the winning days to say "I would not have done what you did there, but you were right and made money, so thanks!". Of course people only will post these comments when there is a loss. In a loss everyone seems to knows better. Never on profitable trades though. Out of the manual traders I know or see, I don't see any ones better here to be fair (with more proof in a track record).



Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on January 11, 2019, 05:20:50 PM
If you're not comfortable with this signal, turn down the risk until you are. Look at his myfxbook this past year. My results mirror his exactly. He doesn't trade like I would, but that's why I subscribe to his signal. His manual trading is better than mine. NOTHING I have (EA's, signals, systems, etc) has had this kind of result over the last year. Look at his history, see how he trades, and make your decision based on that. I tried to microanalyze his style and got myself all worked up over his system in the beginning, and I nearly walked away from it. Then I just let it run and had a great year.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 11, 2019, 09:58:24 PM
If you're not comfortable with this signal, turn down the risk until you are. Look at his myfxbook this past year. My results mirror his exactly. He doesn't trade like I would, but that's why I subscribe to his signal. His manual trading is better than mine. NOTHING I have (EA's, signals, systems, etc) has had this kind of result over the last year. Look at his history, see how he trades, and make your decision based on that. I tried to microanalyze his style and got myself all worked up over his system in the beginning, and I nearly walked away from it. Then I just let it run and had a great year.

To reiterate - its not about the loss - which i stopped at a modest level and was following at a small risk because i was new to his signal and didnt trust it yet - Someone claiming 15years FX experience but only showing 22months on myfxbook didnt add up so i was cautious.

Its about his behavior or "style" as you put it. He has not stuck to his plan, has repeatedly moved stops on this basket from an initial -125pips to over `-250pips, and keeps adding more risk to losing positions after he explicity says in his strategy description "after -125pips my losers have a low probability of returning into profit". This all points to someone who is getting sloppy or losing control but not following their plan or strategy. In the process of all this he blew up his high risk account and anyone folowing that such as Dan above.

SO whilst you had a good year for the last year - doesnt mean you will survive the next year... especially with this kind of behavior showing.

I wish you the best of luck, but urge you to exercise extreme caution going forward due to the nature of how these signal accounts reward their providers.
That is - once a signal provider has a large following and they are generating significant income from opening positions- they can get sloppy as it doesnt matter if their performance drops - they keep making money whilst they are executing trades and the followers are there which makes them look good. So they start living the high life and get complacent.... Complacency leads to sloppiness, and accounts start to blow up. All it takes is 1 or 2 big mistakes, and investors are hung out to dry. Ive seen this many times on trade following platforms. Be careful.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 12, 2019, 09:47:05 AM
And The damage keeps getting worse...
investor profit now -$94k on zulutrade alone. This 1 bad basket that you wont let go of... And you have once again moved your stops out yet again!

Its about his behavior or "style" as you put it. He has not stuck to his plan, has repeatedly moved stops on this basket from an initial -125pips to over `-250pips, and keeps adding more risk to losing positions after he explicity says in his strategy description "after -125pips my losers have a low probability of returning into profit". This all points to someone who is getting sloppy or losing control but not following their plan or strategy.

1. @grouper
Recently I changed the way I have learned to trade by setting stop loss orders on my trades 24/7.
This was because one platform gives me a lower trading score if I do not utilise SL orders.  Even when I know many other traders at top institutions and investment firms do not use them -- only on rare instances.
This then backfired on me this week on the overnight "quiet hour" of low liquidity that many Liquidity Providers experience between 4:45 pm and 5:15 especially.  The quote for AUDUSD widened by 35 pips at our LP, and the ask price hit the stop loss on one of my positions.  This cannot be avoided unless you set stop losses very far from the current price, which then changes the risk/reward and statistics of my trade entries and frequency of finding those entries.  So now once again I have taken SL's off for more than this reason.
The main reason I do not trade with SL is because I must see the Corrrelated Cross Asset Patterns, the price action around a certain level (the velocity and volume of the price action movement). and whether stop losses had been hunted at the time where I know in my head the price is nearing where I would either like to hedge or to partially close a position.  Until you have watched price action for 10 to 15 years you might not have this type of familiarity with how these things repeat themselves


2. @grouper
You are right.  The MFE/MAE on my trade history metrics point to the 125 to 150 pip area as the place I should re-consider my original trade idea for a particular setup.  It is a consideration, not a command though.  You must also consider what time it is, what deception tactics have been employed in the current session, and how other correlated assets like Gold, EURUSD, DAX, US30, xxxJPY, and cross pairs such as AUDNZD and EURAUD are behaving at that particular time. 
This skill is not able to be written into code or law or rule.
This skill is not able to be automated.
The skill is better employed by a seasoned trader with a human mind, but the drawback is that this type of style presents challenges when you have to explain it to people who want to micro-analyze your day to day trading.
FX Viper said this.  And eventually it drove him away from provision of trade copy strategies to small investors.


Many days in the past 22 months (and beforehand when I was trading off the record with smaller more experimental accounts) I have reflected about how to best approach the FX markets with an edge, with proper risk management, and with the right mindset and attitude.
Some days I just don't have time to respond (nor should I) to the multiplicity of "immediate" concerns even though I would like to do so.  I have answers and if you look back I have been very open and prompt with my responses all throughout other drawdown periods even when people have chosen to take a counterproductive, aggressive, and blaming position in a public forum where I have put myself out there under the spotlight of scrutiny.

I sit back and chat with other traders who've already travelled this path I am currently on.  We talk about how to best handle our trading, analysis, keeping up on important ever-changing news events, data releases, managing risk --- at the same time as attending to our daily family responsibilites, chores, and unexpected sickness, loss, and problems in our own personal lives.

The wisdom I have learnt is this:

1 - Until I had proven that I could be consistently profitable in my own trading, I really should not critique or bring shame on another trader without being tactful and polite.  Considering what the effects of my public words would be on people involved other than myself.  It takes humility, patience, and hard work.

2 - My strategy is not set in stone. I have covered this here before and have taken my share of accusations, only to keep profiting and keep recovering from the inevitable drawdowns.  The is why I chose the name "Outside the Box", because I saw that the chaotic and not-easily-predictable Forex Market had brought me more loss and failure for me personally if I approached it this way. Instead I have set down "usual" guidelines that help direct me in my thinking and these I have shared with others so they can at least begin to understand what I think and what I do.
** When my dad is driving, I sometimes wish I could be driving myself, but I know in the end it is pointless to claim that I have a better understanding and competence than someone who has driven quite successfully for many more years than I have.  If I would like to drive, then I must buy my own car, take care of it, and drive for myself.
** My ex-wife also did not agree with my way of living and the goals I wanted to value and prioritise.  Sadly this meant to her that we must separate and not collaborate or share life together anymore.  Regardless of how much I wanted to continue collaborating.

3 - What is most important is OVERALL RISK.  Taken as a percentage of average profit of my system over a longer period.  My drawdown sits at about 5% after having booked 2% profit this month already.  This is acceptable to me especially when my systems have all proven that they consistently make 5% per month -- with medium risk and high risk 2x and 4x those figures.  And YES EVEN WHEN I "VIOLATE" my own rules.  You say "what?? you are crazy!"  Well then why has it made me exceptional returns and interested high net worth individuals and institutions after a two year period? There are guidelines, not rules.  If you want linear rules, with no flex or soft edges, then you may want to trade for yourself and please show me your track record over a 2 year period when you get there.

4 - Humility and vulnerability.  I have accepted my "failures" as steps towards overall success.  I am not perfect, but in Forex that doesn't matter.  As long as you make your successes longer and a more powerful compounding force than the tough times and the learning times.

5 - Keep going.  No matter what.  Find the inner strength to insulate yourself from what others say or do but instead do not be driven or manipulated by them.  Live your life and accept the results that come from your own thinking and heart.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 14, 2019, 10:11:35 AM

FX Viper said this.  And eventually it drove him away from provision of trade copy strategies to small investors.


Its interesting and very fitting that you draw correlation between yourself and FX Viper - now look at what has happened to him. You will follow in his footsteps unless you change your attitude towards trading - this was the entire point of me coming here and saying my piece.

What you are doing in the way you are trading is very risky - 22 months of history does not mean your a professional guru or that your not bankrupt next year taking everyone with you, like so many others before you. You take scalps for 9 pips avg profit then let bad trades run  more than 250pips into the red, holding and praying. Its a recipe for disaster. Its only a matter of time until one day you will be left with a basket of 9 trades and -600 pips per position with no way out as the macroeconomic momentum has already shifted for the next long term trend lasting many years. Sure you could hold them long term - but now the investors margin is completely tied up for any additional trading and the accounts are either frozen by the drawdown or hit MC. Funds are unable to be withdrawn without accepting the huge unrealised PnL. But hey - you still got your 92% win rate right?

Now if you were trading like this for yourself privately- then hey - thats your business and people should be able to do as they please! No worries at all.

But when your trading other peoples money, making money off other peoples  risk - you should assume a duty of care to trade responsibly and not allow your positions to end up in a place like that... i simply want you to acknowledge this moving forward.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 14, 2019, 01:06:07 PM

Its interesting and very fitting that you draw correlation between yourself and FX Viper - now look at what has happened to him. You will follow in his footsteps unless you change your attitude towards trading - this was the entire point of me coming here and saying my piece.

What you are doing in the way you are trading is very risky - 22 months of history does not mean your a professional guru or that your not bankrupt next year taking everyone with you, like so many others before you. You take scalps for 9 pips avg profit then let bad trades run  more than 250pips into the red, holding and praying. Its a recipe for disaster. Its only a matter of time until one day you will be left with a basket of 9 trades and -600 pips per position with no way out as the macroeconomic momentum has already shifted for the next long term trend lasting many years. Sure you could hold them long term - but now the investors margin is completely tied up for any additional trading and the accounts are either frozen by the drawdown or hit MC. Funds are unable to be withdrawn without accepting the huge unrealised PnL. But hey - you still got your 92% win rate right?

Now if you were trading like this for yourself privately- then hey - thats your business and people should be able to do as they please! No worries at all.

But when your trading other peoples money, making money off other peoples  risk - you should assume a duty of care to trade responsibly and not allow your positions to end up in a place like that... i simply want you to acknowledge this moving forward.

I was referring to FX Viper only to say that he also was annoyed with the time he had to take writing updates to subs when it really isn't productive.  I did not compare myself to him.
And besides, he manages quite a big fund with his trading company, and he made very good money from trade copying and PAMM/MAM too.  What is wrong with that?  I see his drawdown, and yes I do not agree with that.  But then again, look at my Pip Drawdown chart on myfxbook and it is nowhere near the numbers he has.
Your words here draw conclusions that are not completely accurate.
FX is very sensitive to analysis of data, backtesting a strategy, and performance metrics.

Look back at my track record.
The drawdown percentages have gradually diminished, not gone upwards.  Pips have very little to do with overall profitability.  they only matter when trade copiers want to copy your trading with no regard for the historical Risk Management performance and MFE/MAE.  If copiers use up all their available margin then they were the ones who either have much lower leverage or they added other trades or increased the risk.  This is not my problem at all.

Believe me I am very attentive to what needs my attention.  And to be honest, I only respond to people like you to correct your mistakes of thinking here on a public forum. 
Bankrupt?  What can of loser thinking is that really?  Speak those words over yourself, I certainly don't accept that.
Those 250 pip negative trades, how many of them are there?  Out of 1100 trades?  This is the point!!
Don't you understand the mathematics??
If you win 94% of your trades at 10 pips average per winning trade, you can afford to lose 1 or 2% at 150 to 200 pips, yes.  The other losing trades are for less pips.  This is a winning strategy, just look at the low risk, medium risk, and high risk track records.
And again, if you are so knowledgeable and skillful as a trader, then pls show your track record.
It is this simple.
And I have won many happy subs and investors, so just because you are disgruntled does not mean there are significant numbers of others who have copied my strategy for longer than 3 months who are disgruntled too.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on January 14, 2019, 05:20:14 PM
So it looks like hes up 2% with -5% floating drawdown. So down -3% overall equity. That seems hardly anything to be worried about for what you get on the profit side and how often. Investors should be prepared for a lot worse than that really unless you reduce the risk.

Groper it is quite clear that his trading style would be classified as "scalping".

This generally means tight TPs and wide SLs. This is pretty well known. You make it sound like this is somehow a surprise? lolol.  :P

If it is not your cup of tea, the better option would be to not participate and find something that is better suited to your taste (maybe something with tight stops and wide tps - basically the opposite to scalping). Instead of trying to turn this style in to something that it is not. You either accept their style (and the risks associated with it) or look for another one. No point in trying to have the trader morph his style in to YOUR style. Otherwise he would be trying to do this for everyone and everyone has a different way of doing it.

Having watched a few manual traders come and go over the years (like viper) it is usually the ego that ends up getting them in trouble and bickering with investors who want trading to go "their way". The trader then gets a persona that they need to maintain in public and that can have some bad consequences. I hope that doesn't unfold here.

Also just keep in mind that this is a manual strategy. There are no hard rules like an EA. Generally this is why I don't like manual traders. This isn't my preferred style either.  But I understand what it is. And accept that. It seems that there are a few people who when given the flexibility to do their own unique thing seem to be able to consistently make money.

Bottom line is this I guess. This is clearly a manual (no firm rules like an EA, it is more reactive), scalping (small tps and wide SLs) strategy.

Accept it for what it is, and the risks associated with that. Most of us understand these. Stop trying to pretend it is something else, or mold it in to something it is not. If in doing so you are comfortable with the risk, then it may be for you. If not, thankfully we live in a world with more than one option!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 14, 2019, 07:38:57 PM
This trader did in fact have much deeper drawdowns in the past where he has recovered. Moreover, just because he is having a drawdown now on YOUR account, does not mean that you should show up on public forums and bash him!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 14, 2019, 11:43:57 PM
Moreover, just because he is having a drawdown now on YOUR account, does not mean that you should show up on public forums and bash him!

This is by far the worst thing about being a strategy provider online in a public way.
This year I hope I can go incognito and totally private, but for now I still have to bear those who are too emotional, too focused on the short term, and not focused enough on the larger picture and what a system achieves over 6 months to a year.
Just like with professional portfolio managers.
They would be stoked to grow their clients funds annually at the growth percentage of my three trade copying strategies.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on January 15, 2019, 12:50:14 PM
i think that you are doing a good job bro just focus and don't mind the negativity
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 15, 2019, 11:06:56 PM
Im not here to bash anyone, ive simply seen too many traders that go really well for a period, then loose it all and unfortunately taking many investors with them. Ive seen it time and time again and i have a feel for what to look for.

 Theres no doubt that up to date, as it stands today, your strategy is profitable - i acknowledge that and i also acknowledge that youve done well so far and i hope that you keep going well -  the absolute last thing i want to see is you fail.

Just looking at the behavior, i see it as risky - that is all. Im not saying is unprofitable, just excessively risky when you go into DD and your refusal to acknowledge a change in trend like this most recent one. I know the beauty of hindsight and all that - but the way you kept adding loosing positions despite zero price action to support your descisions was mind boggling. I understand that you remained bearish looking at the higher TF charts ans still anticipate a move lower going forward - i get it. But this kind of behavior that one day kills traders - not letting go.

 If i can simply make you think about things and at least consider what your doing then ive done what i came here to do. As for me - you dont have to worry about me - im doing just fine. Unfortunately my last 3 months trading performance would look much better if it wasnt for the positions from your signal which i closed when your behavior indicated to me that you werent following the plan you laid out with regard to SL. (yes i know you cant accept responsibility for that and still hold them in DD);
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 16, 2019, 01:49:15 AM
Im not here to bash anyone, ive simply seen too many traders that go really well for a period, then loose it all and unfortunately taking many investors with them. Ive seen it time and time again and i have a feel for what to look for.
Just looking at the behavior, i see it as risky - that is all.  But this kind of behavior that one day kills traders - not letting go.
If i can simply make you think about things and at least consider what your doing then ive done what i came here to do.

1. Your patronising remarks are not well accepted.  I also have studied obsessively the many traders and their common flaws who have ended up damaging their track records, careers, clients accounts, and reputations.  I don't need people (do you know how many have already done the exact same thing you are currently doing? "There is nothing new under the sun"  So don't assume you are the only soul with this noble prudence) coming here telling me what to do, how to be cautious, unless they do it in a constructive, edifying way.  People just don't get this, because they are not the ones working 80 hours each week and then fielding 100's of untactful criticisms in each drawdown.

2. I let go when my key indicators line up to tell me to let go.  These include:  RSI, Ichimoku, Stochastic, Moving average, MACD, candlestick patterns, support/resistance, and of course the numerous timeframes and distance measured in standard deviation from the Open Price.

3. Next time you get the urge to caution me, please please please understand that I am thinking the exact same thing you are -- along with 50 other things.  It's the life of a fund manager.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: littlemax on January 16, 2019, 09:18:52 AM
i think that you are doing a good job bro just focus and don't mind the negativity

Also a happy follower, thank you Greg.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 16, 2019, 09:54:20 AM
Im not here to bash anyone, ive simply seen too many traders that go really well for a period, then loose it all and unfortunately taking many investors with them. Ive seen it time and time again and i have a feel for what to look for.
Just looking at the behavior, i see it as risky - that is all.  But this kind of behavior that one day kills traders - not letting go.
If i can simply make you think about things and at least consider what your doing then ive done what i came here to do.

1. Your patronising remarks are not well accepted.  I also have studied obsessively the many traders and their common flaws who have ended up damaging their track records, careers, clients accounts, and reputations.  I don't need people (do you know how many have already done the exact same thing you are currently doing? "There is nothing new under the sun"  So don't assume you are the only soul with this noble prudence) coming here telling me what to do, how to be cautious, unless they do it in a constructive, edifying way.  People just don't get this, because they are not the ones working 80 hours each week and then fielding 100's of untactful criticisms in each drawdown.

2. I let go when my key indicators line up to tell me to let go.  These include:  RSI, Ichimoku, Stochastic, Moving average, MACD, candlestick patterns, support/resistance, and of course the numerous timeframes and distance measured in standard deviation from the Open Price.

3. Next time you get the urge to caution me, please please please understand that I am thinking the exact same thing you are -- along with 50 other things.  It's the life of a fund manager.

Im glad i came here and had the opportunity to chat with you. I can see your arrogance shining through and it confirms your behavioral predisposition to what i already suspected from observing your trading.
Best of luck.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 16, 2019, 01:02:07 PM
Im glad i came here and had the opportunity to chat with you. I can see your arrogance shining through and it confirms your behavioral predisposition to what i already suspected from observing your trading.
Best of luck.

You seem to be disgruntled and not calm.
Now DD is already being diminished.... 4% from high water mark with 2.25% booked profit in January already.
That equals = NEGATIVE 1.75% on the month and it's not finished yet.
I am resilient and that is why I have succeeded in Forex.  I learn from all comments, even the ones that are rude and not constructive.
Copy traders give me the control because they don't want to deal with the day-to-day management, sitting at the desk, and the emotional up's and down's.  You should re-consider why I have been able to multiply my capital and the capital of many of my long-term, stable investors.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: rsmereka on January 16, 2019, 07:35:36 PM
Today (at rollover) is the completion of three months with your Zero Spread signal from SignalStart,

I am a very happy subscriber, you are doing an excellent job. Don't let the detractor's dissuade you. Yes, the floating DD is high at times but is not dangerous and I can still sleep at night.

I published my stats on MyFXBook (even though I am a rabid FXBlue proponent). The MyFXBook link is in my signature and the FXBlue link is: https://www.fxblue.com/users/rsmereka

Note that the MyFXBook page has a custom start date reflecting the start of your signal.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on January 16, 2019, 08:44:33 PM
I don't know why people are fixated on RR ratios alone. There is the win rate in the expectancy equation too. To have positive expectancy, one needs a high RR ratio or a high win rate. Either will do. Greg achieves his success with the latter. So what's wrong with that?

I briefly subscribed to OTB in 2016 but had second thoughts due to the low RR ratio. Had I stayed, he would have doubled my account. Instead I watched Steady Capture and a commercial EA decimate my accounts while Goldstar and FX Viper tied up my capital in endless DD for months.

I'm now back with OTB (high risk signal) and am a happy camper. Since Oct 2018, he has added 66% to my account. For my part, I now run one signal per account at 1x risk and make regular withdrawals. Just as Greg suggests. And at no time do I fear that my account is going to blow. 

To Greg:
Your trading rocks and I'd like to thank you for your hard work, commitment to your subs, your communication and transparency.
 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 17, 2019, 12:54:39 AM
Got this subscriber message today and really wanted to share it with others, not because it is the only positive remarks of support I get, but more because it highlights some under-emphasized aspects of Forex that I know I have learnt but others have to endure long enough to learn -- and sometimes do not.

----------------------------------------- received 17 January on ZuluTrade social wall

Hello OutsidetheBoxHK and followers,

Forex is risky and to follow a Forex Trader is risky twice. That means, that followers should have a good reason to follow. One reason is : Need of money. Other reason is : They failed in making it on their own. – When you follow a signal provider, you admitt to need his help. He should help you to dive with your capital in the market and to come out richer than when you went in. The market is a human made phenomenon. That means that you have to move recognizing and respecting the patterns of the market, but remaining still a human beeing. Not a robot. So be always ready to be free to change something on your way. It’s life. Somehow predictible but not really. So if we trust a trader to follow, we decide to follow a human beeing with his rules and with his freedom to look at the life at what it is in every moment. Life is not always a straight line in front of us. Sometimes it changes direction. We should always be free to take the new direction and to accept new conditions. Otherwise you will run against the wall. That means you should not trade at your capital limits, but dispose a good margin of sleeping funds to be able to get your act together when conditions change. Humans ego doesn’t admit easily own mistakes and the obvious move is therefore to project the own inadequacy and defiency onto the signal provider. Yes, many SP’s are not that good, but it is always your own choice to follow them. Forex is like life. Not predictible 100%. OutsidetheBoxHK handles very well this aspect. He is a researcher. Very serious. Learn your lessons with him if you want and if you can. He even reserves a lot of time to comunicate with his followers and give explanations. And not only on ZuluTrade. A fulltime job. If he wouldn’t do it the right way, he couldn’t earn his money with trading. Sorry to be long, but this is my humble opinion. Obviously with all the risk to be wrong. Greetings and thanks.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on January 17, 2019, 08:58:22 AM
Hi,

I echo the postive feedback for OTB and the hard work he is doing.

DD's are not nice but if correct due diligence is done, one will see that this is inherent in this strategy.

If one does not like this, then the product is not for them and maybe reconsider alternatives.

Proper money management will allow for such events, allowing the good trades to continue in the meantime.

Keep up the good work, Greg.

Cheers,

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 17, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
It should come as no surprise to anybody invested in Outsidethebox in one way or another that there will be DD periods, that he will sell lows and buy highs etc. It's all there in the history for everybody to see. If you don't like that then you should not invest period. Regardless of his results.

If you're OK with the way he trades then there's a good chance you'll be making money, perhaps even lots of it.

My only problem is you don't really know what you're risking because he doesn't want to be bound by such rules. And it's important because (1) I'm not OK with risking too much and (2) I'm restricted by ESMA rules. In theory ESMA should not be a problem as long as he stays roughly within what he said his maximum expected exposure is. But there's not a lot of margin left so I'm playing it safe with reduced risk.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 18, 2019, 01:42:04 AM
Greg - you say that your happy to listen to constructive criticism but do not appreciate  blatant bashing - thats fair enough, my intention is not the latter.

But ive just observed another mystifying trade by you... You held EA long position over 3 nights - inc triple negative swap night -which is substantial on EA pair, then stopped it out at -140pips. At this point - its just a bad trade, we all have them, not ideal but thats life sometimes.

Then immediately after it stopped out - 3hours later you open it again same direction!!! WHY? All you are doing is wasting money for your investors on brokerage ! either leave the original position open and let it run or stop out and move on... can you help us understand what it is you are thinking? Or is it simply an EA doing this without thought?

Trying to be constructive here...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 18, 2019, 03:09:06 AM
Greg - you say that your happy to listen to constructive criticism but do not appreciate  blatant bashing - thats fair enough, my intention is not the latter.
But ive just observed another mystifying trade by you... You held EA long position over 3 nights - inc triple negative swap night -which is substantial on EA pair, then stopped it out at -140pips. At this point - its just a bad trade, we all have them, not ideal but thats life sometimes.
Then immediately after it stopped out - 3hours later you open it again same direction!!! WHY? All you are doing is wasting money for your investors
Trying to be constructive here...

comments are constructive to me when they are proportional to overall profitability
* see screenshot for low risk

1. This trade was taken out due to spike that did not nullify the original trade setup
2. This trade on low risk (the account I assume you are referring to)  was 0.01 lots for a $10.16 loss on equity of $6491 = 0.156% loss
3. New trades were at 0.04 lots to recuperate loss with original trade setup
4. $3.52 and $3.37 profit  (one part still open)

5. On high risk account 0.01 lots for $10.12 loss on $2251 equity = 0.44% loss
6. New trade was 0.5 lots to recuperate loss with original trade setup
7. $38.47 profit .... giving triple the gain compared with the loss

(https://donnaforex.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F11sgflz.jpg&hash=584c05550b91fe2e1143f81ed2cf56cc)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 22, 2019, 02:28:08 AM
Here are some of my recent achievements

1- #3 rank Pro Trader at PsyQuation / AxiSelect
         https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard?tab=pro&page=1 (https://psyquation.com/app/#!/home/leaderboard?tab=pro&page=1)
     
2- High ranking D Score / "trending" system on Darwinex
         https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4/ (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4/)
3- won 3 consecutive Darwinia trading contests -- received allocations totaling $170,000 in past 3 months (on track for 4th)
4- #3 rank on HotForex copy leader board
         https://copy.hotforex.com/sv/en/strategy-list.html (https://copy.hotforex.com/sv/en/strategy-list.html)
5- high net worth investors investing in my Fund at MT Cook (one with $100,000)
         http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70 (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on January 22, 2019, 07:28:04 AM
Well done Greg.

Your approach of learning from mistakes and not giving up is paying dividends.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 27, 2019, 06:28:50 AM
I have personally helped at least 5 investors with margin / risk issues, and I have had groups of people wanting community updates on forums too ---- for low risk, medium risk, and high risk strategies that I manage.

I have much to report re the current situation ON THE HIGH RISK STRATEGY.  And yet I only have so much time to explain in different ways to different trade copiers at different risk levels with different amounts of equity.
The low risk strategy has booked 4.05% profit in January and currently stands at 4.5% open drawdown.

No matter how much I work or care for people and their investments, what limits me is that I only have so much control over what Trade Copiers are doing with their accounts, their equity, their management of open trades  and their own decisions that they make on their own without consulting me.  Sometimes clients choose to place additional trades of their own or trades from other signals they operate on the same trading account.  This affects the risk management for this account.

I advise to not close any position that I have opened.  I currently have approx 40% margin remaining, but if it is in my power I will not allow these losses to go much further. 

I have full confidence that our losses will recover, as I also have a $10,000 account for high risk, much skin in the game, much to lose, and potentially much to lose in my professional reputation and established track record.  I have most of my own funds invested at Low Risk.  Smaller risk capital invested at medium risk and same for high risk investment.  This also is what I believe is prudent and wise for my clients.


These situations drawdowns arise, as some behavior in the markets is less easy to predict, so after more reflection and more contact with other traders/bankers, I will let you all know early next week what my dynamic plan is.  The losses, at the very least can be minimised, which is always at the forefront of my mind, instead of acting irrationally and emotionally right at a market extreme when the momentum has nearly run its course and when the price action will revert to the mean AND continue with the larger downtrend that has been running for much longer and therefore has more weight.  The USD sometimes extends its gain or loss momentum at week's end, which it will then retrace at the start of trading in the next week.  This exact situation evolved most recently on week ending 4 December when AUDUSD last peaked out with extreme momentum and skewed sentiment.
Next week open should be gap down on both GBP and AUD. 


I have done countless hours of technical analysis that gives me conviction and confidence that my setup and current Total Open Exposure is still valid.  But I cannot report all of this in written form to so many individuals.  I must spend a majority of my attention and effort on trading, studying the markets, and executing my profession.  Some day I will have an assistant to do all this admin work, but right now I still do it all by myself.

Will give more multi-facted reasoning for my view next week on......

Donna Forex:  https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19712.0 (https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19712.0)
on Darwinex Community Forum:  https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56 (https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56)
on SimpleTrader Community Feed:   https://www.simpletrader.net/user.php?do=dashboard (https://www.simpletrader.net/user.php?do=dashboard)
on ForexSignals Forum:   https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund (https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund)
and on ZuluTrade Forum:  https://forum.zulutrade.com/t/outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4778/53 (https://forum.zulutrade.com/t/outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4778/53)



Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: IFFTrader on January 27, 2019, 07:08:32 AM
Thank you for the explanation. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 27, 2019, 12:38:44 PM
For high risk account do you think a topup now is needed? I have some spare money which I can use to topup my account to make it in a better situation that what it currently in.

I have personally helped at least 5 investors with margin / risk issues, and I have had groups of people wanting community updates on forums too ---- for low risk, medium risk, and high risk strategies that I manage.

I have much to report re the current situation ON THE HIGH RISK STRATEGY.  And yet I only have so much time to explain in different ways to different trade copiers at different risk levels with different amounts of equity.
The low risk strategy has booked 4.05% profit in January and currently stands at 4.5% open drawdown.

No matter how much I work or care for people and their investments, what limits me is that I only have so much control over what Trade Copiers are doing with their accounts, their equity, their management of open trades  and their own decisions that they make on their own without consulting me.  Sometimes clients choose to place additional trades of their own or trades from other signals they operate on the same trading account.  This affects the risk management for this account.

I advise to not close any position that I have opened.  I currently have approx 40% margin remaining, but if it is in my power I will not allow these losses to go much further. 

I have full confidence that our losses will recover, as I also have a $10,000 account for high risk, much skin in the game, much to lose, and potentially much to lose in my professional reputation and established track record.  I have most of my own funds invested at Low Risk.  Smaller risk capital invested at medium risk and same for high risk investment.  This also is what I believe is prudent and wise for my clients.


These situations drawdowns arise, as some behavior in the markets is less easy to predict, so after more reflection and more contact with other traders/bankers, I will let you all know early next week what my dynamic plan is.  The losses, at the very least can be minimised, which is always at the forefront of my mind, instead of acting irrationally and emotionally right at a market extreme when the momentum has nearly run its course and when the price action will revert to the mean AND continue with the larger downtrend that has been running for much longer and therefore has more weight.  The USD sometimes extends its gain or loss momentum at week's end, which it will then retrace at the start of trading in the next week.  This exact situation evolved most recently on week ending 4 December when AUDUSD last peaked out with extreme momentum and skewed sentiment.
Next week open should be gap down on both GBP and AUD. 


I have done countless hours of technical analysis that gives me conviction and confidence that my setup and current Total Open Exposure is still valid.  But I cannot report all of this in written form to so many individuals.  I must spend a majority of my attention and effort on trading, studying the markets, and executing my profession.  Some day I will have an assistant to do all this admin work, but right now I still do it all by myself.

Will give more multi-facted reasoning for my view next week on......

Donna Forex:  https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19712.0 (https://donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=19712.0)
on Darwinex Community Forum:  https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56 (https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56)
on SimpleTrader Community Feed:   https://www.simpletrader.net/user.php?do=dashboard (https://www.simpletrader.net/user.php?do=dashboard)
on ForexSignals Forum:   https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund (https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund)
and on ZuluTrade Forum:  https://forum.zulutrade.com/t/outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4778/53 (https://forum.zulutrade.com/t/outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4778/53)




Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 27, 2019, 01:54:19 PM
The system has reached a 62% DD last year on floating loss. Which means things could have had escalated a lot worst on normal settings.

So why on earth would you trade this system on a higher risk?!!

Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 27, 2019, 02:04:20 PM
I do not advise clients regarding whether they CAN or SHOULD allocate more capital for investment.
this decision is yours and yours alone.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if I understand your point, Nasdaq

Yes this high risk system has reached greater than 60% at one other time.
Greater than 40% two other times.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)
All of these drawdowns were recovered and new high water marks were achieved.
Even when I had many questioning my methods, my skill, and my merit.
the strategy combines mean reversion with trend following, and therefore it can recover drawdown losses relatively quickly as sentiment extremes and momentum extremes are retraced at least partially or entirely.

Basically, if you are criticizing the efficacy of this system, would you kindly present a more profitable track record for a system that you have developed?
Since March 2018, 10 months, it has captured 1511%.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 27, 2019, 02:45:35 PM
The 60% was also reached on the low risk settings, am I correct?

So tell me please what would have had happened if the prices kept going against you beyond the 60% ??

When do you decide taking a loss?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 27, 2019, 04:55:51 PM
I am asking if you are planning to topup your high risk account so we can take the same action if we want to follow your steps. If you are not planning to do so then I don’t think we should.

I do not advise clients regarding whether they CAN or SHOULD allocate more capital for investment.
this decision is yours and yours alone.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if I understand your point, Nasdaq

Yes this high risk system has reached greater than 60% at one other time.
Greater than 40% two other times.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)
All of these drawdowns were recovered and new high water marks were achieved.
Even when I had many questioning my methods, my skill, and my merit.
the strategy combines mean reversion with trend following, and therefore it can recover drawdown losses relatively quickly as sentiment extremes and momentum extremes are retraced at least partially or entirely.

Basically, if you are criticizing the efficacy of this system, would you kindly present a more profitable track record for a system that you have developed?
Since March 2018, 10 months, it has captured 1511%.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Balanced FX Portfolios on January 27, 2019, 05:25:16 PM
It is of my opinion that offering a high risk account of "High Risk 2" magnitude is plain irresponsible. It encourages less experienced traders/investors to sign up and copy trades at a risk level that should never even be considered in the 'normal' world of Forex trading.

Sure, you can put all the disclaimers you like in the description but it's not going to put people off who are looking to make a quick buck. I can't believe I signed up (and lost all my capital on that account), since I have been trading a number of years and have a proven, steady and consistent track record of my own.

A moment of complete madness copying Outside the Box High Risk 2 account and now I am paying the price. Quite simply the worst trading month of my career so far, due to my very poor decision to copy this account and the total incompetence of the person placing the trades.

Thankfully I was on the buy side of AUDUSD on my main account (like any sensible trader would have been, given the mountain of evidence that price would NOT drop further than this multi-year support).

Others will point out that Outside the Box accounts show excellent gains over the long-term and I cannot argue with that. However, this type of endless drawdown trading is not for me and there are much more efficient ways of producing similar results without tying up so much equity in ever-increasing margin requirement.

I wish Greg good luck with his trading and fund management but I'll be staying well clear based on the style of trading and what appears to be lack of real money management, in terms of small gains versus very large drawdowns. Almost anyone can scalp whilst in a losing position, I just wonder how long it will be before the s*** really hits the fan with this type of strategy.

I appreciate I open myself up to criticism by posting this publicly but it's my opinion and I lost a lot of money as a result of my crazy decision to copy the High Risk 2 account. Money I will now need to work hard at to recover using my own proven strategies.

Anyway, that's all I have to say. I wish everyone the best of luck with their trades in 2019.

Regards,

Dan.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 27, 2019, 08:58:22 PM
The 60% was also reached on the low risk settings, am I correct?

So tell me please what would have had happened if the prices kept going against you beyond the 60% ??

When do you decide taking a loss?

No.  The 62% drawdown in October 2018 was only high risk strategy of max open exposure of 7 lots per $10,000 equity.  The max drawdown ever on low risk strategy of 23 months has been 26%.

Even the way you ask questions is alarmist.
You haven't learned or do not want to restrain the words that you use.
All positive psychology, all positive attitude contributes to your success when you are doing high stress work that requires 100% focus.
The same is true for a surgeon doctor, off shore drilling roughneck, an elite soldier, a firefighter, an air traffic controller, or a emergency dispatcher.

You seem to think that I don't have a very good reasoning for the way I trade -- in the very way that you ask your question.  You have not learned to trust or respect the consistency of the strategy that I have developed..... which I would suggest means you should not invest.  Stay on the sidelines and watch and analyze until you are comfortable.

Answer: 

as far as the High Risk Strategy 2 mentioned in the previous posts, I have nearly recovered all lost profit from the HIgh Water Mark now. See image of the profit tab on MyFXBook page at link below.
I jump right back in once I have spotted something I can improve, and also if I see that much of a strategy was working, just needed to be tweaked.  I choose not to sulk -- instead encourage myself and prepare for battle once again.  This is why I am successful.

https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326 (https://www.myfxbook.com/portfolio/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326)

(https://i.ibb.co/cYf1nVr/High-Risk2.jpg)


As far as when I would cut losses... I have said this many times before in description sections of my strategies and in forum posts here, at Darwinex, at ZuluTrade, and at ForexSignals --- I do not accept "linear" rules without first assessing the environment in which the price action is occurring at the moment when the large drawdown occurs. I had to learn this the hard way many times over, when I had done it the "old fashioned" way that was being "taught" by many forex educators online -- and I saw that these were areas that the real trading elites/gurus were targeting to get the most liquidity for the price action to then accelerate in the direction I had originally thought it should be moving according to my technical analysis.  If I had held just 10 more pips, there was a longer term resistance / support level being tested, or some lower timeframes needed to finish their divergence and finally bounce down from 70 level RSI.
I constantly assess and re-assess what the sentiment positioning/balance is in the market -- what buyers and sellers are doing --- if it is prudent to begin scaling out of the original trade idea --- after reviewing correlated asset classes (gold, us30, ger30, etc), market maker behavior in that trading session, momentum / strength of price action, positioning/sentiment, level of key indicators, and key support and resistance location ---- then I will do so or hedge.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 27, 2019, 09:01:36 PM
Quote
this type of endless drawdown trading is not for me and there are much more efficient ways of producing similar results without tying up so much equity in ever-increasing margin requirement.

Ok show me this strategy of which you speak.
Show me a "more efficient way" of "producing SIMILAR results".  I want to see it.
I'm very careful with the words I speak, but it really annoys me when disgruntled forex traders come with their blaming / "oh I'm so concerned" attitudes like they have produced tremendous results by their way of thinking, doing, and trading.  Ok then show me.

I noticed that neither one of you want to produce your own track record for the public to see.
I keep encouraging you to not give up, not constantly focus on the negatives, but instead to concentrate on improving a little each day, and becoming more perfect at this craft.  You can do it.  I know it is possible because I have done it over the past 23 months.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 27, 2019, 10:12:03 PM
What worries me is not the extend of this DD (which was to be expected on the high risk account) but how quickly it escalated. We went from 10% to 60% in a matter of hours and it wasn't even such a strong move. Moves like this happen every month, more than once even.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 28, 2019, 02:24:01 AM
Greg - making a straw man argument about better or worse strategies than yours, as a defense for how successful yours is - offers a false sense of security.

A fellow Australian was using a grid system EA on his multiple accounts totaling 14.5 million... it was quite profitable for quite a long time with modest drawdown and he did well out of it for a while, although there was the usual periods of drawdown that go with all grid systems but it got particularly large towards the end at 40%. Then BOOM - MCd and lost 14M in 1 foul swoop on the yen flash crash. see one of his accounts here;

 https://www.myfxbook.com/members/BluePanther/4-all-i-do-is/2566543

Now has started a go fund me to raise money to recoup some of his losses from his gambling problem! That i dont agree with btw... What it proves is no matter how good an account looks - it doesnt guarantee its long term success if it has inherrant flaws such as opening more and more positions against the trend. There are a thousand other accounts which have done the same type of thing, so its a well known behavior or style of trading which triggers these kinds of catastrophes...

You were lucky to be on the right side of the flash crash btw Greg - emphasis on the word luck as noone (not even you) saw it coming.

Ive spoken to many EA developers over the years and not one grid system has proven to survive long term. Some survive much longer than others, but they all eventually succumb to the same fate and have inherent periods of prolonged drawdown which ties up margin, prevents additional trades whilst you wait it out, and prevents capitol from being withdrawn. Your strategy has the same kind of inherent problems and it makes it high risk - even the low risk version of it.
Whilst youve defended your track record by saying its remained profitable to the last 23months, many other blown accounts can say the same thing right up until the point they failed- why not take the steps to address how your accounts are protected the same kind of failure in future? What makes your system immune to following in the same footsteps of every other failed grid system?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 28, 2019, 03:16:29 AM
You are comparing apples and oranges.  His style of trading has very few similarities to my own.
I don't see 14 million dollars in his accounts.

1.  I profited on the flash crash with all my 3 strategies
2.  I am not automated EA, I am manual trader
3.  I have max stop loss around 125 to 150 pips (see MFE/MAE chart on Myfxbook)
4.  My low risk strategy is "grid lite"
5.  I usually trade light volume on xxxjpy pairs
6.  I trade light volume on volatile cross pairs (ie euraud, gbpaud, etc)
7.  I do not advertise and boast about being "professional gambler"
8.  of course, point taken, and that is why I have avoided these "catastrophes", only investing risk capital on isolated high risk strategies, protecting and preserving capital for many fund clients on low risk
9.  the flash crash, liquidity events involve risk OFF currency pairs only, and this is one reason my proclivity is to short risk pairs with this contingency in mind.  Look back at my track record.  Have been involved in none of these high risk, outlier, black swan events.
10. I have Rescue Level protection for capital losses over 40% in trade copying software.  I have spoken with partners of investment firms and brokerages about how to ensure the capital is protected.
11. Luck plays a very small part in trading, yes.  But I would not say that luck 100% was reason I profited from flash crash.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on January 28, 2019, 03:33:09 AM

here is the 14 million,

https://www.gofundme.com/yen-quotflash-crashquot-costs-14-million

seems legit to me. but gofund now for totally unhinged trading= fat chance.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 28, 2019, 07:39:09 AM
I am asking if you are planning to topup your high risk account so we can take the same action if we want to follow your steps. If you are not planning to do so then I don’t think we should.

I do not advise clients regarding whether they CAN or SHOULD allocate more capital for investment.
this decision is yours and yours alone.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if I understand your point, Nasdaq

Yes this high risk system has reached greater than 60% at one other time.
Greater than 40% two other times.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)
All of these drawdowns were recovered and new high water marks were achieved.
Even when I had many questioning my methods, my skill, and my merit.
the strategy combines mean reversion with trend following, and therefore it can recover drawdown losses relatively quickly as sentiment extremes and momentum extremes are retraced at least partially or entirely.

Basically, if you are criticizing the efficacy of this system, would you kindly present a more profitable track record for a system that you have developed?
Since March 2018, 10 months, it has captured 1511%.

He did top up his account.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 28, 2019, 08:27:14 AM

3.  I have max stop loss around 125 to 150 pips (see MFE/MAE chart on Myfxbook)


so 150 pips = 60% DD?

If not, then I guess your max stoploss is a lot more than 150 pips

Profiting on the flashcrash is only pure luck. Has nothing to do with how solid your strategy is.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 28, 2019, 08:46:56 AM
125 to 150 pips "soft" stop loss PER position
You haven't read my strategy description, so quite frankly this will be the last time I respond, as I don't think your intent is positive. 

Please read forums, descriptions, and my posts regarding how I deploy and manage "discretionary" stop losses as this has been a long standing topic of discussion both here and elsewhere in many forex forums where I post.

Please also look at my track record / trade history as you will find other averaging in core positions and secondary trades, once totaling 1000 pips drawdown which was recovered.

(https://i.ibb.co/fqjfppt/highrisk-DDpips.jpg)

I will say that I do not think you want to invest, therefore this is needless banter, and I will also say that I suggest you use your time making profits instead of picking thru my strategy when you don't want to profit from it.  I am busy trading and making positive contributions to my 1000 clients and investors.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 28, 2019, 09:33:21 AM
This is what I was asking him. A simple answer like yes I top up my account by #% will help the investors to know if they need to follow his actions.

It looks like the topup is around 20% of the old balance.

I am asking if you are planning to topup your high risk account so we can take the same action if we want to follow your steps. If you are not planning to do so then I don’t think we should.

I do not advise clients regarding whether they CAN or SHOULD allocate more capital for investment.
this decision is yours and yours alone.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if I understand your point, Nasdaq

Yes this high risk system has reached greater than 60% at one other time.
Greater than 40% two other times.
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)
All of these drawdowns were recovered and new high water marks were achieved.
Even when I had many questioning my methods, my skill, and my merit.
the strategy combines mean reversion with trend following, and therefore it can recover drawdown losses relatively quickly as sentiment extremes and momentum extremes are retraced at least partially or entirely.

Basically, if you are criticizing the efficacy of this system, would you kindly present a more profitable track record for a system that you have developed?
Since March 2018, 10 months, it has captured 1511%.

He did top up his account.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 28, 2019, 10:16:59 AM
125 to 150 pips "soft" stop loss PER position
You haven't read my strategy description, so quite frankly this will be the last time I respond, as I don't think your intent is positive. 

Please read forums, descriptions, and my posts regarding how I deploy and manage "discretionary" stop losses as this has been a long standing topic of discussion both here and elsewhere in many forex forums where I post.


Have you been reading the comments on your own thread? It seems no one really knows how far your "discretionary" stoplosses can go. Not even whether they should let their high risk accounts margin call or top up to mirror your account.

I was interested to invest, but after investigating I found out its quite difficult to watch my account sink to a 60% DD open floating loss. Your DDs can go very bad very quickly without a hard equity stop out, its a simple math.

You mentioned you are setting up a 40% max equity stop out with brokers, which according to your myfxbook performance, it could have been hit multiple times in the past 2 years of track record!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 28, 2019, 10:46:04 AM
This is what I was asking him. A simple answer like yes I top up my account by #% will help the investors to know if they need to follow his actions.

It looks like the topup is around 20% of the old balance.


Yeah. He has too much at stake here to let this account margin call. If this account survives (which is far from certain) I expect him to add this fact to the description of his strategy. "you're not only risking 100% of your account - be prepared to top up if needed"

I'm not topping up, I'm running this at 50% risk luckily. Whether it saves me remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 28, 2019, 10:49:02 AM

You mentioned you are setting up a 40% max equity stop out with brokers, which according to your myfxbook performance, it could have been hit multiple times in the past 2 years of track record!

The equity / preservation / rescue stop is set at broker level on low risk strategy, fund clients, profit sharing, performance fee clients only.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 28, 2019, 12:06:27 PM
I am using MQL5 to copy the trades and I faced a strange partial closure for some of the trades!

I am not sure if this has been done be the trader or by MQL5. But from my observation for the master account itself it has not partial closed any trades.

Just strange and the first time I faced that issue!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 28, 2019, 12:23:47 PM
It looks like MQL5 tried to adjust the mismatch between my current balance with the new balance from the signal provider after top up and it adjust it by partially closing some of the trades!

Strange!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Pegasus FX on January 28, 2019, 02:41:48 PM
Hello Outsidethebox,

Hope this msg finds you well.  I have looked at your performance via Darwinex and the results are quite impressive.  I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

1) Regarding actual PAMM account services you use, what is the lowest deposit someone can invest with you?

2) I am currently on Darwinex and have opened my first DARWIN recently.  I am finding my DARWIN results are differing from my strategy results in terms of performance i.e. my strategy on average has 3:1 risk reward return but my DARWIN results are averaging around 2:1 risk reward return. My strategy is an intraday one with relatively tight stops so this may be an issue.  Do you find you have similar issues with your DARWIN?

Any opinion you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Keep up the good results
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 28, 2019, 05:35:56 PM

1) Regarding actual PAMM account services you use, what is the lowest deposit someone can invest with you?

2) I am currently on Darwinex and have opened my first DARWIN recently.  I am finding my DARWIN results are differing from my strategy results in terms of performance i.e. my strategy on average has 3:1 risk reward return but my DARWIN results are averaging around 2:1 risk reward return. My strategy is an intraday one with relatively tight stops so this may be an issue.  Do you find you have similar issues with your DARWIN?

1)  $5000 USD/EUR/AUD/GBP

2) Yes, this is largely due to their automated algorithmic Risk Manager that they use to adjust risk to 10% VaR.  My underlying strategy is far more profitable, so I just gotta except that is just the price we pay to be able to compete for Darwinia allocations and other sizeable investments some day if they come.  Seems the bigger investors just aren't there yet really.  Peanuts.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Pegasus FX on January 28, 2019, 11:23:53 PM
Okay cool.  Thanks for answering my questions.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 29, 2019, 01:18:25 PM
There are some extreme lot sizes now,  if those go the wrong way there is no topping up that would help.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 29, 2019, 02:20:32 PM
There are some extreme lot sizes now,  if those go the wrong way there is no topping up that would help.

Sounds like he is martingaling his way out of the losses.

Could you please specify where the size of lots started and where it has arrived now?
Is it 2 times more, 10 times more etc?

Also, what are the positions and on which pair?

Thanks

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 29, 2019, 04:22:22 PM
Apologies for the confusion, it turns out that his trading was on high risk on the other portfolio, here the max drawdown is only 27%: (Not 60%!!)
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hk-mt-cook/2206347

Now this sounds a lot more reasonable to me. But the martingale aspect still freaks me out.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 29, 2019, 04:26:14 PM
Drawdown recovery proceeding nicely.
current open drawdown 28%

That trade was a mistake today - fat finger - but we were at strong resistance so I actually could have left it open, but had to be safe so I closed it at 1 pip loss.
First 25 lot trade I've ever made. 
So I then traded slightly higher at 3 lots to earn back the dollar amount for the 1 pip loss.  All in a day's work.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 29, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Another $1000 has been deposited into the signal provider account. which is around 8.5% of the account balance. overall the last few days around 30% of the account balance has been deposited into the account. I am talking about the high return account.

https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/438289#!tab=tab_account

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 29, 2019, 08:32:33 PM
So now my initially reduced risk at 50% effectively becomes almost nominal risk for those remaining trades. I don't like that one bit.

This skews the results and makes DD look smaller than it really is on master account.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 30, 2019, 03:02:49 AM
So now my initially reduced risk at 50% effectively becomes almost nominal risk for those remaining trades. I don't like that one bit.

This skews the results and makes DD look smaller than it really is on master account.

The deposit load has reached over 90% on that account. It has only missed Margin call by a whisker a few times and hence the recent deposits to top it up with the current drawdown - i hope your only playing with money you can afford to loose. Many lost money on the other OTB high risk account which DID crash out on margin call - such as you can read about on this thread a few pages back. Based on the trading methodology and Grid system it follows - i consider even the low risk account, as high risk. you have been warned...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 30, 2019, 03:28:09 AM

The deposit load has reached over 90% on that account. It has only missed Margin call by a whisker a few times and hence the recent deposits to top it up with the current drawdown -

Many lost money on the other OTB high risk account which DID crash out on margin call - such as you can read about on this thread a few pages back.

This strategy is high risk, yes of course only use money that you can afford to lose and also take profits regularly each month when we hit new high water mark. 
See equity curve here:  http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)

Time and time again, it's the same.  people love me when I make them huge money, and then they are the first to criticise and hurl accusations when we enter drawdown.  It's like clock work, so I have learned to just "tune it out" basically.  I had 800 to 900 investors "pack it in" on a low risk strategy on Zulutrade in a 6% equity drawdown, because they were not copying the risk that I had on the master account, and also were closing trades when I had not done so on the master account.  Then one week later, I had moved to new PIP Profit highs, and nearly recovered all the Equity Profit from high water mark.
See profile here:  https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading)

This account is nowhere near margin call.  It is currently 50% drawdown. And for those who didn't top up, they would be about 60% DD.  Well within the parameters of the trading on this strategy historically.
This account has not "missed margin call by a whisker"
Please learn to read charts and understand statistics on the platform performance metrics, instead of coming here to "complain" publicly and somehow I guess have others comfort you with "yes I know this guy's terrible" type of unhelpful comments.

Please go back to others comments in the other two significant drawdowns, and how they also reacted and now how they have been silenced.

Another inaccurate claim that you made:
The high risk #2 strategy that was just opened recently only had 2 copiers on MQL5 and 1 copier on SignalStart.
Also 2 subscribers on HotForex Copy have remained with me for the recovery, and therefore 2 of 5 have recovered and probably 3 have hit margin call.
Therefore "many" did not "crash out" on margin call. 
As I said previously, I have already recovered these losses on that High Risk 2 strategy, and have moved higher than the previous high water mark.  Your comments are deliberately exaggerated to gain sympathy that will not help you anyway I don't think.  Again, I am being serious, concentrate on making money.  It's not the end of the world like you guys are wanting people to believe.
This is a high risk strategy, and I will recover the lost profits in the months to come regardless of what happens right now.  This is the long term resolute thinking that is required to stay profitable overall in forex.

See here (profit tab):  http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 30, 2019, 07:23:56 AM

The deposit load has reached over 90% on that account. It has only missed Margin call by a whisker a few times and hence the recent deposits to top it up with the current drawdown - i hope your only playing with money you can afford to loose. Many lost money on the other OTB high risk account which DID crash out on margin call - such as you can read about on this thread a few pages back. Based on the trading methodology and Grid system it follows - i consider even the low risk account, as high risk. you have been warned...

I'm well aware of what I'm copying and the way he trades and works. The only thing that surprised me this time are the deposits so I have manually closed some of the positions at an opportune moment to get back in line roughly with the risk I'm willing to take without depositing more. I was expecting him to work with what he had in the account. But the easiest way to avoid margin call without taking a loss is to just deposit more. However this only works as long as the account in question is small and that extra money doesn't mean much to you. He will not be depositing millions to a large account nor will he be able to save a PAMM that way if it gets that far.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 30, 2019, 08:39:56 AM
For me I asked if Greg will deposit more or not to increase my investment as well to match the new balance. I am willing to take the risk and I am only using a money that I am willing to loose.

I think that the communication is king here. Just keep the investors in the loop. General information is OK but something like I will increase the balance by ##% to reduce the risk is needed and people where asking the question and getting no answer.

Because of the balance mismatch I got hit with some loss because of that. MQL5 system tried to adjust the level of my exposure by partial closing some of the trades which cost me. If I got the information in time I will deposit more to keep the % matching between the master account and my account.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on January 30, 2019, 08:53:55 AM

The deposit load has reached over 90% on that account. It has only missed Margin call by a whisker a few times and hence the recent deposits to top it up with the current drawdown - i hope your only playing with money you can afford to loose. Many lost money on the other OTB high risk account which DID crash out on margin call - such as you can read about on this thread a few pages back. Based on the trading methodology and Grid system it follows - i consider even the low risk account, as high risk. you have been warned...

I'm well aware of what I'm copying and the way he trades and works. The only thing that surprised me this time are the deposits so I have manually closed some of the positions at an opportune moment to get back in line roughly with the risk I'm willing to take without depositing more. I was expecting him to work with what he had in the account. But the easiest way to avoid margin call without taking a loss is to just deposit more. However this only works as long as the account in question is small and that extra money doesn't mean much to you. He will not be depositing millions to a large account nor will he be able to save a PAMM that way if it gets that far.

Its not just the 1 blown account, extra deposits into the others and continuous large drawdown that is worrying - but also the increasing number of positions opened - used to be a max of 10, now its upto 14. Kind of Martingale style increasing lot sizes to recoup losses etc - the writing is on the wall here. If there is some kind of breaking news that sends the AUD skyhigh and out of its recent range - investor accounts will be frozen for a long time with no free margin available to trade your way out of it... of course OTB just drops in another $500 and keeps going...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 30, 2019, 09:33:33 AM
max open exposure for low risk still under 1 lot per $10,000.
max open exposure for high risk still under 7 lots per $10,000.  As described.
Number of open trades doesn't matter, averaging in, spreading it out is good, and keeping max open exposure within guidelines.
study my trade strategy and plan and history before you subscribe.  it's all very plain to see beforehand.  So complaining after subscribing is just not going to help.  This is the way I trade.  And it has proven profitable.
I cannot constantly update 1000 clients on 3 different strategies and 6 different platforms, that is just impossible.
Subscribers to trade copying must accept responsibility for their own balance, risk management, etc. 
PAMM clients of mine are at 5% drawdown at low risk and because they are paying profit sharing performance fees I accept TOTAL responsibility for their accounts/risk management/communication, having booked 4.94% profit already this month, so there is absolutely no reason to mention PAMM "emergencies" / margin calls. 
Please speak accurately.
And, here's some homework.
You pay a monthly fee for copying on potentially huge accounts, and you keep all the profits.
Tell me how much you made over the last months, and how much you paid me.

Does this seem fair to me?  But I don't complain.  This will be the last year for sure that I offer signal copying.
Once I get more big allocations, this will no longer pain me so much.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 30, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
I asked you if you plan to deposit and you did not give me a clear answer about it. So you read my question and understood the question and wrote an answer to my question and at the same time you are saying you cannot update your clients about what you are planning to do!

When I asked a question about increasing the balance and if you are planning to do so but you did not give me a clear answer!

You can utilize MQL5 to communicate clearly about each of your 4 signals listed there. It is easy to post new related to each one of the strategies without confusing the users of other strategies.

I think people are following public forums like this one to get updates regarding your strategy. People can read that you kept the level of draw dawn because of the deposits to your account. The new subscribers should take that into consideration.

I wish you all the best in your future plans.

I edited this post to clear some confusing and correct some mistakes.



max open exposure for low risk still under 1 lot per $10,000.
max open exposure for high risk still under 7 lots per $10,000.  As described.
Number of open trades doesn't matter, averaging in, spreading it out is good, and keeping max open exposure within guidelines.
study my trade strategy and plan and history before you subscribe.  it's all very plain to see beforehand.  So complaining after subscribing is just not going to help.  This is the way I trade.  And it has proven profitable.
I cannot constantly update 1000 clients on 3 different strategies and 6 different platforms, that is just impossible.
Subscribers to trade copying must accept responsibility for their own balance, risk management, etc. 
PAMM clients of mine are at 5% drawdown at low risk and because they are paying profit sharing performance fees I accept TOTAL responsibility for their accounts/risk management/communication, having booked 4.94% profit already this month, so there is absolutely no reason to mention PAMM "emergencies" / margin calls. 
Please speak accurately.
And, here's some homework.
You pay a monthly fee for copying on potentially huge accounts, and you keep all the profits.
Tell me how much you made over the last months, and how much you paid me.

Does this seem fair to me?  But I don't complain.  This will be the last year for sure that I offer signal copying.
Once I get more big allocations, this will no longer pain me so much.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 30, 2019, 10:08:22 AM
If it was directed at me, I made $876.38 in booked profits. I currently have a $1150 floating loss and I paid a couple of hundred $ for subscriptions. So at this point well underwater. We're talking high risk signal here to avoid any confusion. It's a speculative account. But I'm also not complaining except for the fact that as mentioned it would be good to know that there will be deposits. With that knowledge we can take care of the rest ourselves. If we don't know that we can get cought off guard. That's all there is to it.

You pay a monthly fee for copying on potentially huge accounts, and you keep all the profits.
Tell me how much you made over the last months, and how much you paid me.[/b]
Does this seem fair to me?  But I don't complain.  This will be the last year for sure that I offer signal copying.
Once I get more big allocations, this will no longer pain me so much.

You should not feel the need to be complaining. After all you're profiting more than just what people pay you. You're getting exposure you wouldn't be getting if there were no signals. And it benefits you in other ways as well, not just what you get payed for some signals. Truth be told, subscription income is not exactly peanuts anyway, don't know how much you get payed (and I don't really care) but if you "lost" 800 subscribers at some point then it must have been (and still is) quite a lot. Monthly. But I can understand your wish to move away from all of this, grass usually looks greener on the other side and sometimes it actually is.

I think you misanderstood my comment about PAMM but let's just leave it there.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 30, 2019, 12:19:34 PM
For the high risk account I think it is just if we have been informed about the deposits it will be clear. Investing is risky and high risk strategies are more riskier but we choose to follow this signal because we believe in the trades and his ability to keep us informed in a timely manner. This can be done easily if the trader is willing to do that.

If it was directed at me, I made $876.38 in booked profits. I currently have a $1150 floating loss and I paid a couple of hundred $ for subscriptions. So at this point well underwater. We're talking high risk signal here to avoid any confusion. It's a speculative account. But I'm also not complaining except for the fact that as mentioned it would be good to know that there will be deposits. With that knowledge we can take care of the rest ourselves. If we don't know that we can get cought off guard. That's all there is to it.

You pay a monthly fee for copying on potentially huge accounts, and you keep all the profits.
Tell me how much you made over the last months, and how much you paid me.[/b]
Does this seem fair to me?  But I don't complain.  This will be the last year for sure that I offer signal copying.
Once I get more big allocations, this will no longer pain me so much.

You should not feel the need to be complaining. After all you're profiting more than just what people pay you. You're getting exposure you wouldn't be getting if there were no signals. And it benefits you in other ways as well, not just what you get payed for some signals. Truth be told, subscription income is not exactly peanuts anyway, don't know how much you get payed (and I don't really care) but if you "lost" 800 subscribers at some point then it must have been (and still is) quite a lot. Monthly. But I can understand your wish to move away from all of this, grass usually looks greener on the other side and sometimes it actually is.

I think you misanderstood my comment about PAMM but let's just leave it there.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 30, 2019, 01:44:49 PM
I asked you if you plan to deposit and you did not give me a clear answer about it. So you read my question and understood the question and wrote an answer to my question and at the same time you are saying you cannot update your clients about what you are planning to do!
When I asked a question about increasing the balance and if you are planning to do so but you did not give me a clear answer!
You can utilize MQL5 to communicate clearly about each of your 4 signals listed there. It is easy to post new related to each one of the strategies without confusing the users of other strategies.
I think people are following public forums like this one to get updates regarding your strategy. People can read that you kept the level of draw dawn because of the deposits to your account. The new subscribers should take that into consideration.

I tell people I am not on the forums 24/7.
I am trading 24/7.
Please be patient when I don't get to every question within 24 hours.  I have said I aim to respond within 24 to 48 hours normally.
The main issue here is that there are many people that need help and demand my attention on 6 different platforms, and so I deal with things as quickly as I possibly can, in priority and as they arise.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 30, 2019, 03:14:29 PM
Thanks Greg.

What you are doing is great. I know you need to focus on trading and do what you are good at. Text is not always the best way to communicate. Let us focus on what is important to all of us and that is getting out of draw dawn and increase our profits.

Good luck.

I asked you if you plan to deposit and you did not give me a clear answer about it. So you read my question and understood the question and wrote an answer to my question and at the same time you are saying you cannot update your clients about what you are planning to do!
When I asked a question about increasing the balance and if you are planning to do so but you did not give me a clear answer!
You can utilize MQL5 to communicate clearly about each of your 4 signals listed there. It is easy to post new related to each one of the strategies without confusing the users of other strategies.
I think people are following public forums like this one to get updates regarding your strategy. People can read that you kept the level of draw dawn because of the deposits to your account. The new subscribers should take that into consideration.

I tell people I am not on the forums 24/7.
I am trading 24/7.
Please be patient when I don't get to every question within 24 hours.  I have said I aim to respond within 24 to 48 hours normally.
The main issue here is that there are many people that need help and demand my attention on 6 different platforms, and so I deal with things as quickly as I possibly can, in priority and as they arise.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on January 30, 2019, 07:35:16 PM
Well Fed was dovish in the FOMC decision as expected and the dollar is getting slaughtered. What next?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 30, 2019, 08:16:50 PM
Now the numbers I reported earlier from my account are no longer true  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on January 30, 2019, 08:21:20 PM
Floating DD on high risk master at 80%.

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Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on January 31, 2019, 12:37:54 AM
Hello, Greg.

You must have a stomach of steel and temperament of a Koala Bear. I too had some success in manual trading but I lost much sleep worrying about unexpected events which might impact my trades. On top of that, you have to deal with all the critiques and hold the hands of others which must amplify this stress.

I take off my hat to you and wish you a peaceful journey in this reality, my friend.  :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 12:52:43 PM

The deposit load has reached over 90% on that account. It has only missed Margin call by a whisker a few times and hence the recent deposits to top it up with the current drawdown -

Many lost money on the other OTB high risk account which DID crash out on margin call - such as you can read about on this thread a few pages back.

This strategy is high risk, yes of course only use money that you can afford to lose and also take profits regularly each month when we hit new high water mark. 
See equity curve here:  http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider/2450316)

Time and time again, it's the same.  people love me when I make them huge money, and then they are the first to criticise and hurl accusations when we enter drawdown.  It's like clock work, so I have learned to just "tune it out" basically.  I had 800 to 900 investors "pack it in" on a low risk strategy on Zulutrade in a 6% equity drawdown, because they were not copying the risk that I had on the master account, and also were closing trades when I had not done so on the master account.  Then one week later, I had moved to new PIP Profit highs, and nearly recovered all the Equity Profit from high water mark.
See profile here:  https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading (https://www.zulutrade.com/trader/375788/trading)

This account is nowhere near margin call.  It is currently 50% drawdown. And for those who didn't top up, they would be about 60% DD.  Well within the parameters of the trading on this strategy historically.
This account has not "missed margin call by a whisker"
Please learn to read charts and understand statistics on the platform performance metrics, instead of coming here to "complain" publicly and somehow I guess have others comfort you with "yes I know this guy's terrible" type of unhelpful comments.

Please go back to others comments in the other two significant drawdowns, and how they also reacted and now how they have been silenced.

Another inaccurate claim that you made:
The high risk #2 strategy that was just opened recently only had 2 copiers on MQL5 and 1 copier on SignalStart.
Also 2 subscribers on HotForex Copy have remained with me for the recovery, and therefore 2 of 5 have recovered and probably 3 have hit margin call.
Therefore "many" did not "crash out" on margin call. 
As I said previously, I have already recovered these losses on that High Risk 2 strategy, and have moved higher than the previous high water mark.  Your comments are deliberately exaggerated to gain sympathy that will not help you anyway I don't think.  Again, I am being serious, concentrate on making money.  It's not the end of the world like you guys are wanting people to believe.
This is a high risk strategy, and I will recover the lost profits in the months to come regardless of what happens right now.  This is the long term resolute thinking that is required to stay profitable overall in forex.

See here (profit tab):  http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326)

Hi Greg why did you not cut losses before when you had the chance? Seems like you are going for broke all in type of trading. How are you going to recover account if account blows up?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 31, 2019, 03:30:00 PM
Lesson nr. 1 is don't try to save an account with a runaway basket of trades by depositing some more.
Lesson nr. 2 is close trades that went bad when it makes sense to close them so that you can minimize losses and not when you're forced to close them because you're running out of margin (that's pretty much never the best time!)

This account is beyond recoverable. Time to act was a long time ago. Equity is down to 5% and you can't do anything with that nor does it make sense because nobody in his right mind would subscribe or invest in a strategy with this kind of track record. It's not something you advertise so not sure why he's even trying to save this (there was another tiny deposit).

His normal strategy took a hit as well but that's OK, still looks pretty good, nothing to worry about too much. His high risk strategy is toast and I'm not sure if he's capable of running a high risk strategy. He'll disagree of course but what I've seen, unless he changes his approach fundamentally, it'll blow again.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 03:44:56 PM
Yeah why he not cut losses ages ago. We pay him money to look after our accounts and minimise losses. 50% loss ok means he can recover. But 99% loss is not ok.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on January 31, 2019, 03:56:54 PM
The high risk master has hit margin call.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on January 31, 2019, 04:13:39 PM
A screenshots for future reference is attached.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 31, 2019, 04:16:32 PM
If anybody is still copying I suggest you disable the signal and close everything, he still has one trade going and nobody knows what he plans to do. If he opens another trade, small as it might be, it will be copied across relative to his account size so could be a big one on yours if you had risk dialed down and still have money left.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
Too late.....
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 31, 2019, 05:04:06 PM
Not really. He's still trading, more deposits and new trades. That's why I said be careful if you're still connected.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 05:06:47 PM
He quickly opened up a huge basket already at 4 times the normal risk before i could disconnect.. is greg revenge trading??
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 31, 2019, 05:11:46 PM
Not sure about revenge trading but with a bit of luck we could get price action for some kind of move down on AUDUSD. Perhaps he's counting on that. If it moves at least 10 pips down from here perhaps there will be a ray of hope.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
Hope? Why did he close all the trades now and not sooner? If he got margin called how on earth did he let that happen if he kept depositing?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on January 31, 2019, 06:04:50 PM
The trades were closed at loss due to the margin call. When the floating loss reduces the equity to zero, the broker closes the largest position, releasing it's margin back to the equity. Hope this explains it.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on January 31, 2019, 06:10:43 PM
Lack of communication from Greg led to this. If he had told us his plan we could have kept the trades going and maybe if he told us "i stuffed up" earlier on then we would have closed the trades earlier. But he keeps saying he will recover losses and reach new highs and keeps on saying how confident he is. It is a form of false advertising.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on January 31, 2019, 06:28:39 PM
Hope? Why did he close all the trades now and not sooner? If he got margin called how on earth did he let that happen if he kept depositing?

That basket of trades was flawed as soon as he opened a relatively large position around NFP and some not so much smaller shortly after in close succession. Not sure why he did that, I had my finger on "close" twice when I saw that first large trade and then another half that size. Unfortunately I did not close them which eventually cost me 25% of my account instead of $10. I consider that my own fault, the other 30% loss is his.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on January 31, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
125 to 150 pips "soft" stop loss PER position
You haven't read my strategy description, so quite frankly this will be the last time I respond, as I don't think your intent is positive. 

Please read forums, descriptions, and my posts regarding how I deploy and manage "discretionary" stop losses as this has been a long standing topic of discussion both here and elsewhere in many forex forums where I post.


Have you been reading the comments on your own thread? It seems no one really knows how far your "discretionary" stoplosses can go. Not even whether they should let their high risk accounts margin call or top up to mirror your account.

I was interested to invest, but after investigating I found out its quite difficult to watch my account sink to a 60% DD open floating loss. Your DDs can go very bad very quickly without a hard equity stop out, its a simple math.

You mentioned you are setting up a 40% max equity stop out with brokers, which according to your myfxbook performance, it could have been hit multiple times in the past 2 years of track record!

The problem is, when ever he tries to explain his risk, he does not tell the truth!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 04:16:08 AM
Hi guys.
I haven't read all the messages yet, as I have learned this year that it is utmost of importance that I always deal with life/personal/trading/professional challenges on my own terms and wall off the "multiple voices" that will potentially de-rail me from achieving overall success.

I will respond in greater detail on all the forums this weekend about:

1 - What happened in recent High Risk losses, when the High Risk 1 strategy had done very well for 11 months. 
2 - What my plans are in February to once again live by my motto "learn from your mistakes and do not give up."  This will mean making changes to high risk strategy and starting from scratch, updating the subscribers who've been affected.
3 - Tough lessons that I have learned about the way to communicate publicly and what type of communication I am willing to allow from clients, subscribers, and others interested online.  This will mean changes to the way I have been operating for the first 2 years. You all have so many comments and opinions but you don't put into reality how this affects the mentality, work load, etc of the very trader who is managing your wealth.  People again let their emotions cloud or destroy their restraint and discipline that is necessary for success, tranquility, and peace.
This time I allowed people to get to me, but this will not happen again.
Many of my professional finance colleagues have told me to not participate in forums like this, and now I see why.

The level of accessibility and scrutiny that traders like myself willingly expose ourselves to (in good faith) can lead to a detrimental negative feedback loop of consequences that disturb the harmony and stability of my professional duties and success.  Others would not identify with the challenges that this type of life presents in the tough times, although those like doctors, business owners, celebrities, and professional athletes can surely understand to some extent.


Please be assured that I will continue to work, as I have done these past 2 years, to provide good profits via Forex Alternative Investment, with balance, stability, and excellence.  Upon reflection, I know I can come to the table in February stronger, help others get an achievable vision, and to collaborate on this together.  It is possible and I want to do it. 

Low risk and Medium risk strategies have worked well for 23 months and 18 months respectively, so that is servicing trade copiers and Fund investors and Zulu investors well. 

The High risk investors/traders, though, as we all have heard over and over again in these types of forums, must....
1 - Use relatively smaller risk capital
2 - Diversify in other lower risk, more stable investments (in Forex and other assets)
3 - withdraw profits each month, taking them off the table regularly to recover initial investment
4 - Have stability in your income generating activities outside Forex so you feel stronger and more able to make good decisions in high pressure situations
5 - work on finding good balance in life, relationships, health, and financial goals.  and follow thru.

I have already begun responding to nearly 50 messages over email, instagram, private messages, and social media, so please give me ample time when it is also Month End and this means I must produce Fund Reports and Forum Updates on ROI for January.  From the very beginning I have wanted to be open, as honest as possible, and offer good forex products, and this is what I have done for the most part if you look back at my whole journey - a long one indeed.
Below is an image that details the perilous journey to success as an entrepreneur, business director, and fund manager.

(https://storage.investagrams.com/files/Account/34771/Post/2018/02/User_34771_Image_Post_20180208-170456_16e6597c-947a-4000-b622-0f4291fffc17.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 04:35:53 AM
Hello, Greg.

You must have a stomach of steel and temperament of a Koala Bear. I too had some success in manual trading but I lost much sleep worrying about unexpected events which might impact my trades. On top of that, you have to deal with all the critiques and hold the hands of others which must amplify this stress.

I take off my hat to you and wish you a peaceful journey in this reality, my friend.  :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

We each are dealing with our own lives, our own pressures, and our own goals, and so often we don't take the time to relate to others so that we understand each other and do not deal hurtfully to others.  Thanks for your kind comments.  I have found in the past 4.5 years of custody battle and unwanted divorce that it is these times that shape us, if we have the insight, courage, and acceptance.
This will be just one more brick in the wall to overall success, but it is a step backwards for sure.  Time for reflection, slight tweaking to strategy that only worked for 11 months, even though the other 2 are working better.  But it takes a courage that others normally do not want to exhibit themselves (or do not thoroughly understand what this means) and yet they criticise others when they are trying to do it in their own lives.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 05:13:27 AM
Not sure about revenge trading but with a bit of luck we could get price action for some kind of move down on AUDUSD. Perhaps he's counting on that. If it moves at least 10 pips down from here perhaps there will be a ray of hope.

Yes I will comment about these dynamics this weekend.  As you can see, the 200 Day Moving Average needed to be "ticked off" and there were other notable factors, like month end dollar movements, Fed Jerome Powell "stock market PUT", which I should have learned by now is usually the worst trading events for me.  Another FOMC Fed inaccuracy I made was early in my online trading journey in March 2017... and I must dial down risk (smaller positions / exposure) before major Fed mtgs.

there is much to be learned actually from these sorts of situations, if you are resolute and determined to keep a positive outlook and not fall into only negative thinking.
Trading is one of the most psychologically expanding professions you can choose, as you often are alone doing it, unlike other jobs.  The life lessons are oftentimes done alone and yet others judge you, make rash conclusions about your thoughts and actions, and do it all online when they themselves have not thought "do to others what you would have them do to you" -- Golden Rule.
Much of our modern online world has rejected this way of old-fashioned living.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on February 01, 2019, 10:36:39 AM
I'm sure you'll come back stronger and with some adjustments we can all start making money again. In fact normal risk account is still going strong. I'd just urge you to consider implementing some kind of stronger risk framework so that everybody knows what's at stake and can make appropriate decisions. You know (and have seen it now again) that large baskets tend to be volatile and it can all quickly get out of hand. Deposits are not a solution and trading with little to no margin left isn't either. So you need to have it under control and not let it get so far by acting sooner - whatever it is that you do.

I know what it takes to get on top of this game and then to also stay on top of it. And I'm just not prepared to do that with my life at this point so I'm paying people like yourself to do it instead of me. I'll let you destroy your life in front of your screens for a fee, your health, maybe your family. I'll let you have swollen ankles instead of me. I suppose that makes me a bad person. In a way.  :-\ Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: FLechdrop on February 01, 2019, 11:24:39 AM
@outsidetheboxhk: Would you not say it is better to just focus on the normal risk strategy, which is still doing fine? The high risk strategy was obviously too risky. I think that is the clear lesson to be learned here.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 11:31:04 AM
I'm sure you'll come back stronger and with some adjustments we can all start making money again. In fact normal risk account is still going strong. I'd just urge you to consider implementing some kind of stronger risk framework so that everybody knows what's at stake and can make appropriate decisions. You know (and have seen it now again) that large baskets tend to be volatile and it can all quickly get out of hand. Deposits are not a solution and trading with little to no margin left isn't either. So you need to have it under control and not let it get so far by acting sooner - whatever it is that you do.

I know what it takes to get on top of this game and then to also stay on top of it. And I'm just not prepared to do that with my life at this point so I'm paying people like yourself to do it instead of me. I'll let you destroy your life in front of your screens for a fee, your health, maybe your family. I'll let you have swollen ankles instead of me. I suppose that makes me a bad person. In a way.  :-\ Sorry about that.

In a way your wisdom seems the best at face value.  But in the end, if what I am aiming to do succeeds, I will only have to place 3 to 5 trades per month with very little work and strain, with $5 million assets under management to make a very handsome monthly income from 25% to 30% performance fees (instead of $79 per month per subscription).  I'm not that far off either, with $100,000 allocations then it is much much much easier to focus only on low risk and not take excessive risk to be able to multiply the take home income and also capital needed to succeed at Forex without the negative aspects ruining your life.  I saw this fact very early on.  It's just a matter of how to have access and control over this amount of capital.
Low risk Fund management with high net worth accounts -- in a very private life -- where your intellectual property/open trades are kept private.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 01, 2019, 11:42:21 AM
Hello, Greg.

You must have a stomach of steel and temperament of a Koala Bear. I too had some success in manual trading but I lost much sleep worrying about unexpected events which might impact my trades. On top of that, you have to deal with all the critiques and hold the hands of others which must amplify this stress.

I take off my hat to you and wish you a peaceful journey in this reality, my friend.  :)

Regards,
HumbleTrader

We each are dealing with our own lives, our own pressures, and our own goals, and so often we don't take the time to relate to others so that we understand each other and do not deal hurtfully to others.  Thanks for your kind comments.  I have found in the past 4.5 years of custody battle and unwanted divorce that it is these times that shape us, if we have the insight, courage, and acceptance.
This will be just one more brick in the wall to overall success, but it is a step backwards for sure.  Time for reflection, slight tweaking to strategy that only worked for 11 months, even though the other 2 are working better.  But it takes a courage that others normally do not want to exhibit themselves (or do not thoroughly understand what this means) and yet they criticise others when they are trying to do it in their own lives.


We have so much in common, a divorce included, mine lasted more than 10 years of court battles and bankruptcy as the cherry on top, it being part of "modern" human behavior. At least we can claim we are "modern", whatever that means. My total philosophy is all wrapped in the following phrase:



Love is the ink, wisdom is the message.  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 01, 2019, 12:35:17 PM
i wont say i told you so.... But Fundamentally your method of trading is high risk - as a math teacher you should know this? Adding more and more positions against a trend is a behavior that always results in blown accounts - its only a matter of time before the right conditions present themselves and its all over. Im sorry to say -but even your low risk account has the potential to do this!

You wonder why i came here and commented here beleiving that i was just running my mouth. Now another blown account.... Well the reason is that naive investors need a proper warning system - and these forums are all weve got!

The type of TRADING STYLE or behavior ive seen many times before and i gave you the example of the guy in australia that blew 14million with a grid EA running his accounts which margin called earlier this month. So many investors loosing their hard earned money - this behavior needs to stop. Your activity on zulutrade alone has resulted in investor losses exceeding $150k USD since inception there.

Tell me something - do you trade manually or is this an EA you have running on your account. Based on the trades i see - im 100% convinced its an EA which you may add the odd trade manually. Whatever EA it is - its rubbish and you need to stop using it! You have a responsibility and duty of care to only offer a signal which is both profitable and without all but the remotest risks of margin call. Your signals constitute irresponsible trading, more like gambling - you should not be managing other peoples money like this.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 01:09:30 PM
i wont say i told you so.... But Fundamentally your method of trading is high risk - as a math teacher you should know this? Adding more and more positions against a trend is a behavior that always results in blown accounts - its only a matter of time before the right conditions present themselves and its all over. Im sorry to say -but even your low risk account has the potential to do this!

You wonder why i came here and commented here beleiving that i was just running my mouth. Now another blown account.... Well the reason is that naive investors need a proper warning system - and these forums are all weve got!

The type of TRADING STYLE or behavior ive seen many times before and i gave you the example of the guy in australia that blew 14million with a grid EA running his accounts which margin called earlier this month. So many investors loosing their hard earned money - this behavior needs to stop. Your activity on zulutrade alone has resulted in investor losses exceeding $150k USD since inception there.

Tell me something - do you trade manually or is this an EA you have running on your account. Based on the trades i see - im 100% convinced its an EA which you may add the odd trade manually. Whatever EA it is - its rubbish and you need to stop using it! You have a responsibility and duty of care to only offer a signal which is both profitable and without all but the remotest risks of margin call. Your signals constitute irresponsible trading, more like gambling - you should not be managing other peoples money like this.

Your first words are meant to be nasty.  Don't even mention "told you so" if you really genuinely don't want to say it.
But you did mean to be nasty.
received this private message today "I know how people can get to you out there and it gets nerve racking and could make you emotional in periods of drawdown causing you to make bad decisions."  This experienced trader knows what I have to deal with numerous needs and numerous different clients.

One question:  what made you invest in the first place if you didn't see something that was good in my trade history?
it's because all the strategies have been profitable for long periods, and none of us can be 100% positive that a risk event, widened spreads, flash crash, etc doesn't really do us damage.

One other thing you forget to mention here in public is that I do this because it is profitable.  I wouldn't do it otherwise.
Do you understand that others have told me my strategy doesn't work for many months in other drawdowns that were recovered?
You use words like "it's all over", "even the low risk is doomed", "it's only a matter of time before..." and this just isn't the type of thinking and believing for the future that I subscribe to.
My strategy and plan is more than just doing what you said.
Also you don't mention the 90% of clients and subscribers who are still content with the profits they have made following my strategy.
The Zulu losses have not acrued do to my trading.  Look at the Dollar Amount equity section, and you will see that this low risk strategy has performed fine as long as copiers adhere to the exact trades and sizing I have used.  But they have not.  They increase and decrease risk and they close trades when I have not done so on the master account.
Then these losses are credited to my strategy even though it was not due to my actions - but the actions of the investor that I did not condone.

I withdrew far more in profit over 11 months, performance fees from 250 investors, and 45 subscribers to trade copying than I lost once the account was lost.  Yes i could have avoided it.  And I will do so in the future.  This is the 4th account I have blown up in 15 years.  And each time I have learned more about how to trade better, sometimes with higher risk, sometimes with prudent and cautious trading.  I will set out again and do it better in this next step the same way I have done so far in the journey to this stage.  Each time better.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 01, 2019, 01:12:37 PM
i wont say i told you so.... But Fundamentally your method of trading is high risk - as a math teacher you should know this? Adding more and more positions against a trend is a behavior that always results in blown accounts - its only a matter of time before the right conditions present themselves and its all over. Im sorry to say -but even your low risk account has the potential to do this!

You wonder why i came here and commented here beleiving that i was just running my mouth. Now another blown account.... Well the reason is that naive investors need a proper warning system - and these forums are all weve got!

The type of TRADING STYLE or behavior ive seen many times before and i gave you the example of the guy in australia that blew 14million with a grid EA running his accounts which margin called earlier this month. So many investors loosing their hard earned money - this behavior needs to stop. Your activity on zulutrade alone has resulted in investor losses exceeding $150k USD since inception there.

Tell me something - do you trade manually or is this an EA you have running on your account. Based on the trades i see - im 100% convinced its an EA which you may add the odd trade manually. Whatever EA it is - its rubbish and you need to stop using it! You have a responsibility and duty of care to only offer a signal which is both profitable and without all but the remotest risks of margin call. Your signals constitute irresponsible trading, more like gambling - you should not be managing other peoples money like this.

I agree, he did not get out of the drawdown because of his 'set of trading skills" or 'how much he could concentrate and trade wisely' !!!

He simply martingaled. If the AUDUSD kept going up yesterday without retreating down, things would have had got very very ugly, very very fast!

Bottom line... Outofthebox... you are clearly an amateur!

I am out of here
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 01, 2019, 01:32:31 PM
i wont say i told you so.... But Fundamentally your method of trading is high risk - as a math teacher you should know this? Adding more and more positions against a trend is a behavior that always results in blown accounts - its only a matter of time before the right conditions present themselves and its all over. Im sorry to say -but even your low risk account has the potential to do this!

You wonder why i came here and commented here beleiving that i was just running my mouth. Now another blown account.... Well the reason is that naive investors need a proper warning system - and these forums are all weve got!

The type of TRADING STYLE or behavior ive seen many times before and i gave you the example of the guy in australia that blew 14million with a grid EA running his accounts which margin called earlier this month. So many investors loosing their hard earned money - this behavior needs to stop. Your activity on zulutrade alone has resulted in investor losses exceeding $150k USD since inception there.

Tell me something - do you trade manually or is this an EA you have running on your account. Based on the trades i see - im 100% convinced its an EA which you may add the odd trade manually. Whatever EA it is - its rubbish and you need to stop using it! You have a responsibility and duty of care to only offer a signal which is both profitable and without all but the remotest risks of margin call. Your signals constitute irresponsible trading, more like gambling - you should not be managing other peoples money like this.

Your first words are meant to be nasty.  Don't even mention "told you so" if you really genuinely don't want to say it.
But you did mean to be nasty.
received this private message today "I know how people can get to you out there and it gets nerve racking and could make you emotional in periods of drawdown causing you to make bad decisions."  This experienced trader knows what I have to deal with numerous needs and numerous different clients.

One question:  what made you invest in the first place if you didn't see something that was good in my trade history?
it's because all the strategies have been profitable for long periods, and none of us can be 100% positive that a risk event, widened spreads, flash crash, etc doesn't really do us damage.

One other thing you forget to mention here in public is that I do this because it is profitable.  I wouldn't do it otherwise.
Do you understand that others have told me my strategy doesn't work for many months in other drawdowns that were recovered?
You use words like "it's all over", "even the low risk is doomed", "it's only a matter of time before..." and this just isn't the type of thinking and believing for the future that I subscribe to.
My strategy and plan is more than just doing what you said.
Also you don't mention the 90% of clients and subscribers who are still content with the profits they have made following my strategy.
The Zulu losses have not acrued do to my trading.  Look at the Dollar Amount equity section, and you will see that this low risk strategy has performed fine as long as copiers adhere to the exact trades and sizing I have used.  But they have not.  They increase and decrease risk and they close trades when I have not done so on the master account.
Then these losses are credited to my strategy even though it was not due to my actions - but the actions of the investor that I did not condone.

I withdrew far more in profit over 11 months, performance fees from 250 investors, and 45 subscribers to trade copying than I lost once the account was lost.  Yes i could have avoided it.  And I will do so in the future.  This is the 4th account I have blown up in 15 years.  And each time I have learned more about how to trade better, sometimes with higher risk, sometimes with prudent and cautious trading.  I will set out again and do it better in this next step the same way I have done so far in the journey to this stage.  Each time better.

I have looked at the dollar value on your account- your equity curve is still in the negative since inception there! Your account has not turned a profit in 2 months! You have to go back 3 months history to end up with a current equity increase of $343 over the last 3 months on your account.

You completely avoided my question about the EA - do you use one?
If so - would you mind telling us about it?

As to me - your trade history was not imported from mt cook - so i did not see the true drawdown or trade history. I watched carefully how your trades evolved on a daily basis - then got out early when i saw the writing on the wall...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: FLechdrop on February 01, 2019, 01:43:39 PM
@outsidetheboxhk: So you are basically saying that it profited you, even though the subscribers lost nearly all of their money, and therefore it is worth continuing?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 02:40:11 PM

I have looked at the dollar value on your account- your equity curve is still in the negative since inception there! Your account has not turned a profit in 2 months! You have to go back 3 months history to end up with a current equity increase of $343 over the last 3 months on your account.
You completely avoided my question about the EA - do you use one?

As to me - your trade history was not imported from mt cook - so i did not see the true drawdown or trade history.

Here is the proof of what I am saying.
Take current relatively small drawdown in perspective.
The part of the trade history from Mt Cook that so far has been migrated to Zulu (because their Engineers are still working on a problem that they have told me they will overcome - but they have taken 8 weeks to work on it) is since Sept 2018, and you can obviously see that the equity curve is robust even in that shorter timeframe.  The other image is the complete equity curve.

(https://i.ibb.co/bK5gTMC/equity-Jan2018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CHK5g3Y)

(https://i.ibb.co/7tFQWCg/equity-Jan2018-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m570qTv)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 02:48:28 PM


I agree, he did not get out of the drawdown because of his 'set of trading skills" or 'how much he could concentrate and trade wisely' !!!

He simply martingaled. If the AUDUSD kept going up yesterday without retreating down, things would have had got very very ugly, very very fast!

Bottom line... Outofthebox... you are clearly an amateur!

I am out of here

I only ask again that you would make your public comments polite, respectful and constructive with an outlook of what can still be accomplished in the future.
I assume you are just upset and want to take out your frustration on me because I am the trader who caused the current drawdown.  This I understand, and yet I do not need to accept your repetitive abuse an defamation.

Whatever name calling you would like to do, it still doesn't change our current situation and how each of us moves forward constructively.  If you have lost faith in my trading and strategy then fine, but I will continue to offer trade copying to multiple strategies and fund management with performance fees for profit sharing.

I never aim to cause investors to lose money, of course not.  I also will help in ways that i can to help recover the losses.  This is a good way to think.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on February 01, 2019, 03:11:16 PM
Greg,

I am sorry for your losses, but more so for your followers losses.

I will not comment on your trading skills, or lack thereof. But I would like you to think about something please. I have noticed that whenever someone points out what they perceive to be flaws in your trading/system you appear to get upset with them and treat them poorly. You also in various ways sometimes ask them to not post.

It is understandable that when your trading is going through a bad period you could become overly sensitive. But I fear that you have lost sight of what these Forums are mostly about. They are available to us so that we can share knowledge, and help each other. That knowledge may include critical posts about vendors and their strategies/performance. That can be some of the most useful information here, especially for newcomers.

Further to gaining knowledge Donna allows some vendors here to share information about their products. That is very generous of her and vendors should treat the participants in the Forum with courtesy and respect. They should realize that it is a privilege for them to be allowed to post here.

I have seen you do the most heavy and loud promotion on the various Forex Forums of any vendor I can recall. I feel it is only fair that for you to get all this free advertising that you should accept peoples various viewpoints, even if they are critical of you. Please remember the primary purpose of this Forum as I stated above.

Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 01, 2019, 03:28:23 PM
@outsidetheboxhk: So you are basically saying that it profited you, even though the subscribers lost nearly all of their money, and therefore it is worth continuing?

Not my words or thinking no.
I meant that I diversify my capital across 8 different accounts and 3 different strategies so that if one performs poorly during a certain period, then I can rely on the other profitable ones and vice versa.

I have some fixed income.
I have some profit sharing proceeds on 3 funds (Darwinex, AxiSelect, and Mt Cook)
I also had profit sharing account with Hotforex on the high risk account, but now that has been closed.
And I have capital growth on my 8 accounts.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: mikepipmaker on February 01, 2019, 03:45:07 PM
i wont say i told you so.... But Fundamentally your method of trading is high risk - as a math teacher you should know this? Adding more and more positions against a trend is a behavior that always results in blown accounts - its only a matter of time before the right conditions present themselves and its all over. Im sorry to say -but even your low risk account has the potential to do this!

You wonder why i came here and commented here beleiving that i was just running my mouth. Now another blown account.... Well the reason is that naive investors need a proper warning system - and these forums are all weve got!

The type of TRADING STYLE or behavior ive seen many times before and i gave you the example of the guy in australia that blew 14million with a grid EA running his accounts which margin called earlier this month. So many investors loosing their hard earned money - this behavior needs to stop. Your activity on zulutrade alone has resulted in investor losses exceeding $150k USD since inception there.

Tell me something - do you trade manually or is this an EA you have running on your account. Based on the trades i see - im 100% convinced its an EA which you may add the odd trade manually. Whatever EA it is - its rubbish and you need to stop using it! You have a responsibility and duty of care to only offer a signal which is both profitable and without all but the remotest risks of margin call. Your signals constitute irresponsible trading, more like gambling - you should not be managing other peoples money like this.

Exactly agree with you.... outsidetheboxhk seems more focussed on himself rather than those following.... does not seem to understand the point.

I feel really sorry for losses seen on followers account and i know how exactly it feels to lose it all, pump in more and lose that too. I had lost practically everything due to the real estate collapse in 2009…. from millions to nearly bankrupt…. and it was not even when I was trading marty system….. it happened on investments that were good real estate buys… it failed due to systemic faults that i was blind to along with everyone else above me.

Anyone trading marty should know it is only matter of time for things to turn against their positions.

if anyone says they have 100% perfect marty system - don’t believe it. it is not even possible…. low risk medium risk high risk does not matter…. price always moves… and not in the direction we want all the time. in this move that blew high risk account was just 150 pips….. and that kind of move is nothing on forex. low risk will probably blow on a 400 pip move…. and who is to say it won’t happen. of course there is a chance to salvage low risk accounts on even large moves against, but that would not be the case always.

seller should not sell false dream - clearly explain blow out is real and possible. no emotional pep talk or technical jargon is going to help.

Traders can deal with losses they make from their decisions…… but they cannot deal with losses they don’t understand. having clear cutoff should be moral responsibility of seller. stop loss at 50% would leave  something to fight back with.

investing more money into something close to blowing… is desperation - rule one of trading - no revenge on the markets.

it is also obvious that sellers earn more with high success rate systems from commissions and rewards of social trading….  traders are left hanging with nothing at the end.

Trading pressure should never add to a persons personal pressure… we choose trading automated or copying since we are busy with 100 other things… advise after blowing is not exactly soothing… outofthebox’s post on “how to never give up” is good for life… but not apt for trading with hard earned money… that can vanish in a blink. As  traders, we have very strong personas and that is the very reason we are able to trade - successfully or not is another issue, but we are very strong in the mind and heart.

but while trading,  when deep down in the final deep ditch, the climb is a 90 degree incline, with lower account size…. so the motivational image does not really make sense to me as a trader…. facts speak.

of course you will learn, but learning should not be at the cost of the capital of your followers…  don't mean any offense but it past profit history and great success rate mean very little when the system uses martingale or erratic position sizing. It only attracts traders to be part of the success, but really harms in the long run.  Seller should clearly say the account will blow on a move of xxx pips against the positions at xx risk... this is a moral and basic responsibility.. traders can decide for themselves of they want to trade - then it is their decision.

Always trade safe guys, wish you all good luck - just don’t let luck be deciding factor in your trading…. let it just be a part.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on February 01, 2019, 06:59:00 PM
Greg when are you going to continue trading? People are still paying you monthly and you have a target to reach for the month. Can you please focus and do your job?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on February 01, 2019, 07:39:58 PM
Wow, so many are quick to jump on the flamewagon this week. I guess I kind of understand, since I was having major anxiety going through my first couple of drawdowns with the OTB system. But I spoke (privately) about my particular qualms with Greg, and he responded with great communication and even some advice. I followed it and have had great profits for over a year. OTB goes up and down, but it has been one of the two systems out of the MANY I have that made significant profit over the past year.

I absolutely don't get the rationale behind publicly trying to attack the trader - ESPECIALLY if you still have money invested in his system!!! Are you trying to shake his confidence at a time like this? Are you trying to rattle him, just to prove a point? Why actively try to sabotage the trader and/or his system and jeopardize what capital you have left? If you don't have any capital with him, remember that some of us still do and don't appreciate the emotional grenades being lobbed. I want him clear-headed and engaged in getting out of the drawdown, not fielding line drives aimed at his head. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, okay. Every system can use tweaks and tune-ups. But why wrap it in so much emotional garbage? That just amplifies the problem.

Regarding the high risk, I can't believe people are getting so torqued up about this (High Risk system). I took high risk to mean that there is a great chance I could lose it all, but a slightly better chance I could win big. If I wanted a system that would run in XYZ type of fashion instead of how Greg does things, I would have made that XYZ system and traded it myself. You know what? I found that mentally I suck at consistently managing trades myself. Despite having all the head knowledge I could ever need to make piles of profit, years later I still only eke out a few percentage points net profit. If you feel you can make a system so much better, make it. Maybe I'll throw some money at you, too. With this High Risk, I initially put a relatively small amount of money into the system that I would not feel bad if was all gone next week. Lo and behold, it doubled. I withdrew all my initial investment, and now I was playing with house money. I've since made subsequent withdrawals and bought some nice toys along the way. I still have the initial investment sitting on the side, and I'll reload and continue on as before.

Also, it's sunny and 79 degrees right now, so I'm going to the beach. Everybody should just move somewhere warm.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on February 01, 2019, 08:03:58 PM
Greg when are you going to continue trading? People are still paying you monthly and you have a target to reach for the month. Can you please focus and do your job?
Not sure what you're on about here? He is still trading and he has no targets to reach.

If you're talking about the high risk account - that account is blown and he said he'll let us know how he wants to proceed with that. It blew up yesterday, today is friday. What's the rush?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 01, 2019, 11:05:23 PM
Greg - if you really want to do screen shots and want proof of what im saying see below;
No emotions here, only facts;
1. You have blown 2 accounts in 2 months - both were live signals offered to investors.
2. Current profit including floating losses for the last 3 months on your account is $423 - it is still negative for the last month.
3. Your strategy description is false, which in part caused investor loss through excessive position sizing- Namely - your Stop losses have blown out WAY above what you quote @ 125-140 pips per position. Some trades have gone to -250pips!
4. Your max drawdown is almost 2x more than where you say you would keep it below @ 15% on your zulu signal account.
5. Due to inaccuracies or ingnorance of your own strategy description, stop losses being ignored, and excessive drawdown, it caused many investor to cut their losses and run. This has resulted in a total PnL  of $-146,000 since inception on zulutrade platform.

AND YOU STILL IGNORE THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION- WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE GRID SYSTEM BASED EA YOU ARE RUNNING ON YOUR ACCOUNT?
 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 01, 2019, 11:39:56 PM
Wow, so many are quick to jump on the flamewagon this week. I guess I kind of understand, since I was having major anxiety going through my first couple of drawdowns with the OTB system. But I spoke (privately) about my particular qualms with Greg, and he responded with great communication and even some advice. I followed it and have had great profits for over a year. OTB goes up and down, but it has been one of the two systems out of the MANY I have that made significant profit over the past year.

I absolutely don't get the rationale behind publicly trying to attack the trader - ESPECIALLY if you still have money invested in his system!!! Are you trying to shake his confidence at a time like this? Are you trying to rattle him, just to prove a point? Why actively try to sabotage the trader and/or his system and jeopardize what capital you have left? If you don't have any capital with him, remember that some of us still do and don't appreciate the emotional grenades being lobbed. I want him clear-headed and engaged in getting out of the drawdown, not fielding line drives aimed at his head. If you have CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, okay. Every system can use tweaks and tune-ups. But why wrap it in so much emotional garbage? That just amplifies the problem.

Regarding the high risk, I can't believe people are getting so torqued up about this (High Risk system). I took high risk to mean that there is a great chance I could lose it all, but a slightly better chance I could win big. If I wanted a system that would run in XYZ type of fashion instead of how Greg does things, I would have made that XYZ system and traded it myself. You know what? I found that mentally I suck at consistently managing trades myself. Despite having all the head knowledge I could ever need to make piles of profit, years later I still only eke out a few percentage points net profit. If you feel you can make a system so much better, make it. Maybe I'll throw some money at you, too. With this High Risk, I initially put a relatively small amount of money into the system that I would not feel bad if was all gone next week. Lo and behold, it doubled. I withdrew all my initial investment, and now I was playing with house money. I've since made subsequent withdrawals and bought some nice toys along the way. I still have the initial investment sitting on the side, and I'll reload and continue on as before.

Also, it's sunny and 79 degrees right now, so I'm going to the beach. Everybody should just move somewhere warm.

 In my neck of the woods, I sometimes go to the sliding hill nearby with my grandchildren, there are our hills you can slide on (a) Baby hill for the very young; sometimes you see older fearful folks who are not familiar with the Canadian winter activities take a ride which is only no more than 10 meters. (b) Next to this is moderate hill where young families  slide down with their families; sometimes, and not very often one can sprain a wrist or get bumped by another sled coming down (c) Has a sign which reads only experienced riders use caution, (d) The last hill has a danger sign, posted and a statement reads, if you slide you do so at your own "risk".

When you first enter into the world of trading the one phrase that is emphasized time and time again about forex is: "Forex trading involves significant risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Increasing leverage increases risk. Do not invest money you cannot afford to lose." To me, this is the same sign as going down the hill which reads DANGER go down at your own risk!

When I see people here crying over their losses and criticizing or calling out Greg for telling them in an area of trade which is already high risk for investing that this gully is almost a certainty of 90% + loss and they turn around and complain, I see a bunch of wimps who can't understand what the words mean. HIGH RISK = JUMP OUT OF A PLANE with a parachute that may or may not work. The reward is the great exhilaration and the chance to make more than the cautious investor who will be happy to earn going interest rate at the bank plus 5% a year at most.

Right now North of here, there is the Yukon Arctic Ultra competition. Last year despite a high-risk warning, at least one if not more competitors lost limbs and life to frost. Despite last years, heavy injuries competitors are lining up. HIGH RISK! Need I say more?

Yukon Arctic Ultra competitors wary of cold-weather risks heading into Sunday's race: :)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-arctic-ultra-racers-prep-1.5001384


Regards,
HumbleTrader




Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 02, 2019, 12:02:07 AM

 ...HIGH RISK! Need I say more?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Thats all well and good, however you and Greg seem to be missing the point. The relevent point is - when your managing other peoples money, you have a responsibility to adhere to the strategy description so that investors may accurately assess the risks!!! How will you know which hill to take your family sliding down if the sign wasnt there????

An investor has no way of accurately setting their position sizing - in consideration and balancing other signals or manual trades they may be making on their account if the trader they are copying/following doesnt stick to the stated plan! This is the problem here - not the fact people lost money.

So if traders like OTBHK and others wish to use the forums and other spaces to promote their services, you can damn well expect people like me to come to the same spaces and bring some balance! There is no other accountability for irresponsible signal providers!

So i would suggest - the greg do the 1 thing he has not done yet, and that is ADDRESS HOW HE WILL MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO HIS SIGNAL SO THAT THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN? I think he should also tell us what EA he is using so that the risks of the EA may be assessed in conjunction with his management of it.


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 02, 2019, 01:07:13 AM

 ...HIGH RISK! Need I say more?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Thats all well and good, however you and Greg seem to be missing the point. The relevent point is - when your managing other peoples money, you have a responsibility to adhere to the strategy description so that investors may accurately assess the risks!!! How will you know which hill to take your family sliding down if the sign wasnt there????

An investor has no way of accurately setting their position sizing - in consideration and balancing other signals or manual trades they may be making on their account if the trader they are copying/following doesnt stick to the stated plan! This is the problem here - not the fact people lost money.

So if traders like OTBHK and others wish to use the forums and other spaces to promote their services, you can damn well expect people like me to come to the same spaces and bring some balance! There is no other accountability for irresponsible signal providers!

So i would suggest - the greg do the 1 thing he has not done yet, and that is ADDRESS HOW HE WILL MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO HIS SIGNAL SO THAT THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN? I think he should also tell us what EA he is using so that the risks of the EA may be assessed in conjunction with his management of it.

I am sorry you missed the sign which read, HIGH RISK, the rest is .....

and "ADDRESS HOW HE WILL MAKE IMPROVEMENTS TO HIS SIGNAL SO THAT THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN?", are you kidding"? Do you know that it is illegal to use the word "guarantee" even in normal; low-risk investments let alone in forex and you want someone to assure you that "THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN?"  ::)

Last I looked this was a Forex Forum.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: diyforexskills on February 02, 2019, 01:17:35 AM
I have been burned thrice too many times to trade or follow these types of high risk systems. But for those who still do, isn't the answer to regularly take winnings off the table and stuff them back under the mattress. At least those funds won't be taken back by a margin call, so high risk on initial capital is somewhat minimized over time.



Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Cardboardboxman on February 02, 2019, 01:35:31 AM
Greg never withdrew his capital every month so why should anyone else follow? He wasn't clear on this either - other traders with the same strategy clearly tell you how much you need to withdraw every month in their description. Also what about the people who joined recently?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on February 02, 2019, 01:55:21 AM
I have been burned thrice too many times to trade or follow these types of high risk systems. But for those who still do, isn't the answer to regularly take winnings off the table and stuff them back under the mattress. At least those funds won't be taken back by a margin call, so high risk on initial capital is somewhat minimized over time.

I'm also normally not a follower of the high risk systems, but he did well with my low risk account. So, I gave it a chance with a small amount. It did well, I withdrew my original investments and more besides, and I ended up with a tidy profit before it all went boom. It was fun, and I'll probably try it again with my original investment.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 02, 2019, 06:17:32 AM
Greg - if you really want to do screen shots and want proof of what im saying see below;
No emotions here, only facts;
1. You have blown 2 accounts in 2 months - both were live signals offered to investors.
2. Current profit including floating losses for the last 3 months on your account is $423 - it is still negative for the last month.
3. Your strategy description is false, which in part caused investor loss through excessive position sizing- Namely - your Stop losses have blown out WAY above what you quote @ 125-140 pips per position. Some trades have gone to -250pips!
4. Your max drawdown is almost 2x more than where you say you would keep it below @ 15% on your zulu signal account.
5. Due to inaccuracies or ingnorance of your own strategy description, stop losses being ignored, and excessive drawdown, it caused many investor to cut their losses and run. This has resulted in a total PnL  of $-146,000 since inception on zulutrade platform.

AND YOU STILL IGNORE THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION- WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE GRID SYSTEM BASED EA YOU ARE RUNNING ON YOUR ACCOUNT?

1. High risk #1 was described as risky and lasted 11 months, and made considerable profit which smart investors withdrew each month.
High risk #2 was also described as experimental and risky and only had 3 copiers and made considerable profit for 6 weeks before it crashed.
I will perfect these strategies the same way I have perfected the medium risk and low risk ones

2.  see attached image for Sept 2018 to Feb 2019 period only -- the whole account size, trade history, and percentages are calculated off the whole strategy NOT only 4 months of history that has been made visible by Zulutrade!!

3. The description -- read it again.  It uses "soft" stop losses.  Says I reserve the right to make discretionary decisions when the drawdown limits have been met or surpassed.  Most importantly, as a risk manager, I must stay within the MAX OPEN EXPOSURE and MAX DRAWDOWN in equity percentage terms on the whole account equity --- NOT IN PIPS -- which even the CEO of Zulutrade has agreed with my suggestions and is currently working to change his platform as a result of my email and because he says I am one of 5 star traders on his site.  Still with over 500 investors.  The maximum Drawdown is 15% of total equity -- not profit from 4 months which is the only metric used on Zulu images you provided.    This was maximum $450 drawdown from EQUITY HIGH WATER MARK which was $6654 NOT $1713 as ZuluTrade states, which was only the profit gathered on closed trades since SEPT 2018.

4. Again, the actions of investors controlling their own risk and their own positions closures only lies with them.  This cannot be blamed on the trader when I am not privy to what their account risk is, how many open positions they run on their MT4 accounts, and when I have not agreed that this is the right time to close trades with a trading account that is ONLY USED FOR MY STRATEGY and at the SAME RISK as my low risk master account with Mt Cook.


(https://i.ibb.co/ygzzq0q/drawdown-ANDequity-Feb2019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9yxxWnW)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 02, 2019, 06:59:33 AM
Drawdown recovery proceeding nicely.
current open drawdown 28%

That trade was a mistake today - fat finger - but we were at strong resistance so I actually could have left it open, but had to be safe so I closed it at 1 pip loss.
First 25 lot trade I've ever made. 
So I then traded slightly higher at 3 lots to earn back the dollar amount for the 1 pip loss.  All in a day's work.

Your still not addressing the main issues here! look at your quote above ^^^ then your strategy description says max DD 15% - ususally less than 10%. Making false claims about how you manage risks and drawdowns leads to investors not being able to set their end correctly! This then leads to increased risk of margin call on investor accounts- dont you get that???

Here - ill do your job for you since you refuse to address how your going to manage things differently going forward.

1. You should remove all reference to drawdown percentage if your not going to cut bad trades and adhere to it!
2. You should remove all reference to stop loss pips if your going to ignore that too - "mental stop loss" is MISLEADING language!
3. You should not open more positions in a drawdown situation and attempt to trade your way out of it, compounding risks and leading to a 3rd blown up account - instead you will wait patiently for the bad positions to recover or let them stop out at the normal SL, then reassess the market before opening a new basket.
4. You will take a serious look at your rubbish grid EA, research how many blown up accounts its responsible for, and supervise it much more carefully - better still, get rid of it entirely.

The EA which resulted in the massive 14m loss of the australian trader which MCd in the flash crash - a grid EA like yours - the name of the EA is Cobra Adrenaline. Does this ring any bells?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 02, 2019, 07:48:59 AM

Your still not addressing the main issues here! look at your quote above ^^^ then your strategy description says max DD 15% - ususally less than 10%. Making false claims about how you manage risks and drawdowns leads to investors not being able to set their end correctly! This then leads to increased risk of margin call on investor accounts- dont you get that???

Here - ill do your job for you since you refuse to address how your going to manage things differently going forward.

1. You should remove all reference to drawdown percentage if your not going to cut bad trades and adhere to it!
2. You should remove all reference to stop loss pips if your going to ignore that too - "mental stop loss" is MISLEADING language!
3. You should not open more positions in a drawdown situation and attempt to trade your way out of it, compounding risks and leading to a 3rd blown up account - instead you will wait patiently for the bad positions to recover or let them stop out at the normal SL, then reassess the market before opening a new basket.
4. You will take a serious look at your rubbish grid EA, research how many blown up accounts its responsible for, and supervise it much more carefully - better still, get rid of it entirely.

The EA which resulted in the massive 14m loss of the australian trader which MCd in the flash crash - a grid EA like yours - the name of the EA is Cobra Adrenaline. Does this ring any bells?


which strategy are you referring to, the one about 15% max drawdown?
That is the low risk one on ZuluTrade.

You also have been referring to the high risk strategy and bouncing back and forth talking about one or the other.  They are different animals all together, and yet YES I DO UNDERSTAND what you are saying is that YOU WANT SOME CONTROL and I ALSO WANT CONTROL over my trading and for trade copying basically I don't have all the control.  You want to do other things with your account.  You want to manage the risk.  And yet the very strategy that I have developed requires that I HAVE CONTROL OVER BOTH RISK AND STYLE -- NOT OTHER PEOPLE.  THIS IS THE RUB.

You want to pay me, but then micro-manage things at the same time!!
This does not work without a lot of communication and a lot of adhering to STRICT LINEAR rules.  That is not how I trade.  Therefore trade copiers with these needs SHOULD NOT COPY ME.

I do not "refuse to address how I'm going to manage things differently going forward" as you rashly conclude.
I AM TRYING TO REST ON MY WEEKEND AND PREPARE TO DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING IF YOU WOULD CALM DOWN AND LEAVE ME ALONE SO THAT I CAN DO MY JOB WITHOUT YOUR CONSTANT IRRITATION AND MICRO-MANAGEMENT.

Freedom is trading.  Freedom from having to listen to bosses exactly like you - who want to control me and tell me how to do my job.  you invested with me and then you want to tell me how to trade and do everything better!!!
TRADE FOR YOURSELF THEN AND SHOW ME THE RESULTS LATER as I'd love to see how you do when you FOLLOW ALL YOUR OWN RULES EXACTLY LIKE YOU ARE TELLING ME TO DO AND THEN HOLDING MY FEET TO THE FIRE INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN INVESTMENTS AND WHAT YOU CHOSE TO DO.

For the last time I DO NOT USE an EA!!
I am a 100% discretionary manual trader.
Ask anyone who knows me.  Goodbye.  End your fables.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on February 02, 2019, 08:15:38 AM
I think we all need to focus on what is important. Yes the high risk account blown up and this should be a lesson for who want to follow a signal like OTB. Pointing fingers will not do any good to anyone.

I learned my lesson and I moved on with this loss. The good things is that I diversity my investment.

Good luck to all of us.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 02, 2019, 08:31:27 AM
Greg, I dont know which one of your accounts is the zulu account - but from this attached screen shot of all your accounts on myfxbook, none of them except the axiselect one has a max DD below 15% and looking at the trades- the axiselect account is trading at half the lot size of the zulu account and has about half the profit also.
So your still above the 15% you set out in your strategy description unless the account is twice the size of the axiselect one. Your stop loss is also nearly double what you stipulated in your strategy description based on 1 of the stopped trades at -251 pips.

Dont you see the issue here? If your not accurate in your description and stick to it - how can investors manage their risk of following correctly?
They cant because they have no idea where the trades will stop out or how much drawdown there will be. This is the crux of the problem and is exactly why so many lost so much money copying your signal!

Now with the high risk signals - well you had full control of those - not zulu investors - and youve blown 2 accounts managing that all on your own - you cant blame investors for that and still have not offered an explaination of what you will do differently going forward to those people.

You say your not trading with an EA - you must be superman because you have positions opening at all hours of the night and day - you must never sleep... highly suspect.

The style or behavior is another point that i dont agree with - but thats largely irrelevant and subjective so ill leave that alone.




Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 02, 2019, 10:40:37 AM
Greg, I dont know which one of your accounts is the zulu account - but from this attached screen shot of all your accounts on myfxbook, none of them except the axiselect one has a max DD below 15% and looking at the trades- the axiselect account is trading at half the lot size of the zulu account and has about half the profit also.
So your still above the 15% you set out in your strategy description unless the account is twice the size of the axiselect one. Your stop loss is also nearly double what you stipulated in your strategy description based on 1 of the stopped trades at -251 pips.

Dont you see the issue here? If your not accurate in your description and stick to it - how can investors manage their risk of following correctly?
They cant because they have no idea where the trades will stop out or how much drawdown there will be. This is the crux of the problem and is exactly why so many lost so much money copying your signal!

Now with the high risk signals - well you had full control of those - not zulu investors - and youve blown 2 accounts managing that all on your own - you cant blame investors for that and still have not offered an explaination of what you will do differently going forward to those people.

You say your not trading with an EA - you must be superman because you have positions opening at all hours of the night and day - you must never sleep... highly suspect.

The style or behavior is another point that i dont agree with - but thats largely irrelevant and subjective so ill leave that alone.

Zulu trade strategy description... WHICH i HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU ARE READING THAT DESCRIPTION AND THEN APPLYING THAT GUIDELINE TO ALL MY OTHER STRATEGIES --- but whatever now I know now that you are just here to act bothersome and continue to point out things to the public that you don't like.

Here is the drawdown chart for the Mt Cook -- Zulutrade --- low risk strategy.... and once I had taken more risk in the beginning of my trade journey to multiply my capital aggressively -- I had to allow for greater drawdown in this beginning phase.  That's why I know this system (also explained by Edward Thorp in his excellent books about the Kelly Investment Criterion) has worked in the past --- and it has been my latest objective to apply this same mathematics and statistics to one of high risk... but this has been more challenging than with one of lower risk, for obvious reasons.

I then dialed down my risk after a certain point of proving myself, capturing trading capital, as I didn't need to capture so much profit for my investors who had invested with me hoping for only 5% per month instead of more.  That is why you can see on the chart the change.  This is what I have achieved on the longest track record for 24 months, the one most investors are enjoying for profit sharing or trade copying.

And just by the way, people like you; who go around bullying others into doing what they want, no matter what they have to do.... ruin it for everyone else who acts decently and respects me for what I do.  I don't want to help you.  No way.  And I will not.  You made your own foolish mistakes and you can dig yourself out.  I will help people who are decent and good natured and who acknowledge that regardless of what losses have occurred it is not my obligation to dig you out.  This is not anywhere in the agreement between copy providers and their investors.  What is written though are a lot of warnings about high risk and how to manage your risk of your own account.

Quote
u must be superman because you have positions opening at all hours of the night and day - you must never sleep... highly suspect.

I have pushed myself in tremendously inhuman ways because I promised myself I would gain profitability for my 4 kids that I have been fighting for in family court for 4.5 years.  Yes I wake up some nights 5 times, I go to bed at 3am many nights after the US session is over, I plan during Asian session, and I trade with swollen feet the rest of the day.  I have gone from no job, no money, and no house in 2 years to earning $40,000 usd last month.

(https://i.ibb.co/kJ8t4mS/Drawdown-Low-Risk.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VxSsgwq)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 02, 2019, 11:28:27 AM

Zulu trade strategy description... WHICH i HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU ARE READING THAT DESCRIPTION AND THEN APPLYING THAT GUIDELINE TO ALL MY OTHER STRATEGIES --- but whatever now I know now that you are just here to act bothersome and continue to point out things to the public that you don't like.

I have not applied that description to your other accounts! i just read the description and looked at the drawdown chart of nearly 30% - only now in your previous post have you offered an explanation as to why its been this high in the past!
Quote

And just by the way, people like you; who go around bullying others into doing what they want, no matter what they have to do.... ruin it for everyone else who acts decently and respects me for what I do.  I don't want to help you.  No way.  And I will not.  You made your own foolish mistakes and you can dig yourself out.  I will help people who are decent and good natured and who acknowledge that regardless of what losses have occurred it is not my obligation to dig you out.  This is not anywhere in the agreement between copy providers and their investors.  What is written though are a lot of warnings about high risk and how to manage your risk of your own account.

Im not a bully, but rather a shrewd investor that knows how to spot a dodgy signal when i see one. Your perfectly happy going around spruiking your signals all over the net - but as soon as someone calls you out for not only blowing 2 high risk accounts, failing to adhere to your stated stop losses or attempting to clarify stated drawdown management on your low risk account - you cry innocent, call me nasty and foolish and get all personal about it!

Its perfectly OK Greg - i do not need your help, my account is doing just fine since i cut my losses and stopped following your horrendous "low risk" signal  :) ;
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 02, 2019, 11:33:36 AM
I think we all need to focus on what is important. Yes the high risk account blown up and this should be a lesson for who want to follow a signal like OTB. Pointing fingers will not do any good to anyone.

I learned my lesson and I moved on with this loss. The good things is that I diversity my investment.

Good luck to all of us.

alaali, I could not agree more. In my 14 years in forex,  have seen many accounts blown up by very skilled traders and I have blown up some myself, sometimes having little to do with me but the technology; anything from a weekend gap to a server crash to a pending order which somehow got forgotten during a high impact news report. Risk is inherent in Forex trading and anyone coming to this neck of the woods should have a personality check as to why they are in this sphere of investments.

The one thing I must note here which stands out unlike other cases I have seen, Greg has hung on trying to answer all our questions as best he can and under the most difficult circumstance, unlike other traders, who after having their account blown, simply move on under the darkness of anonymity and start anew, days later, enticing the multitude of online investors, looking for the next thrill.

I think as you say, move on and I would ask Greg to do likewise. I think this discussion is over. Let's end this and give a few days in this weekend too cool down and rest and reflect.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: jwatts7701 on February 05, 2019, 06:24:27 PM
I very much agree with all you have stated Humble. I really appreciate the transparency Greg puts out there, as he is really setting the stage nicely for other managers by doing so. But, we can all see, that the forums are going to drive this guy insane at some point >> probably every time there is a drawdown. It seems to be a reoccuring pattern. In times of profit. Everyone is cool. In times of drawdowns the trolls come out of the shadows and look for any reason possible to worsen an already tough situation. Those are the times that probably a manual trader needs more focus, attention, support, and clear mind for analysis than any other times. I guess that might be the way it will always be.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 06, 2019, 03:26:00 AM
2019 Performance for low risk strategy (http://"http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347"): 2.06%
2019 Performance for medium risk strategy (http://"http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172"): 3.17% (This new signal will be released on SimpleTrader this week)


** Three high risk signals are still open, and one has closed. You can view these at MyFXBook, MQL5, HotForex Copy and SignalStart. One will be released here at SimpleTrader next week.

I know my true potential and what I'm capable of. Not giving up forex world, keep testing me, keep knocking me down. What you'll find is that I keep getting back up, despite a bloody nose, despite the sweat and tears. I will never settle for average, I'm going for greatness. Bring it on!

I will be limiting my public interaction and direct messaging from this point forwards.
Markets fluctuate and for this reason risk management, a trade plan with a consistent edge, and a patient, disciplined, emotional/psychological self regulation is paramount.


Due to recent high risk "temporary troubles" I have learned that it is no longer necessary for me to be so accessible, open, and giving with my analysis, assurances, and plans.
I will continue to make monthly updates, and I will contribute more of my time and public engagement in trading discussions with other positive-minded and encouraging professionals, as I see this is more conducive to my long-term success and vitality. I have enough online exposure, a growing number of large investors, and later this year this will eventually mean closing down my low, medium, and high risk trade copying signals to protect my private activity on behalf of clients in my funds at Darwinex, Mt Cook, and AxiSelect.

(https://i.ibb.co/2tfcJ5H/nevergiveup2.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 06, 2019, 06:10:24 AM
coming soon. this week or next.

High Risk re-vamp at SimpleTrader..... New high risk signal (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10720/Outside-the-Box-Zero-Spread-High-Risk.html)

Medium Risk at SimpleTrader..... new medium risk trade copying signal (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10702/Outside-the-Box-Medium-Risk.html)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on February 06, 2019, 06:29:27 AM
Hi Greg,

Thanks for the info and heads up. The link to the Medium Risk strat has typos in it and the correct link is https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10702/Outside-the-Box-Medium-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10702/Outside-the-Box-Medium-Risk.html).

Thanks.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 06, 2019, 08:23:40 AM
2019 Performance for low risk strategy (http://"http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347"): 2.06%
2019 Performance for medium risk strategy (http://"http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172"): 3.17% (This new signal will be released on SimpleTrader this week)



(https://i.ibb.co/2tfcJ5H/nevergiveup2.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Greg, you have no idea what you are doing and one day the laws of the universe will take their course and you will crash. You simple just can't stay so lucky for so long.

Your strategy is a pure hold and pray mixed with martingale. No science behind that and only beginners will invest in you.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 06, 2019, 08:45:57 AM

Greg, you have no idea what you are doing and one day the laws of the universe will take their course and you will crash. You simple just can't stay so lucky for so long.

Your strategy is a pure hold and pray mixed with martingale. No science behind that and only beginners will invest in you.

You are entitled to your opinion.
The "laws of the universe" are subject to a loving, all powerful God, and he has given me the power to generate wealth, wisdom, discipline, and skill.  So what you say makes no sense at all to me or to my many satisfied clients.
On Darwinex I've won 3 straight trading competitions. And have $200,000 AuM.
On AxiSelect the CEO is multiplying my capital 5x this next week as I have reached thru 3 stages to be "pro" on their platform.
On Mt Cook I just got whale investor from Dubai of $100,000
On ZuluTrade I have $500,000 following my strategy.

how about you, Mr 377 posts on his forum?
what track record do you have to show for your expertise?  with what growth?  what max risk to average profit ratio?
what assets are you managing?  And how much?
My total funds I am managing directly is about $800,000 and if you included copy trading funds, it could be around 2 million or more. Not bad for 2 years of executing my strategies.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 06, 2019, 10:52:55 AM
Greg, this has nothing to do with how many suckers have invested in you.

Your system is a hold and pray, your recovery method relies heavily on martingaling within the same bad trade set-up.

The universe abides by mathematics and the law of probabilities. So the probability for you to survive is literally a one out of a billion. Or shall I say impossible? 

Bottom line: You don't know how to trade Greg. You might fool those who know nothing about investing in Forex. But anyone with the slightest experience in this market will never be fooled by you. Your trading system is a classic text book time bomb.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 06, 2019, 11:27:31 AM
Greg, this has nothing to do with how many suckers have invested in you.

Your system is a hold and pray, your recovery method relies heavily on martingaling within the same bad trade set-up.

The universe abides by mathematics and the law of probabilities. So the probability for you to survive is literally a one out of a billion. Or shall I say impossible? 

Bottom line: You don't know how to trade Greg. You might fool those who know nothing about investing in Forex. But anyone with the slightest experience in this market will never be fooled by you. Your trading system is a classic text book time bomb.

bottom line:  this is your opinion and you have chosen to communicate it on a public forum in a disgraceful and rude way. Your abusive and harassing comments have been reported to the moderator.  You can go somewhere else if you don't like my profitable, consistent, reliable strategy of 24 months.  Don't waste my time or the time of others who do want to make money following this strategy.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on February 06, 2019, 11:47:08 AM
This is getting out of hand.

@Nasdaq100 - you have made your point. Criticising his trading strategies I get but calling his investors, some of who are members of this forum suckers is crossing the line. Keep it nice please.

@outsidetheboxhk - this is your thread and that is taken into account. Travel the higher path and try not to take it personally. It's a public forum and haters will hate.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 06, 2019, 12:46:21 PM
This is getting out of hand.

@Nasdaq100 - you have made your point. Criticising his trading strategies I get but calling his investors, some of who are members of this forum suckers is crossing the line. Keep it nice please.

@outsidetheboxhk - this is your thread and that is taken into account. Travel the higher path and try not to take it personally. It's a public forum and haters will hate.

I think @Nasdaq100, has moved from being a constructive critique into hate speech which no one here appreciates.

@Nasdaq100, we value intelligent, well-educated forex traders and strategists but you have crossed a serious line. I think you owe Greg an apology; please do so.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: FLechdrop on February 06, 2019, 01:02:58 PM
I think a vendor/fund manager who comes here to promote his product to clients should expect to be criticised, especially if he blows up an account.

Of course civil language is important, but I don't understand why the moderators are defending the one who comes here to sell something more than the forum member who criticises him. Especially if the former seems to suggest that criticism is not allowed here on this thread.

I think forum members are mature enough to read the arguments on both sides and make up their own minds.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on February 06, 2019, 01:12:44 PM
I think a vendor/fund manager who comes here to promote his product to clients should expect to be criticised, especially if he blows up an account.

Of course civil language is important, but I don't understand why the moderators are defending the one who comes here to sell something more than the forum member who criticises him. Especially if the former seems to suggest that criticism is not allowed here on this thread.

I think forum members are mature enough to read the arguments on both sides and make up their own minds.

A formal complaint was lodged and has been addressed. Let moderators do their job as dictated by forum rules.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: FLechdrop on February 06, 2019, 01:16:19 PM
I am not preventing you from doing your job, just noting that I find this slightly confusing.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on February 06, 2019, 01:19:11 PM
I am not preventing you from doing your job, just noting that I find this slightly confusing.

I completely understand that as you would be unaware of communications going on behind the scenes. Rest easy knowing it is under control.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 06, 2019, 01:26:29 PM
This is getting out of hand.

@Nasdaq100 - you have made your point. Criticising his trading strategies I get but calling his investors, some of who are members of this forum suckers is crossing the line. Keep it nice please.

@outsidetheboxhk - this is your thread and that is taken into account. Travel the higher path and try not to take it personally. It's a public forum and haters will hate.

I think @Nasdaq100, has moved from being a constructive critique into hate speech which no one here appreciates.

@Nasdaq100, we value intelligent, well-educated forex traders and strategists but you have crossed a serious line. I think you owe Greg an apology; please do so.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Perhaps I owe the community an apology for stating that investors in this type of rubbish are suckers.

But not to this vendor.

I think you as a moderator MUST allow the freedom of speech on this forum. And you are not doing a good job here.

All I did was stating facts. Its a fact that this system is a hold and pray martingale. its very obvious.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on February 06, 2019, 01:35:34 PM
This is getting out of hand.

@Nasdaq100 - you have made your point. Criticising his trading strategies I get but calling his investors, some of who are members of this forum suckers is crossing the line. Keep it nice please.

@outsidetheboxhk - this is your thread and that is taken into account. Travel the higher path and try not to take it personally. It's a public forum and haters will hate.

I think @Nasdaq100, has moved from being a constructive critique into hate speech which no one here appreciates.

@Nasdaq100, we value intelligent, well-educated forex traders and strategists but you have crossed a serious line. I think you owe Greg an apology; please do so.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Perhaps I owe the community an apology for stating that investors in this type of rubbish are suckers.

But not to this vendor.

I think you as a moderator MUST allow the freedom of speech on this forum. And you are not doing a good job here.

All I did was stating facts. Its a fact that this system is a hold and pray martingale. its very obvious.

We are following forum rules and protocol. Abusing/insulting fellow members is unacceptable and nothing to do with free speech. A valid complaint was lodged and it was actioned. You choose to ignore a formal warning and extend it to questioning moderators actions.........an unwise choice.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 06, 2019, 01:43:20 PM
This is getting out of hand.

@Nasdaq100 - you have made your point. Criticising his trading strategies I get but calling his investors, some of who are members of this forum suckers is crossing the line. Keep it nice please.

@outsidetheboxhk - this is your thread and that is taken into account. Travel the higher path and try not to take it personally. It's a public forum and haters will hate.

I think @Nasdaq100, has moved from being a constructive critique into hate speech which no one here appreciates.

@Nasdaq100, we value intelligent, well-educated forex traders and strategists but you have crossed a serious line. I think you owe Greg an apology; please do so.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Perhaps I owe the community an apology for stating that investors in this type of rubbish are suckers.

But not to this vendor.

I think you as a moderator MUST allow the freedom of speech on this forum. And you are not doing a good job here.

All I did was stating facts. Its a fact that this system is a hold and pray martingale. its very obvious.

Do you know how tired I am and other traders are of people throwing mud, many times not asking non-accusatory questions first, before the smackdown escalates into cyber bullying and trolling?
Do you know how much I've had to deal with this over 2 years?
How seedy, undignified, scammy, and unprofessional the forex industry is.
I was a classroom teacher for 15 years, and I always protected my classroom from the expression that is hurtful and inconsiderate.  There is always a way to express yourself, without being forceful and/or destructive.
Do these comments build into our community?
Do they help us fix the problems you are complaining about?
It hurts because I try so hard to be open and honest, even when I have a full load on my shoulders apart from answering questions and responding to constructive comments.  Go back and read this long thread, and you will see that I am genuine in my quest to help others be profitable and I am doing my absolute best -- earning 100% of my income from trading proceeds, so to infer that I am skill-less, money hungry, and willfully disregarding the guidelines I have laid down is disingenuous.

The fallout from cyberharassment, cyber bullying, and unsupervised trolling has been growing at an alarming rate, and people just continue saying "this is my right". 
Rights carry responsibilities.
We have many rights, but they always require work and discipline, otherwise you lose them.

Please read this insightful article "Free Speech Does Not Protect Cyberharassment" for more info.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/08/19/the-war-against-online-trolls/free-speech-does-not-protect-cyberharassment
 (https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/08/19/the-war-against-online-trolls/free-speech-does-not-protect-cyberharassment)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: HFT Group on February 06, 2019, 01:51:36 PM
@outsidetheboxhk - I edited your post as the copy and paste info was unneccesary due to the issue being dealt with while you were writing it.

The issue is closed. Any further comments will be deemed uneccessary and deleted.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: donnaforex on February 06, 2019, 03:40:35 PM
I think disgruntled members have every right to complain about losing a lot of money and systems blowing up. It's what the forum is here for and they certainly have every right to talk about it, these are facts. People get upset when a system fails and money is lost. Yes, no one has a holy grail, but it is incredibly short-sighted to think that everyone is going to be friendly and positive in case of worst-case scenarios. If the seller of the system cannot handle negative criticism during strategy low points they should not be on a public forum or should hire PR / a friendly trader to be their public representative (or take a break) - the bigger their business becomes the more important this issue is. This isn't a shop - it is a place to share opinions and experiences of trading strategies - the fact some sellers here get sales and can make money from our members positive opinions of them is a side-point.

It crosses the line when it becomes personal attacks however. I get that it's hard to remain completely chill about something when there is a lot of money on the line. The rules are here to try to encourage us to be as nice as possible to each other. It's not here to stifle truth or opinion or stop someone saying that a system isn't good for whatever reason they think is true. Especially not when there is history and evidence to back it up.

But please - let's not get personal. That's all i ask. If anyone wants to discuss this further please let's take it private.


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 10, 2019, 02:16:17 AM
For traders -- it's called NeuroFinance ---https://f.bpcdn.co/original/3X/e/0/e09a14563ceb760bbb07822f67663d4aae2581b2.pdf (https://f.bpcdn.co/original/3X/e/0/e09a14563ceb760bbb07822f67663d4aae2581b2.pdf)

Neurofinance is an emerging field of research which aims at improving the micro foundation of financial decisions, through the exploitation of an interdisciplinary approach that merges economics, neuroscience and psychology. Neurofinance is a very young discipline. It tries to relate the brain processes to the investment behaviour. Most of the research in the domain of neurofinance focus on trading behaviour. It would be interesting to explore the workings of the brain for other investment behaviours too like personal financial planning decisions, etc.

I see more and more trolling everywhere, people pretending, deceiving, hiding, fabricating, manufacturing -- all in an effort to manipulate and hijack the perception of individuals or groups or society as a whole.
Isn't the truth good enough for you? if not, why not?

Now going so far as to say the dreaded regulators are coming for me.
Yea, as if.  Listen to yourself if you have become this person.
Take some time off to reflect and re-energize.
Please go see a psychiatrist and learn why you think and behave the way you do.
Potentially this could be a panacea / goldmine for you. Mine your gold.



Here's why it's smart and compassionate (and positive for your trading psychology) to keep it simple and focused
There's not much you can do about "trolls" except starve them and get busy doing your craft, growing stronger as they die a little more each day.
The broad context is that there are people always looking to feel offended about something. They feel good when they're outraged about something, maybe they feel good ONLY when they're outraged.

I have learned much about official psychiatric definitions in the past 4 years of highly contested, high conflict, abnormally brutal divorce involving my 4 kids, but as far as I'm concerned, this is addiction too -- addictive psychology.
I have watched 1000's of hours of psychology videos and forensic criminology videos ---
What nearly killed me has made me stronger and more knowledgeable and more skilled at money printing.

Jonathan Bernstein talks about the "outrage trap". It's a method bad actors use to manufacture an activist group, usually for corrupt purposes. Since there's little fact-checking these days, they can make up whatever they want, and there'll be outrage addicts who'll fall for it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-are-addicted-to-outrage/2017/10/03/ffb3c712-a854-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?fbclid=IwAR3rQySS_BheRzY0J4tt-kS1S5k1TzGUPb6lBzP08RIPN3h-CXThIzxEJhw&utm_term=.7a476eb84fe31 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-are-addicted-to-outrage/2017/10/03/ffb3c712-a854-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?fbclid=IwAR3rQySS_BheRzY0J4tt-kS1S5k1TzGUPb6lBzP08RIPN3h-CXThIzxEJhw&utm_term=.7a476eb84fe31)

for @Humble Trader's Fx
(https://thenextfamily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/the_giving_tree_by_nortiker-d6bw5s4.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: AttilaG on February 10, 2019, 11:51:50 AM
  Remember   Reborn and Viper and all the other signal providers  ?
  They also had a few million invested in them  and what happened  in the end !  The ending is always the same
   the question is when ?  :):):)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 10, 2019, 12:05:06 PM
  Remember   Reborn and Viper and all the other signal providers  ?
  They also had a few million invested in them  and what happened  in the end !  The ending is always the same
   the question is when ?  :):):)

Do more research.
You are only partially correct.  I have studied their lives probably more than you.
I also know others who you haven't mentioned.  Enough to encourage me to keep fighting.
Trade copying is only the beginning for those who survive to finally go private.
The end of their stories is not recorded online, which might be why you are not mentioning them.
These others now run private funds, trade their own capital, or work as trading professionals.

"These mountains you're carrying, you were only meant to climb"

https://www.instagram.com/p/BttjoRjBFIH/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/BttjoRjBFIH/)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 12, 2019, 12:14:24 PM
The ending is always the same with Grid based systems - its only a matter of time. i could show you dozens of grid systems that survived as long as OTBHK has provided the risk is turned down low - but there is always an end some day when a strong trend forms and simply keeps on going for a long period of time - any experienced trader knows this.

The only trouble with this business is there is a never ending supply of lemming investors willing to follow a trader off a cliff, which perpetuates the ability of irresponsible traders to offer signals to market.

Greg-  Take your UJ short positions you have open now - these are very expensive to hold, circa 7 pips per week with my broker ICM - even more with some other brokers... If the current trend keeps going and takes it upto 111 and beyond- then stays above 111 for the next 12 months  - how will you manage that situation should it eventuate? How will you evaluate at what point the swap costs are killing you to hold them and the loosing positions should be closed? If the price did keep going up - will you keep opening more and more sells and keep averaging up like youve already done? When do you stop if the price doesnt?
Do you have a plan for this or do you simply believe god will prevent that from happening?


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 12, 2019, 01:05:27 PM
you obviously don't know how to compute the profitability and edge of my system.

hit rate:  94%
average pip gain:  10.6 pips
average pip loss:  73 pips
number of trades:  1227

this is not going to blow up.  low risk.
similar stats for medium risk and some high risk.  take profits while you can on high risk.
start over once one blows up.

I made over $100,000 last year. 
$800,000 AuM
$2,000,000 funds following on trade copying
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 13, 2019, 07:51:22 AM
you obviously don't know how to compute the profitability and edge of my system.

hit rate:  94%
average pip gain:  10.6 pips
average pip loss:  73 pips
number of trades:  1227

this is not going to blow up.  low risk.
similar stats for medium risk and some high risk.  take profits while you can on high risk.
start over once one blows up.

I made over $100,000 last year. 
$800,000 AuM
$2,000,000 funds following on trade copying

You like to talk about speaking respectfully - did you consider your words carefully with your above retort?

YOU OBVIOUSLY cannot read or comprehend what i asked you properly... ::)

I politely asked you how you would manage a situation pertaining to drawdown and negative swaps, aswell as a couple of other things. I also noted that your statistics about win rate and profitability can be replicated by many Grid based systems over a reasonably long period of time at low risk settings and it means nothing about the future success or failure of your system.
What i simply wanted you to address - for the benefit of anyone considering investing with you - is to hear what your plan is for managing a situation where a long term trend forms against your positions - and in particular - a situation where the positions have high holding costs in swaps - such as the UJ positions you hold now.

Im not being mean or nasty here Greg - i just want honest infomation from you. I admit i havnt been completely honest with you either - my multiple forex trade following accounts also exceed $100k. I allocated a small part of 1 of my accounts to your system briefly - but i did not like what i saw and so withdrew from it. I still check up on it frequently however.
I am always looking at different systems and methods to trade and how i can invest my money in ways that are profitable. If you are to attract serious investors to your signal - i think you need to do better than what ive seen both in your trading risk taking and what youve written in these social spaces.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 13, 2019, 10:25:51 AM
Quote
but there is always an end some day when a strong trend forms and simply keeps on going for a long period of time - any experienced trader knows this.

You don't need to write this here.  Or the stuff about not closing enough of a core position, because it doesn't apply to my trade plan or execution.  I don't reveal ALL the nitty gritty of my trading skills day to day, but needless to say I always manage risk by scaling in and scaling out of secondary trades intraday to collect enough profit to more than cover costs for swap. Yesterday I made $32 while swap was $5.  No biggie.  I'm positioning for a big velocity move once risk turns.

My prospective clients or subscribers can do their own analysis and decisions without you pointing them without sufficient data, instruction, or strategy.  This is my job if they want to know they can ask me directly.  You only need to look at my equity curve, and ratio between max risk over the span of 18 months for the current master account and 24 months for the longer one on low risk to see that monthly average profits are recovering from short drawdown periods and compounding capital.

My max risk for a basket is 7 to 9% before I consider scaling out.  We are currently at 3.5% open drawdown with 3.5% booked profit.
implying or saying that I have not comprehended or read is just rubbish.  I know far more and understand far more than I care to explain when it is me doing the trading 15 hours per day, and honestly micro-managing my trading is extremely counter-productive.  You can manage your own account without knowing my every move intraday and intraweek.

Bear in mind ONE important thing.  Signal copiers who are "serious" and make serious profits piggy back off me is NOT what I am seeking.  They are not compensating me what I am worth.  That will be phased out this year with 2.5 year to 3 year profitable track record and then everyone will be pushed to up the ante to keep following me into the future the way other big investors are doing.  25 to 30% high water mark performance fees without the need to explain day in and day out to investors who have their own accounts.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 14, 2019, 08:10:55 AM
You say i dont need to write this here? of course i do not need to do anything here - i choose to - however the same thing applies equally to you!

For example - you dont need to repeatedly tell people to look at your equity curve, or your 24 months track record - again diverting attention away from more relevant data. You say things like booked profit of 3.5% this week - but you still hold vastly more than that in DD and floating PnL! So do you really need to write that here?

Heres relvant data that i see - all verifiable by your account data on myfxbook mt cook master account;
Your profitiability over the last 4 months;
nov 2018 -> total profit 5.6%, max drawdown = 11.3%
dec 2018 -> total profit 4.0%, max drawdown = negligible
Jan 2019 -> total profit -0.1%, max drawdown = 6.3%
Feb 2019 -> total profit 3.6% with a floating PnL - of -$450 which means your equity and floating PnL is still so far negative in this current month, max DD 6.2%.

The above data shows that your drawdown considerably exceeds your profit and therefore the trade accuracy is poor and its the same  right throughout your history where the DD is constantly higher than the profit. A good system would consistently have the monthly profit higher than the DD.

This type of data is much more important when considering the survive-ability of the system. The continual averaging of loosing positions in your grid like system keeps your equity curve just barely above CPI over the last quarter. An average person would do better keeping their cash in an offset account against their home mortgage rather than take the risks of forex trading with this system... Of course you could increase the risks on the account - but then again you already tried that and blew up 2 accounts in the process... As a simple experiment - im tempted to open contrarian positions to everyone of yours in a cent account and see which account does better over the next 3 months- i doubt there would be much if any difference!

Everytime i ask you about how you manage your system, which is extremely relevant information because the risks and flaws associated with grid and martingale systems are very well known and publicized - you get all defensive about it which does nothing to inspire any investor confidence im afraid. Nothing youve explained or written here addresses the key points of why your grid system will not be prone to the same failures of other grid systems which have proven to be flawed. If your system truly is different - then you should simply take the time to explain why instead of insulting peoples intelligence by pointing them to meaningless data for confirmation... Grid systems are great for signal provider commissions tho, so i guess your on the right path and i see you like boasting about your earnings - you wont get any argument from me on that...





Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 14, 2019, 12:39:44 PM
Heres an interesting development... using the back testing simulator on zulu trade - i was able to input various parameters with a contrarian setting of your last 3 months history. I used a TP of 100 pips and a SL of 30 pips and switched buys to sells and visa versa. The blue line is your real live equity, the green line shows the contrarian setting i created. Its almost an exact mirror of the curve finishing at the same final equity 3 months later...

The second chart shows a back test over 6 months, again with contrarian settings  - which equity curve do you like better? i think i prefer the contrarian setting... maybe because it also has a RRR of 3:1...

This goes along way as far as suggesting that your system doesnt really have an edge - its just hold and prey grid trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 14, 2019, 12:55:09 PM
Heres an interesting development... using the back testing simulator on zulu trade - i was able to input various parameters with a contrarian setting of your last 3 months history. I used a TP of 100 pips and a SL of 30 pips and switched buys to sells and visa versa. The blue line is your real live equity, the green line shows the contrarian setting i created. Its almost an exact mirror of the curve finishing at the same final equity 3 months later...

This goes along way as far as suggesting that your system doesnt really have an edge - its just hold and prey grid trading.

Groper, could you please explain how this tool work and how can you suggest that his system is a hold and pray?

How can zulu provide such tools when nearly all there systems (99%) are hold and pray, its bad for their business.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 14, 2019, 01:14:08 PM
i knew i would sneak up on it eventually - but here is the final setting after spending all of 10 mins tweaking it;

My settings contrarian to OTBHK with a 8:1 RRR - TP = 55pips and SL = 7 pips and offset=15 setting. my (green) contrarian settings have a 10% better ROI over 6 months back test history (462 trades) than OTBHK... all this with a CONTRARIAN setting! Look at that equity curve! who wouldnt want the green one??? and drawdown never exceeding 7 pips per position. i might start trading this on a demo account and we will see where we are in a few months shall we?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 14, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
Heres an interesting development... using the back testing simulator on zulu trade - i was able to input various parameters with a contrarian setting of your last 3 months history. I used a TP of 100 pips and a SL of 30 pips and switched buys to sells and visa versa. The blue line is your real live equity, the green line shows the contrarian setting i created. Its almost an exact mirror of the curve finishing at the same final equity 3 months later...

This goes along way as far as suggesting that your system doesnt really have an edge - its just hold and prey grid trading.

Groper, could you please explain how this tool work and how can you suggest that his system is a hold and pray?

How can zulu provide such tools when nearly all there systems (99%) are hold and pray, its bad for their business.

Yes i know most signals are rubbish on zulutrade...
There is a back testing tool which you can use and it uses the traders history obtained from their broker.
The system is hold and prey because you can get equal or better results - as i have shown above - by taking a contrarian approach and have it equal or better than the signal your mirroring. If the signal had a real edge - you could never achieve a profitable result like this.

So in essence - the way the system works is just like any other grid EA. It simply opens positions and closes them at a set TP like a scalper. When a trend forms - it goes into DD and keeps opening positions averaging down/up and eventually gets a market turn which allows them to close. If the market doesnt turn - they either stop out at a huge SL or they hold them indefinitely in DD... usually the system can make a profit because the market rarely goes in a straight line. However when it does - the strategy gets wiped out or simply becomes unprofitable is risk is kept small for the account size.
The whole time this is happening - the trader gets rich of pip comissions for every position opened. Clear as mud? of course it is :)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on February 14, 2019, 01:33:09 PM
Dear groper,

that's amateur thinking! You should be trading both really. A lot of the time you'll be hedged anyway and then you'll collect profits first one way and then the other way. Perfect plan.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 14, 2019, 01:56:16 PM
i knew i would sneak up on it eventually - but here is the final setting after spending all of 10 mins tweaking it;

My settings contrarian to yours with a 8:1 RRR - TP = 55pips and SL = 7 pips and offset=15 setting. my (green) contrarian settings have a 10% better ROI over 6 months back test history (462 trades) than yours... all this with a CONTRARIAN setting! Look at that equity curve! who wouldnt want the green one??? and drawdown never exceeding 7 pips per position. i might start trading this on a demo account and we will see where we are in a few months shall we?



Fine.  Now do it NOT back testing.
Real live trading, without automation, without hind sight, without using my choices to help you.
Then come back and show us in 6 months.
you'll be a millionaire.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 14, 2019, 01:58:07 PM
I say this, because I know it's not that easy.
What about entry levels?
Who decides when to enter the market and at what lot size?
Anyway, dude, just get busy doing it yourself. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: gpfwestie on February 14, 2019, 03:19:26 PM
i knew i would sneak up on it eventually - but here is the final setting after spending all of 10 mins tweaking it;

My settings contrarian to OTBHK with a 8:1 RRR - TP = 55pips and SL = 7 pips and offset=15 setting. my (green) contrarian settings have a 10% better ROI over 6 months back test history (462 trades) than OTBHK...

Hi Groper, I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, but I don't think this is a valid point.

I've spent way to much time coding EA's, back testing them and running through the MT4 Optimisation thing  >:(

What I have learnt is - you can take any kind of system, give it enough parameters and get it to produce a profit (curve fitting). Effectively you just tune it to work perfectly with the exact data you gave it. If you feed it any other data (out of set data) it'll fail nearly 100% of the time.

What you've done here seems pretty similar, take the entry history from the signal, fiddle with some numbers till you got the result you were looking for.

Just my opinion, quite happy to be wrong  :)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 14, 2019, 03:36:00 PM
fiddle with some numbers till you got the result you were looking for.

Exactly what courage and risk-taking is all about.
Then people with back-testing and hind sight come in and criticise you saying they can do better by looking back and somehow knowing what to do in the heat of the moment -- but you don't have that advantage when you live in the present time and real world.
That is why I hate giving explanations and defenses of what I have achieved, because really investors just want to have an ATM machine with no drawdowns or else they will emotionally breakdown and cry.  This is why they pay us to do it for them.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 14, 2019, 09:16:33 PM
i knew i would sneak up on it eventually - but here is the final setting after spending all of 10 mins tweaking it;

My settings contrarian to OTBHK with a 8:1 RRR - TP = 55pips and SL = 7 pips and offset=15 setting. my (green) contrarian settings have a 10% better ROI over 6 months back test history (462 trades) than OTBHK...

Hi Groper, I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, but I don't think this is a valid point.

I've spent way to much time coding EA's, back testing them and running through the MT4 Optimisation thing  >:(

What I have learnt is - you can take any kind of system, give it enough parameters and get it to produce a profit (curve fitting). Effectively you just tune it to work perfectly with the exact data you gave it. If you feed it any other data (out of set data) it'll fail nearly 100% of the time.

What you've done here seems pretty similar, take the entry history from the signal, fiddle with some numbers till you got the result you were looking for.

Just my opinion, quite happy to be wrong  :)

I completely agree with you on being able to fiddle the numbers and get a result closer to what your looking for- 100% agree. However ive never been able to get remotely close to the profit generated by a good signal in this way that i have here- in fact, taking a contrarian approach usually results in consistent losses which blows up the account quite quickly. I found this not to be the case with OTBHK history - it was very easy to get results similar to his profits with minimal tweaking of the contrarian approach- i was even able to considerably exceed his profits with more tweaking. I believe it to be the case because the fundamental basis behind his system is a basic grid EA which simply takes an arbitrary position in the market and either scalps TP or holds in DD until close and therefore it will work for given period of time any which way - same as any other grid EA, until a strong trend eventually makes it unprofitable...

If your familiar with coding EAs - perhaps you would share your knowledge about grid EAs and your views about OTBHKs signal - i am now 100% convinced OTBHKs signal is generated by a cheap grid EA despite gregs denials about this after playing with the back testing of his trade history - i would appreciate your opinion on it!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on February 14, 2019, 11:27:10 PM
The so called contrarian approach depends greatly on entry accuracy of the original trades. The worse they are the better chances you have of making profit trading the opposite way. Grid trading is probably as good as it gets for this approach and on the other end of the spectrum is a system with tight stops where you'd get killed very quickly.

The fact that something is a grid system is by itself not immediately a disaster. Whether it's completely automated or with a good trader behind the wheel - the important thing is that the basket is terminated when the signs are there telling you it's unlikely to come back. And that's where most of them fail. They are either poor at getting this balance right (hence hitting SL too often and too far) or simply relying on the whole equity which eventually blows the whole project up.

I haven't looked into it too deeply but what Greg's doing here is somewhat similar to what Viper was doing. There were many trades within a basket of sorts but they were hardly ever treated as a whole. Meaning trades were closed either individually or as sub-baskets. Viper did not (from memory) escalate lot sizes, Greg does but again not like you'd expect from a grid system that exits the whole basket in one go. At least at this time he's not doing it like that. I'm not sure this fits what you're calling "basic grid EA".

There is of course this issue of knowing when to get out. With the last "high risk signal" that blew up he did not know when to get out. Not only because it blew up but also because of the price action that was just not very bearish. You could say that he got unlucky because he blew up pretty much at the turning point it turned out. But that's hindsight and it could easily just go up more. Running any kind of grid EA very hot is of course pretty dangerous because it tends to get unstable at the most inappropriate of times. Does it mean that he'll get in trouble with low risk systems as well? It will certainly take longer to get in trouble and it's much easier to devise a plan to minimize losses. But losses you have to take. You have to get out when it makes sense to get out not because you're running out of margin or self imposed DD limit. That's usually the worst time to close trades.

If you only have access to equity you can make some conclusions. You'd need access to individual trades to make more conclusions. Or better ones. At the very least you'd have to take a look at losing trades.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 15, 2019, 06:52:38 AM


The fact that something is a grid system is by itself not immediately a disaster. Whether it's completely automated or with a good trader behind the wheel - the important thing is that the basket is terminated when the signs are there telling you it's unlikely to come back. And that's where most of them fail. They are either poor at getting this balance right (hence hitting SL too often and too far) or simply relying on the whole equity which eventually blows the whole project up.


In my opinion, adding to losses is not a bad idea as long as you can distinguish between market conditions that allows it.

The reason why grid systems fail all the time is because they add to losses most of the time. Which means there is absolutely no strategy involved.

For example: if your strategy gets you to buy from the 61% fibo level. If you buy and the price falls below that level then this is where you should exit and take the loss. If you don't exist every single time the price falls below the 61% fibo level, then your strategy is not based on the 61% fibo. In fact, its based on nothing but hold and pray.

That is why all grid systems fail, no matter for how long they get lucky.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on February 15, 2019, 07:54:07 AM
The difference between a one trade strategy and a grid strategy is that one trade strategies must be very accurate with entries in order to be successful whereas grid strategies (of the adding to losses variety) are designed in such a way that they can have some entry inaccuracy and they can get away with it by opening a basket of trades.

Both need a sound underlying strategy. If you don't know how to trade profitably you will not succeed with any of them. But grid trading if taken to the extreme will mask your incompetence possibly for a very long time. So the question is how do you know? Is it a good grid system or is it just a lucky incompetent guy? In my opinion the answer lies with the exits.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on February 15, 2019, 08:30:19 AM
The difference between a one trade strategy and a grid strategy is that one trade strategies must be very accurate with entries in order to be successful whereas grid strategies (of the adding to losses variety) are designed in such a way that they can have some entry inaccuracy and they can get away with it by opening a basket of trades.

Both need a sound underlying strategy. If you don't know how to trade profitably you will not succeed with any of them. But grid trading if taken to the extreme will mask your incompetence possibly for a very long time. So the question is how do you know? Is it a good grid system or is it just a lucky incompetent guy? In my opinion the answer lies with the exits.

If you know how to time your entry/exit then why trade on a grid strategy in the first place?!

for example: if you know that the eurusd downtrend will reverse from a certain point, then why would you not just wait for the likely reversal levels and enter a buy with specific stoploss?

Instead of hold on a bunch of sell trades, and expose your self to market changes (especially the currency market, trends can change literally over night) while having a very bad risk:reward ratio!


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: AttilaG on February 15, 2019, 10:58:53 AM
  It is a question  of time before this goes into oblivion ! Aiming for a private firm is the best for the trader
   the client gets a monthly report end shut up :)

  It took  5 years  for Viper to disappear after he earned 1million from Nick .
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 23, 2019, 12:31:15 AM
So to follow up on my previous postings, i went ahead and did what i said i was going to do and ive setup a demo account and applied some basic filters to OTBHK signal. The remaining trades that make it past the initial entry filters are taken in a contrarian direction to OTBHK, so buys become sells and visa versa... i wasnt expecting him to trade USDZAR and so the results would be better without them as the pip filter and SL i used was way too fine for an exotic pair like UZ and it hit SL immediately. Once a contrarian trade is triggered - there is a fixed SL and TP with positive RRR greater than 1 - usually 3:1 or thereabouts. With tight stops - there can never be DD - although i will have to accept a much lower win rate. Over time however, it could provide much safer banked profit, historical visual back test shows promising results... Im still tuning the settings tho-will see where this ends up in a few more weeks/months...

Its only a very small sample size over the last week i know - but this is what the result was so far, both screen shots assume a zero starting point from 7 days ago... the first one is OTBHK and includes floating PnL. The second is the "anti" trades on my demo... there is only a few trades, but the ones that do get triggered are usually pretty good ones - which are triggered by the bad ones from OTBHK which are triggered by a predetermined DD pips for entry... Going forward - all exostics are filtered out and will only trigger off the majors and crosses OTBHK trades...

The basis for this was simple - if OTBHK gets a trade which immediately goes 10-15pips profit, then his signal scalps the TP and we ignore those and cancel the pending order based off it when his position closes. If his signal is wrong, then he doesnt SL but instead holds them in DD - sometimes to -200pips or more.  Its the latter which im trying to catch via the tuning...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 23, 2019, 06:39:27 AM
So to follow up on my previous postings, i went ahead and did what i said i was going to do and ive setup a demo account and applied some basic filters to OTBHK signal. The remaining trades that make it past the initial entry filters are taken in a contrarian direction to OTBHK, so buys become sells and visa versa... i wasnt expecting him to trade USDZAR and so the results would be better without them as the pip filter and SL i used was way too fine for an exotic pair like UZ and it hit SL immediately. 

back test shows promising results... Im still tuning the settings tho-will see where this ends up in a few more weeks/months...

 Its the latter which im trying to catch via the tuning...

Great!
Let us know how it goes.  It will take a lot of management let me tell you.  Automated trading is not all it is cracked up to be.
Let's see your equity curve and proof that you have taken exactly all the OPPOSITE trades as my signal after 6 months.  Or even better yet 24 months, which is what I have achieved.  In that period my system has returned over 2238%.
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4/


(https://i.ibb.co/SR49Pwq/lowrisk24months.jpg) (http://[b)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 23, 2019, 10:29:44 AM
Thats not how it works Greg - it doesnt take contrarian trades to ALL of the trades you take. What happens is - when you open a position - it instantly creates a pending order in the opposite direction, at a price which is a set pip distance from your entry price. So what happens is - if you take a scalp and the entry is accurate - you get get your scalp and as soon as you close the position - it cancels the pending order created on my demo account associated with your closed position that originally created it. Then it waits for the next order, does the same, and so on and so on... This all happens automatically with no input from me.

The idea is, when you take successful scalps with little drawdown - the pending orders on my account get created but never filled as your positions are always in profit. Then those unfilled pending orders get cancelled automatically when you close your winners. So when you close a winner - it invalidates my setup and clears it.
However - when you open a position that is not accurate and goes into DD - the price moves against your position and eventually hits my pending orders lying in wait. If the price keeps going in the same direction, my position moves further into profit as your goes further into DD until my TP is hit  -OR-  the price reverses back in your favour and i get stopped out.

The main difference here is that my positions ALWAYS have a circa 3:1 RRR, with fixed SL and the account can never go into DD more than a handful of pips per position. I expect a much lower win rate than your signal - but no drawdown that goes with yours. I have no idea how profitable it will be as it cannot be back tested. Hence we will see how the forward testing goes from here on. I can say one thing tho - the more drawdown you get into and the more you try to fight a trend - the more profit my account makes!

Dont feel too disheartened tho - im running this same test against a bunch of other signals which i can see like to fight trends, use grid or matingale systems and or hold and prey type trading styles :)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 23, 2019, 11:17:42 AM
Thats not how it works Greg - it doesnt take contrarian trades to ALL of the trades you take. What happens is - when you open a position - it instantly creates a pending order in the opposite direction, at a price which is a set pip distance from your entry price. So what happens is - if you take a scalp and the entry is accurate - you get get your scalp and as soon as you close the position - it cancels the pending order created on my demo account associated with your closed position that originally created it. Then it waits for the next order, does the same, and so on and so on... This all happens automatically with no input from me.

The idea is, when you take successful scalps with little drawdown - the pending orders on my account get created but never filled as your positions are always in profit. Then those unfilled pending orders get cancelled automatically when you close your winners. So when you close a winner - it invalidates my setup and clears it.
However - when you open a position that is not accurate and goes into DD - the price moves against your position and eventually hits my pending orders lying in wait. If the price keeps going in the same direction, my position moves further into profit as your goes further into DD until my TP is hit  -OR-  the price reverses back in your favour and i get stopped out.

1.  You are using Demo account -- no skin in the game
2.  You are engaging in the markets to disprove / discredit other traders who are at least trying to make a profit
3.  Your system is built off the work of someone else
4.  You sure as hell better study my MFA/MAE chart very carefully if you want to beat my Return on Investment stats
5.  Your petulant behavior / experiments are negativity-based and not positivity-geared --- so do us all a favor - keep it to yourself.
6.  come back to me when you have over $1,000,000 assets under your management, over 400 trade copying subscribers, or 24 months of a proven profitable strategy.
7.  Thanks for causing the Barbara Streisand effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)) for my strategies
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 23, 2019, 12:06:02 PM
1. Why would i risk real money on a unknown strategy? that would be stupidity... but rest assured i have plenty of skin in the real game elsewhere...
2. Yes - and that is my prerogative to do as i wish- its a free world and freedom of information is a good thing for everyone.
3. Its based off nothing that is not possible with freely available information, and thus i can do as i wish with it. If your strategy is based off ichimoku, MACD and the likes - then isnt your strategy based off of the work of others also?
4. See attached screen shot of what might be possible with the basic and very flawed back test simulator results... i fully do not expect as good an outcome as this shows-  but i would not be surprised if it did generate some sort of profit, how much remains to be seen... your history is the blue line - the green line is the contrarian strategy.
5. Petulant?  the pot is calling the kettle black dont you think?
6. Sure thing, ill do that.  But in the meantime why dont you show me a copy of your degree in mathematics, or proof of any of the other claims you make about your skills or qualifications. I cannot see any evidence of a trained or skilled professional in your trading so the onus is on you if you wish to ethically offer your service and generate income from it. Ill take your silence on this to mean you do not have a degree at all, and have misrepresented yourself on many other fronts aswell.
7. Your welcome :)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 24, 2019, 12:12:15 AM
1. Why would i risk real money on a unknown strategy? that would be stupidity... but rest assured i have plenty of skin in the real game elsewhere...

So why would people listen to you when you haven't proven anything and you are not risking anything to prove it?

Quote
2. Yes - and that is my prerogative to do as i wish- its a free world and freedom of information is a good thing for everyone.

My trade data will not be "free" as you say for much longer, so get it while you can.  This data is valuable and it is generated by a professional and that is why to receive it real-time as actionable you must pay either a performance fee or monthly fee.


Quote
3. Its based off nothing that is not possible with freely available information, and thus i can do as i wish with it. If your strategy is based off ichimoku, MACD and the likes - then isnt your strategy based off of the work of others also?

Yes it took me at least 5 years of monitoring and watching price action on certain currency pairs to prove which indicators (and when and how) could be most predictable and repeatable.  This was a long case study in order for it to be tweaked to be most profitable and most consistent.


Quote
4. See attached screen shot of what might be possible with the basic and very flawed back test simulator results... i fully do not expect as good an outcome as this shows-  but i would not be surprised if it did generate some sort of profit, how much remains to be seen... your history is the blue line - the green line is the contrarian strategy.

This is one of the most ridiculous of your examples and very over simplified and misleading.  You probably already know why, but your purpose of being here is to just troll me no matter what, and that is why "reason" and "proven profitability" does not really rank highest on your priority list for these particular traders you would like to harass.  The ones who you say are running martingales or grids that you have decided need to be eliminated or trolled to no end.  I guess you have an axe to grind for some reason. Scam hunting is educational and funny and draws interest from societal "drama addiction" and "outrage addiction" -- https://craigconnects.org/2012/08/02/trolls-fake-trolls-and-outrage-addiction/ (https://craigconnects.org/2012/08/02/trolls-fake-trolls-and-outrage-addiction/) -- but doesn't pay.
Finding losers is easy but to make money you need the winners.

You have posted a back test using ONLY like TWO and a HALF months of my strategy. 
My data is from real live market conditions. Yours is fluff.
Why not show the back test on all the data since the beginning of the trade strategy in July 2017?
You have only chosen a time where I have recovered from drawdown as your reason you think you are so smart and I am somehow deluded after getting such great returns over 24 months --- and bringing many investors along for the ride as well.


Quote
6. Sure thing, ill do that.  But in the meantime why dont you show me a copy of your degree in mathematics, or proof of any of the other claims you make about your skills or qualifications. I cannot see any evidence of a trained or skilled professional in your trading so the onus is on you if you wish to ethically offer your service and generate income from it. Ill take your silence on this to mean you do not have a degree at all, and have misrepresented yourself on many other fronts aswell.

This is why I called you "petulant".  You act like you know something that you actually do not fully understand, but you just act like it is fact, without proving or explaining why you have the right to even question or ask. 
I don't owe you shit.
Trading is performance based, full stop.  Pure and simple.
Credentials don't mean shit in this business.  I have seen plenty of very smart techies who end up closing shop for one reason or another.  Because it is NOT ONLY due to intelligence that one becomes a good trader.  You need heart, conviction, courage, determination, and more than anything else the ability to have your own belief even when everyone else is harassing you and demeaning you.

Regardless, take a look at my LinkedIn profile.  How could I have worked at the most prestigious private school in New Zealand and Colombia and a very reputable school in Hong Kong without a verified mathematics credential?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryherron/
 (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregoryherron/)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on February 24, 2019, 01:56:38 PM
i see you are a high school teacher - with a degree in education not mathematics... congratulations, its a noble job - but it does little to instill investor confidence in your trading skills. A real degree in mathematics or statistics or economics or a dozen other fields would be a different story, but its all starting to make sense now...

Another thing-  The term "professor" - applies to post secondary school education - ie tertiary or university level - but im sure you know that. I dont see any of your employment history at that level and youve therefore misled investors by calling yourself a "professor of mathematics" which implies you were teaching at university level and clearly you have not. As you know - university level lecturers or professors generally have a degree and most likely honors or PhD in the field they teach - you have attempted to imply this without directly saying it, by calling yourself a math professor. I would urge you to change your strategy descriptions across all the platforms you send signals from to remove the misleading references to you being a "mathematics professor". Failure to do so - may open the doors to legal action against you for providing misleading information to investors. You are a secondary school math teacher - not a math professor.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 24, 2019, 05:37:02 PM
i see you are a high school teacher - with a degree in education not mathematics... congratulations, its a noble job - but it does little to instill investor confidence in your trading skills. A real degree in mathematics or statistics or economics or a dozen other fields would be a different story, but its all starting to make sense now...

Another thing-  The term "professor" - applies to post secondary school education - ie tertiary or university level - but im sure you know that. I dont see any of your employment history at that level and youve therefore misled investors by calling yourself a "professor of mathematics" which implies you were teaching at university level and clearly you have not. As you know - university level lecturers or professors generally have a degree and most likely honors or PhD in the field they teach - you have attempted to imply this without directly saying it, by calling yourself a math professor. I would urge you to change your strategy descriptions across all the platforms you send signals from to remove the misleading references to you being a "mathematics professor". Failure to do so - may open the doors to legal action against you for providing misleading information to investors. You are a secondary school math teacher - not a math professor.

1. I'm so glad it's becoming more and more obvious you are just a troll.
2. My undergraduate degree (BA) is Mathematics, graduated from Judson University, only my MA is in Ed.
3. "In some countries or institutions, the word professor is also used in titles of lower ranks such as associate professor and assistant professor; this is particularly the case in the United States, where the word professor is sometimes used colloquially to refer to anyone in an academic post" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor)

Anything else, Professor Groper (what does that even mean?  You grope those of the opposite sex?)
This is fun, what next?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 24, 2019, 07:59:16 PM
i see you are a high school teacher - with a degree in education not mathematics... congratulations, its a noble job - but it does little to instill investor confidence in your trading skills. A real degree in mathematics or statistics or economics or a dozen other fields would be a different story, but its all starting to make sense now...

Another thing-  The term "professor" - applies to post secondary school education - ie tertiary or university level - but im sure you know that. I dont see any of your employment history at that level and youve therefore misled investors by calling yourself a "professor of mathematics" which implies you were teaching at university level and clearly you have not. As you know - university level lecturers or professors generally have a degree and most likely honors or PhD in the field they teach - you have attempted to imply this without directly saying it, by calling yourself a math professor. I would urge you to change your strategy descriptions across all the platforms you send signals from to remove the misleading references to you being a "mathematics professor". Failure to do so - may open the doors to legal action against you for providing misleading information to investors. You are a secondary school math teacher - not a math professor.

1. I'm so glad it's becoming more and more obvious you are just a troll.
2. My undergraduate degree (BA) is Mathematics, graduated from Judson University, only my MA is in Ed.
3. "In some countries or institutions, the word professor is also used in titles of lower ranks such as associate professor and assistant professor; this is particularly the case in the United States, where the word professor is sometimes used colloquially to refer to anyone in an academic post" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor)

Anything else, Professor Groper (what does that even mean?  You grope those of the opposite sex?)?
This is fun, what next?

I would ask that this back and forth "conversation" please stop; it is beyond civility and has reached mud slinging!


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on February 24, 2019, 10:41:04 PM

Quote
I would ask that this back and forth "conversation" please stop; it is beyond civility and has reached mud slinging!

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Certainly not a problem on my end.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on February 24, 2019, 10:42:56 PM

Quote
I would ask that this back and forth "conversation" please stop; it is beyond civility and has reached mud slinging!

Regards,
HumbleTrader


Certainly not a problem on my end.

Thank you, OTB.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on March 01, 2019, 05:53:46 AM
I will not engage in anything personal with OTB here anymore. I will stick strictly to facts and trading information only.

Its been another profitable week for the anti system, another 46 pips - has taken a few more pips for the week whilst OTB signal is more equity negative than this time last week despite many profitable scalps due to the significant floating DD and lots of positions in DD with expensive negative swap rates such as short UJ.
Below are the 2 equity summaries for the last 7 days of OTB zulu account, and my contrarian approach based off OTB signal.

The last screen shot is the progress so far - last 2 weeks (since inception) of the contrarian approach.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 02, 2019, 01:24:05 PM
I will not engage in anything personal with OTB here anymore. I will stick strictly to facts and trading information only.

Its been another profitable week for the anti system, another 46 pips - has taken a few more pips for the week whilst OTB signal is more equity negative than this time last week despite many profitable scalps due to the significant floating DD and lots of positions in DD with expensive negative swap rates such as short UJ.
Below are the 2 equity summaries for the last 7 days of OTB zulu account, and my contrarian approach based off OTB signal.

You should show the backtest for this "strategy" over the whole history of the over 1100 trades.
Zulu doesn't even have the whole history of trades taken on this strategy since inception.  Their data is from Feb 2018 only.

You've shown 7 days during a period of drawdown, which has happened at least 10 times in the past 24 months, all to be expected in the long run journey of trading, just like even your very short equity curve proves.

Under 10% drawdown is acceptable, stated in the description of my management, and certainly manageable.
Within 4-6 weeks (historically speaking) likely to be at new equity highs if I am strict, accurate, and the market is predictable as it has been in the past with this strategy.
Funny thing too is that you only post these sorts of messages when I am suffering a drawdown.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 06, 2019, 02:13:14 PM
February Profits --

Low Risk:          7.53%
Medium Risk:   14.36%
High Risk:         26.96%

Total Pips:  4948
Title: Re: Medium Risk Reviews on MQL5
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 11, 2019, 01:48:28 PM
Medium Risk Reviews on MQL5

https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/470012#!tab=tab_reviews


 (http://[size=14pt)
Quote
irisheffey ([url=https://www.mql5.com/en/users/irisheffey]https://www.mql5.com/en/users/irisheffey[/url])
2019.01.30 02:30  (modified 2019.01.30 05:52) 
 
I had been following Greg and his accounts for 12 months prior to subscribing. I emailed Greg during that period prior to subscription to ask him bout his trading system. He was quick and thorough in his reply.

His system, has periods of heavy drawdown. This is part of the game in an average down system. He is currently primarily trading the AUDUSD pair as fundamentally, the Aussie is being weakened against the USD creating a prolonged downtrend. Greg then executes his system as opportunities occur on the charts. This indicates knows the risk and benefits of this type of system and only applies it to the best opportunities.

Greg is a highly professional and dedicated trader. I am very pleased with his services to date. To date, of all the signals I have subscribed to, Gregs signals are by far the most profitable. I have had two accounts subscribed to his signals continuously for 6 months now and I am happy to report one is over 50% ahead while the other is over 100% ahead.

I recommend this service if you are happy to accept higher drawdowns in return for higher profit.

(https://i.postimg.cc/LYBs6q9h/mediumrisk-Reviews.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYBs6q9h)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on March 16, 2019, 12:20:59 AM
Update on the contrarian system which trades in the opposite direction to OTBHK and attempts to catch profit from positions when OTB goes into deeper DD and attempts to stays out of the market whilst OTB takes profitable scalps, this is done via contrarian pending orders with an offset pip distance from OTB.
It has now been 1 month since inception running on a demo account, and It uses a 3:1 RRR on all trades, and never has any drawdown beyond the10pip SL on all positions.
Top image is the equity curve since inception ofo the contrarian approach 1 month ago.
Bottom image is the equity curve of OTBHK for the exact same period of time.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 16, 2019, 01:34:28 AM
Update on the contrarian system which trades in the opposite direction to OTBHK and attempts to catch profit from positions when OTB goes into deeper DD and attempts to stays out of the market whilst OTB takes profitable scalps, this is done via contrarian pending orders with an offset pip distance from OTB.
It has now been 1 month since inception running on a demo account, and It uses a 3:1 RRR on all trades, and never has any drawdown beyond the10pip SL on all positions.
Top image is the equity curve since inception ofo the contrarian approach 1 month ago.
Bottom image is the equity curve of OTBHK for the exact same period of time.

Okay, I get it that you don't approve of this trader and his methods, but at this point I'm struggling to see what your objective is. Do you want him to stop trading? Do you want him to adopt your ideas instead from here on out? Do you just want him to go away and stop trading? Do you want him to apologize for his strategy? Seriously, what's your end goal? He obviously will continue doing what he's doing, and I'm wondering why that bothers you so much.

If you have a superior signal that you offer or that you follow somewhere, please post it. I will gladly throw some money at it like I have at many other signals. Thanks to profits from OutsidetheBox, I have a few extra grand to spend on stuff like that. Thing is, they all tanked at some point. I'm constantly testing signals and EAs. This is literally the ONLY signal that made me money last year. If you have a superior system or a way to optimize this system, post a verified account with some cash. If it's legit, I'll back your play, too. Maybe we'll get rich together. All I care about is making money. Criticism and critiquing is helpful and necessary, but that's all there is here. I have repeatedly asked for people to come forward with a better strategy I can throw money at because I legit want to know. If there's so much disapproval over OTB, then at least some of you out there MUST be hoarding some secret system that is making you buckets of cash. Over the last year, 1 guy actually did reply to my open request with a "better" system. I tracked it, and it tanked in 2 months.

If you were following this signal and lost money, I feel your pain. I really do. I was following the high risk signal, too. I was also on a sustained losing streak in the first few months of following his flagship low-risk signal (see my chart below). You know what I did? I PM'd Greg. I didn't air my laundry in the forum. I voiced my concerns and disappointment, and he actually replied swiftly with great advice and in great detail. I took his advice and rearranged things a little, and now I'm sitting here over a year later with a comfortable profit margin. As far as providers go, he has always been top notch in communication and far more accommodating than I probably deserve in PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE. He even reimbursed money to me - taking a loss - due to a complete error in billing on my part.

He's definitely not perfect; he's human. At this point, I've found that the best thing for me is to only check this signal once a week or so. It tends to carry a drawdown, it always comes out, and I'm taking a spontaneous vacation next month because it banked me some profits. Since we're all about posting charts now, here's mine. If you have a signal better than this, please share. I am not kidding when I say I am always open to new ideas and opportunities.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: diyforexskills on March 16, 2019, 02:24:39 AM
hello 5ninefish

That was a refreshing statement.

Next month we are planning to open Nexus signal to subscribers

Quite a different approach to OTB - no grid, no scalping. So would be a complementary investment. I don't want to say more since this is the OTB thread.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 16, 2019, 03:51:57 AM
Update on the contrarian system ..... blah blah blah

Thanks 5NineFish
Let the poop-slingers sling.
Let the naysayers flap their gums with abundant diarrhea of unrelenting malice.
I make mistakes, I learn, I improve. I then make bigger mistakes, I make bigger improvements and I grow even more....You'll always make mistakes and bad decisions, but you must keep learning growing and improving. If you aren't making mistakes, you aren't getting better.
When I starting taking action on my dreams according to the talent God has given me and just focus on myself, then something awesome started to grow.  And it's not gonna stop.
You will fall down at some point, that's a fact.The only thing that matters is you keep going and never ever give up. Winners never quit, and quitters never win.
Your word means nothing. It's action that really matters.
Isn't it funny that the people who say that something can't be done or that it's not possible or it isn't a good idea are the same people who couldn't do it themselves and quit on it ? Never listen to someone who quit on their goals and dreams, They threw in the towel and QUIT !!! Surround yourself with people on the same path or those that have already walked that path before.


http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/diarrhea-of-the-mouth
 (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/diarrhea-of-the-mouth)
Quote
diarrhea of the mouth. used to describe someone who uses foul/rude or unacceptable words during the entire conversation AS the entire conversation.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Diarrhea%20of%20the%20Mouth
 (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Diarrhea%20of%20the%20Mouth)
Quote
A person, who usually isn't very intelligent, who will not shut up. It's typically a cover for their own inferiority.

(https://i.postimg.cc/G296T2pW/13413492-1738444639712081-192276975-n.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MKYtxw6V/IMG-1734.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tRFG3skb/0.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SRxLx2N9/0-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 16, 2019, 05:53:55 AM
hello 5ninefish

That was a refreshing statement.

Next month we are planning to open Nexus signal to subscribers -

Quite a different approach to OTB - no grid, no scalping. So would be a complementary investment. I don't want to say more since this is the OTB thread.

Oh DIY, I am a big fan and 'secret' admirer of your work. Your contributions are vast and valuable, though some of it is beyond me. I am trying to catch up, though. And I look forward to seeing what you have developing for the future!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on March 16, 2019, 08:37:05 AM
Update on the contrarian system which trades in the opposite direction to OTBHK and attempts to catch profit from positions when OTB goes into deeper DD and attempts to stays out of the market whilst OTB takes profitable scalps, this is done via contrarian pending orders with an offset pip distance from OTB.
It has now been 1 month since inception running on a demo account, and It uses a 3:1 RRR on all trades, and never has any drawdown beyond the10pip SL on all positions.
Top image is the equity curve since inception ofo the contrarian approach 1 month ago.
Bottom image is the equity curve of OTBHK for the exact same period of time.

Okay, I get it that you don't approve of this trader and his methods, but at this point I'm struggling to see what your objective is. Do you want him to stop trading? Do you want him to adopt your ideas instead from here on out? Do you just want him to go away and stop trading? Do you want him to apologize for his strategy? Seriously, what's your end goal? He obviously will continue doing what he's doing, and I'm wondering why that bothers you so much.

If you have a superior signal that you offer or that you follow somewhere, please post it. I will gladly throw some money at it like I have at many other signals. Thanks to profits from OutsidetheBox, I have a few extra grand to spend on stuff like that. Thing is, they all tanked at some point. I'm constantly testing signals and EAs. This is literally the ONLY signal that made me money last year. If you have a superior system or a way to optimize this system, post a verified account with some cash. If it's legit, I'll back your play, too. Maybe we'll get rich together. All I care about is making money. Criticism and critiquing is helpful and necessary, but that's all there is here. I have repeatedly asked for people to come forward with a better strategy I can throw money at because I legit want to know. If there's so much disapproval over OTB, then at least some of you out there MUST be hoarding some secret system that is making you buckets of cash. Over the last year, 1 guy actually did reply to my open request with a "better" system. I tracked it, and it tanked in 2 months.

If you were following this signal and lost money, I feel your pain. I really do. I was following the high risk signal, too. I was also on a sustained losing streak in the first few months of following his flagship low-risk signal (see my chart below). You know what I did? I PM'd Greg. I didn't air my laundry in the forum. I voiced my concerns and disappointment, and he actually replied swiftly with great advice and in great detail. I took his advice and rearranged things a little, and now I'm sitting here over a year later with a comfortable profit margin. As far as providers go, he has always been top notch in communication and far more accommodating than I probably deserve in PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE. He even reimbursed money to me - taking a loss - due to a complete error in billing on my part.

He's definitely not perfect; he's human. At this point, I've found that the best thing for me is to only check this signal once a week or so. It tends to carry a drawdown, it always comes out, and I'm taking a spontaneous vacation next month because it banked me some profits. Since we're all about posting charts now, here's mine. If you have a signal better than this, please share. I am not kidding when I say I am always open to new ideas and opportunities.

Im not here for any other reason other than to offer some balance to the claims made by signal providers-  in this case OTBHK. There are far too many bad signal providers on the net and its unfortunate so many innocent investors loose money to them.

Since we are not to delve into anything personal or discuss other topics that do not pertain to OTBHK in this thread - i wont go there.

What i would like to discuss - is why OTBHK is hell bent on taking short UJ positions? these have been the source of 90% of the profits of the contrarian strategy and also the majority of DD of OTBHK since the beginning of this year. I cannot work out why OTBHK is trading short UJ when the trend is clearly rising for many weeks now, and holding those positions in DD is costing most investors circa 7 pips per position, per week, in swap. It should have been obvious to abandon the shorting of UJ many weeks ago and OTBHK would be far more profitable by simply not trading UJ at all - nevermind trading it against a clear and strong trend which is backed by fundamentals, and continuing to short it to this day... its absolutely mind boggling.

So whilst we are here discussing this signal - OTBHK - can you explain to your investors why your so strongly biased toward selling UJ? Any reasoning behind it?
Attched 4H chart since beginning of the year;

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petersurrey on March 16, 2019, 11:09:59 AM
Myself and presumably many others think this debate needs a seperate thread  - it has been going on far too long, and clearly both side are so entrenched nothing is going to change their views. Yes, by all means raise concerns, but not the extent that it swamps the thread. Clearly there are those who make money with OTHK looking at the various funds he manages, and are happy with the service  - those that are not should simply move on. There are far worse providers than this and the darwinex and other broker metrics give you a clear idea of the risks you take on with his system.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 16, 2019, 01:35:43 PM
Myself and presumably many others think this debate needs a seperate thread  - it has been going on far too long, and clearly both side are so entrenched nothing is going to change their views. Yes, by all means raise concerns, but not the extent that it swamps the thread. Clearly there are those who make money with OTHK looking at the various funds he manages, and are happy with the service  - those that are not should simply move on. There are far worse providers than this and the darwinex and other broker metrics give you a clear idea of the risks you take on with his system.


I think, petersurrey, makes a valid point. Groper, I have reviewed your 31 posts to this forum and 100% are directed at OTB. There must be a point where all of us are tired of his; there is nothing new or substantive to be had. May I suggest we open a thread as petersurrey, notes, so that you can share your revised trading system(s) and how it/they might help us to trade better. Please let us know what you want your thread to be called?

Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 16, 2019, 06:01:42 PM
Myself and presumably many others think this debate needs a seperate thread  - it has been going on far too long, and clearly both side are so entrenched nothing is going to change their views. Yes, by all means raise concerns, but not the extent that it swamps the thread. Clearly there are those who make money with OTHK looking at the various funds he manages, and are happy with the service  - those that are not should simply move on. There are far worse providers than this and the darwinex and other broker metrics give you a clear idea of the risks you take on with his system.

Fully agree. I was hoping that my comment about private correspondence would encourage Groper to air his grievances through direct communication with the signal provider.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 22, 2019, 03:22:17 PM


Update on the contrarian system which trades in the opposite direction to OTBHK
It has now been 1 month since inception running on a demo account, and It uses a 3:1 RRR on all trades, and never has any drawdown beyond the10pip SL on all positions.
Top image is the equity curve since inception of the contrarian approach 1 month ago.
Bottom image is the equity curve of OTBHK for the exact same period of time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What i would like to discuss - is why OTBHK is hell bent on taking short UJ positions? these have been the source of 90% of the profits of the contrarian strategy and also the majority of DD of OTBHK since the beginning of this year. I cannot work out why OTBHK is trading short UJ when the trend is clearly rising for many weeks now, and holding those positions in DD is costing most investors circa 7 pips per position, per week, in swap. It should have been obvious to abandon the shorting of UJ many weeks ago and OTBHK would be far more profitable by simply not trading UJ at all ... its absolutely mind boggling.

So whilst we are here discussing this signal - OTBHK - can you explain to your investors why your so strongly biased toward selling UJ? Any reasoning behind it?
Attched 4H chart since beginning of the year;



How is your counter-OTB contrarian strategy going?

Now do you recognize the pent up accumulation of sellers?... USD down Risk down is the new paradigm and began to be apparent even in January.  There will always be those who choose to voice their dissent in a hurtful and inconsiderate way.
As always though I trudge on to greater and greater profits and success in my well planned trading career.



(https://i.postimg.cc/BQfghb0P/Groper-Troll.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WzN430ZJ/Low-Risk-March2019-RECOVERY.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on March 22, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
Are you now encouraging him to come back and keep us up to date with what he's doing? Next time you're in a pickle just don't come here crying and screaming and asking for moderation. Not sure you thought this through properly.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 22, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Are you now encouraging him to come back and keep us up to date with what he's doing? Next time you're in a pickle just don't come here crying and screaming and asking for moderation. Not sure you thought this through properly.

Primi is correct: OTB, Groper has remained silent and you should do so as well. Let's get back to "normalcy": It is alright to have discussions and "civil" disagreements but we are not here to continue never-ending feuds, no matter who starts it.


Regards,
Humble Trader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 22, 2019, 10:02:04 PM
I post here for one reason and one reason only.
To show that I know what I am doing and take my profit generation very seriously.
So I also follow up when I recover from drawdowns, reminding followers that this is all part of trading, maintaining strict adherence to the strategy and skills that I have developed.
@groper did not respond about a separate thread being opened up for his unproven, short trade strategy that depends on my hard work so I took it upon myself to ask again.

May I suggest that many of you would defend your performance if you had worked as long and as hard as I have done.


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on March 22, 2019, 10:07:33 PM
I post here for one reason and one reason only.
To show that I know what I am doing and take my profit generation very seriously.
So I also follow up when I recover from drawdowns, reminding followers that this is all part of trading, maintaining strict adherence to the strategy and skills that I have developed.
@groper did not respond about a separate thread being opened up for his unproven, short trade strategy that depends on my hard work so I took it upon myself to ask again.

May I suggest that many of you would defend your performance if you had worked as long and as hard as I have done.

O.K., now that you have gratified in "the last word", can we put it to rest?

Have a good week-end.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: diyforexskills on March 23, 2019, 01:29:45 AM
The bit that interest me in all this is how we can all use chart patterns, me included, to demonstrate a technical perspective. In this case a A/D or S/R zone which is "respected". Unfortunately of course, charts don't show what and when major news/fundamental announcements are made. And hence over time we don't know whether the market actually "respected" a technical juncture, or whether the response to the news was the catalyst for the move.

In this UJ case, I suspect that it was the news from the Fed, turning back 180 degrees on rate hikes, that caused the move and hence in history will be used as an example to support what technical analysts teach. If the announcement had been one which re-enforced the planned rate hikes, I suspect price would have continued its rise and hence invalidated the technicals.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 23, 2019, 02:40:05 AM
The bit that interest me in all this is how we can all use chart patterns, me included, to demonstrate a technical perspective. In this case a A/D or S/R zone which is "respected". Unfortunately of course, charts don't show what and when major news/fundamental announcements are made. And hence over time we don't know whether the market actually "respected" a technical juncture, or whether the response to the news was the catalyst for the move.

In this UJ case, I suspect that it was the news from the Fed, turning back 180 degrees on rate hikes, that caused the move and hence in history will be used as an example to support what technical analysts teach. If the announcement had been one which re-enforced the planned rate hikes, I suspect price would have continued its rise and hence invalidated the technicals.

What a plug for their products and services on my thread.  whatever. 
Support and Resistance (supply and demand) is kindergarten for Forex and plenty of free educational tools available online.
I learned everything I know about forex over Youtube and forums.

By the way @DIYForexskills, your posts has been reported.  Keep your bothersome spam off this thread.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 24, 2019, 01:54:02 AM
I just realized that I've been missing all the USDZAR trades. Should I just go ahead and enable all Forex pairs? Are there any other ones that you are planning to roll out?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 24, 2019, 08:02:43 AM
Yes please enable all pairs.
I trade what I see and where the opportunity is.
For example USDTRY is becoming more interesting again

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on March 26, 2019, 09:26:33 AM
Is there any information about the daily volume traded for USDTRY and USDZAR? I looked briefly but found nothing except some speculation.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 26, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Is there any information about the daily volume traded for USDTRY and USDZAR? I looked briefly but found nothing except some speculation.

I used to have access to that info thru Thomson Reuters contact, but I no longer have that access unfortunately.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on March 27, 2019, 11:55:07 AM
Hi all,

My broker is telling me that USDTRY is unavailable for the following reason:-

"In order to protect the funds of our clients and due to the instability of Turkey, the USDTRY will continue non-tradeable for the moment."

Anyone else having this issue?

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: rsmereka on March 27, 2019, 01:51:59 PM
I have subscribed to 'Zero Spread' and my broker does not have any of the exotics that are being traded recently. This signal currently has open the following exotics: USDTRY and USDZAR both of which are not open in my account. My daily return has dropped to about one fourth of what it was although it is too early to tell what the long-term effects will be if this keeps up.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on March 27, 2019, 02:12:25 PM
My broker is Global Prime and there is no problem with copying exotics and US30 trades though I had to map US30 through the SimpleTrader control panel.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on March 27, 2019, 02:53:40 PM
I have USDZAR and especially USDTRY firmly disabled. I don't see the attraction of trading such iffy markets like turkey. Also, for tax reasons, I don't trade anything outside FX so my returns have also dropped to a fraction of what they used to be.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 27, 2019, 03:34:43 PM
Hi all,

My broker is telling me that USDTRY is unavailable for the following reason:-

"In order to protect the funds of our clients and due to the instability of Turkey, the USDTRY will continue non-tradeable for the moment."

Anyone else having this issue?

Thanks

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/foreign-investors-are-trapped-in-turkey-days-before-elections (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-27/foreign-investors-are-trapped-in-turkey-days-before-elections)
Investors Scramble for Liras as Turkish Swap Rates Touch 1,000%

Some brokers are being extra careful due to Elections and Swap Rates sky rocketing.
All mine (darwinex, mt cook, hotforex, and axitrader) have not stopped USDTRY trading.

I continue to trade major pairs too and DOW as some have noticed (very profitable by the way).
I expect extreme volatility coming up end of March and April and risk off markets.
Up over 11% this month in closed trades with approx 2% open drawdown with the Turkish protections explained by Erdogan in above article.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on March 27, 2019, 09:17:30 PM
Does anyone know what the symbol for Dow is for icmarkets?
Or if they even have the Dow indices.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on March 27, 2019, 09:21:30 PM
Does anyone know what the symbol for Dow is for icmarkets?
Or if they even have the Dow indices.

us 30 on ic  most all brokers offer the dow btw.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on March 27, 2019, 09:54:09 PM
Cheers!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: taru on March 28, 2019, 03:51:29 AM
The swap on long USDTRY is negative and through the roof. It is killing any chance of a profit. I think the signal provider may have special arrangements with his brokers but most of the followers don't. I wish he had taken this into consideration when deciding to trade exotics.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on March 28, 2019, 06:03:00 PM
Finally got the DowUSD mapped through simpletrader, and it was just in time. Some great profits rolling in lately!

Swap on USDTRY is pretty brutal, but my bottom line is profit. It keeps rolling in. Sometimes trading is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock, but this is not one of those times.

Thanks for a great month, Greg. Often we subscribers are quick with the critiques and then forget to show gratitude during the good times. Hopefully we can change that. Personally, I want a positively-charged, mentally reinforced trader handling my money. But that's just how I roll.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 28, 2019, 06:21:52 PM
Finally got the DowUSD mapped through simpletrader, and it was just in time. Some great profits rolling in lately!

Swap on USDTRY is pretty brutal, but my bottom line is profit. It keeps rolling in. Sometimes trading is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock, but this is not one of those times.

Thanks for a great month, Greg. Often we subscribers are quick with the critiques and then forget to show gratitude during the good times. Hopefully we can change that. Personally, I want a positively-charged, mentally reinforced trader handling my money. But that's just how I roll.
Thanks much.
I too am dealing with mapping 6 slaves correctly to my 3 signals.
Getting VPS working properly, risk allocations smooth, and all copying set right.
Once it is set up and smooth it is a great machine to behold.
You can count on me.
I'm past the tipping point in terms of skills, wisdom, and resilience.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on March 28, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
My broker icmarkets has just stated their restrictions on usdtry too, it's now set to close only
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on March 29, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
Hi Greg, what's the plan for the Dow atm, so regretting mapping into my pairs atm. It looks like it will wipe out all the gains plus more
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on March 30, 2019, 01:59:25 AM
Same strategy. Same plan. Within bounds of communicated trade plan and strategy description. Next week drawdown tactics in play. Enjoy weekend and rest assured I have been here many times before and March closed profit exceeded current open drawdown.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on March 30, 2019, 02:40:15 AM
Hi Greg, what's the plan for the Dow atm, so regretting mapping into my pairs atm. It looks like it will wipe out all the gains plus more

beware that lotsizing with cfd is not the same across brokers. you must calculate the pip value so it matches gregs master in regards to risk.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 01, 2019, 10:28:10 AM
Hi,

Following comment on Lot sizing for DOW, I noticed on my live MT4 account that the lot size per US30 is 1.00 on my own open trades (MT4) while it is 0.10 on the list of Gregs Open orders on SimpleTrader.

Does this mean I am multiplied up 10x?

Thanks

Cormac




Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 01, 2019, 11:36:15 AM
Could be a limitation with the broker eg minimum 1 contrwct
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 01, 2019, 10:55:38 PM
Hi,

Following comment on Lot sizing for DOW, I noticed on my live MT4 account that the lot size per US30 is 1.00 on my own open trades (MT4) while it is 0.10 on the list of Gregs Open orders on SimpleTrader.

Does this mean I am multiplied up 10x?

Thanks

Cormac

SimpleTrader EA takes care of the proportional allocation size for lots based on master account's lots size-to-equity when trade opened.  For example --- $7490 equity + 0.10 lot size.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 03, 2019, 07:23:50 AM
Hi,

Having checked my account versus the Open Orders on SimpleTrader, I can see that the second NZDUSD position was not opened due to low/insufficient free margin on my account. This is due to the other USD30 open positions and their respective drawdowns.

These are the current 4 open position on my account. These positions (including drawdowns) are using 80% of my Free Margin

Open Time                 Open Price   Lots   Type  Pair         Profit   
2019/04/03 02:33:54   0.677093     0.50  Sell    NZDUSD  -65.45
2019/03/29 17:26:26   25868         0.10  Sell    DOWUSD  -386.65
2019/03/28 16:54:05   25655         0.10  Sell    DOWUSD  -599.65
2019/03/28 16:12:55   25607         0.10  Sell    DOWUSD  -647.65

This following position cannot be opened due to the insufficient remaining margin on my account.

2019/04/03  03:37:08 0.677449 0.50 Sell     NZDUSD     -47.65

I presume you do not have this margin issue as you have a better margin facility by being a Professional trader.

As I understand it, as soon as sufficient free margin becomes available, the pending NZDUSD position will then open, but at the price at the time. This could work for or against me depending on the market position when it is opened.

Do other subscribers (considered Retail by their brokers) have this issue with restricted margin requirements preventing, like in this case, orders to be opened and subsequent late opening when that margin becomes available?

One solution, I know, is to pump more money in to facilitate this margin requirement but is not ideal.

Thanks
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 03, 2019, 09:30:48 AM
Don't have this issue yet but I'm coming close to 40% draw down and I hope this isn't a pray for miracle scenario
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 03, 2019, 09:33:43 AM
I am limited by ESMA to 1:50 at best and there is no way to copy 1:1 what he's doing now, especially on high risk account that is currently at more than 80% DD. For this reason (and other reasons) I do not copy any ZAR, TRY and such trades and also not DOW plus I have much reduced risk to start with.

You did not say which signal you're copying but if it's high risk I would advise not to pump any more money in it. Last time it did not help and if DOW pops up this time it will also not help.

Also it's not clear where you're copying this signal from but if it's via Simpletrader then your missing trade will only be copied if it's the same or better price (within allowed slippage). I don't know about other services.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 03, 2019, 09:51:10 AM
Hi,

I mentioned that it is via SimpleTrader.

I am following "Outside the Box NEW" on this.

I have the Risk Multiplier set to 1 for "Risk Multiplier using Account Equity".

Therefore, if I pump more money in, it is going to be quickly gobbled up for any new DOW or NZDUSD positions (initial margin requirement).

So, I guess I am going to have to reduce the "Multiplier" to manage the remaining margin to prevent hitting threshold again?

Cheers
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 03, 2019, 10:09:23 AM
Sorry, I missed that you said Simpletrader.

Looks like you're following regular risk account. I'm not against depositing some more money on regular risk accounts, that one currently sits at 25% DD. But you will absolutely need to adjust risk multiplier if you're hitting margin limits already. He's a bit of a loose cannon and can't be trusted to work the way one would expect him to work so you need to make steps to survive it. Dial down your risk to start with. Dial it down more if you're under ESMA.

You can copy 1:1 if he stays within about 10% DD and uses "normal" position sizes. When the going gets tough nobody knows.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 03, 2019, 10:32:50 AM
Good Luck!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 03, 2019, 10:33:51 AM
Thanks

I've moved money in and have reduced the risk multiplier from 1 to 0.5 for the moment.

It would be good if SimpleTrader added "Risk Multiplier using Free Margin" on the drop down list to faciliate the "real" money available.

I will have to manage this (risk multiplier via SimpleTrader) more closely going forward.

Another lesson learned.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 03, 2019, 10:57:16 AM
Not that it matters if you can't open further trades but what if Greg hedges and the new trades are opened at 0.5 the risk, wouldn't that expose the existing trade
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 03, 2019, 11:05:45 AM
There's hardly anything you can do about it unless you're copying using balance multiplier or even fixed.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 03, 2019, 01:07:38 PM
For the last 13 years the Dow Jones has closed up higher every year in April without fail. Now this makes me nervous
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 04, 2019, 10:01:41 PM
I'm with simple trader and icmarkets as my broker, despite reducing the risk all the Dow contracts are opening as 1 lot, this draw down is now 40% for me. What is the ppan?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 05, 2019, 08:01:23 AM
That's probably the smallest contract you can open for Dow. Unfortunate.

Luckily you're following regular risk account. That gives you some more room and time to think what to do. The expected outcome in the long run I'm sad to say is however just like his high risk account. And that account is currently down to just over 3% of equity which is for all intents and purposes a second blown account this year. He didn't like it when I said this is not sustainable for clients but it just isn't. No matter how much money you made last year you could not have withdrawn enough to cover the losses of 2 blown accounts in 3 months and have any meaningful amount of money left to trade not to even mention the outlook.

All is fine and dandy as long as conditions are favorable and some traders (like Greg) even found a very profitable strategy to trade during that time. When shit hits the fan however and those small baskets get bigger nobody knows what to do with it. And that's the hard truth. The only difference between regular and high risk accounts is just the speed of things to come.

I got away with it this time because I refused to trade DOW, TRY and ZAR. But he blew his other account trading USDJPY so it can and will happen no matter what you do.

It's easy for him to say he made a lot of money still. Sure he did, but a lot of it was his service charges - something we as his clients cannot count on.

Looking at DOW it has the potential to go higher so things will likely get worse before they get better (if they do).
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 05, 2019, 09:58:45 AM
Thanks primi, got greedy and was hoping the Dow would average out, turns out it's on a massive bull run, in fact this whole year has been and with news of China giving more certainty or at least clarity I should've closed it early. But unfortunately inaction and I'm left at 50% draw down... Damn this hurts

Jesus another 100 point up on opening
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 05, 2019, 01:58:15 PM
I think he closed one trade on regular risk account now. Perhaps you should consider reducing risk even more (closing another trade). I know it hurts but your sizes are off and it should give you a better chance of getting through this alive. It's also possible you'd pick the top but if it goes higher still it will likely hit some stops and spike some more. Not sure you can carry it that high?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 05, 2019, 02:14:36 PM
Thanks primi, shut the earliest Dow trade down, God that's like tearing off a limb....still not cleared of danger by far. This was the exact position I went to sleep with last night except now I have 15% less balance
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 05, 2019, 02:38:53 PM
Hi,

This turbulance is all part of the gig, unfortunately.

I am going through a big lessons learned and have realised there is some money management requirement on my side via SimpleTrader depending on drawdowns / margin requirements.

As mentioned earlier, I am a retail investor, so my broker requires aprox 2K+ per 1 lot DOW30 order (for example), similar for other major currency pairs etc.
Considering my account is for TradeCopy only, I wish my broker would allow my account, for better rates / lower margin requirement, to be deemed a Professional account/trader - but that is another story!

So, I have to regularly monitor and manage the Risk Multiplier in SimpleTrader depending on the Free Margin Available to me. I don't mind doing this if required, especially if this stacks the odds of success in my favour, expecially during this turbulance.

At one point today, to maintain the free margin, and with the risk of other orders coming through, I had to reduce the Risk Multiplier from 0.5 to 0.1 (at the beginning this risk multiplier was at the default 1.0). As some positions have closed and the free margin has increased, I have now increased the Risk Multiplier back to 0.5.

Assuming (and hoping) the current open positions recover and the Free Margin increases, I will move the Risk Multiplier back to the original 1.0 setting.

Hang in there.

Cheers

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 05, 2019, 03:50:44 PM
You can't reliably copy even his normal risk account at default 1.0 risk multiplier if you're under severe margin restrictions. It might be better to go with a lower multiplier to start with.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 06, 2019, 11:29:43 PM

He's a bit of a loose cannon and can't be trusted to work the way one would expect him to work so you need to make steps to survive it.
You can copy 1:1 if he stays within about 10% DD and uses "normal" position sizes. When the going gets tough nobody knows.


Stopping in to give an update. 
And to do my best to give a comprehensive note that will address all the concerns there may be.  As I will only respond individually to important messages which are geared to greater productivity, progress and positivism.

No doubt you are well acquainted with the highs and lows of investing in forex signals and forex managed accounts (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70 (http://mtcookfinancial.com/mm-outside-the-box-hk/?partners=70)).... the way traders are put on a pedestal at New Equity Highs and by capturing consistent 5 to 10% monthly returns BUT also subjected to the entitled, fickle group of contentious investors who are now yelling "let's throw tomatoes at him" in the tough times of odious and unsavory Drawdown.

And also how certain people like @primi choose to say rude things about me in a public forum when I am his ATM machine and when it is far easier to sit on the sidelines and be an "armchair coach" than get in the game and work on what you can control and improve on your own instead of constantly pointing out what others are doing wrong without giving a fair assessment.  It certainly befuddles me.  But then again I have a lot of time to research psychology, self growth, trading skills, trading training, and relational topics.
I have tried to explain the knowledge and skills I have acquired in this hairy world of Forex and present my style of trading to you with honesty and courage.  People / investors like @primi don't take the time to think about me as a person just like them.  Someone who is working obsessively on the same dream that all you have.

I have explained to big investors that I am right at the tipping point of taking my career to the next level, as I know how to generate consistent profits, have an edge, and manage risk in order to survive the 6% of trades I do not find a good entry for.
I have needed to generate enough income and equity gains to pay for my life, while I attract more and more capital to manage without the need to generate such high returns to be paid profit sharing performance fees.  5 to 10% every month is sometimes quite achievable but sometimes we enter into a period where this is not so easy.  And trade copying subscribers are notoriously fickle (two times now where I lost over half my investors at trade copying sites like SimpleTrader (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10702/Outside-the-Box-Medium-Risk.html (https://www.simpletrader.net/signal/10702/Outside-the-Box-Medium-Risk.html)), MQL5 , and SignalStart).
So there is much more to say here, but I'll leave it at that for now.  For now I will just say that I am sticking with the Low Risk and Medium Risk and Fund investors who pay performance profit sharing fees and who show loyalty and fairness for all my pain, suffering, and hard work on their behalf.

I am not a trader.
I am a risk manager.
I am a statistician.  I am a mathematician.  So when you question why I do what I do, it is always a matter of computing what my end goals are.

The current drawdown on Outside the Box NEW low risk strategy is 27%
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347)
The current drawdown on Outside the Box Medium Risk is 55%

http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hotforex-pamm/2239172)
These open losses are taken in tandem with the book profits from March and April which total over 15% on 1x low risk and over 30% for medium risk.

What should you take from this?
What must you claim responsibility for?
Managing your own accounts. 
Setting stop losses if you want them.
Setting rescue levels if you want them.
Diversify money throughout low, medium and high risk.
Take out profits each month when the times are good.
Learn from your mistakes and come back stronger.  Don't give up or give in to the fatalistic mindset of the 95% who never master Forex.

All the actions I take in  my strategy / trade plan during normal times and during times of drawdown are already written about here at Donna Forex, on MyFXBook, on ForexSignals Forum, on Darwinex Community Forum, on ZuluTrade, and on Instagram/Twitter.
You can find what I have already written in these discussions to address concerns you may have in what might be perceived as perilous times when so many profits / equity has been put at risk.

What really matters is my 26 months of track record that was almost impossible to achieve.
What really matters is that I crawl / walk / and sometimes cliimb my way out of drawdown time and time again, and this time is no different.  Let me work my magic.  I will recover believe me.  If it's the last thing that I do.  The high risk accounts have generated substantial returns
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 07, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
And also how certain people like @primi choose to say rude things about me in a public forum when I am his ATM machine and when it is far easier to sit on the sidelines and be an "armchair coach" than get in the game and work on what you can control and improve on your own instead of constantly pointing out what others are doing wrong without giving a fair assessment.  It certainly befuddles me.  But then again I have a lot of time to research psychology, self growth, trading skills, trading training, and relational topics.
I have tried to explain the knowledge and skills I have acquired in this hairy world of Forex and present my style of trading to you with honesty and courage.  People / investors like @primi don't take the time to think about me as a person just like them.  Someone who is working obsessively on the same dream that all you have.

Rude things? I'm talking facts and I'm trying to say what I have to say in as neutral way as I can. Believe me, you haven't seen rude yet.

If you don't like those facts there's nothing I can do about it. And referring to your high risk account that you claim have generated substantial returns and that it's supposed to be my ATM machine. You're totally wrong and I'm attaching proof of it. Since I started following this account you managed to blow it not once but twice! I was following with half risk so I was left with half of my money. Then I refused to copy DOW, TRY and ZAR so I survived the second crash. But your equity was down to 2.5% only last time I checked which means - you guessed it - another blown account.

I know the risks of trading but don't expect me to not mention above facts just because you don't like it. And the other fact is this is not sustainable for clients. No matter how much you made even if you followed this high risk strategy from the beginning it's not possible to withdraw enough to cover 2 blown accounts in 3 months, pay fees or subscription costs and be left with money to keep going knowing fully well that there may be another blown account next month. Fact is you don't know what to do with runaway baskets. Very few people do. If you knew you'd not let it get that far again.

I have thought about you as a person and I have made my conclusions. I gave you credit for working hard and not giving up before and that hasn't changed just because you got in trouble again. I gave you credit for making high returns when conditions are good. There are also things that I don't like about you but I'm keeping them for myself.

How is this rude and not a fair assessment?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 07, 2019, 03:22:38 PM
Negative or Positive feedback should be accepted by the trader. Even if the trader does not accept this feedback, customers who visit the site should be able to read the good and bad about this signal.

Thanks @primi for your honest feedback.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on April 07, 2019, 03:41:32 PM
Negative or Positive feedback should be accepted by the trader. Even if the trader does not accept this feedback, customers who visit the site should be able to read the good and bad about this signal.

Thanks @primi for your honest feedback.

I totally agree with this. This Forum exists for sharing of information both good bad and otherwise. It is not just a free advertising space for vendors, especially those who cannot accept varied opinions.

Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 08, 2019, 12:55:27 AM
Yup agreed.
Loose canon is not an objective term.  It is rude and hurtful.
Where is the rest of the profit chart??  Like all the way back til March 2018?
This is how long the high risk ones have been running.  And from July 2018.

All the other metrics you mention about High Risk are true, but you forgot to mention the 11 months of profits before the bust.  You forgot to take money off the table.  Maybe the high risk 4x account will never succeed for more than 1 year, may be it can.  To me it doesn't matter because if you manage it correctly you will eventually make much more money from it than you can lose.  Look at the Flagship low risk equity / drawdown curves / charts.  It is scientific and mathematics that says this is just a tough period.  But we had a whole 13 month stretch of time where the largest DD was 11% and PLENTY of time to make heaps of money at 4x, 2x, and 1x risk.  This is what I did, and why I can ride out these periods of DD without much lost sleep.
Am I determined to help people recover? Yes.
Am I going to work just as hard as ever?  Yes.
Am I going to call you nasty names?  Nope.  Just not helpful in any way.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 08, 2019, 08:16:03 AM
"Someone who has the propensity to act unpredictably or to lose their temper very quickly."

You act unpredictably because you don't want to be bound by any rules. There are many problems originating from this fact (for clients) and we already had this conversation here and elsewhere. On top of that, when specifically asked by someone about certain actions you might take to save your previous account (before you lost it) you said nothing and then did just that shortly after without saying a word. And it was an important question, something that you should communicate to your clients even if you don't "hold their hands for less than some hefty hourly fee". I'm sure there are more examples. About the temper I believe my assessment was also accurate and I've been around a long time and have read your replies on a few forums. There was also equal if not more of rude and hurtful remarks from you than from anybody else.

THERE IS NO "REST OF THE PROFIT CHART"! I did not become your client before the date on my chart and I did not get your past profits. If there's a way to get a share of your past profits at subscription time then why was I not wired the money? It's completely irrelevant how long your profitable history is, this is the reality for me and for anybody that subscribed around the time I did or later. It's not possible to manage it correctly or incorrectly in terms of monthly withdrawals and I did not forget to take money off the table. Don't try to get smart with me or we will enter rude and hurtful territory.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 08, 2019, 06:12:14 PM
I can not control when people subscribe and how those dates of connection relate to unforeseeable drawdowns, but I do control my duration in this industry.
And you control how long you follow these strategies.
Look back at the beginning at how many doubted in early 2017 -- the same will be true by early 2020,  set the appropriate risk so you don't have to keep checking on the status of profits / drawdown --- these are the types of clients (either fund management or trade copying) who have been most successful with me.  Those in it for the long run.
There will continue to be low, medium and some sort of high risk strategy until at least end of 2019.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 08, 2019, 09:36:08 PM
If I wasn't in it for the long run I'd be long gone by now. Like half of your clients you mentioned you lost recently again. I'm a loyal customer if I see a chance of something working out over the longer period of time. With you there are upsides and downsides and only time will tell how far we get not your past success. At least with the high risk strategy I have serious doubts it will work out after I've seen your management of these 2 baskets. Unless you change your approach. Regular risk might be OK but you're pushing 30% DD at the moment there as well which is definitely getting into the uncomfortable territory for many with serious money in the game. Which for me means ESMA restrictions which are absolutely not compatible with you even at normal risk.

Setting the appropriate risk is the difficult part here and you know exactly why so I won't go there again because the conversation would be fruitless.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 09, 2019, 08:18:18 AM
If anybody is looking at regular risk account and has ESMA restrictions - it's not possible to copy at default risk at all. Right now even with just 4 NZDUSD trades you'd be running out of margin. And there are DOW trades as well so overall it's way past margin call.

You need to reduce risk substantially or not have ESMA restrictions.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petersurrey on April 09, 2019, 09:31:06 AM
If anybody is looking at regular risk account and has ESMA restrictions - it's not possible to copy at default risk at all. Right now even with just 4 NZDUSD trades you'd be running out of margin. And there are DOW trades as well so overall it's way past margin call.

You need to reduce risk substantially or not have ESMA restrictions.

His Darwinex account would comply with ESMA as they regulate leverage and risk based on previous track records, BUT this would not stop catastrophic losses should the fund actually implode...still down to the investor to closely monitor.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 09, 2019, 10:05:38 AM
As I said many times before, the problem with him is he can't be trusted to stick to anything he ever says. Right now for example his total exposure is way higher that it should have been.

His own words: "The max open exposure I ever have at 1x risk is 1 lot per $10,000. "

His balance is $7700 and he has 2 lots open plus 4 DOW trades!! So everything you plan for goes right out the window. Why he's opening such large positions right now is anybody's guess.

And if you consider this as well: "Once running drawdown from All time equity high reaches over 10% or one individual trades reaches a 5% to 7% loss I will consider hedging or scaling out. If Overall drawdown from equity high surpasses 20%, position sizing will decrease until a recovery is launched well."

Then how come he is now in about 30% DD and his position sizes actually increased?

He said only yesterday: "set the appropriate risk so you don't have to keep checking on the status of profits / drawdown"

I can't set appropriate risk!! It's just plain impossible. Based on what? Nothing he ever says holds true in terms of risk.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 09, 2019, 12:15:16 PM
these 4 open dow trades is making me so nervous
the fact that my broker opens them at 1 lot minimum ,means i'm severely out of alignment and earnings reports is coming up this week.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: gpfwestie on April 09, 2019, 01:24:36 PM
As I said many times before, the problem with him is he can't be trusted to stick to anything he ever says. Right now for example his total exposure is way higher that it should have been.

I sympathise with everything you have been saying, I don't like the way he trades either and I don't trust the money management - hence I decided not to invest last year.

Others are ok with the risk given the high return - this is fine also, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

What I don't get is - why are you still invested ?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 09, 2019, 04:15:10 PM
Because when this system recovers / momentum pushes for recovery mode .... within the ranges.... and with the recovery tactics utilized in the past 9 significant recoveries.... it recovers quite quickly..... relatively quickly.
So you want to be on board for at least 38.2% or 50% of the recovery.  This is the strength of this system.  But yes it takes a cast iron stomach at times. 
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 09, 2019, 06:11:22 PM

What I don't get is - why are you still invested ?

The idea was that signal copying gives me enough options to get around the problems. But he's totally unpredictable and sticks to nothing so I will have to reevaluate. Slight deviations and adjustments I can make. What he's doing recently is borderline impossible to correct on my side. Unless I dial risk way down. But even then I wouldn't know what I'm up against it seems.

Luckily I have also better options on the table and I'm scaling in since january when I decided it's shown enough promise after 7 months of evaluation. Risk totally under my control and completely predictable. More profitable too, way more actually (risk adjusted).
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 11, 2019, 11:48:59 AM
Does anyone know what the max allowed DD is? I know its probably doesnt even matter since this guy doesnt respect any rules but did he ever set an equity stop or something similar?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 11, 2019, 04:15:56 PM
Does anyone know what the max allowed DD is? I know its probably doesnt even matter since this guy doesnt respect any rules but did he ever set an equity stop or something similar?

See behavior over 26 months of track record.

(https://i.postimg.cc/K872skmc/April2019-Drawdown-Chart.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 11, 2019, 04:22:56 PM
Does anyone know what the max allowed DD is? I know its probably doesnt even matter since this guy doesnt respect any rules but did he ever set an equity stop or something similar?

See behavior over 26 months of track record.  See how DD related to periods of Profit / Gain.
Currently open DD stands at 15% and booked profit over last 5 weeks stands at 18.75%.
these are low risk stats and remember this is a relatively "bad" time for this strategy.

Every "rule" and guideline must be viewed in the light of the market at each important moment when it arises.
This means that unfortunately DD might surpass the long-term average between 10 and 26% but over the long run it will not AND ..... this is the rest of the story that makes my strategies profitable and have edge..... the Gain is more than the PAIN..... if you endure the periods of DD. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/K872skmc/April2019-Drawdown-Chart.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on April 11, 2019, 04:56:17 PM
i think you should reduce the risk as no more than 20% max dd

would feel more confortable overall ...simple opinion but nice trading though
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 11, 2019, 05:10:33 PM
Does anyone know what the max allowed DD is? I know its probably doesnt even matter since this guy doesnt respect any rules but did he ever set an equity stop or something similar?

See behavior over 26 months of track record.

(https://i.postimg.cc/K872skmc/April2019-Drawdown-Chart.jpg)

Myfxbook is useless when it comes to DD. Darwinex is showing a 67% DD which is much more in line with what I am seeing from your trading. Your myfxbook account connected to Darwinex mt4 shows 50% DD. Why did you use myfxbook DD and not Darwinex? And are you planning to keep the trades open until they kill the account if they keep going against you? I am asking because you never respect anything you say and you keep breaking your word all the time and it will cost subscribers a lot of money at some point.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 12, 2019, 09:08:45 AM
At this point - especially after all what has been written on this thread about this trader - anyone who gets
his account blown up by this trader, does truly deserve it!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 12, 2019, 11:16:06 AM
Agree with the existing comments some idea on what is planned for the draw down. I got two contracts opened because my broker opens at at a minimum 1 contract and the Dow just keeps exploding higher and higher. We're at 700 points from breakeven
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: namrfigk on April 12, 2019, 12:29:41 PM
At this point - especially after all what has been written on this thread about this trader - anyone who gets
his account blown up by this trader, does truly deserve it!

And UP the dow goes, longing it now!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: groper on April 14, 2019, 06:39:59 AM
i tried to point out some of the misgivings of OTBHK signal earlier in the thread and even tried to demonstrate that more money could be made by trading contrarian to his positions - which incidentally ended in profit before the demo account expired - this is why i did not update you all on this prior btw... that, and i also simply lost interest in what OTBHK was doing... just thought id stop by and have a look at what has happened since then :)

However for those that are still following - please be careful and think twice before following this signal.

Yet another problem that OTBHK behavior has caused for his investors recently was trading in exotics. Whilst his broker may have been ok - many of his investors had brokers with really poor spreads on USDZAR and USDTRY - this caused substantial losses to his investors around the Turkish lira crisis despite his positions closing in profit. Its just irresponsible for a signal provider opening positions like this on exotic pairs when you KNOW you have a following of people any of whom are likely to have wild spreads at times like that as the turkish authorities placed restrictions on the lira... None of this can be seen by checking a myfxbook history etc - Due to the nature of how this worked with spreads - these losses are invisible losses incurred by some of his investors. He should have advised his followers that he intended to trade exotics so that they could have had the opportunity to limit , or at least reassess, the risks with trading exotics...

It doesnt matter what you say, OTBHK will always have something to say about how great his trading is and basically that its your own fault if you loose money following his signal. Of course thats what anyone would say to protect the revenue they earn from naive followers!
Any trader that allows a signal account to blow up - regardless of the risk specified - is completely irresponsible and not worth following at any risk!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 14, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
It's really a matter of STAYING INVESTED for at least 12 months, like real fund investors normally do.
It's really a matter of learning when to ADD to your investments in systems that are profitable over more than 2 to 3 years.
It's really a matter of calculating GAIN (overall) to PAIN (average max drawdown over 1 year) and how much profit a system / strategy has generated if the investor follows the system as advised by the manager and only adds to investment.

I hear all that is being said, but I am the captain of this ship, and I have been here many times before.
Recovery happens relatively quickly and the losers have always (up to this point) have been those who allow their fear / emotion to cause them to cut investments during a significant drawdown and then to not re-invest.

Exactly what happened to my brother in Nov 2008 ---- ouch -- now the S&P 500 is 3x higher -- 10 years later.

(https://dx-discourse.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files/original/2X/b/bbdccc426c5664c7f3eb6adba01969d973ccb55d.JPG)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 04:28:16 AM
It's really a matter of STAYING INVESTED for at least 12 months, like real fund investors normally do.
It's really a matter of learning when to ADD to your investments in systems that are profitable over more than 2 to 3 years.
It's really a matter of calculating GAIN (overall) to PAIN (average max drawdown over 1 year) and how much profit a system / strategy has generated if the investor follows the system as advised by the manager and only adds to investment.

I hear all that is being said, but I am the captain of this ship, and I have been here many times before.
Recovery happens relatively quickly and the losers have always (up to this point) have been those who allow their fear / emotion to cause them to cut investments during a significant drawdown and then to not re-invest.

Exactly what happened to my brother in Nov 2008 ---- ouch -- now the S&P 500 is 3x higher -- 10 years later.

(https://dx-discourse.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/files/original/2X/b/bbdccc426c5664c7f3eb6adba01969d973ccb55d.JPG)

We're with you Greg
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 16, 2019, 07:33:18 AM
I agree - long term outlook and profit withdrawals work best with this system. I check it every other week or so.

My beginning numbers are somewhat worse than they could have been due to some messed up risk management on my part and also some unfortunate manual trades.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 16, 2019, 08:37:56 AM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 16, 2019, 08:47:59 AM
Dows exploding upwards again
Taking me back to 30% draw down again even after I took a 15% loss closing one of the dows last week
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 08:49:26 AM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 08:54:24 AM
Dows exploding upwards again
Taking me back to 30% draw down again even after I took a 15% loss closing one of the dows last week
it sounds like your risk factor is deviating from OTB...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: namrfigk on April 16, 2019, 09:09:11 AM
Dows exploding upwards again
Taking me back to 30% draw down again even after I took a 15% loss closing one of the dows last week

you should long it to hedge your shorts
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 16, 2019, 09:13:46 AM
Dows exploding upwards again
Taking me back to 30% draw down again even after I took a 15% loss closing one of the dows last week

you should long it to hedge your shorts

Why hedge?
Hedging is exactly the same as closing a position. The only difference is, you pay additional spreads and swaps when hedging.

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 16, 2019, 09:54:19 AM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.

Dont be naive. He is holding and hoping at this point. He is all-in on this and if it works out then good but if it doesnt, you can expect a margin call. Even if he gets lucky and it works out, this will keep happening over and over again. Thats just how this strategy works and I am surprised that people still keep falling for this amateur. I guess shoving the system in everyones face on every forum all the time has an effect on certain people, even though its very, very bad.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 10:13:32 AM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.

Dont be naive. He is holding and hoping at this point. He is all-in on this and if it works out then good but if it doesnt, you can expect a margin call. Even if he gets lucky and it works out, this will keep happening over and over again. Thats just how this strategy works and I am surprised that people still keep falling for this amateur. I guess shoving the system in everyones face on every forum all the time has an effect on certain people, even though its very, very bad.

Thing about OTB is that hes never really all in on any position and hes got adequate available margin to trade his way out of this. besides, the dow is in dire need of a correction. the next earnings season coming out for the Quarter end of Q1 is going to be ugly.... Q1 has typically been a bad quarter but i wouldnt be surprised if trade disputes is going to cause a big miss in earnings. think about it.... Fed abruptly stopped hiking for a reason.

Bunds are flying this morning, risk off sentiments about to poke its head out...

16-Apr-2019 17:13:28 - SEVERAL ECB POLICYMAKERS DOUBT PROJECTIONS FOR GROWTH REBOUND IN H2, SOME EVEN QUESTION ACCURACY OF FORECASTING MODELS: SOURCES
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 16, 2019, 12:40:11 PM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.


Dont be naive. He is holding and hoping at this point. He is all-in on this and if it works out then good but if it doesnt, you can expect a margin call. Even if he gets lucky and it works out, this will keep happening over and over again. Thats just how this strategy works and I am surprised that people still keep falling for this amateur. I guess shoving the system in everyones face on every forum all the time has an effect on certain people, even though its very, very bad.

Thing about OTB is that hes never really all in on any position and hes got adequate available margin to trade his way out of this. besides, the dow is in dire need of a correction. the next earnings season coming out for the Quarter end of Q1 is going to be ugly.... Q1 has typically been a bad quarter but i wouldnt be surprised if trade disputes is going to cause a big miss in earnings. think about it.... Fed abruptly stopped hiking for a reason.

Bunds are flying this morning, risk off sentiments about to poke its head out...

16-Apr-2019 17:13:28 - SEVERAL ECB POLICYMAKERS DOUBT PROJECTIONS FOR GROWTH REBOUND IN H2, SOME EVEN QUESTION ACCURACY OF FORECASTING MODELS: SOURCES


You are missing the point. Its not about his reasoning for trades, its about how he is not able to manage the risk and consistently gets in these DDs. Do you really think he will get lucky every time this happens? His strategy is one of holding and hoping. Thats why his stats are so bad and he keeps blowing accounts left and right. I really cant understand how you can defend a strategy like this, its obvious the guy is a blowhard who got lucky a few times. A snake oil salesman and as always the idiots fall for it.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on April 16, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
Dows exploding upwards again
Taking me back to 30% draw down again even after I took a 15% loss closing one of the dows last week

i think when it reaches 100% retracement ( fibo soon) it will corrects again so going down soon and moving sideways for the next 3 months or so ,there will be good opportunties for manual traders looming away
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 02:56:07 PM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.


Dont be naive. He is holding and hoping at this point. He is all-in on this and if it works out then good but if it doesnt, you can expect a margin call. Even if he gets lucky and it works out, this will keep happening over and over again. Thats just how this strategy works and I am surprised that people still keep falling for this amateur. I guess shoving the system in everyones face on every forum all the time has an effect on certain people, even though its very, very bad.

Thing about OTB is that hes never really all in on any position and hes got adequate available margin to trade his way out of this. besides, the dow is in dire need of a correction. the next earnings season coming out for the Quarter end of Q1 is going to be ugly.... Q1 has typically been a bad quarter but i wouldnt be surprised if trade disputes is going to cause a big miss in earnings. think about it.... Fed abruptly stopped hiking for a reason.

Bunds are flying this morning, risk off sentiments about to poke its head out...

16-Apr-2019 17:13:28 - SEVERAL ECB POLICYMAKERS DOUBT PROJECTIONS FOR GROWTH REBOUND IN H2, SOME EVEN QUESTION ACCURACY OF FORECASTING MODELS: SOURCES


You are missing the point. Its not about his reasoning for trades, its about how he is not able to manage the risk and consistently gets in these DDs. Do you really think he will get lucky every time this happens? His strategy is one of holding and hoping. Thats why his stats are so bad and he keeps blowing accounts left and right. I really cant understand how you can defend a strategy like this, its obvious the guy is a blowhard who got lucky a few times. A snake oil salesman and as always the idiots fall for it.

Im sorry but only thing that i see in his track record and consistency is albeit him getting into drawdowns of this magnitude, hes always more than made up for it and then some. So as long as you replicated his trades to the specifications advised youd be fine

Smarter investors would look at his track record and see hes managed 30% dd before so no surprises there

When he has escaped drawdown period this consistently, one has got to consider the fact its not just sheet luck.

Ill give it to you that his trade entries are a bit crude and often time a little too early, doesnt make him wrong.

Maybe try to remove your emotions and be objevtive with your views
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 16, 2019, 03:52:58 PM
Do you know why otb mfxbook account is not updating from 21 hours?
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
Its quite possible hes away and hasnt got his MT4 open to provide update to myfxbook.
but rest assured he has his eyes on the account as well as the trades.


Dont be naive. He is holding and hoping at this point. He is all-in on this and if it works out then good but if it doesnt, you can expect a margin call. Even if he gets lucky and it works out, this will keep happening over and over again. Thats just how this strategy works and I am surprised that people still keep falling for this amateur. I guess shoving the system in everyones face on every forum all the time has an effect on certain people, even though its very, very bad.

Thing about OTB is that hes never really all in on any position and hes got adequate available margin to trade his way out of this. besides, the dow is in dire need of a correction. the next earnings season coming out for the Quarter end of Q1 is going to be ugly.... Q1 has typically been a bad quarter but i wouldnt be surprised if trade disputes is going to cause a big miss in earnings. think about it.... Fed abruptly stopped hiking for a reason.

Bunds are flying this morning, risk off sentiments about to poke its head out...

16-Apr-2019 17:13:28 - SEVERAL ECB POLICYMAKERS DOUBT PROJECTIONS FOR GROWTH REBOUND IN H2, SOME EVEN QUESTION ACCURACY OF FORECASTING MODELS: SOURCES


You are missing the point. Its not about his reasoning for trades, its about how he is not able to manage the risk and consistently gets in these DDs. Do you really think he will get lucky every time this happens? His strategy is one of holding and hoping. Thats why his stats are so bad and he keeps blowing accounts left and right. I really cant understand how you can defend a strategy like this, its obvious the guy is a blowhard who got lucky a few times. A snake oil salesman and as always the idiots fall for it.

Im sorry but only thing that i see in his track record and consistency is albeit him getting into drawdowns of this magnitude, hes always more than made up for it and then some. So as long as you replicated his trades to the specifications advised youd be fine

Smarter investors would look at his track record and see hes managed 30% dd before so no surprises there

When he has escaped drawdown period this consistently, one has got to consider the fact its not just sheet luck.

Ill give it to you that his trade entries are a bit crude and often time a little too early, doesnt make him wrong.

Maybe try to remove your emotions and be objevtive with your views

I am not invested with this guy and never have been so I dont have any emotions about it. I only comment on what I see and if you think this is sustainable, then you are mistaken. His max DD is over 30% and he is making less than 4% per month. And who knows what his equity stop is. Nobody can know that because he keeps changing the rules as he goes. So its possible he is risking 100% to make 4% monthly. Just because he got lucky a few times and the price came back, doesnt make him a good trader. You also keep glossing over all the blown accounts he has had recently. Is that fine with you as well?


I will not argue about this with you anymore but I suggest you do some research on how trading should be conducted. This is very amateurish and he knows it. Thats why he is quiet and doesnt want to come on here to respond. He will only start bragging again when/if he gets out of this mess. Then we will have to read him singing praises to himself again until the next DD. There is a good reason why people are complaining about him on all forums.

And one more thing. Smarter would have never invested with him as there are plenty of much better options out there. I guess you did invest and thats why you still think it was a smart decision  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 16, 2019, 05:04:52 PM
Well, i have been invested with OTB since the very start, have withdrawn my capital ive invested so im pretty much risk free at this point. I actually know the person in real here in Hong Kong, and I can tell you he has folks in the industry advising him.

So let me try to address some issues
1. Lets address the drawdown issue, when it comes to investong or starting a business, a typical business take 2-3 years to get to the break even point and if you cant grow 20% year on year at the early stages then your internal rate of return doesnt make sense to invest in the first place

2.This is an investment and one should look it at that. Yes he has been on 30% drawdown runs? But this most recent drawdown run is due to the fact he started to trade the dow so for him to trade such an instrument to still stay within the max drawdown limit he has had in his track record from trading currencies, hes doing fine for now

3. I see lots of people in here complaining about trade copying him and when OTB started to trade usdzar and usdtry, some people got burnt. Ill give them that, but OTB isnt the only one to be blamed... a. Trade copiers are to be blamed for not managing the symbols traded, b. Signal copiers need not complain about crazy spreads and slippages, if you lost money on usdzar and usdtry trades when it should be in green then blame urself for having a shitty broker, learn your lesson and move on to a better broker, OTB does provide managed account service witha broker thats not shady as most retail brokers out their that’ll slip you 100 pips on usdtry or

4. Reading a little bit more, looks to me most people complaining have been someone who thinks they know better by buying into the signal copy subscription and not bother to maintain the copiers on their end or heck even researched enough on which brokers they should be using, and the. They come here whining about how unfair things are for them, if they wanted the hassle free opportunity they shouldve just went for the managed account option. But then again most folks here are cheap ass anyways... why pay 30% performance fee when you can get the same for 79 usd a month, right? Well you get what you paid for..... and being lazy has a price to pay, either pay for the losses your brokers causing you on slippage and spreads, or pay for the hassle free performance fee

5. Its easy for you to stay on the fence making these feedback when your comments arent exactly value add...

I leave it at that, not going to argue further or waste anymore time on this

PS. Spare me about my typos, i know Ive got loads on this post, but you try typing something quick on your mobile.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: user456 on April 16, 2019, 06:12:43 PM
This is getting funny. I mean obviously, that guy is just a seller and not a trader. He is shoveling his trading signals into everyone's face at every opportunity. Flavored with a good portion of arrogance and garnished with some know-it-all wisdom.

Just take a look at the trading metrics of his systems. 94% winning trades. Seriously? It's obvious that this is hold and pray trading. Clearly, those strategies sell best. Somehow many people have the impression it's mandatory to have a straight balance curve and high winning percentage to be a good trader.
Accounts disconnected from myfxbook? Coincidence? More likely he wants to save his stats and will only reconnect once (if) he recovered. Knowingly trading exotics like try/usd with accounts created for signal copying is totally reckless. Same goes for the Dow contracts. Many brokers only allow full lots on those. Impossible to manage risk that way. So he is either ignorant or reckless.

First I thought this fxtyrant guy was an awesome level ... unfortunately, he seems to be for real
knowing that nickname from forexfactory, surely those two are a kindred spirit,  ;D
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 12:07:20 AM
Well, i have been invested with OTB since the very start, have withdrawn my capital ive invested so im pretty much risk free at this point. I actually know the person in real here in Hong Kong, and I can tell you he has folks in the industry advising him.

So let me try to address some issues
1. Lets address the drawdown issue, when it comes to investong or starting a business, a typical business take 2-3 years to get to the break even point and if you cant grow 20% year on year at the early stages then your internal rate of return doesnt make sense to invest in the first place

2.This is an investment and one should look it at that. Yes he has been on 30% drawdown runs? But this most recent drawdown run is due to the fact he started to trade the dow so for him to trade such an instrument to still stay within the max drawdown limit he has had in his track record from trading currencies, hes doing fine for now

3. I see lots of people in here complaining about trade copying him and when OTB started to trade usdzar and usdtry, some people got burnt. Ill give them that, but OTB isnt the only one to be blamed... a. Trade copiers are to be blamed for not managing the symbols traded, b. Signal copiers need not complain about crazy spreads and slippages, if you lost money on usdzar and usdtry trades when it should be in green then blame urself for having a shitty broker, learn your lesson and move on to a better broker, OTB does provide managed account service witha broker thats not shady as most retail brokers out their that’ll slip you 100 pips on usdtry or

4. Reading a little bit more, looks to me most people complaining have been someone who thinks they know better by buying into the signal copy subscription and not bother to maintain the copiers on their end or heck even researched enough on which brokers they should be using, and the. They come here whining about how unfair things are for them, if they wanted the hassle free opportunity they shouldve just went for the managed account option. But then again most folks here are cheap ass anyways... why pay 30% performance fee when you can get the same for 79 usd a month, right? Well you get what you paid for..... and being lazy has a price to pay, either pay for the losses your brokers causing you on slippage and spreads, or pay for the hassle free performance fee

5. Its easy for you to stay on the fence making these feedback when your comments arent exactly value add...

I leave it at that, not going to argue further or waste anymore time on this

PS. Spare me about my typos, i know Ive got loads on this post, but you try typing something quick on your mobile.


1. His max historical DD was actually 62% as Darwinex shows. Myfxbook DD is not reliable as it can easily be manipulated. Can you explain that discrepancy? And why are all his accounts disconnected? I can tell you why. He is manipulating the DD just like he did before. And again you just dismissed his multiple blown accounts. Thats the 3rd time you did that so you are apparently willing to give him a pass on that.

2. Whats his max DD limit? Is it 65%? I mean the historical max DD has been 62% so the max limit should be at least 65% until he crosses it and sets a new limit of a margin call  ;D

3. Its true that as a signal provider he is only responsible for his own account. But on the other hand he should at least be considerate to his subs and give them a heads up when he starts changing his strategy by trading pairs he never traded before. They signed up for one thing but are getting something else.  He seems to not care about that and runs from responsibility. Its everyone elses fault but his every single time.

4.  I did not complain about any of that, I am of the same opinion as you on this issue. People are cheap, they rather sub to signals and get burned. Thats a given.

5. Just because I am not invested with this guy means I shouldnt comment on someone pushing his bull****? Thats some world class logic right there. Next you are going to tell me that I am not able to tell if I like a dish or not because I am not a professional cheff.


Also your defense of him should be dissregarded because you know the guy personally. You are biased and thats why you keep defending him.

If he has folks in the industry advising him to missmanage the risks and trading assets he knows nothing about then its actually sad. I wouldnt use that as a selling point.

And one last thing. Why is he keeping quiet? He is on 10 different forums bragging about his various funds, institutional accounts, big investors, profits etc. when things are going well and his accounts are not in the toilet. But in the last few days he disconnected the accounts and is not active anywhere. Why do you think that is? He just doesnt have time to drop a line here? He is too busy all of the sudden?

The whole thing is laughable and every one who has half a brain knows whats going to happen eventually. It might even happen this time around. It surely doesnt look very good...


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 17, 2019, 05:17:13 AM
I dont think mr. Outofthebox is silent. He is just logging in under different
Usernames for now to defend him self.

Fxtyrant is one of the usernames

1) he said he has invested from the beginning of the equity curve, so he put his money before even seeing the perfect straight equity curve. (Yeah right!)

2) complete disregard of the actual max drawdown value. (This is exactly what mr. outofbox does)

3) he says if you have not invested in the system you should not comment. (Exactly what mr. Outofbox says).

4) the username only made a few posts on this forum. Specifically on this thread.

Its ridiculously obvious and this happened with many scam vendors in the past where they sometimes got busted ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: DamBuster on April 17, 2019, 05:45:36 AM
I dont think mr. Outofthebox is silent. He is just logging in under different
Usernames for now to defend him self.

Fxtyrant is one of the usernames

This is being investigated and action will be taken if proved right
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 06:30:19 AM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petersurrey on April 17, 2019, 07:34:05 AM
Lessons to be learnt:

99%+ of all signal providers are just fancy marketing schemes, with clever forex jargon used to lure in the unwary..why would they offer signals if they could keep all the profit themselves..

Leverage is the REAL killer -  OTB results at 10% published look a lot better...a trader should be able to trade at 1:1 and still make a decent income from a 10K account IF he is any good.

All investors should accept responsibility for their actions, and not delegate huge amounts to reckless traders - whatever they promise. Set maximum risk % per account and stick to it using equity protect bots which are freely available.

Greed and huge short term returns can cloud our judgment as to what risk is being used with each trade.

Sorry for those with losses and it is very easy as an outsider to preach what many already know...



Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 07:36:53 AM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.



Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I wonder why you chose not to speak now but in the past you have been shoving your trading in everyones face at every opportunity, even when discussing other peoples systems you couldnt help yourself. But this is what you do, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you say one thing, next day another and so on. You are never consistent and it shows in your trading as well and I am glad people finally started taking notice of the crap you have been selling for so long.

If I had those kinds of results, I for sure would not be advertising them but you are shameless and have no sense of reality and thats why you keep doing it. You have to be a "special" person to be able to do it. And that may actually be a good thing in this business where there are so many naive investors who dont know what they are doing and put their money in crap like you are offering.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 09:46:18 AM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.



Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I wonder why you chose not to speak now but in the past you have been shoving your trading in everyones face at every opportunity, even when discussing other peoples systems you couldnt help yourself. But this is what you do, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you say one thing, next day another and so on. You are never consistent and it shows in your trading as well and I am glad people finally started taking notice of the crap you have been selling for so long.

If I had those kinds of results, I for sure would not be advertising them but you are shameless and have no sense of reality and thats why you keep doing it. You have to be a "special" person to be able to do it. And that may actually be a good thing in this business where there are so many naive investors who dont know what they are doing and put their money in crap like you are offering.
You guys speak like you've found something no one else knows or that you think is brilliant. If you were so brilliant then why didn't you know all this to begin with. I researched all this in 2016 and knew it ahead of time. The thing is, brokers make serious money off dreamers, addicts, gamblers, and naivete.
This is the pain part of "no pain no gain"
You want the easy ticket to riches, which is imprudent and lacks the necessary resilience. I've been in this "trade other people's money" business for 2 years. Go back. Read everything. I spoke about all you have said. You just wanted me to repeat all sound advice for you at the drop of a hat, but this is your responsibility. Your homework. Your caution, prudence, risk management, and plan. I have these.
And it's why the profit I made so far on trading, commissions, performance fees, and subscriptions is far far greater than the eventual losses from the high risk signals which have blown up.
In my own trading career spanning 15 years I have blown up approximately 7 accounts.
I know how to do it though and live to recover and move to new equity highs overall.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 09:56:24 AM
I dont think mr. Outofthebox is silent. He is just logging in under different
Usernames for now to defend him self.

Fxtyrant is one of the usernames

1) he said he has invested from the beginning of the equity curve, so he put his money before even seeing the perfect straight equity curve. (Yeah right!)

2) complete disregard of the actual max drawdown value. (This is exactly what mr. outofbox does)

3) he says if you have not invested in the system you should not comment. (Exactly what mr. Outofbox says).

4) the username only made a few posts on this forum. Specifically on this thread.

Its ridiculously obvious and this happened with many scam vendors in the past where they sometimes got busted ;)
Mate Im not OTB thats for sure lol
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 09:59:47 AM
I dont think mr. Outofthebox is silent. He is just logging in under different
Usernames for now to defend him self.

Fxtyrant is one of the usernames

This is being investigated and action will be taken if proved right
So mod... tell me am I OTB?? Whats the verdict??

In fact can you look into investigating  these other poster who have just as little post as I do here on donna forex and have them removed if they misbehave?

Too much insidious attacks on OTB. Yet they dont really add value like show us how much better they are at trading perhaps...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 10:04:40 AM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.



Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I wonder why you chose not to speak now but in the past you have been shoving your trading in everyones face at every opportunity, even when discussing other peoples systems you couldnt help yourself. But this is what you do, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you say one thing, next day another and so on. You are never consistent and it shows in your trading as well and I am glad people finally started taking notice of the crap you have been selling for so long.

If I had those kinds of results, I for sure would not be advertising them but you are shameless and have no sense of reality and thats why you keep doing it. You have to be a "special" person to be able to do it. And that may actually be a good thing in this business where there are so many naive investors who dont know what they are doing and put their money in crap like you are offering.
You guys speak like you've found something no one else knows or that you think is brilliant. If you were so brilliant then why didn't you know all this to begin with. I researched all this in 2016 and knew it ahead of time. The thing is, brokers make serious money off dreamers, addicts, gamblers, and naivete.
This is the pain part of "no pain no gain"
You want the easy ticket to riches, which is imprudent and lacks the necessary resilience. I've been in this "trade other people's money" business for 2 years. Go back. Read everything. I spoke about all you have said. You just wanted me to repeat all sound advice for you at the drop of a hat, but this is your responsibility. Your homework. Your caution, prudence, risk management, and plan. I have these.
And it's why the profit I made so far on trading, commissions, performance fees, and subscriptions is far far greater than the eventual losses from the high risk signals which have blown up.
In my own trading career spanning 15 years I have blown up approximately 7 accounts.
I know how to do it though and live to recover and move to new equity highs overall.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


You have blown 7 accounts in 15 years? Then you must be getting worse with time because you have blown at least 3 in the last few months alone.

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/486929
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-scalping-1/3159383

These are different accounts, all blown in the last 3 months. And you really think that people will believe that you have blown 4 accounts in 15 previous years?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The more I read from you the more I am getting a feeling that you dont live in reality. Seems to me like you live in your own world, completely disconnected to what everyone else is seeing. Pure delusion.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 10:05:19 AM
Lessons to be learnt:

99%+ of all signal providers are just fancy marketing schemes, with clever forex jargon used to lure in the unwary..why would they offer signals if they could keep all the profit themselves..

Leverage is the REAL killer -  OTB results at 10% published look a lot better...a trader should be able to trade at 1:1 and still make a decent income from a 10K account IF he is any good.

All investors should accept responsibility for their actions, and not delegate huge amounts to reckless traders - whatever they promise. Set maximum risk % per account and stick to it using equity protect bots which are freely available.

Greed and huge short term returns can cloud our judgment as to what risk is being used with each trade.

Sorry for those with losses and it is very easy as an outsider to preach what many already know...
As much as i appreciate your seniority on these forum... surely you do know that you need more than 10k usd to participate in trading fx at leverage 1:1


Even in interbank trading via fxall, bbg fxgo, you cant trade at sizes lower than  lower than 1mio
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 10:08:30 AM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.



Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I wonder why you chose not to speak now but in the past you have been shoving your trading in everyones face at every opportunity, even when discussing other peoples systems you couldnt help yourself. But this is what you do, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you say one thing, next day another and so on. You are never consistent and it shows in your trading as well and I am glad people finally started taking notice of the crap you have been selling for so long.

If I had those kinds of results, I for sure would not be advertising them but you are shameless and have no sense of reality and thats why you keep doing it. You have to be a "special" person to be able to do it. And that may actually be a good thing in this business where there are so many naive investors who dont know what they are doing and put their money in crap like you are offering.
You guys speak like you've found something no one else knows or that you think is brilliant. If you were so brilliant then why didn't you know all this to begin with. I researched all this in 2016 and knew it ahead of time. The thing is, brokers make serious money off dreamers, addicts, gamblers, and naivete.
This is the pain part of "no pain no gain"
You want the easy ticket to riches, which is imprudent and lacks the necessary resilience. I've been in this "trade other people's money" business for 2 years. Go back. Read everything. I spoke about all you have said. You just wanted me to repeat all sound advice for you at the drop of a hat, but this is your responsibility. Your homework. Your caution, prudence, risk management, and plan. I have these.
And it's why the profit I made so far on trading, commissions, performance fees, and subscriptions is far far greater than the eventual losses from the high risk signals which have blown up.
In my own trading career spanning 15 years I have blown up approximately 7 accounts.
I know how to do it though and live to recover and move to new equity highs overall.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


You have blown 7 accounts in 15 years? Then you must be getting worse with time because you have blown at least 3 in the last few months alone.

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/486929
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-scalping-1/3159383

These are different accounts, all blown in the last 3 months. And you really think that people will believe that you have blown 4 accounts in 15 previous years?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The more I read from you the more I am getting a feeling that you dont live in reality. Seems to me like you live in your own world, completely disconnected to what everyone else is seeing. Pure delusion.
He’s already mentioned before that on top of running his baseline account at 1x risk, he has other accounts at higher risk in case other investors are interested

The accounts that blew up were his higher risk factored accounts.
No surprises there

Even better now for him to just focus on trading his 1x, clearly he has been juggling far too many accounts with various risk sizing...

Good now he can focus on his 1x
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 17, 2019, 10:14:31 AM
It is easy said than done.

As a signal provider you need to communicate to the people about your plan.

I lost one account and it is okay as I know it was a high risk account but what I still didn't understand is your lack of communication. I still remember when I asked if you plan to deposit money to the account and you just went to silent mode and did not say anything. When I saw that my open positioned get sliced with a loss I realized that you deposit to the account which make a miss match between the master account and slave account.

You still blame people for your mistakes and this is not acceptable. I don't want you to stay here and answer each question but to give more attention to the open trades, however lack of communication is not as the same as giving attention to trades rather than focusing on hate comments.

I understand your way of trading and your way of communication and did not invest after the blown up account because of the way you communicate and the way you blame customers for you own lack of communication.

Good luck to you and your customers but don't expect us to stay silent and allow you to advertise your signal without a true feedback about your service and the way of communication.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 10:27:55 AM
It is easy said than done.

As a signal provider you need to communicate to the people about your plan.

I lost one account and it is okay as I know it was a high risk account but what I still didn't understand is your lack of communication. I still remember when I asked if you plan to deposit money to the account and you just went to silent mode and did not say anything. When I saw that my open positioned get sliced with a loss I realized that you deposit to the account which make a miss match between the master account and slave account.

You still blame people for your mistakes and this is not acceptable. I don't want you to stay here and answer each question but to give more attention to the open trades, however lack of communication is not as the same as giving attention to trades rather than focusing on hate comments.

I understand your way of trading and your way of communication and did not invest after the blown up account because of the way you communicate and the way you blame customers for you own lack of communication.

Good luck to you and your customers but don't expect us to stay silent and allow you to advertise your signal without a true feedback about your service and the way of communication.

Im with you on this. I too think his communication could be better

Right now seems like hes doing far too many things at the same time on his own

He desperately needs an investor relationship kind of guy like any fund would have to ensure communication doesnt fall off

Anyways up to OTB how he decides to run his business
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: petersurrey on April 17, 2019, 10:45:27 AM
Lessons to be learnt:

99%+ of all signal providers are just fancy marketing schemes, with clever forex jargon used to lure in the unwary..why would they offer signals if they could keep all the profit themselves..

Leverage is the REAL killer -  OTB results at 10% published look a lot better...a trader should be able to trade at 1:1 and still make a decent income from a 10K account IF he is any good.

All investors should accept responsibility for their actions, and not delegate huge amounts to reckless traders - whatever they promise. Set maximum risk % per account and stick to it using equity protect bots which are freely available.

Greed and huge short term returns can cloud our judgment as to what risk is being used with each trade.

Sorry for those with losses and it is very easy as an outsider to preach what many already know...
As much as i appreciate your seniority on these forum... surely you do know that you need more than 10k usd to participate in trading fx at leverage 1:1


Even in interbank trading via fxall, bbg fxgo, you cant trade at sizes lower than  lower than 1mio

Trading 0.1 lot or 1 mini lot = taking a 10000 USD position

Trading at 1:1 = trading 1 mini lot using a 10K USD account ie. trading at zero leverage, and certainly no issue for any broker.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: user456 on April 17, 2019, 10:52:15 AM
I researched all this in 2016 and knew it ahead of time. The thing is, brokers scammers make serious money off dreamers, addicts, gamblers, and naivete.
[...]
And it's why the profit I made so far on trading, commissions, performance fees, and subscriptions is far far greater than the eventual losses from the high risk signals which have blown up.
Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

FYP. I read somewhere that you claimed to have around 600+ subscribers to your signals. If this is anywhere close to true you are making obscene amounts of money on the back of your naive subscribers. I bet you don't mind a couple of blown accounts. LOL.
Why don't you put up some of this "hard earned" money into your own accounts?  ;D
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 10:53:30 AM
Lessons to be learnt:

99%+ of all signal providers are just fancy marketing schemes, with clever forex jargon used to lure in the unwary..why would they offer signals if they could keep all the profit themselves..

Leverage is the REAL killer -  OTB results at 10% published look a lot better...a trader should be able to trade at 1:1 and still make a decent income from a 10K account IF he is any good.

All investors should accept responsibility for their actions, and not delegate huge amounts to reckless traders - whatever they promise. Set maximum risk % per account and stick to it using equity protect bots which are freely available.

Greed and huge short term returns can cloud our judgment as to what risk is being used with each trade.

Sorry for those with losses and it is very easy as an outsider to preach what many already know...
As much as i appreciate your seniority on these forum... surely you do know that you need more than 10k usd to participate in trading fx at leverage 1:1


Even in interbank trading via fxall, bbg fxgo, you cant trade at sizes lower than  lower than 1mio

Trading 0.1 lot or 1 mini lot = taking a 10000 USD position

Trading at 1:1 = trading 1 mini lot using a 10K USD account ie. trading at zero leverage, and certainly no issue for any broker.
And thats very limiting because you can only take 1 position 1x 0.1 lot or 10 of 0.01 lot and on top of that... with so many currency vol at 4/5 vols, the expected trading range is 0.25% in a day for the likes of eurusd....
Imagine just makin 0.25% of your 10,000 usd

Fyi at 16 vol the daily expected return ranges +/- 1% and only currency i see at 16 vol is usdtry...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 11:08:08 AM
I have 70% of my whole net worth at risk in my own trading accounts.  11 accounts, 9 visible on myfxbook.
I will always run my risk a bit hot on the medium risk (also still alive) and high risk, because I know how to take profits off the table at regular intervals.  For example, I just deposited $3500 more into the high risk account, building it back up, keeping risk to 20% or below, taking profits, growing profits 4x, then maybe in one year (or even 6 months) that one might fail again.... rinse repeat.  I also have 4x, 3x, and 2x risk accounts of my own connected privately to the PAMM I manage thru the most excellent Mt Cook Financial.  This has led to compounding of capital, growth upon growth, that is quite impressive to me.  Allows me to trade for a living, and keeps me away from the slavery of employment.

I began my journey by doing heaps and heaps of research.
I then set out (go back and read it on all the forums) to "BEAT the brokers at their own game" because I was just as pissed as many of you are when I lost and the broker kept winning.
I now can say that I have done this.
Those of you who count me as an adversary are quite unfortunate, because I am way more capable of being "on your side" than you can possibly imagine.  But I don't help people who don't respect me and my time.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: user456 on April 17, 2019, 11:39:35 AM
I have 70% of my whole net worth at risk in my own trading accounts.  11 accounts, 9 visible on myfxbook.

You are either lying about the number of subscribers or the percentage of your invested net worth. The net deposits (withdrawals substracted) into the visible myfxbook accounts are just around 18k combined. Claiming to have 600+ subscribers and making 20k in a bad month you should have a lot more to your name even if you have absurd living expenses. I guess those two private accounts hold the lion's share of your equity and you decided to keep them private because you don't like to brag  ;D

Quote
Those of you who count me as an adversary are quite unfortunate, because I am way more capable of being "on your side" than you can possibly imagine.  But I don't help people who don't respect me and my time.

I'd rather not have guys like you on my side. I have been in this business long enough to see them come and go. Unfortunately, everytime one of you vanishes at least two others respawn.


This thread is getting OVERHEATED; please tone it down and use "civil" language!
Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 12:06:58 PM
You guys are wrong.
And I choose silence and work and travel and real life over talk and bashing and criticism with no productivity.
I will chime in when necessary.
Fxtyrant works for finance industry here in HK. I have my own Ltd company and am sole director.
Does this help anything?
Does it satiate your appetite to mythbust?
Does it help you find a sacred golden goose?
The natives are always restless. Quiet people are much much better, wiser and more productive in my experience.



Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I wonder why you chose not to speak now but in the past you have been shoving your trading in everyones face at every opportunity, even when discussing other peoples systems you couldnt help yourself. But this is what you do, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. One day you say one thing, next day another and so on. You are never consistent and it shows in your trading as well and I am glad people finally started taking notice of the crap you have been selling for so long.

If I had those kinds of results, I for sure would not be advertising them but you are shameless and have no sense of reality and thats why you keep doing it. You have to be a "special" person to be able to do it. And that may actually be a good thing in this business where there are so many naive investors who dont know what they are doing and put their money in crap like you are offering.
You guys speak like you've found something no one else knows or that you think is brilliant. If you were so brilliant then why didn't you know all this to begin with. I researched all this in 2016 and knew it ahead of time. The thing is, brokers make serious money off dreamers, addicts, gamblers, and naivete.
This is the pain part of "no pain no gain"
You want the easy ticket to riches, which is imprudent and lacks the necessary resilience. I've been in this "trade other people's money" business for 2 years. Go back. Read everything. I spoke about all you have said. You just wanted me to repeat all sound advice for you at the drop of a hat, but this is your responsibility. Your homework. Your caution, prudence, risk management, and plan. I have these.
And it's why the profit I made so far on trading, commissions, performance fees, and subscriptions is far far greater than the eventual losses from the high risk signals which have blown up.
In my own trading career spanning 15 years I have blown up approximately 7 accounts.
I know how to do it though and live to recover and move to new equity highs overall.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


You have blown 7 accounts in 15 years? Then you must be getting worse with time because you have blown at least 3 in the last few months alone.

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-hfcopy-provider-2/2747326
https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/486929
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-scalping-1/3159383

These are different accounts, all blown in the last 3 months. And you really think that people will believe that you have blown 4 accounts in 15 previous years?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

The more I read from you the more I am getting a feeling that you dont live in reality. Seems to me like you live in your own world, completely disconnected to what everyone else is seeing. Pure delusion.
He’s already mentioned before that on top of running his baseline account at 1x risk, he has other accounts at higher risk in case other investors are interested

The accounts that blew up were his higher risk factored accounts.
No surprises there

Even better now for him to just focus on trading his 1x, clearly he has been juggling far too many accounts with various risk sizing...

Good now he can focus on his 1x


Thats completely beside the point. He said himself he "only" blew 7 accounts in 15 years. Wouldnt you say that hard to believe knowing that he killed 3 accounts in the past 3 months alone? This argument has nothing to do with risk. If you say 7 it means 7 regardless of risk. If dont count my high risk accounts, I can say I never blew and account in my life. Of course that would be very selective and it looks like thats what you both are doing.

On top of that these high risk accounts just show complete disregard for subs and whoring for subscription money. He knows that most subs are complete newbies and when they see a 40% profit in a month, they will subscribe. He knows that the account will get blown up soon but he doesnt mention it, he rather says its possible. Thats a huge difference in the minds of naive people who hang on to hope of hitting the lottery. Its unethical and a bad business practice long term. And thats why he is receiving so much criticism. If he was just trading and not arrogantly shove his trading down everyones throats, people would only have things to say about his system but the guy is as arrogant as it gets despite his piss poor performance.

I dont know who he works with in HK but I would like to know those institutions so I stay as far away as possible. If they see potential in this guy, I wouldnt trust a them with a cent of my money as their evaluation skills are clearly lacking.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 12:26:37 PM
Ok I'm checking out now.
I've been here for 2 years, one of the longest running signals still kicking,.
If you want to say I'm a poor trader, then back it up with my performance stats and/or full equity curve charts. Medium and low risk doing awesomely. High risk re-started.
And I'll still be here in one year, resilient, profitable, and determined. You say arrogant, I know this is not the correct adjective. But not sure what you're ultimate agenda is in being here commenting so much.
I want to make money. And I'm putting the effort in for something positive for my life.
What about you?

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: namrfigk on April 17, 2019, 12:49:04 PM
it was a right decision to long when otb was short 8)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 01:33:24 PM
it was a right decision to long when otb was short 8)

This is infantile. reported.
This is the needless trolling I was talking about.
Do you make all your trades public so we can criticise you every loser you have and during every drawdown?
Can you prove that you actually went long DOW when I went short?
Can you show a track record of trading performance that is longer /better than the one I have made public?
Anyway, this is the crap that should be removed along with some of the other just downright abusive and unproductive banter that has happened here.
Enter any drawdown --- and all the haters and small minds come out to play.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 17, 2019, 01:48:22 PM
Can we get some insight as to what is the plan with the Dow trades because I'm riding 30% draw downs as ic markets only allows minimum 1 lot and this is after closing 1 of them for 15% loss already.
If this is purely holding and praying while the Dow is the best it's ever been, then this has gotten way scarier
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 01:57:32 PM
Can we get some insight as to what is the plan with the Dow trades because I'm riding 30% draw downs as ic markets only allows minimum 1 lot and this is after closing 1 of them for 15% loss already.
If this is purely holding and praying while the Dow is the best it's ever been, then this has gotten way scarier
Reasonable request
Id love to get some insight in this too
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on April 17, 2019, 02:07:13 PM
it was a right decision to long when otb was short 8)

This is infantile. reported.
This is the needless trolling I was talking about.
Do you make all your trades public so we can criticise you every loser you have and during every drawdown?
Can you prove that you actually went long DOW when I went short?
Can you show a track record of trading performance that is longer /better than the one I have made public?
Anyway, this is the crap that should be removed along with some of the other just downright abusive and unproductive banter that has happened here.
Enter any drawdown --- and all the haters and small minds come out to play.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind asking posters if they can get better results than a vendor.

When I go to a grocery store and look at all the different loaves of bread available I have to make a choice. That choice is made from possible past experience with that item, input from other people I know, or research. Or it may just look ugly and I say no.

Never am I asked if I can bake a better loaf when I don't like a particular one! I buy something because I think the seller can do a better job at it than I can or has the time to do it. It is the same thing with a Forex Signal or PAMM. People purchase those products because they think the seller can do a better job than they can, or the seller has more time available to trade.

A vendor asking people in a forum if they can trade better than he/she does is totally illogical and I believe is just being used as a method of harassing critical posters.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 02:20:12 PM

I just don't understand the reasoning behind asking posters if they can get better results than a vendor.
When I go to a grocery store and look at all the different loaves of bread available I have to make a choice. That choice is made from possible past experience with that item, input from other people I know, or research. Or it may just look ugly and I say no.

Never am I asked if I can bake a better loaf when I don't like a particular one!Cheers,
Rod

You assume everyone here taking shots at me and my trading are here with honest and directed intentions of searching for a signal to subscribe to.
These and many others are not showing that they are truly willing to debate fairly and completely.

Using your analogy.... if I'm selling bread, sell pretty good loaves for 2 years, and then intermittently my oven slows down or burns the bread a bit, then someone comes near my shop and starts yelling "his oven is broken, his oven is broken", and I'm working my ass off to fix it and continue with business tasks as usual, then this dude who really wasn't there for good reasons tells some of this friends to do the same (until my oven is fixed).... not cool.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 02:23:30 PM
Can we get some insight as to what is the plan with the Dow trades because I'm riding 30% draw downs as ic markets only allows minimum 1 lot and this is after closing 1 of them for 15% loss already.
If this is purely holding and praying while the Dow is the best it's ever been, then this has gotten way scarier

The absolute top of S&P and Dow is NOT the time to cut losing trades.
I wait, keep drawdown near 30%, add to booked profits, keep the equity line moving upwards, and then see at least a 5% correction in equities in the next month or so after Easter for many reasons that make up a risk off market.

Picking up positive swap for these 3 shorts too.
If we don't get the correction, I will scale out.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: namrfigk on April 17, 2019, 02:24:19 PM
it was a right decision to long when otb was short 8)

This is infantile. reported.
This is the needless trolling I was talking about.
Do you make all your trades public so we can criticise you every loser you have and during every drawdown?
Can you prove that you actually went long DOW when I went short?
Can you show a track record of trading performance that is longer /better than the one I have made public?
Anyway, this is the crap that should be removed along with some of the other just downright abusive and unproductive banter that has happened here.
Enter any drawdown --- and all the haters and small minds come out to play.

A simple upwards breakout movement from the DOW has befuddled you and your tons of research
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on April 17, 2019, 02:39:50 PM

I just don't understand the reasoning behind asking posters if they can get better results than a vendor.
When I go to a grocery store and look at all the different loaves of bread available I have to make a choice. That choice is made from possible past experience with that item, input from other people I know, or research. Or it may just look ugly and I say no.

Never am I asked if I can bake a better loaf when I don't like a particular one!Cheers,
Rod
You assume everyone here taking shots at me and my trading are here with honest and directed intentions of searching for a signal to subscribe to.
These and many others are not showing that they are truly willing to debate fairly and completely.

I don't assume that all posters here are searching for a signal to sub to. Several are here to share their knowledge, experience and insights on what makes a good signal, or what things to be concerned about. That is the main purpose of a Forum: to share knowledge. I don't believe the Forum exists just for vendors to advertise. In fact it's a real privilege that is given to vendors to post here. It should not be abused.

You may not like some of the information that is shared but all posters have the right to give their opinions as long as it is done in a decent manner.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 02:41:23 PM
Ok I'm checking out now.
I've been here for 2 years, one of the longest running signals still kicking,.
If you want to say I'm a poor trader, then back it up with my performance stats and/or full equity curve charts. Medium and low risk doing awesomely. High risk re-started.
And I'll still be here in one year, resilient, profitable, and determined. You say arrogant, I know this is not the correct adjective. But not sure what you're ultimate agenda is in being here commenting so much.
I want to make money. And I'm putting the effort in for something positive for my life.
What about you?

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk


I also want to make money and I am doing it, I just chose a different way. I dont trade, I invest with traders who are actually good. And there are at least 100 of them on Darwinex alone that have way better systems than yours. I guess they should all be working for some Fund like you are  8) 8)

I backed my claims up with posting 3 of your blown accounts in 2019. And again, you are delusional if you think your "flagsihp" accounts are doing awesomely. You are at 33% floating DD and havent made any profit since October 2018, thats 6-7 months now. You may think its fine but I guarantee you that nobody else does.

Talking about arrogance, do you really want me to paste some of the comments you wrote in the past on various forums? You really want to go there??? In the last few weeks since the DD you got humbled even though you still slip up from time to time with ridiculous claims of your accounts doing awesomely while 33% in DD which is just ridiculous and makes anyone wonder about your mental state. I have hard time believing a sane person would be making such claims.

You are proving my point about your mental state for me by reporting a comment you deem infantile. The guy just said that it was a good decision to trade against you which has been true for the last 6 months. The comment was meant as a joke (maybe he actually did go against you, who knows?) but at this point you are so sensitive that you decided to report him.

All the criticisms of you and your trading here are 100% legit. Thats not trolling just because you dont like it.

And I also find it funny that you have a problem with people commenting on your system, even if they dont have their money on the line with you. You call us unproductive. But on the other hand you do the exact same thing, you post comments on multiple other systems threads across many forums.

Here is an example:
And now you cannot purchase the single EAs anymore
https://scrptx.com/market/
Only the full package for 500, the boat is sinking ant they need to cash before the track record will become worthless.
Especially when you turn a swing trading into some kind of daytrading or night scalping...

SCS was trading 50 pips now it is trading 10 .

The "after holiday" behaviour has nothing to do with the former strategy.
Many trading behaviors have changed: So we explain also the hike on divergence and D-Leverage.
Capacity is a bit more lagging but it has already fallen from 5 to 2.2 .
The puzzle is complete.
Last edited by OutsideTheBoxHK; 02-17-2019, 07:38 PM.



This is just one of many posts you have written under systems you are not invested with. So why exactly cant we do that? Its ok when you do it to others but its not ok when we do it to you? Were you also trolling?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 03:07:52 PM
I admit, I don't have as much time as you do to devote to activities that are not directly immediately related to making profits for myself and clients.
So I will be brief.
Open DD is currently 25% ..... you are wrong.  Get your facts straight. 
Hot links with current stats: 
https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899
 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347)
Booked profit over last 6 weeks ...... 13.4% plus 7.4% in April so far.
And February was a 7.5% profit month.


Saying that I haven't made new equity highs since October 2018 is false.
The equity amount has been at equity highs after March 14 onwards.
That means I have only lost money since March 15.

These are the type of false statements without up-to-date screenshots / timestamped that I do not have time to provide all day long when someone decides to shoot off their mouth here with false statements.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hTHTV0X/April2019-Equity.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8PMyZ6bY/April2019-Monthly-Gains.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on April 17, 2019, 04:23:46 PM

I just don't understand the reasoning behind asking posters if they can get better results than a vendor.
When I go to a grocery store and look at all the different loaves of bread available I have to make a choice. That choice is made from possible past experience with that item, input from other people I know, or research. Or it may just look ugly and I say no.

Never am I asked if I can bake a better loaf when I don't like a particular one!Cheers,
Rod
You assume everyone here taking shots at me and my trading are here with honest and directed intentions of searching for a signal to subscribe to.
These and many others are not showing that they are truly willing to debate fairly and completely.

I don't assume that all posters here are searching for a signal to sub to. Several are here to share their knowledge, experience and insights on what makes a good signal, or what things to be concerned about. That is the main purpose of a Forum: to share knowledge. I don't believe the Forum exists just for vendors to advertise. In fact it's a real privilege that is given to vendors to post here. It should not be abused.

You may not like some of the information that is shared but all posters have the right to give their opinions as long as it is done in a decent manner.

Cheers,
Rod


I have asked for "civility", yet the aggressive tone persists. Please, gentlemen, state your point of view as newboater, points out, in a constructive manner, so we can all become better traders or be able to seek out those premium traders in the marketplace, that suite our investment needs: It would be helpful if you know of such "premium traders" out there, to invite them here to be examined by those of us who are knowledgeable and qualified analysts and can audit/scrutinize their claims in a factual manner.

 I keep on getting complaints about behavior to which I might have to suspend this thread for a time until cool heads prevail.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 04:37:29 PM
@humbletrader

Music to my ears.
dancing for my soul.
bucks on my mind.
I am ready for "old boys club" hearty debate without the 21st century debased degradation in discussion amongst elevated souls.
Thanks!

Oh by the way, for everyone else, I am smokin hot on recovery from DD in low risk and medium risk, and I have two new High Risk strategies being cooked in the oven (the oven has now been fixed by a good friend from Italy).  Thanks all for making me indestructible.
And I mean it.  Every unkind word, every partially true criticism, every blatant lie.... it propels me closer to greatness.  Closer to my long term goal of "exponential growth" of my equity and Assets Under Management.

Will reveal these new strategies, one ultra low Drawdown, one maximal Gain to Pain factor...... in May coming up.
I keep pumpin.  I keep jumpin.  I lay low in Naples.  And now put my feet up in Hong Kong.  Next week I roast in Tuguegarao.

How d'ya like them apples, boys?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 17, 2019, 06:01:15 PM

I just don't understand the reasoning behind asking posters if they can get better results than a vendor.
When I go to a grocery store and look at all the different loaves of bread available I have to make a choice. That choice is made from possible past experience with that item, input from other people I know, or research. Or it may just look ugly and I say no.

Never am I asked if I can bake a better loaf when I don't like a particular one!Cheers,
Rod
You assume everyone here taking shots at me and my trading are here with honest and directed intentions of searching for a signal to subscribe to.
These and many others are not showing that they are truly willing to debate fairly and completely.

I don't assume that all posters here are searching for a signal to sub to. Several are here to share their knowledge, experience and insights on what makes a good signal, or what things to be concerned about. That is the main purpose of a Forum: to share knowledge. I don't believe the Forum exists just for vendors to advertise. In fact it's a real privilege that is given to vendors to post here. It should not be abused.

You may not like some of the information that is shared but all posters have the right to give their opinions as long as it is done in a decent manner.

Cheers,
Rod


I have asked for "civility", yet the aggressive tone persists. Please, gentlemen, state your point of view as newboater, points out, in a constructive manner, so we can all become better traders or be able to seek out those premium traders in the marketplace, that suite our investment needs: It would be helpful if you know of such "premium traders" out there, to invite them here to be examined by those of us who are knowledgeable and qualified analysts and can audit/scrutinize their claims in a factual manner.

 I keep on getting complaints about behavior to which I might have to suspend this thread for a time until cool heads prevail.


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Thank god for some good sense
Highlighting the key phrase that people should consider providing before they dish out anymore negative feedbacks without properly understanding what OTB is trying to do.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 06:39:29 PM
I admit, I don't have as much time as you do to devote to activities that are not directly immediately related to making profits for myself and clients.
So I will be brief.
Open DD is currently 25% ..... you are wrong.  Get your facts straight. 
Hot links with current stats: 
https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899
 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899)
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347
 (http://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-mt-cook-master/2206347)
Booked profit over last 6 weeks ...... 13.4% plus 7.4% in April so far.
And February was a 7.5% profit month.


Saying that I haven't made new equity highs since October 2018 is false.
The equity amount has been at equity highs after March 14 onwards.
That means I have only lost money since March 15.

These are the type of false statements without up-to-date screenshots / timestamped that I do not have time to provide all day long when someone decides to shoot off their mouth here with false statements.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hTHTV0X/April2019-Equity.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8PMyZ6bY/April2019-Monthly-Gains.jpg)


At the time of my writing your DD was 32 or 33%. Just moments after (or during) posting my comment, your DD decreased. I was not wrong at all. And at this point the DD is back to 28-29%. We can play this game all day....  ::)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 17, 2019, 06:47:18 PM
@humbletrader

Music to my ears.
dancing for my soul.
bucks on my mind.
I am ready for "old boys club" hearty debate without the 21st century debased degradation in discussion amongst elevated souls.
Thanks!

Oh by the way, for everyone else, I am smokin hot on recovery from DD in low risk and medium risk, and I have two new High Risk strategies being cooked in the oven (the oven has now been fixed by a good friend from Italy).  Thanks all for making me indestructible.
And I mean it.  Every unkind word, every partially true criticism, every blatant lie.... it propels me closer to greatness.  Closer to my long term goal of "exponential growth" of my equity and Assets Under Management.

Will reveal these new strategies, one ultra low Drawdown, one maximal Gain to Pain factor...... in May coming up.
I keep pumpin.  I keep jumpin.  I lay low in Naples.  And now put my feet up in Hong Kong.  Next week I roast in Tuguegarao.

How d'ya like them apples, boys?

Talking about arrogance and blowing your own horn hahaha. Thats exactly why you keep getting crap from people, its posts like this one combined with shitty performance. You are really something else and it shows in your trading.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on April 17, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
it propels me closer to greatness.  Closer to my long term goal of "exponential growth" of my equity and Assets Under Management.

I find it very inconsiderate for a vendor to brag about how rich he is getting. This is especially true when there are blown accounts and people struggling to get similar results to his.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 07:12:14 PM
If you need to have a good cry, go ahead ok, it helps to cleanse the system and get back on track for another lunge at the greatness in each one of us.  The worst thing you can do is try to avoid the failure that is necessary to teach us and to make us stronger.  You all treat failure as something that is career-ending or a nail in your coffin.  I look at it merely as one more step up to success.

I have enough compassion to keep working really hard to teach you how to replicate the profits on all my master accounts if you choose to stay with trade copying subscription instead of the much easier fund investment, which copies trades proportionally in block trades and captures the exact same return as I get on the master.
I have achieved what I have as a result of obsessive research and execution, determination, nonstop maintenance of the health of my self confidence and working attitude, and giving the best part of my energies to those tasks that generate the most profits for my bottom line.  Trade Copiers do not generate nearly as much fees, and they have not shared nearly enough of their profits for me to place them as a higher priority than my fund clients, private clients, and brokerage/corporate clients.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 17, 2019, 11:31:24 PM
To become a good follower/investor is a hard and mostly long work.

The same as crafting a good trade plan and executing day in and day out methodically with unbreakable patience.

If you think you are the "shining hope" to get rich quick with $1000 invested in Forex, there will soon be No way to recover from an exceptional loss. Remember, every signal provider has developed his own set of rules or guidelines. And he enters the market gingerly and prudently with a relatively small size to preserve precious capital and to compound it when times are easy and highly predictable.

Sometimes (just like in life) you have to face exceptional events. That means, you need to take exceptional decisions. These unique decisions fall outside your normal set of behaviour or your normal rule set, but you save your life or the life of somebody else.

Life is irrational and rules are rational. Mostly rules give a certain guarantee to survive, statistically spoken. But if you are stubborn, in certain moments you will run against the wall and lose all. So trade with rules, be flexible in rare moments, but don't invest all your capital. You will need it right when the markets are easy and highly predictable.  Above all else study risk management, and learn how to administrate your capital. If you don't study obsessively first, let it be. Only risk the percentage of capital that is proportional to how much you have studied and experimented in this market.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 19, 2019, 10:02:02 AM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on April 19, 2019, 03:19:45 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 19, 2019, 03:41:09 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon


You better hope so because there is no other plan. Holding and hoping that it will reverse, thats what all professional fund managers do. It would probably be best to load up on Dow some more  ::) ::)

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 19, 2019, 03:44:18 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon


You better hope so because there is no other plan. Holding and hoping that it will reverse, thats what all professional fund managers do. It would probably be best to load up on Dow some more  ::) ::)

Are you serious?!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 19, 2019, 04:10:22 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon

The biggest issue is theres lots of red flags that the us equities is overstretched...

But for the first time me being in finance. Im struggling to find a catalyst for US equities weakness... maybe poor q1 earnings?
Volatility spike?

I do think North Korea could also be a wild card as kim jong un on the news again with bomb threats.... hes clearly not too happy with how the US and north korea summit gone down in vietnam
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: reinerh on April 19, 2019, 05:48:27 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon

The biggest issue is theres lots of red flags that the us equities is overstretched...

But for the first time me being in finance. Im struggling to find a catalyst for US equities weakness... maybe poor q1 earnings?
Volatility spike?

I do think North Korea could also be a wild card as kim jong un on the news again with bomb threats.... hes clearly not too happy with how the US and north korea summit gone down in vietnam

manufacturing in usa is on fire, totally the opposite what you hear in the media. i have contacts in industry all over and they cant make the parts fast enough. overtime and more machines on order to fill the huge amount of order backlog they have, this is what i hear straight from the horses mouth.

but real estate i think is slowing finally.

it would not surprise me if the dow takes out the top, but a correction has to come at some point.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 20, 2019, 05:24:40 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon


You better hope so because there is no other plan. Holding and hoping that it will reverse, thats what all professional fund managers do. It would probably be best to load up on Dow some more  ::) ::)

Are you serious?!

I guess you didnt get the joke haha
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 22, 2019, 12:13:21 AM
Please don't put any more DJ30 trades on.

They're gobbling up my margin (Retail Client) and, despite reduced multiple X on Simple trader, the minimum order placement is 1 lot.

I'm a relative long termer, but need my available fund wriggle room fund availability to survive.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on April 22, 2019, 04:44:36 PM
Please don't put any more DJ30 trades on.

They're gobbling up my margin (Retail Client) and, despite reduced multiple X on Simple trader, the minimum order placement is 1 lot.

I'm a relative long termer, but need my available fund wriggle room fund availability to survive.

Thanks!

1 lot for sclaping is good but for lonterm shot better large balance
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nick3232 on April 22, 2019, 04:50:19 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon

The biggest issue is theres lots of red flags that the us equities is overstretched...

But for the first time me being in finance. Im struggling to find a catalyst for US equities weakness... maybe poor q1 earnings?
Volatility spike?

I do think North Korea could also be a wild card as kim jong un on the news again with bomb threats.... hes clearly not too happy with how the US and north korea summit gone down in vietnam

manufacturing in usa is on fire, totally the opposite what you hear in the media. i have contacts in industry all over and they cant make the parts fast enough. overtime and more machines on order to fill the huge amount of order backlog they have, this is what i hear straight from the horses mouth.

but real estate i think is slowing finally.

it would not surprise me if the dow takes out the top, but a correction has to come at some point.

it will correct (reverse) soon .just normal cycling don't necessary need a trigger ,will happen always will

100 % retracement stock is ready to reverse  too

https://charts.mql5.com/21/32/us30-d1-international-capital-markets.png

would not be too worry as long  as you get sufficiant margin
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 22, 2019, 07:47:48 PM
The Dow is not something i’ve seen you trade before so i dont know what sort of track record you have with the Dow...

Pray its not something thats going to end up disastrous

don't worry ,it is going to reverse soon

The biggest issue is theres lots of red flags that the us equities is overstretched...

But for the first time me being in finance. Im struggling to find a catalyst for US equities weakness... maybe poor q1 earnings?
Volatility spike?

I do think North Korea could also be a wild card as kim jong un on the news again with bomb threats.... hes clearly not too happy with how the US and north korea summit gone down in vietnam

manufacturing in usa is on fire, totally the opposite what you hear in the media. i have contacts in industry all over and they cant make the parts fast enough. overtime and more machines on order to fill the huge amount of order backlog they have, this is what i hear straight from the horses mouth.

but real estate i think is slowing finally.

it would not surprise me if the dow takes out the top, but a correction has to come at some point.

it will correct (reverse) soon .just normal cycling don't necessary need a trigger ,will happen always will

100 % retracement stock is ready to reverse  too

https://charts.mql5.com/21/32/us30-d1-international-capital-markets.png

would not be too worry as long  as you get sufficiant margin

Nick, I am afraid that's not how trading work. If there is no timing mechanism to your trade entries then you are simply gambling.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 23, 2019, 07:43:37 AM
Do you know why myfxbook reference account is not updating from 22 hours? Is it a way to manipulate how myfxbook calculate drawdown?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 23, 2019, 07:56:10 AM
Do you know why myfxbook reference account is not updating from 22 hours? Is it a way to manipulate how myfxbook calculate drawdown?

Yep, myfxbook equity drawdown can be calculated by either keeping it connected or at the close of the daily candle.

So this trader is hoping that things will turn around at the end of the day and record less drawdown.

So in short, yes he is manipulating the myfxbook and manipulating everyone as he has always been  with his hold and pray trading style.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 23, 2019, 09:48:52 AM
Or he has been trading from his tablet and phone, which do not have the Myfxbook Publisher EA affixed to the MT4 terminal so it is not possible to update them until I get to a terminal.
My Hosted MT4 terminal for this account does not run the update EA as I have chosen to handle this manually.
Manipulation of this data is not something I choose to do. It is not reliable anyway.
I must sheepishly admit, you guys are choosing to be paranoid about what I am doing to "trick" people. This is not a priority of mine. There are many ways to prove this if you knew how everything works together, but one way to know is that I would do this trick with my high risk accounts too, but I have not done this.
Secondly, our drawdown has actually lessened over the last 30 hours and we have recorded more closed profits.
So why am I hiding money gained??
I have to laugh.
Please be patient, as I grind booked profits and diminish drawdown.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 23, 2019, 04:46:20 PM
Or he has been trading from his tablet and phone, which do not have the Myfxbook Publisher EA affixed to the MT4 terminal so it is not possible to update them until I get to a terminal.
My Hosted MT4 terminal for this account does not run the update EA as I have chosen to handle this manually.
Manipulation of this data is not something I choose to do. It is not reliable anyway.
I must sheepishly admit, you guys are choosing to be paranoid about what I am doing to "trick" people. This is not a priority of mine. There are many ways to prove this if you knew how everything works together, but one way to know is that I would do this trick with my high risk accounts too, but I have not done this.
Secondly, our drawdown has actually lessened over the last 30 hours and we have recorded more closed profits.
So why am I hiding money gained??
I have to laugh.
Please be patient, as I grind booked profits and diminish drawdown.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Lets not count our eggs until we’re out of the water mate...
DOW is not showing any signs of weakness, earnings is pushing dow very close to a new record high mate....

Strangely... dd on the dow is growing faster than you could grind profits

Not asking you to share your strategy. But could you atleast tell us what is leading you to such strong conviction on the dow shorts??

Cant you just admit you screwed up with the dow shorts??

Some people are now at 45-50% dd mate
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Phynicle on April 23, 2019, 10:51:40 PM
1000 points off on breakeven on the dow, the revenue reporting is stronger than expected and with the next round of good news from the stock markets (end of trade tariffs with china?) I'll be on margin call,
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 24, 2019, 12:12:10 AM
Both of you have copied a different RISK than I have done with the master account.
therefore you must be vigilant of your own drawdown and margin available in these circumstances.
Technically speaking, we have been at major resistance, and I am able to churn with scalps until we determine if strong levels hold.  regardless, I hope you can learn to think long term and see booked profits over the past 2 months (imagine if there weren't a drawdown, this is how long it would take to recover from drawdown, and look at all the other space of profit without significant drawdown over the past 15 months.)
This pain shall pass, so I hope you are around for the next leg up.
Equity levels are on par with early January levels.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 24, 2019, 06:17:13 AM
Both of you have copied a different RISK than I have done with the master account.
therefore you must be vigilant of your own drawdown and margin available in these circumstances.
Technically speaking, we have been at major resistance, and I am able to churn with scalps until we determine if strong levels hold.  regardless, I hope you can learn to think long term and see booked profits over the past 2 months (imagine if there weren't a drawdown, this is how long it would take to recover from drawdown, and look at all the other space of profit without significant drawdown over the past 15 months.)
This pain shall pass, so I hope you are around for the next leg up.
Equity levels are on par with early January levels.

Thx for reassuring us. Thats all we need, keep grinding the scalps, we could deffo use more of those
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 24, 2019, 07:38:31 AM
You will be richly rewarded for your patience and trust.
How hard is it to speak with harsh / negative words?  very easy.
How hard is it to do what I do?  very very hard.
Most of you will never know to what great lengths I have gone to be here with the skill and knowledge that I do have.
In the meantime, sending Filipino sun, smiles, and laughter your way.
Watch me work.  Watch the great God give me his grace to overcome the pitfalls that beset the majority.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 24, 2019, 08:12:16 AM
What skill and knowledge are you talking about?!! You have blown up accounts in the past months and there is no skill or knowledge required to trade the way you do. Which is 100% hold and pray!

If the market breaks further north, you will be completely screwed. All the track record that you keep bragging about will be completely worthless finally!
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 24, 2019, 08:52:42 AM
You will be richly rewarded for your patience and trust.
How hard is it to speak with harsh / negative words?  very easy.
How hard is it to do what I do?  very very hard.
Most of you will never know to what great lengths I have gone to be here with the skill and knowledge that I do have.
In the meantime, sending Filipino sun, smiles, and laughter your way.
Watch me work.  Watch the great God give me his grace to overcome the pitfalls that beset the majority.

Btw i met with jake the other day. Brilliant dude. Glad you also had time to meetup with him while hes in HK
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: gpfwestie on April 24, 2019, 03:39:55 PM
Why isn't the MyFxBook updater running on the VPS ?

The maximum drawdown will not be correct unless you leave it connected 24/5
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: SJWkiller on April 24, 2019, 03:47:58 PM
Why isn't the MyFxBook updater running on the VPS ?

The maximum drawdown will not be correct unless you leave it connected 24/5

You answered your own question right there ;)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 24, 2019, 04:37:12 PM
The current drawdown is alarming if you've just signed on within the last few months. Over the long-term, though, it's not so bad. I'm not going to defend everything OTB says and does, but I do think it's funny that the torches always come out when there's a drawdown. Maybe adjustments of risk are in order for some of you.

Also, I would like to once again state that this is the ONLY signal I have with this kind of performance LONG TERM. I see many people lining up to criticize this provider, and I would like to ONCE AGAIN request that they provide me with the details of a better performing signal. You can PM me or whatever.

I am not interested in hypotheticals or hindsight or what a trader could or couldn't have done looking backwards. ALL I care about is profit. Bottom line. And as you can see, OTB has provided a lot of that for me with manageable drawdown over the last year. If he is a terrible trader as some of you are claiming, then please do not be so selfish and horde your secret signals or providers that are making you secret piles of cash. Share these if you have them! It must not be too hard since OTB is apparently setting such a low bar for performance. I have to reiterate that this is not an empty request from me. I have been asking for the past year for ANY of these detractors to provide me with a single signal that outperforms this one. I'll throw cash at it if it exists.

I truly am just here to make money, not lord my superior (but purely hypothetical and based on hindsight) knowledge over another. It is so confusing to me why there is such hate for this signal provider, but not a single person can show me one they follow or provide themselves that is better. If it exists, put it out there! Aren't we all just here for profit after all?

I understand the need for criticism, but if you provide no way forward from here, what then? Should I just withdraw all my funds from OTB and just sit here and whine because all systems are imperfect? I seriously have no idea what's the point here. I MUST be missing some obvious money-printing signals with so much superior knowledge and criticism being thrown around here. If that's the case, share them. If not, oh well. I'll just take my family on another vacation later this summer from my OTB profits.

(https://i.imgur.com/O8wFHxZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 24, 2019, 05:51:44 PM
Why isn't the MyFxBook updater running on the VPS ?

The maximum drawdown will not be correct unless you leave it connected 24/5

I have outsourced this role, and this person who runs it for me doesn't have enough space for multiple EA's attached to the multiple MT4 terminals he runs on his VPS for me.  Keeping the CPU speed and Memory allocated only to the most important tasks for best execution and up-time without crashes.
He recommended I run these types of updating EA's locally on my terminal.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 24, 2019, 06:29:50 PM
Or he has been trading from his tablet and phone, which do not have the Myfxbook Publisher EA affixed to the MT4 terminal so it is not possible to update them until I get to a terminal.
My Hosted MT4 terminal for this account does not run the update EA as I have chosen to handle this manually.
Manipulation of this data is not something I choose to do. It is not reliable anyway.
I must sheepishly admit, you guys are choosing to be paranoid about what I am doing to "trick" people. This is not a priority of mine. There are many ways to prove this if you knew how everything works together, but one way to know is that I would do this trick with my high risk accounts too, but I have not done this.
Secondly, our drawdown has actually lessened over the last 30 hours and we have recorded more closed profits.
So why am I hiding money gained??
I have to laugh.
Please be patient, as I grind booked profits and diminish drawdown.

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Looks like everyday you will come up with a different excuse. first was because you use your tablet and dont login through you PC, and now you are saying you have outsourced it to someone else VPS.

This is getting ridiculous. The Dow will blow you up, hopefully it will put an end to all this none sense soon.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 25, 2019, 07:45:26 AM
Hi,

A good comment from 5ninefish in his recent post - I agree with all he says - enough said.

For Greg - I have noticed that the USDJPY positions demand a large Swap (fee) - the lates USDJPY open position for me has a swap fee of -26.47 which seems very high relative the order size and the open duration so far. A big profit is required on this to cover these fees and at least break even. Is this just me (my broker fees) or is this pair an expensive one to trade (from a swap fee perspective)?

2019/04/24 07:08:46   111.822000   0.07   Sell   USDJPY   -6.17   -9.2   7407652  -  Swap so far for me is -26.47 on this.

In relation to the 3 open Dow positions, I noticed on my account that the lot size is displayed as "US30, sell 1.00". As shown, it appears that the lot size is 1 on my account regardless of the trades displayed (size 0.10) on SimpleTrader (below):-

2019/03/29 17:26:26   25868.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -688.65   158680000   7318325
2019/03/28 16:54:05   25655.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -901.65   156550000   7315814
2019/03/28 16:12:55   25607.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -949.65   156070000   7315677

If this is the case, for my trades, there appears to be a heavy weighting on these DOWUSD orders, so if they go against me, the drawdowns increase rapidly.
Would this lot size weighting indicate that these DOW order sizes are out of proportion to other currency pairs being traded?

Finally, and I do understand that you have studied and refined your strategy over the years, but do you ever consider using trailing stops, especially when orders are in profit - therefore letting the profits run?

Cheers,

Cormac


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 25, 2019, 08:08:24 AM

Looks like everyday you will come up with a different excuse. first was because you use your tablet and dont login through you PC, and now you are saying you have outsourced it to someone else VPS.
This is getting ridiculous. The Dow will blow you up, hopefully it will put an end to all this none sense soon.

Both are true.  I have spoken truthfully and openly, yet you are stubbornly ungrateful and spiteful.
Your comments are rude and damaging to this forum and to everyone else.  Success and happiness will prove to be frustratingly elusive with this attitude and mindset.  I will steer well clear of it.  And since you obviously feel the same with my offerings, pls do us all a favor and move along.
Looks like we've hit our top on Dow.
Use your time doing something more productive. 
This is what my clients and prospective new clients want so pls show some respect.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 25, 2019, 08:13:01 AM
Hi,

A good comment from 5ninefish in his recent post - I agree with all he says - enough said.

For Greg - I have noticed that the USDJPY positions demand a large Swap (fee) - the lates USDJPY open position for me has a swap fee of -26.47 which seems very high relative the order size and the open duration so far. A big profit is required on this to cover these fees and at least break even. Is this just me (my broker fees) or is this pair an expensive one to trade (from a swap fee perspective)?

2019/04/24 07:08:46   111.822000   0.07   Sell   USDJPY   -6.17   -9.2   7407652  -  Swap so far for me is -26.47 on this.

In relation to the 3 open Dow positions, I noticed on my account that the lot size is displayed as "US30, sell 1.00". As shown, it appears that the lot size is 1 on my account regardless of the trades displayed (size 0.10) on SimpleTrader (below):-

2019/03/29 17:26:26   25868.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -688.65   158680000   7318325
2019/03/28 16:54:05   25655.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -901.65   156550000   7315814
2019/03/28 16:12:55   25607.000000   0.10   Sell   DOWUSD   -949.65   156070000   7315677

If this is the case, for my trades, there appears to be a heavy weighting on these DOWUSD orders, so if they go against me, the drawdowns increase rapidly.
Would this lot size weighting indicate that these DOW order sizes are out of proportion to other currency pairs being traded?

Finally, and I do understand that you have studied and refined your strategy over the years, but do you ever consider using trailing stops, especially when orders are in profit - therefore letting the profits run?

Cheers,

Cormac

You sure its not because yesterday was wednesday? You do know wednesdays carry is a triple roll... meaning rollover carry costs is 3x to factor in saturday and sunday because spot fx is t+2

Also maybe because Japan is about to go on a long break.... so carry is factoring the days japan is off....

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=602379
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 25, 2019, 08:18:14 AM
Hi,

A good comment from 5ninefish in his recent post - I agree with all he says - enough said.

For Greg - I have noticed that the USDJPY positions demand a large Swap (fee)

In relation to the 3 open Dow positions, I noticed on my account that the lot size is displayed as "US30, sell 1.00". As shown, it appears that the lot size is 1 on my account regardless of the trades displayed (size 0.10) on SimpleTrader (below):-

Would this lot size weighting indicate that these DOW order sizes are out of proportion to other currency pairs being traded?
Finally, and I do understand that you have studied and refined your strategy over the years, but do you ever consider using trailing stops, especially when orders are in profit - therefore letting the profits run?

Cheers,

Cormac

@cormac

USDJPY - just this next week is going to have abnormally large swap rates, only this week, due to 27 April to 5 May Golden Week in Japan and their holiday of inactivity, thus moving forward interest charges on positions.  We shall make up for this negative swap.

DOW - some brokers only allow minimum 1 lot trades on Dow.  Therefore, yes, you're risk is greatly increased, so I would turn the Dow symbol off on SimpleTrader copier.

trailing stops - I have a lot of backseat drivers.  ho hum.  yes of course I have considered this.  maybe you'd like to run the backtests that would be necessary to ascertain which trades turn out to be the winners in this strategy and then how all the profits and losses pan out and most importantly the hit rate when you use this way of trading.  I believe mine is superior, but of course there are always ways to optimise a strategy.  good study to do.  let me know what you find if anything (or better yet - keep it a secret and run your own strategy which would be better than mine.) The key is knowing ahead of time which trades are the ones which will extend and which ones to cut with shorter profit.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: frescof on April 25, 2019, 08:50:48 AM
Thanks for you prompt reply.

As this is new territory for me, I will take your advice on board.

One comment though, I understand that you are getting alot of slack at moment, but my query around trailing stops is not a dig at you and your approach. Therefore, please respect my genuine queries and reply with the same respect that I try and give you.

Best,
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 25, 2019, 11:44:16 AM
Soon the nay sayers will be silenced
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: Nasdaq100 on April 25, 2019, 01:50:34 PM
Soon the nay sayers will be silenced

As soon as your account blows up   :P
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 25, 2019, 02:14:36 PM
Because if he makes profit suddenly exceeding agreed risk is OK? Everything he ever said about risk and then disrespected will for some strange reason become irrelevant? Your brain works in very mysterious ways...
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 25, 2019, 02:45:23 PM
Because if he makes profit suddenly exceeding agreed risk is OK? Everything he ever said about risk and then disrespected will for some strange reason become irrelevant? Your brain works in very mysterious ways...

Well... hes making me money. And to make money there is going to be risk.

If u want to limit risk ur better off not trading so u dont need to expose to any risk
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 25, 2019, 04:00:44 PM
Meanwhile.
The churn will burn.
Stay alive long enough for the big days to manifest.
Next 8 days will be quite interesting indeed. Stay tuned.
Oh by the way, drawdown was cut by 40% in a 24 hr period. See how this strategy recovers relatively quickly?
On the more invigorating side of life as a trader, JPY crosses on high alert. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190425/40e4cb319d120dbe16d01ec60ad7c530.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G6100 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: primi on April 25, 2019, 04:25:21 PM
Because if he makes profit suddenly exceeding agreed risk is OK? Everything he ever said about risk and then disrespected will for some strange reason become irrelevant? Your brain works in very mysterious ways...

Well... hes making me money. And to make money there is going to be risk.

If u want to limit risk ur better off not trading so u dont need to expose to any risk

You have absolutely no idea or do not want to understand what I'm talking about hence your contribution to this discussion is worth nothing. I'm not going to say much more because this is not my fight anymore. Unless you want to rub me the wrong way.

GENTLEMEN! Please, wind it down.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: fxtyrant on April 25, 2019, 04:48:37 PM
Because if he makes profit suddenly exceeding agreed risk is OK? Everything he ever said about risk and then disrespected will for some strange reason become irrelevant? Your brain works in very mysterious ways...

Well... hes making me money. And to make money there is going to be risk.

If u want to limit risk ur better off not trading so u dont need to expose to any risk

You have absolutely no idea or do not want to understand what I'm talking about hence your contribution to this discussion is worth nothing. I'm not going to say much more because this is not my fight anymore. Unless you want to rub me the wrong way.

Like you said... not ur fight, so keep your comments to urself if you cant really add any value.



GENTLEMEN! Please, wind it down.

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 25, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
Risk is part of the game but undefined risk is gambling. When you can’t stick to your rules by calling them soft rules then I don’t know what is the boundaries here.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 25, 2019, 09:32:23 PM
There are a myriad of signals/systems/EAs out there. Why don't you guys just go find another one. This one is apparently not right for most of you who are checking it out. I, for one, have made a lot of profit out of it long-term. I, for one, DO NOT want him to change a single thing. I have PRIVATELY communicated with the provider in the past and had my issues addressed in a satisfactory manner.

It should be painfully obvious to all of you by now that OTB/Greg will not be changing the way he operates. Why should he, when none of you can provide any decent alternatives? At this point, it seems like most of you just want him to go away. Fine.

WHY NOT OFFER SOME ALTERNATIVES. There must be golden geese providing all kinds of profit for you if this provider is so terrible. DM me in private if you don't want to spam this thread. None of you have come forward yet.

I can't stand coming in here anymore. It's just tear down, criticize, and pick apart piece-by-piece each other's posts. Do none of you truly have any original ideas for moving forward? What's your end goal? Make OTB shut down operations? Then what? You're going to provide something better?
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: alaali on April 25, 2019, 09:42:01 PM
Why we write? Because this is not only for positive reviews.

Who want to invest using this signal should know that there are only soft rules.

I don’t care about the money you made. I just want new investors know what they are subscribing to.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on April 25, 2019, 09:47:09 PM
There is time under the sun for everything.
Ecclesiastes 3: 1-8


Quote
There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:

2     a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3     a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
4     a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5     a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6     a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7     a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8     a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899
 (https://www.signalstart.com/analysis/outside-box/27899) -- UP TO DATE PROFITS AND DRAWDOWN total until I am able to update the MyFXBook Publisher EA on my terminal in the next 3 days sometime.

Other forum posts
https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund (https://www.forexsignals.com/forum/forum/signals-from-forexsignals-simpletrader/signals-from-simpletrader-network/95764-outside-the-box-signal-and-mt-cook-pamm-fund)
https://community.darwinex.com/u/OutsideTheBoxHK/activity (https://community.darwinex.com/u/OutsideTheBoxHK/activity)
https://forum.zulutrade.com/u/OutsidetheBoxHK/activity (https://forum.zulutrade.com/u/OutsidetheBoxHK/activity)

I encourage all involved in any of my affairs (hint hint nudge nudge) to review all my posts in every forum before drawing conclusions about my trading skill, profitability, communications, character, professionalism, and/or my gymnastic flexibility.
I have searched the high heavens and probed the depths of the deepest nadir for activities in this life worth pursuing, in addition to people worth spending time with. 
I will not be going anywhere.  I will be trading, doing forex related businesses, learning about self growth and development, and adding entrepreneurial endeavours to my task list for the next 10 years or so.
As I have taken time to relate in previous posts here, at Darwinex community, at ForexSignals Forum, and at Zulu community, it is the psychological aspect that most needs to be mastered here and in anything worth pursuing in life.
Don't allow yourself to become a slave to the toxic or the shackles.
The second image below is how I view much of the unproductive comments that only lead to more and more losses.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NMDDJd3D/58374404-2411577239062504-5222875575638556672-o.jpg)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/1n3Icv3iptOCmN7uYh/giphy.gif)


Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 25, 2019, 10:27:45 PM
Why we write? Because this is not only for positive reviews.

Who want to invest using this signal should know that there are only soft rules.

I don’t care about the money you made. I just want new investors know what they are subscribing to.

Fair enough. I'm not really here for positive reviews either. Like I said, I'm here purely for profit wherever it may be. I may be way off on that compared to your goals. This is no hobby or passion for me; it's just another tool in the bag. Zero emotions, just P&L.

I don't care about opinions that are explicated ad nauseam. I do happen to care about the money I made. You should, too. If one person somehow made it work through a mixture of risk management and broker choice, somebody else should be able to as well. I guess that's where we differ. It worked for me, and I will share that. I am assuming that it didn't work for you. But neither one of our outcomes is the entire story.

Somehow I sense far deeper personal agendas from many here that transcend mere "looking out for new investors." But I digress.

I truly don't care what feelings or agendas are at work here. I make solid, consistent profit; and I don't like the trader's psyche being messed with when I have money on the line. That, I take personally. His system doesn't work for you and maybe most "newcomers" here. Fine. Why not civilly post public issues and take deeper stuff in PM directly with the provider. He will reply to you. I get the feeling many want him to change his style or just go away altogether. I'm saying pump the brakes. Maybe you should just try something else, because this has been working incredibly well for me.

Bottom line, I feel like there are some of you that have decided there is absolutely zero chance of success with this signal. And if so, that's wrong. I'm not normally one for making absolute judgments on another's opinions, but there you go. That's why I posted my profits. Maybe this is the ugliest, most flawed system in Babylon, but it's profitable.
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: nwboater on April 25, 2019, 10:56:51 PM
Why we write? Because this is not only for positive reviews.

Who want to invest using this signal should know that there are only soft rules.

I don’t care about the money you made. I just want new investors know what they are subscribing to.

Fair enough. I'm not really here for positive reviews either. Like I said, I'm here purely for profit wherever it may be. I may be way off on that compared to your goals. This is no hobby or passion for me; it's just another tool in the bag. Zero emotions, just P&L.

I don't care about opinions that are explicated ad nauseam. I do happen to care about the money I made. You should, too. If one person somehow made it work through a mixture of risk management and broker choice, somebody else should be able to as well. I guess that's where we differ. It worked for me, and I will share that. I am assuming that it didn't work for you. But neither one of our outcomes is the entire story.

Somehow I sense far deeper personal agendas from many here that transcend mere "looking out for new investors." But I digress.

I truly don't care what feelings or agendas are at work here. I make solid, consistent profit; and I don't like the trader's psyche being messed with when I have money on the line. That, I take personally. His system doesn't work for you and maybe most "newcomers" here. Fine. Why not civilly post public issues and take deeper stuff in PM directly with the provider. He will reply to you. I get the feeling many want him to change his style or just go away altogether. I'm saying pump the brakes. Maybe you should just try something else, because this has been working incredibly well for me.

Bottom line, I feel like there are some of you that have decided there is absolutely zero chance of success with this signal. And if so, that's wrong. I'm not normally one for making absolute judgments on another's opinions, but there you go. That's why I posted my profits. Maybe this is the ugliest, most flawed system in Babylon, but it's profitable.

Hi 5ninefish,

I can understand that you don't want your trader to be "Messed with". And I can certainly understand how lots of negative comments could affect him.

The dilemma is that if people cannot state their opinions and concerns about a trader then this is not really a Forum - it's just an advertising space for the vendor. I think that is the last thing that anyone here wants!

I have seen this difficulty in other Forums and in some cases the vendor stayed away just ignoring all the flack. That may be the best solution here. If Greg ignores the Forum then his Psyche wont be messed with and everyone can state their honest opinions about the service.

He claims that he is very communicative in ways other than Forums so his customers and those interested can still discuss things with him.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Outsidethebox HK Signals & PAMM funds
Post by: 5ninefish on April 25, 2019, 11:30:31 PM
Why we write? Because this is not only for positive reviews.

Who want to invest using this signal should know that there are only soft rules.

I don’t care about the money you made. I just want new investors know what they are subscribing to.

Fair enough. I'm not really here for positive reviews either. Like I said, I'm here purely for profit wherever it may be. I may be way off on that compared to your goals. This is no hobby or passion for me; it's just another tool in the bag. Zero emotions, just P&L.

I don't care about opinions that are explicated ad nauseam. I do happen to care about the money I made. You should, too. If one person somehow made it work through a mixture of risk management and broker choice, somebody else should be able to as well. I guess that's where we differ. It worked for me, and I will share that. I am assuming that it didn't work for you. But neither one of our outcomes is the entire story.

Somehow I sense far deeper personal agendas from many here that transcend mere "looking out for new investors." But I digress.

I truly don't care what feelings or agendas are at work here. I make solid, consistent profit; and I don't like the trader's psyche being messed with when I have money on the line. That, I take personally. His system doesn't work for you and maybe most "newcomers" here. Fine. Why not civilly post public issues and take deeper stuff in PM directly with the provider. He will reply to you. I get the feeling many want him to change his style or just go away altogether. I'm saying pump the brakes. Maybe you should just try something else, because this has been working incredibly well for me.

Bottom line, I feel like there are some of you that have decided there is absolutely zero chance of success with this signal. And if so, that's wrong. I'm not normally one for making absolute judgments on another's opinions, but there you go. That's why I posted my profits. Maybe this is the ugliest, most flawed system in Babylon, but it's profitable.

Hi 5ninefish,

I can understand that you don't want your trader to be "Messed with". And I can certainly understand how lots of negative comments could affect him.

The dilemma is that if people cannot state their opinions and concerns about a trader then this is not really a Forum - it's just an advertising space for the vendor. I think that is th