Donna Forex Forum

Systems (EA's and manual), and Managed Accounts => Managed Accounts & Signal Services => Topic started by: nwboater on July 15, 2018, 11:41:15 PM

Title: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 15, 2018, 11:41:15 PM
The broker Darwinex has had a very poor following here. This is at least partially due to a somewhat confusing  website along with some terminology that probably seems odd to many of us - it does to me anyway. There have been some recent posts in another forum about them however that have sparked my interest.

Besides being a trading broker they have a very unique system of investing with some excellent traders at only a 20% performance fee. It's kind of a cross between a signal and a managed account. I will attempt to explain it and would appreciate being corrected if I have misstated how they operate.

You open an account with them and your funds go into their 'Wallet'. With the Wallet you can invest in any (or many) Darwins (their traders) with a $200 (of your base currency) minimum per Darwin. They have many very good traders and have some interesting ways of quantifying how good the traders are. This can help greatly in selecting Darwins.

Until today I had forgotten a post anglebird made here about Darwinex in March in the Forex Trend Detector thread. I asked him something about them and he replied (italics and Bold by me):

"Hi rod, I'm sorry I can't start to make a thread here about Darwinex and Darwin because I think it's not effective (not many people here using darwinex). If you wanna discuss about darwin and darwin investing you can go to darwinex community, here's the link: https://community.darwinex.com/

My strategy is very simple, I just pick 10 best darwin (Diversification purpose) with low divergent and good profit from 20 TOP Darwin and invest equal amount of money to each darwin, the last step to do is let it run for a year whatever happened (you can call it "Set and Forget"). With this approach in 2 years I made 110% profit with DD only 6%."


Investing in 10 quality traders would require a minimum account size of $2,000 (in your base currency) That would be 10 Darwins (traders) at $200 each = $2,000. This is tremendous diversification at a very low entry price! Some of you may think 55%/ year is not a good profit, but I have come to believe it is very good, especially with only 6% DD and the diversification of 10 good traders. I could even sleep better! :)

If anyone here has experience investing in Darwins I would sure appreciate their sharing information about it. Also anyone's thoughts on the above approach would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on July 16, 2018, 12:59:18 AM
The broker Darwinex has had a very poor following here. This is at least partially due to a somewhat confusing  website along with some terminology that probably seems odd to many of us - it does to me anyway. There have been some recent posts in another forum about them however that have sparked my interest.

Besides being a trading broker they have a very unique system of investing with some excellent traders at only a 20% performance fee. It's kind of a cross between a signal and a managed account. I will attempt to explain it and would appreciate being corrected if I have misstated how they operate.

You open an account with them and your funds go into their 'Wallet'. With the Wallet you can invest in any (or many) Darwins (their traders) with a $200 (of your base currency) minimum per Darwin. They have many very good traders and have some interesting ways of quantifying how good the traders are. This can help greatly in selecting Darwins.

Until today I had forgotten a post anglebird made here about Darwinex in March in the Forex Trend Detector thread. I asked him something about them and he replied (italics and Bold by me):

"Hi rod, I'm sorry I can't start to make a thread here about Darwinex and Darwin because I think it's not effective (not many people here using darwinex). If you wanna discuss about darwin and darwin investing you can go to darwinex community, here's the link: https://community.darwinex.com/

My strategy is very simple, I just pick 10 best darwin (Diversification purpose) with low divergent and good profit from 20 TOP Darwin and invest equal amount of money to each darwin, the last step to do is let it run for a year whatever happened (you can call it "Set and Forget"). With this approach in 2 years I made 110% profit with DD only 6%."


Investing in 10 quality traders would require a minimum account size of $2,000 (in your base currency) That would be 10 Darwins (traders) at $200 each = $2,000. This is tremendous diversification at a very low entry price! Some of you may think 55%/ year is not a good profit, but I have come to believe it is very good, especially with only 6% DD and the diversification of 10 good traders. I could even sleep better! :)

If anyone here has experience investing in Darwins I would sure appreciate their sharing information about it. Also anyone's thoughts on the above approach would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I have been using Darwinex since IC MArkets decided that Canadians were no longer allowed to Broker with them. I second what angelbird has posted and you give a good summary of their services. I would like to ask angelbird what Darwinex filters he uses to determine the top ten traders.

From what I have been able to determine based on the amount of capital that is being invested in Darwinex, I would estimate, it is one of the fastest growing entities out there.


Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 16, 2018, 02:09:59 AM
Hi Humble Trader,

Thanks for the reply. Do you invest in any 'Darwins' or do you just use them as a traditional trading broker?

One of my concerns with Darwinex is the imposition of major leverage reductions by ESMA starting next month. For most of us using EA's the greatly reduced leverage would probably negate their profitable use.

Darwinex has said though that this should have negligible affect on their Darwins (traders) as many of them use very low leverage. I think this remains to be seen and I fear that some will have to alter their strategies. If so judging who to chose based on past history may become a problem.

Cheers,
Rod


I agree, that is why, for now, I am holding off making any substantial investment in either vihicle ( live trading or investing on other successful traders), until after August, where the new restrictions come into effect.
In a way,  I look forward to the new regulation because I think, it will separate, " the men from the boys".

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: primi on July 16, 2018, 08:02:00 AM
What kind of an investment is this then? I suppose you don't get an account that you can see and also see the trades taken by different traders? I'm asking because it makes a huge difference when my profits are taxed. Trading spot FX is taxed completely differently to other instruments for me and I don't think this would pass as trading spot FX.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on July 16, 2018, 03:55:53 PM
Hi Humble Trader,

Thanks for the reply. Do you invest in any 'Darwins' or do you just use them as a traditional trading broker?

One of my concerns with Darwinex is the imposition of major leverage reductions by ESMA starting next month. For most of us using EA's the greatly reduced leverage would probably negate their profitable use.

Darwinex has said though that this should have negligible affect on their Darwins (traders) as many of them use very low leverage. I think this remains to be seen and I fear that some will have to alter their strategies. If so judging who to chose based on past history may become a problem.

Cheers,
Rod


I agree, that is why, for now, I am holding off making any substantial investment in either vihicle ( live trading or investing on other successful traders), until after August, where the new restrictions come into effect.
In a way,  I look forward to the new regulation because I think, it will separate, " the men from the boys".

Regards,
HumbleTrader

One feature of Darwinex which should be mentioned is, "Capacity Managment": What this means in a practical term is when a trader has a certain Highmark volume of followers, Darwin moves in to limit the number of new subscribers. There is much more to this for me to explain here, that is why anyone interested in this Broker, should do some reading from the excellent educational material they provide.

https://blog.darwinex.com/capacity-manager-investor-capital/

Regards,
HumbleTrader
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on July 17, 2018, 01:39:14 PM
The broker Darwinex has had a very poor following here. This is at least partially due to a somewhat confusing  website along with some terminology that probably seems odd to many of us - it does to me anyway. There have been some recent posts in another forum about them however that have sparked my interest.

Besides being a trading broker they have a very unique system of investing with some excellent traders at only a 20% performance fee. It's kind of a cross between a signal and a managed account. I will attempt to explain it and would appreciate being corrected if I have misstated how they operate.

You open an account with them and your funds go into their 'Wallet'. With the Wallet you can invest in any (or many) Darwins (their traders) with a $200 (of your base currency) minimum per Darwin. They have many very good traders and have some interesting ways of quantifying how good the traders are. This can help greatly in selecting Darwins.

Until today I had forgotten a post anglebird made here about Darwinex in March in the Forex Trend Detector thread. I asked him something about them and he replied (italics and Bold by me):

"Hi rod, I'm sorry I can't start to make a thread here about Darwinex and Darwin because I think it's not effective (not many people here using darwinex). If you wanna discuss about darwin and darwin investing you can go to darwinex community, here's the link: https://community.darwinex.com/

My strategy is very simple, I just pick 10 best darwin (Diversification purpose) with low divergent and good profit from 20 TOP Darwin and invest equal amount of money to each darwin, the last step to do is let it run for a year whatever happened (you can call it "Set and Forget"). With this approach in 2 years I made 110% profit with DD only 6%."


Investing in 10 quality traders would require a minimum account size of $2,000 (in your base currency) That would be 10 Darwins (traders) at $200 each = $2,000. This is tremendous diversification at a very low entry price! Some of you may think 55%/ year is not a good profit, but I have come to believe it is very good, especially with only 6% DD and the diversification of 10 good traders. I could even sleep better! :)

If anyone here has experience investing in Darwins I would sure appreciate their sharing information about it. Also anyone's thoughts on the above approach would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I have been using Darwinex since IC MArkets decided that Canadians were no longer allowed to Broker with them. I second what angelbird has posted and you give a good summary of their services. I would like to ask angelbird what Darwinex filters he uses to determine the top ten traders.

From what I have been able to determine based on the amount of capital that is being invested in Darwinex, I would estimate, it is one of the fastest growing entities out there.


Regards,
HumbleTrader


I agree with all that has been said here.  I'm surprised more attention has not been given to Darwinex in the trade copying / PAMM fund space.  From what I have read and seen so far the whole concept really addresses the risk of investing in unknown signal providers and their database seems to have attracted some great talent.

Charlie, Satang, and I have placed our strategies at Darwinex recently, and we are by no means in the top 20 yet, but have a look at our new DARWIN's and at the blog articles I had posted at ForexSignals Forum below and the info my account manager gave to me, as it speaks to ESMA and the associated leverage restrictions beginning 1 Aug.

FX4Charlie DARWIN:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FOK.4.1 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FOK.4.1)
Outside the Box DARWIN:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
SatangFX:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/KMQ.4.21/ (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/KMQ.4.21/)
----------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding ESMA and Darwinex
How they propose to "skirt" the margin/leverage restrictions with their investors/DARWIN's.....I was asking how this might affect the returns on strategies listed on their DARWIN database.
I heard back from Darwinex this morning and here's how they responded:

"we have run some stats on our traders and found that most of our best traders do not run a leverage over 25 on their trading operations (although every trader is different of course)

Darwinex will accomplish targeted 10% VaR via our Asset Manager Firm- investorīs capital will be replicating strategy under this 10% VaR - Our Asset Manager is the one adjusting VaR and adding or reducing leverage to investorīs capital following the traders. There is no limitations for our Asset Manager Firm.
Those are our comments to ESMA:

https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-product-intervention/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-product-intervention/)
https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-leverage-impact-traders-investors-darwins/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-leverage-impact-traders-investors-darwins/)
https://blog.darwinex.com/implementation-of-esma-leverage-calendar-and-practical-example/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/implementation-of-esma-leverage-calendar-and-practical-example/)
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: anglebird on July 18, 2018, 08:21:58 AM
The broker Darwinex has had a very poor following here. This is at least partially due to a somewhat confusing  website along with some terminology that probably seems odd to many of us - it does to me anyway. There have been some recent posts in another forum about them however that have sparked my interest.

Besides being a trading broker they have a very unique system of investing with some excellent traders at only a 20% performance fee. It's kind of a cross between a signal and a managed account. I will attempt to explain it and would appreciate being corrected if I have misstated how they operate.

You open an account with them and your funds go into their 'Wallet'. With the Wallet you can invest in any (or many) Darwins (their traders) with a $200 (of your base currency) minimum per Darwin. They have many very good traders and have some interesting ways of quantifying how good the traders are. This can help greatly in selecting Darwins.

Until today I had forgotten a post anglebird made here about Darwinex in March in the Forex Trend Detector thread. I asked him something about them and he replied (italics and Bold by me):

"Hi rod, I'm sorry I can't start to make a thread here about Darwinex and Darwin because I think it's not effective (not many people here using darwinex). If you wanna discuss about darwin and darwin investing you can go to darwinex community, here's the link: https://community.darwinex.com/

My strategy is very simple, I just pick 10 best darwin (Diversification purpose) with low divergent and good profit from 20 TOP Darwin and invest equal amount of money to each darwin, the last step to do is let it run for a year whatever happened (you can call it "Set and Forget"). With this approach in 2 years I made 110% profit with DD only 6%."


Investing in 10 quality traders would require a minimum account size of $2,000 (in your base currency) That would be 10 Darwins (traders) at $200 each = $2,000. This is tremendous diversification at a very low entry price! Some of you may think 55%/ year is not a good profit, but I have come to believe it is very good, especially with only 6% DD and the diversification of 10 good traders. I could even sleep better! :)

If anyone here has experience investing in Darwins I would sure appreciate their sharing information about it. Also anyone's thoughts on the above approach would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod

Hey Rod,

I'm glad you finally making a new thread about Darwinex, well done..:D First of all, I wanna say that you and anybody don't need to doubt about this broker, darwinex is one of the best out there. Second, Stop wasting your money to purchase an EA just for your own use, you know an EA will not working for long term. Try to give it a shot for making a darwin for it and make a lot of money from getting an investor at Darwinex, so when the EA not working at least you already make a good income. Third, Challenge an EA developer to make a darwin,  if they ignore it so be aware that they only purpose is only making money from selling the EA and not making money from trading it, some of EA developer making a darwin and they already in Top 20 most investor. Try to save your money (stop buy an EA and invest in darwin), you can choose any strategy you want for free and start invest on that broker, make sense now guys?

For your question Rod, you know my strategy right? just pick 10 best darwin with low divergence and good profit form Most Investor Category only (you only focus to look for this category) after that let it run whatever happen at least for a year. :) 
This is my recommendation for you guys, this darwins list is proven has good reputation and long term steady profit:
LVS
THA
VTJ
QUA
NTR
STV
FEG
JMC
ATL
ERQ
NTI

You can check them here: https://www.darwinex.com/filter/TOP_INVESTORS
Hopefully my idea here could help you in the future, thanks a lot guys..:)

Cheers,
anglebird
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: anglebird on July 18, 2018, 08:27:38 AM

I agree with all that has been said here.  I'm surprised more attention has not been given to Darwinex in the trade copying / PAMM fund space.  From what I have read and seen so far the whole concept really addresses the risk of investing in unknown signal providers and their database seems to have attracted some great talent.

Charlie, Satang, and I have placed our strategies at Darwinex recently, and we are by no means in the top 20 yet, but have a look at our new DARWIN's and at the blog articles I had posted at ForexSignals Forum below and the info my account manager gave to me, as it speaks to ESMA and the associated leverage restrictions beginning 1 Aug.

FX4Charlie DARWIN:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FOK.4.1 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FOK.4.1)
Outside the Box DARWIN:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)
SatangFX:  ??
----------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding ESMA and Darwinex
How they propose to "skirt" the margin/leverage restrictions with their investors/DARWIN's.....I was asking how this might affect the returns on strategies listed on their DARWIN database.
I heard back from Darwinex this morning and here's how they responded:

"we have run some stats on our traders and found that most of our best traders do not run a leverage over 25 on their trading operations (although every trader is different of course)

Darwinex will accomplish targeted 10% VaR via our Asset Manager Firm- investorīs capital will be replicating strategy under this 10% VaR - Our Asset Manager is the one adjusting VaR and adding or reducing leverage to investorīs capital following the traders. There is no limitations for our Asset Manager Firm.
Those are our comments to ESMA:

https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-product-intervention/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-product-intervention/)
https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-leverage-impact-traders-investors-darwins/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/esma-leverage-impact-traders-investors-darwins/)
https://blog.darwinex.com/implementation-of-esma-leverage-calendar-and-practical-example/ (https://blog.darwinex.com/implementation-of-esma-leverage-calendar-and-practical-example/)

Nice Darwin Bro, keep it up to the TOP.. ;D
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: reinerh on July 18, 2018, 02:51:04 PM

darwins are the cats meow.

the most transparent i have come across. most importantly their stats are dead on, even better then myfxbook and soooooooooo simple to read.

and there is some serious talent to be found.............

anybody who made it to the top with a darwin is a great trader in my book. thales and titan are by far my personal heroes.

i have an account up there as well but still a long way to go to make it to the top.

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 18, 2018, 09:49:00 PM
What kind of an investment is this then? I suppose you don't get an account that you can see and also see the trades taken by different traders? I'm asking because it makes a huge difference when my profits are taxed. Trading spot FX is taxed completely differently to other instruments for me and I don't think this would pass as trading spot FX.

Hi Primi,

I can't answer your question but suggest you email info@darwinex.com  I have emailed them a few times with questions and used their chat line. In all cases they were responsive and helpful.

My guess is they are aware that what they are offering is very different (to me in a good way) and to be successful they need to be quite helpful.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 19, 2018, 05:04:18 AM
The broker Darwinex has had a very poor following here. This is at least partially due to a somewhat confusing  website along with some terminology that probably seems odd to many of us - it does to me anyway. There have been some recent posts in another forum about them however that have sparked my interest.

Besides being a trading broker they have a very unique system of investing with some excellent traders at only a 20% performance fee. It's kind of a cross between a signal and a managed account. I will attempt to explain it and would appreciate being corrected if I have misstated how they operate.

You open an account with them and your funds go into their 'Wallet'. With the Wallet you can invest in any (or many) Darwins (their traders) with a $200 (of your base currency) minimum per Darwin. They have many very good traders and have some interesting ways of quantifying how good the traders are. This can help greatly in selecting Darwins.

Until today I had forgotten a post anglebird made here about Darwinex in March in the Forex Trend Detector thread. I asked him something about them and he replied (italics and Bold by me):

"Hi rod, I'm sorry I can't start to make a thread here about Darwinex and Darwin because I think it's not effective (not many people here using darwinex). If you wanna discuss about darwin and darwin investing you can go to darwinex community, here's the link: https://community.darwinex.com/

My strategy is very simple, I just pick 10 best darwin (Diversification purpose) with low divergent and good profit from 20 TOP Darwin and invest equal amount of money to each darwin, the last step to do is let it run for a year whatever happened (you can call it "Set and Forget"). With this approach in 2 years I made 110% profit with DD only 6%."


Investing in 10 quality traders would require a minimum account size of $2,000 (in your base currency) That would be 10 Darwins (traders) at $200 each = $2,000. This is tremendous diversification at a very low entry price! Some of you may think 55%/ year is not a good profit, but I have come to believe it is very good, especially with only 6% DD and the diversification of 10 good traders. I could even sleep better! :)

If anyone here has experience investing in Darwins I would sure appreciate their sharing information about it. Also anyone's thoughts on the above approach would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod

Hey Rod,

I'm glad you finally making a new thread about Darwinex, well done..:D First of all, I wanna say that you and anybody don't need to doubt about this broker, darwinex is one of the best out there. Second, Stop wasting your money to purchase an EA just for your own use, you know an EA will not working for long term. Try to give it a shot for making a darwin for it and make a lot of money from getting an investor at Darwinex, so when the EA not working at least you already make a good income. Third, Challenge an EA developer to make a darwin,  if they ignore it so be aware that they only purpose is only making money from selling the EA and not making money from trading it, some of EA developer making a darwin and they already in Top 20 most investor. Try to save your money (stop buy an EA and invest in darwin), you can choose any strategy you want for free and start invest on that broker, make sense now guys?

For your question Rod, you know my strategy right? just pick 10 best darwin with low divergence and good profit form Most Investor Category only (you only focus to look for this category) after that let it run whatever happen at least for a year. :) 
This is my recommendation for you guys, this darwins list is proven has good reputation and long term steady profit:
LVS
THA
VTJ
QUA
NTR
STV
FEG
JMC
ATL
ERQ
NTI

You can check them here: https://www.darwinex.com/filter/TOP_INVESTORS
Hopefully my idea here could help you in the future, thanks a lot guys..:)

Cheers,
anglebird

Hi Anglebird,

Thanks very much for your post and especially for the list. I have setup a demo account at Darwinex for this. Two of them JMC & ATL were flagged for high divergence of a little over -3%.

I need to study just what divergence means and how we utilize it so I'm not really clear the significance. Does this mean we should remove those two from the list? If so we will need one more to add since you gave us eleven.

In looking through the Community (Forum) at Darwinex I see there are various portfolios discussed. Might this be one of them? If so what is the name?

Thanks again for some very enlightening information that may send me, and others, on a very different path! :)

Cheers,
Rod

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: primi on July 19, 2018, 07:41:07 AM
What kind of an investment is this then? I suppose you don't get an account that you can see and also see the trades taken by different traders? I'm asking because it makes a huge difference when my profits are taxed. Trading spot FX is taxed completely differently to other instruments for me and I don't think this would pass as trading spot FX.

Hi Primi,

I can't answer your question but suggest you email info@darwinex.com  I have emailed them a few times with questions and used their chat line. In all cases they were responsive and helpful.

My guess is they are aware that what they are offering is very different (to me in a good way) and to be successful they need to be quite helpful.

Cheers,
Rod

Thanks Rod, will do that. My problem with trading anything other than spot FX is I have to pay 40% tax and that's a whole lot more than what I pay now. Which is zero.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: anglebird on July 19, 2018, 04:49:38 PM

Hi Anglebird,

Thanks very much for your post and especially for the list. I have setup a demo account at Darwinex for this. Two of them JMC & ATL were flagged for high divergence of a little over -3%.

I need to study just what divergence means and how we utilize it so I'm not really clear the significance. Does this mean we should remove those two from the list? If so we will need one more to add since you gave us eleven.

In looking through the Community (Forum) at Darwinex I see there are various portfolios discussed. Might this be one of them? If so what is the name?

Thanks again for some very enlightening information that may send me, and others, on a very different path! :)

Cheers,
Rod

Cheers,
Rod

Hey Rod,

Divergence is the difference between your investment result and the darwin result. You can check in in every darwin just click the darwin and look for Investors tab (which is on the same line with investable attributes) click it, after that scroll down and you will see the chart with title (Divergence in %) thats data is telling us the past performance of how much profit we made in % after we invest in this darwin since the beginning. Very negative divergence is bad, I admit.. BUT if the darwin consistently profitable, you will always make money even the divergence is bad. That's why ATL and JMC still has $200K investors money because it still making money.

Yes the Community is very active especially "CavaliereVerde" this guy is super active in the group.. hehe..
But not all darwin provider are active and want to share much about him/her and the strategy behind it. I don't care anyway, because if he or she can manage such huge investors money and still profitable for years, it means this trader is not an amateur. For JMC and ATL this is the thread for it https://community.darwinex.com/t/atl-and-jmc-titaneur/3468

I tell you guys why I switched to a different path, I personally have more than 7 years of experience in trading but all I did is buy an EA use it and than it failed. Go to forums, go to forex review and find a new EA buy it, use it, and then failed again, and search for new one again and again. I did it for almost 7 years and what I got..? Nothing!!! I don't even know what forex market is, how it works, why today Pound so strong, Why today DAX flying high, why today Gold in a range, I don't KNOW!!! All I know is Best Scalper is a great scalper, Wallstreet EA is short term EA, FXautomater is good company, thats all!!!

So I admite ONE THING that buy an EA and use it to make money does not make you a TRADER, you are not a TRADER but you are an INVESTOR.. You invest on Best Scalper for example, buy it and run it on your account expecting it could make you a lot of money, this behaviour is not the behaviour of Trader, it is the behaviour of investor, you invest on Best Scalper. So why not to learn to be the real investor? Now I learn how to trade manually, learn about divergence, cycle and convergence, preparing my self to be real trader, knowing how the market really works. After that, try to make a profitable Darwin and have a good income from it, also being a profitable investor..

Trust me guys, if you serious to forex business just Stop buy an EA (it's waste your time and effort). Start to learn how to trade manually, learning how the market really works, be a true Forex Trader or learn to be a Professional Investor. :)

Best Regards,
anglebird
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 26, 2018, 02:32:10 AM

Hi Anglebird,

Thanks very much for your post and especially for the list. I have setup a demo account at Darwinex for this. Two of them JMC & ATL were flagged for high divergence of a little over -3%.

I need to study just what divergence means and how we utilize it so I'm not really clear the significance. Does this mean we should remove those two from the list? If so we will need one more to add since you gave us eleven.

In looking through the Community (Forum) at Darwinex I see there are various portfolios discussed. Might this be one of them? If so what is the name?

Thanks again for some very enlightening information that may send me, and others, on a very different path! :)

Cheers,
Rod

Cheers,
Rod

Hey Rod,

Divergence is the difference between your investment result and the darwin result. You can check in in every darwin just click the darwin and look for Investors tab (which is on the same line with investable attributes) click it, after that scroll down and you will see the chart with title (Divergence in %) thats data is telling us the past performance of how much profit we made in % after we invest in this darwin since the beginning. Very negative divergence is bad, I admit.. BUT if the darwin consistently profitable, you will always make money even the divergence is bad. That's why ATL and JMC still has $200K investors money because it still making money.

Yes the Community is very active especially "CavaliereVerde" this guy is super active in the group.. hehe..
But not all darwin provider are active and want to share much about him/her and the strategy behind it. I don't care anyway, because if he or she can manage such huge investors money and still profitable for years, it means this trader is not an amateur. For JMC and ATL this is the thread for it https://community.darwinex.com/t/atl-and-jmc-titaneur/3468

I tell you guys why I switched to a different path, I personally have more than 7 years of experience in trading but all I did is buy an EA use it and than it failed. Go to forums, go to forex review and find a new EA buy it, use it, and then failed again, and search for new one again and again. I did it for almost 7 years and what I got..? Nothing!!! I don't even know what forex market is, how it works, why today Pound so strong, Why today DAX flying high, why today Gold in a range, I don't KNOW!!! All I know is Best Scalper is a great scalper, Wallstreet EA is short term EA, FXautomater is good company, thats all!!!

So I admite ONE THING that buy an EA and use it to make money does not make you a TRADER, you are not a TRADER but you are an INVESTOR.. You invest on Best Scalper for example, buy it and run it on your account expecting it could make you a lot of money, this behaviour is not the behaviour of Trader, it is the behaviour of investor, you invest on Best Scalper. So why not to learn to be the real investor? Now I learn how to trade manually, learn about divergence, cycle and convergence, preparing my self to be real trader, knowing how the market really works. After that, try to make a profitable Darwin and have a good income from it, also being a profitable investor..

Trust me guys, if you serious to forex business just Stop buy an EA (it's waste your time and effort). Start to learn how to trade manually, learning how the market really works, be a true Forex Trader or learn to be a Professional Investor. :)

Best Regards,
anglebird

Thanks for all the information you are sharing about Darwinex - really appreciate it!

I can certainly understand your past experiences and frustrations with EA's. I too have had similar on many EA's and Signals. It would be great if Darwinex can be the answer to these difficulties - it sure has been for you.

I also admire your goal of learning manual trading and earning from Investors. For me though I just know that manual trading would not work.  I'm not the right personality for it, nor do I have enough interest.

One of the big appeals to Darwinex is that we can follow many traders without having to pay individual signal fees. One would have to have a huge portfolio to justify paying the fees for 10 signals elsewhere!

I like your filtering approach to select the 10 'best' Darwins (traders), although your list contained 11. I made a table (attached) that shows the profits of these 11 for 2016, 2017 & 2018 YTD including trader averages and portfolio averages.

The summary of the average annual profits in percent is:
2016 46%
2017 31%
2018 YTD 13.5%
Annual average for the 2.6 years 32%.

It seems that for this portfolio at least profits are annually decreasing. It appears that it would be difficult to duplicate Anglebirds profits of 110% in 2 years. Anglebird, I'm wondering if you somehow used a risk multiplier at Darwinex?

From reading the Darwinex forum and Darwinex literature it seems that the high annual profits of 50-100% many of us retail traders expect is unrealistic. Several times I saw references of 20% annually as being reasonable.

Thanks again for your help with Darwinex.

Cheers,
Rod





Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 28, 2018, 10:57:53 AM
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 30, 2018, 01:16:12 AM
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: alaali on July 31, 2018, 05:05:41 PM
I liked the idea, I tried to open an account but for some reason my country is not listed. When I talked to them they said they cannot accept customers from my country because of legal reasons!

I don't know about any legal reasons from my country but it look like an error on their website. My country is selected in Nationality dropdown list but not in residency/address dropdown list.

Anyway the idea of this Broker is nice and the ability to select from different trades with a 20% fees is tempting.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on August 04, 2018, 11:21:23 AM
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod

My limited trading to date with Darwinex has included single Darwin investments only, with some very narrow near misses re. dodgy systems; which although providing great back tests collapsed within the first few months on Darwinex.  I liked THA before is hit a bad patch earlier this year; which shows even 'great' systems with years of history can be risky short term. DAQ is a great prospect but the divergence is growing with each new investment, and will make it untradable in a few months, which is, of course, the big limitation of Darwinex. LVS is one of the few longer term holds which isn't affected by the dreaded divergence, Overall I am not keen on portfolios, even though they clearly limit DD  - and prefer to back one or two obvious stand out performers.

Darwin selection was done by using various search criteria such as selecting 'all Darwins' then 'on fire' then lowest DD with the highest investment - you can drill down through each Darwin to check for grids and marti ( more than one trade open for each currency) using 'underlying strategy' and other things like divergence.. so although some systems may appear investable if they are trading 10 open pairs and always exposed to the market they are much more risky....

Individual Darwin selection can be subjective though, and the advantage of selecting top 5 or 10 based on investment is that money follows results, and you catch 'winning' systems which are at various stages of their win/loss cycles, thus hopefully smoothing the equity return curve. I would like to see Darwinex take more of a lead on this and give additional stats re performance drawdown and risk for various portfolio combinations such as found with Alpari PAMM's.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on August 22, 2018, 04:10:42 PM
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod

My limited trading to date with Darwinex has included single Darwin investments only, with some very narrow near misses re. dodgy systems; which although providing great back tests collapsed within the first few months on Darwinex.  I liked THA before is hit a bad patch earlier this year; which shows even 'great' systems with years of history can be risky short term. DAQ is a great prospect but the divergence is growing with each new investment, and will make it untradable in a few months, which is, of course, the big limitation of Darwinex. LVS is one of the few longer term holds which isn't affected by the dreaded divergence, Overall I am not keen on portfolios, even though they clearly limit DD  - and prefer to back one or two obvious stand out performers.

Darwin selection was done by using various search criteria such as selecting 'all Darwins' then 'on fire' then lowest DD with the highest investment - you can drill down through each Darwin to check for grids and marti ( more than one trade open for each currency) using 'underlying strategy' and other things like divergence.. so although some systems may appear investable if they are trading 10 open pairs and always exposed to the market they are much more risky....

Individual Darwin selection can be subjective though, and the advantage of selecting top 5 or 10 based on investment is that money follows results, and you catch 'winning' systems which are at various stages of their win/loss cycles, thus hopefully smoothing the equity return curve. I would like to see Darwinex take more of a lead on this and give additional stats re performance drawdown and risk for various portfolio combinations such as found with Alpari PAMM's.

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for explaining how you are investing at Darwinex and your further thoughts on this broker.

With almost 2,000 Darwins it can seem a daunting task to select the 'best ones'. As you pointed out there are many ways to select with their helpful filtering system.

It has been nice to find some of the traders whose Signals I once subbed to that stopped selling their signals. Thales and Titan are among those, and are some of the Top Darwins.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on August 22, 2018, 04:38:07 PM
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Humble Trader's Fx on September 15, 2018, 12:15:17 AM
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I know its a little early but can you give us a short update of your experience with Darwinex; or any other member who would like to share.

I am pleased with their broker service but have yet to get serious about investing a substantial sum on specific Darwins; what is your experience thus far and can you list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on September 15, 2018, 11:11:38 AM
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to Ģ10M investor funds this year alone....
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: anglebird on September 15, 2018, 12:18:00 PM
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to Ģ10M investor funds this year alone....

Hey Petersurrey,

I agree that SYO and SCS is so tempting, but be careful with some Darwin that not have bad period or drawdown period. Especially a fake migrated Darwin like SCS.. This is the page where the community talk about fake migrated account such as SCS: https://community.darwinex.com/t/unreal-fake-migrations-scs-gsx/4333

About SYO I can't see this darwin has healthy bad period, so I can assume this Darwin use averaging strategy without using stoploss because it can recover so fast from deep floating drawdown, and it's BAD. You can compare SYO with JZH, they are almost the same, don't have healthy drawdown and recover from it slowly and steady instead always recover very fast from it and when something bad happen everything only get worse, so becareful.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on September 15, 2018, 02:56:00 PM
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to Ģ10M investor funds this year alone....

Hey Petersurrey,

I agree that SYO and SCS is so tempting, but be careful with some Darwin that not have bad period or drawdown period. Especially a fake migrated Darwin like SCS.. This is the page where the community talk about fake migrated account such as SCS: https://community.darwinex.com/t/unreal-fake-migrations-scs-gsx/4333

About SYO I can't see this darwin has healthy bad period, so I can assume this Darwin use averaging strategy without using stoploss because it can recover so fast from deep floating drawdown, and it's BAD. You can compare SYO with JZH, they are almost the same, don't have healthy drawdown and recover from it slowly and steady instead always recover very fast from it and when something bad happen everything only get worse, so becareful.

Good spot! and explains why Darwinex haven't opened it up to investors, and yes I agree the one really annoying thing with this broker is that averaging down/grids/marti's can still hide, unless you really down through the master account trade history...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on September 15, 2018, 05:25:44 PM
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I know its a little early but can you give us a short update of your experience with Darwinex; or any other member who would like to share.

I am pleased with their broker service but have yet to get serious about investing a substantial sum on specific Darwins; what is your experience thus far and can you list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Hi HT,

My experience with Darwinex thus far has been excellent. I am only investing in their Darwins (traders) though, not using their brokerage services.

Compared to the other Forex Social sites such as ForexSignals, Signal Start, etc. they are in a league of their own! They are extremely professional and of course have a huge offering of Darwins. Their Community (Forum) is also on a very high level.

It has taken me a while to get familiar with some of their terminology and how thoroughly they present what they call "Investable Attributes". These are various scores that attempt to present a good picture of a Darwins history and risks.

I really appreciate their use of VaR to attempt to normalize the risks of all Darwins. Because of that we can compare Darwins on a fairly level playing field.

I have put a good deal of time into trying to understand all of this, a lot of which is new to me. I feel confident that it will be time well spent.

As far as "list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)" it is way too soon at only 3 weeks to be able to draw any conclusions. Even 3 months may not be enough. Mine is a long term portfolio consisting of 12 Darwins. I will say that I am only slightly positive. That may not sound like much but it is a lot better than my EA's have done over the same period. Using Cyborg, Wall Street EVO and Wall Street Trend I am down a fair bit in the last 3 weeks. Again though this is entirely too soon to draw any conclusions.

My portfolio consists of Darwins that were given in this thread by Anglebird (except GTD which I later added) and I again thank him. They are all in the Top 20 of Accounts Under Management (most funds). If anyone would like to analyze the individual Darwins at Darwinex here's the list:  LVS, THA, VTJ, QUA, NTR, STV, FEG, JMC, ATL, ERQ, NTI & GTD. Going to Explore and entering the individual Darwin you can get lots of data, including returns over various periods of time.

For those who would like to explore Portfolio building at Darwinex there is quite a bit of discussion at their Community. A recent thread lists several portfolios (not mine) and their results  https://community.darwinex.com/t/darwins-fund-darwins-managers-and-list-of-portfolios/4498.

After 2 months with my portfolio I will probably transfer more of my Forex funds to Darwinex for this portfolio. I presently have 25% of my funds there and will most likely increase that to 50%.

And finally my sleep has not been at all disturbed by activity in my Darwinex Portfolio like it sometimes is with my EA's. :)

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: F1Maniac on October 15, 2018, 01:26:56 AM
Hey all - i've reading this and coming up to speed with Darwinex and have a watched a few of their videos but something basic is still not very clear for me. very new to this darwinex concept so sorry if the below is silly.

I have a very basic question - we are buying and selling the traders strategy as a stock in a stock exchange, if so why are we still copying the underlying trade from the traders? I presume the buy and sell price of the traders strategy should take care of all that underlying trades profit or loss? no? If not am I exposed to trader twice? once in investing in their trading price on darwinex but also by executing their trades?

Also things like DD, stop loss - are they referring to the price on darwinex exhcange for the traders strategy or for the trades that are being copied. any help is appreciated. I've watched several videos but this is not explained clearly or I've completely missed it :(
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on October 15, 2018, 05:07:04 PM
Hey all - i've reading this and coming up to speed with Darwinex and have a watched a few of their videos but something basic is still not very clear for me. very new to this darwinex concept so sorry if the below is silly.

I have a very basic question - we are buying and selling the traders strategy as a stock in a stock exchange, if so why are we still copying the underlying trade from the traders? I presume the buy and sell price of the traders strategy should take care of all that underlying trades profit or loss? no? If not am I exposed to trader twice? once in investing in their trading price on darwinex but also by executing their trades?

Also things like DD, stop loss - are they referring to the price on darwinex exhcange for the traders strategy or for the trades that are being copied. any help is appreciated. I've watched several videos but this is not explained clearly or I've completely missed it :(

You have asked some excellent questions and I am not sure of the answers. I did some searching at Darwinex and came up with these:

http://help.darwinex.com/darwinex-for-investors/the-meaning-of-a-darwins-quote-or-list-price
http://help.darwinex.com/darwinex-for-investors/darwin-vs-strategy

If no one else gives a good answer here you may want to ask your questions in the Darwinex Community; they are deserving of answers.

Cheers,
Rod

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: jwatts7701 on October 15, 2018, 08:58:15 PM
newboater, investing in a portfolio of 12 forex traders is in my opinion a terrible decision. We all know the statistcis of forex.  The odds are high to very high that at least ONE (and probably more realistically) are going to heavily drawdown your portfolio and erase the other's gains and almost gaurantee that your portfolio either loses, or breaks even over time as a best case scenario.

If 90% of fx traders lose OVER TIME the odds that your 12 traders are top 10% are pretty rare. I could of course be proven wrong. But i would really try hard to widdle down your list to like 3-5 traders TOPS! 

I have done this in the past, with managers, signals, and EAs. The more you add, the more you almost gaurantee you will not experience any growth if you measure it over a good time period. This is just friendly advice, and again I would like to be proven wrong. Finding 12 forex traders that turn out to profitable overall, over time would be a miracle. 1 or 2 maybe.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on October 16, 2018, 10:37:00 PM
newboater, investing in a portfolio of 12 forex traders is in my opinion a terrible decision. We all know the statistcis of forex.  The odds are high to very high that at least ONE (and probably more realistically) are going to heavily drawdown your portfolio and erase the other's gains and almost gaurantee that your portfolio either loses, or breaks even over time as a best case scenario.

If 90% of fx traders lose OVER TIME the odds that your 12 traders are top 10% are pretty rare. I could of course be proven wrong. But i would really try hard to widdle down your list to like 3-5 traders TOPS! 

I have done this in the past, with managers, signals, and EAs. The more you add, the more you almost gaurantee you will not experience any growth if you measure it over a good time period. This is just friendly advice, and again I would like to be proven wrong. Finding 12 forex traders that turn out to profitable overall, over time would be a miracle. 1 or 2 maybe.

Hi jwatts7701,

Thanks very much for expressing your concern about the potential problems with my portfolio.

I have had some of the same concerns and that is why I started using only 25% of my Forex funds. But the longer I'm at Darwinex the better I feel about what I'm doing.

I spend a lot of time reading the forum posts in their Community and researching various Darwins and Portfolio approaches. Finding the gems from among almost 2,000 Darwins is no easy task. As with most social trading sites there is a lot of junk. But there are also some very professionally run and long term successful traders there. I believe those few are of a much higher caliber than are available at the other sites.

I certainly would not try to build a portfolio with 12 traders from any other site: It would probably be a recipe for disaster as you are concerned about.

History:
Loss Years: GTD 1 year small loss with history to 2013. NTI 1 year small loss with history to 2012. The other 10 show no loss years with most giving a good return.

Longevity: NTR & SYO have history only back to 2016. The other 10 mostly have much more.

So with most having long profitable multi year annual history it would seem that my odds of having a serious problem are very diminished. And Anglebird (who turned me on to this) has two years of history with mostly the same portfolio giving a total income of 110% and very low DD. Of course this is Forex so anything is possible! :)

Thanks again for your genuine concern.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: jwatts7701 on October 16, 2018, 10:46:19 PM
Thanks Rod. And yes, do please keep us posted. I will take a closer look as well. If that is case and that is top 12 out of 2000, thats a good stat. But still, even I feel that 12 is a miracle. But, that could also because I have been so jaded over the years of failed traders, signals, EAs etc... Like I said, i would LOVE to be wrong. It is hard to find even one profitable strategy with low drawdown that has more than 2 years. I am intrigued enough to take a good look at some of the systems there. Psyquation is another site i am looking at to. With similar features.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on October 16, 2018, 11:09:53 PM
Thanks Rod. And yes, do please keep us posted. I will take a closer look as well. If that is case and that is top 12 out of 2000, thats a good stat. But still, even I feel that 12 is a miracle. But, that could also because I have been so jaded over the years of failed traders, signals, EAs etc... Like I said, i would LOVE to be wrong. It is hard to find even one profitable strategy with low drawdown that has more than 2 years. I am intrigued enough to take a good look at some of the systems there. Psyquation is another site i am looking at to. With similar features.

I have had a similar history to yours with very few EA's or Signals being decent for any length of time. Actually the best profit I made was with Viper in his early years at Forex Signal. In retrospect I was very lucky with my timing because IMHO his strategy is a recipe for disaster!

If you want to check out Darwinex my portfolio (mostly Anglebirds) it is based on the Top 20 AUM. You can find them at Darwinex/Explore/Most Investors.

For anyone interested I will repost my porfolio: THA, SYO, ATL, GTD, JMC, LVS, NTR, FEG, QUA, ERQ, STV AND NTI. If you check these out you will find that most of them are not having as good a year as in the past. The way most everything else in Forex is behaving this year I'm not surprised.

My portfolio that I started Aug 22 is actually in DD now. Rather than being concerned I'm using it as a buying opportunity for these high quality Darwins and adding funds to the account. There are only two that I have some question on so I only added to the other 10.

I will be very interested in any comments on this portfolio if you get a chance to look at the individual Darwins. And of course comments from anyone else would also be appreciated.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on October 17, 2018, 12:45:50 AM
A small addendum to my last post. If you check out the Top 20 AUM they are the 20 Darwins that have the most investors. One might think that they are the Darwins that Darwinex thinks are the best, but that is not the case.

BTW Darwinex does not recommend any Darwins - they are up to us to select. But they do provide a tremendous amount of data on them, once you figure it out and what it all means. I'm still working on that! :)

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Westie on October 18, 2018, 12:38:17 PM
Quite a few Darwins I have / had are the same,

I still have ERQ, LVS, NTI, SYO
I dropped ATL, STV

I Also have CJN, CLA, MYQ, TMB

Everything is at 2xRisk

The only ones that have turned a profit thus far are

TMB (0.25%)
SYO (2.98%)
ERQ (3.54%)

The rest are at various levels of loss

LVS (-15.76%)
NTI (-8.18%)
CLA (-6.68%)
MYQ (-4.40%)
CJN (-1.50%)

Pretty awful numbers for a 2-3 month period, but we will see. I don't have a lot invested, just testing it out.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on October 19, 2018, 04:21:23 PM
Quite a few Darwins I have / had are the same,

I still have ERQ, LVS, NTI, SYO
I dropped ATL, STV

I Also have CJN, CLA, MYQ, TMB

Everything is at 2xRisk

The only ones that have turned a profit thus far are

TMB (0.25%)
SYO (2.98%)
ERQ (3.54%)

The rest are at various levels of loss

LVS (-15.76%)
NTI (-8.18%)
CLA (-6.68%)
MYQ (-4.40%)
CJN (-1.50%)

Pretty awful numbers for a 2-3 month period, but we will see. I don't have a lot invested, just testing it out.

Hi gpfwestie,

Thanks for posting here about your results. It looks like you and I both had bad luck on our timing! I'm in this for the long haul and know that in Forex bad periods happen.

I just glanced at the 4 Darwins you have that I don't. They all look solid with high DScores.

Hopefully you can hang in there for at least 6 months to give your portfolio a chance to recover.

Good luck,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Westie on October 20, 2018, 11:57:07 AM

Hi gpfwestie,

Thanks for posting here about your results. It looks like you and I both had bad luck on our timing! I'm in this for the long haul and know that in Forex bad periods happen.

I just glanced at the 4 Darwins you have that I don't. They all look solid with high DScores.

Hopefully you can hang in there for at least 6 months to give your portfolio a chance to recover.

Good luck,
Rod

Hi Rod,

Yes my plan is / was to keep the thing going for 12 months, I don't think 3 months is long enough to make a decision. At the current rate of loss though, the account may blow up before then.

I'm less than convinced that diversifying with multiple Darwins actually works. It seems to me that all of the high ranking Darwins are losing money in the last quarter. What that signifies to me, is they were making money (hence High D Score), and have all stopped making money at the same time.

I expect this is because previously the market movement was favourable to their strategy's, and now it isn't.

In which case, we haven't really diversified at all - we've just ended up with a basket of Darwins which trade the same market conditions.

Westie
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on October 20, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
Darwinex is good in that it tries to mitigate risk, however, some systems definitely perform better outside such as this one which is MQL5 and myfxbook with better results and one of the best-performing systems this year with very low DD and nice simple system. Darwinex although very good is definitely not necessarily the 'go to' site for all systems:

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/strive/2441822

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on October 21, 2018, 01:25:24 AM
Darwinex is good in that it tries to mitigate risk, however, some systems definitely perform better outside such as this one which is MQL5 and myfxbook with better results and one of the best-performing systems this year with very low DD and nice simple system. Darwinex although very good is definitely not necessarily the 'go to' site for all systems:

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/strive/2441822

Yes I have discussed this very issue with Ignacio and Iker at Darwinex.
My system also performed much better outside of Darwinex as a result of their Fund Manager software that re-allocates risk to "pin" it to 10% VaR at all times.

Compare my two equity curves:
https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437 (https://www.myfxbook.com/members/OutsideTheBoxHK/outside-box-master-account/2087437)
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4 (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4)

Anyway my DARWIN has D Score of 59.6, but has done better than most Top 10 DARWIN's that you are talking about, so who can really authoritatively put an appropriate score to a system or trader so that future results reflect whatever score they get? Every platform has a different way of assessing Investable Attributes and Trading Skills.

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on January 30, 2019, 04:56:21 AM
A couple of darwins I am keeping an eye on - over one years live trading with low ( at or around 10%) drawdown, few losing low DD months and steady regular even monthly return are HCP and VSA.

NO marti, grid or huge stops..
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Westie on January 30, 2019, 06:14:20 PM
I wonder if anyone that posted here is still invested in Darwins ?

I closed mine in early December (about a month short of 6 months) as the loss had got to 17% and didn't appear to be changing.

In fact it didn't change, as I left a demo account running with the same Darwins, and that's down 2.5% as well.

Anyone have better luck than me ?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on January 31, 2019, 12:08:41 AM
A couple of darwins I am keeping an eye on - over one years live trading with low ( at or around 10%) drawdown, few losing low DD months and steady regular even monthly return are HCP and VSA.

NO marti, grid or huge stops..

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the tip on those two Darwins. They look excellent except not real long history. I am going to add them to my watch list.

They also did well during last Fall when so many of the popular Darwins did not.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on January 31, 2019, 12:20:19 AM
I wonder if anyone that posted here is still invested in Darwins ?

I closed mine in early December (about a month short of 6 months) as the loss had got to 17% and didn't appear to be changing.

In fact it didn't change, as I left a demo account running with the same Darwins, and that's down 2.5% as well.

Anyone have better luck than me ?

Hi gpfwestie,

As you may recall last fall I opened a portfolio of 13 Darwins that had the highest investment. They all had outstanding history and good scores. This strategy for the previous two years had done very well. I guess I jinxed it (sometimes I'm amazed at my powers!) because very shortly most of them went south and many have continued going down although at a slower rate. ATM I am down almost 17%. I am running at double risk though so it's not as bad at it seems.

My plan is to hang in there with most of them as I still believe them to be solid strategies by good traders. It is however a big disappointment that so many went down at the same time which means I don't have a well balanced portfolio. There has been a lot of discussion about this at the Darwinex Community.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Phynicle on January 31, 2019, 06:07:30 AM
I'm in exactly the same boat, jumped on around august/September and then all the top darwin entered into draw down immediately like day two from my investment and has been a month on month loss ever since.
Should I rebalance what's left or wait it out on the hopes a quality darwin should over long term win out
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: outsidetheboxhk on January 31, 2019, 06:19:52 AM
I have posted frequently on the forum there.
Hope you guys consider my DARWIN:  https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4/ (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/BUX.4.4/)
Forum: https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56 (https://community.darwinex.com/t/bux-outside-the-box-ichimoku-scalping/4586/56)

3 consecutive Darwinia allocations, and very close this month to the 4th in a row.  Just dropped from #20 to #96 last night with screwy Fed FOMC mtg.
But you'll see that my DARWIN was strong last autumn, and has good D score, good consistency, 2 year track record, now at Darwinex for 7 months.  Starting to get some investor interest and DLabs investment finally.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on January 31, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
I have just invested in my first DARWIN.  I was originally invested with SCS but there seemed to be some debates on the Darwinex community forum to whether their track record was 100% authentic before they migrated to Darwinex.  I now look at the performance of a DARWIN/STRATEGY after it has migrated from its previous broker, over to the Darwinex platform to see if the performance is relatively consistent.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on January 31, 2019, 09:05:25 PM
I have just invested in my first DARWIN.  I was originally invested with SCS but there seemed to be some debates on the Darwinex community forum to whether their track record was 100% authentic before they migrated to Darwinex.  I now look at the performance of a DARWIN/STRATEGY after it has migrated from its previous broker, over to the Darwinex platform to see if the performance is relatively consistent.

Hi Pegasus FX,

Thanks for your post. I'm curious which Darwin you invested in?

Hope it goes very well for you! :)

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on January 31, 2019, 09:31:03 PM
Hi nwboater,

No worries at all.  I invested in the darwin VSA

Good performance, low drawdown on both the Darwin and underlying strategy. Plus they have not been migrated from another broker. Good potential in this one I feel.

Regards
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on February 25, 2019, 02:39:51 AM
Some nice darwins emerging - one ( zvq) with an incredible 8-year history although in my view performance should always be- judged from the system migration date - remember these are true results complying with latest euro margin trading rules.

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/HFD.4.17/
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/ZVQ.4.5/
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FSK.4.12/

I always take a look at the underlying strategy to see how they trade without the darwin filters - some may be just too risky...although the opposite is the case for zvq with just 2% DD in the master account.



Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: reinerh on February 25, 2019, 03:55:35 AM

the high five is very nicely traded.

using info from futures makes total sense to me.

and all have very low dd as well.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on February 28, 2019, 11:45:24 PM
Some nice darwins emerging - one ( zvq) with an incredible 8-year history although in my view performance should always be- judged from the system migration date - remember these are true results complying with latest euro margin trading rules.

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/HFD.4.17/
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/ZVQ.4.5/
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/FSK.4.12/

I always take a look at the underlying strategy to see how they trade without the darwin filters - some may be just too risky...although the opposite is the case for zvq with just 2% DD in the master account.


Thank you for this information Peter.  Checked out ZVQ.  Looks promising.  I agree with about analysing Darwins after migration dates.  Good advice
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on March 01, 2019, 02:52:58 AM
Darwinex has made considerable improvements to it's website this year, one of which allows you to set your own 'investible attributes' filter. These are unique to Darwinex and two are particularly important to avoid Marti Grids it appears - LA ( Loss Aversion) and RS ( Risk Stability). Any score lower than 4 means higher risk.

A low (<4) LA means the trader lets his losses run and RS measures how stable the system is and how likely it will stay within the 10% VAR (value at risk).

So going back to my last three 'promising' Darwins ( selected for best 3-month performance with high Darwin score) post only one Darwin meets the low LA / RS criteria - HFD - with good LA and RS scores as well as good overall performance and low divergence.

Darwinex is still far from perfect  - making some systems performance considerable worse than the unfiltered track record; but it does more than any other site to filter out rogue systems and provide a level playing field for potential investors..

This highlights how easy it is to hide dangerous trading practices and is still an industry-wide issue with most signal/managed signal providers still ignoring the issue by not using an outright ban.

To put this into perspective, out of the 200 Darwins originally listed only 2 remain active/profitable. They now have 2000+ which means you have a 1% chance of picking the right one - we therefore need all the ammunition we can get!!
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nc! on March 02, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
I am new to Darwinex have an account but still demo period slow learning curve..have some comments maybe it is supported and I have not seen it.

1) Is there a way to add comments to a Darwin so you can see them and not go through the research again, like comment(This trader is martingale or gid or fake stats broker history)

2) The same way you have favorites to have a black list or other lists of Darwins

If not all the above must be done externally any how it helps to see notes and avoid Darwins which you do not like.

Cheers nc!

 
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on March 02, 2019, 07:12:24 PM
I am new to Darwinex have an account but still demo period slow learning curve..have some comments maybe it is supported and I have not seen it.

1) Is there a way to add comments to a Darwin so you can see them and not go through the research again, like comment(This trader is martingale or gid or fake stats broker history)

2) The same way you have favorites to have a black list or other lists of Darwins

If not all the above must be done externally any how it helps to see notes and avoid Darwins which you do not like.

Cheers nc!

 

I don't know about adding comments but if you want a list of Darwins you don't like that could become huge! There are over 2,000 Darwins and probably most are not investable.

I can understand what you are looking to do though - not keep looking up the same ones over and over. You might consider adding this as a request at the Darwinex Community.

For keeping track of misc information I have found Microsoft OneNote to be very useful and it's now free with Win10. Over the last few years I've accumulated a lot of Forex info that I have well organized and is quickly retrievable. I use it for many other things besides Forex too.

Cheers,
Rod

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on March 02, 2019, 09:41:57 PM
I am new to Darwinex have an account but still demo period slow learning curve..have some comments maybe it is supported and I have not seen it.

1) Is there a way to add comments to a Darwin so you can see them and not go through the research again, like comment(This trader is martingale or gid or fake stats broker history)

2) The same way you have favorites to have a black list or other lists of Darwins

If not all the above must be done externally any how it helps to see notes and avoid Darwins which you do not like.

Cheers nc!

 


Hi NC.  I am sure there is not an option to research Darwins like you are asking.  What I would advise is to go to the Darwinex Community page and then select the 'Portfolio & DARWIN' section, You can search topics/thread on specific Darwins that maybe a Darwin provider has started or that other users are discussing.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on March 18, 2019, 10:32:30 AM
Potentially good future Darwin prospect here...excellent LA and RS values; but as it has only recently migrated onto their platform, would need to watch for a few more months..excellent R:R, and the trader obviously believes in his own system by forking up 10K USD of his own money and also like the fact that it is discretionary..

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/XEI.4.9/

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on March 26, 2019, 04:01:11 PM
Thank you petersurrey.  This DARWIN does look promising.  Will add to my favourites
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on May 17, 2019, 03:00:48 AM
This one shows promise - the steadiest monthly returns I have seen on Darwinex with low DD... worth watching!

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/ZPS.4.1/

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on May 17, 2019, 04:50:21 AM
This one shows promise - the steadiest monthly returns I have seen on Darwinex with low DD... worth watching!

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/ZPS.4.1/

Hi petersurrey,

Certainly does have promise if he maintains anything near what he's done so far. An interesting thing about it is he only has 4 1/2 months of history (showing) yet has 37 investors and $ 230,488.92 AUM. Looks like he has brought some followers!

Will be keeping an eye on this one!

Thanks,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on May 17, 2019, 05:49:48 AM
This one shows promise - the steadiest monthly returns I have seen on Darwinex with low DD... worth watching!

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/ZPS.4.1/

Hi petersurrey,

Certainly does have promise if he maintains anything near what he's done so far. An interesting thing about it is he only has 4 1/2 months of history (showing) yet has 37 investors and $ 230,488.92 AUM. Looks like he has brought some followers!

Will be keeping an eye on this one!

Thanks,
Rod

Agreed and if you look at his profile he *claims* to be a pro trader from another broker, which may be the reason why...the LA and RS values are lowish which means he may be averaging positions a bit - definitely one for the watch list!
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on May 17, 2019, 09:01:01 AM
@petersurrey - Thanks for this.  Does look very promising.  Have added to my favorites
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on May 19, 2019, 04:21:09 AM
Another promising one  - not sure if already discussed - excellent LA and RS values, and less long term risk exposure being news based - the downside being the very low RA value and -0.4% divergence; which will only widen further with more investment; but I am a real sucker for steady equity curves)

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/JIR.4.20

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Westie on May 20, 2019, 03:43:33 PM
Have any of you put your own trading accounts through the Darwinex algorithm ?

You don't need an account with them, you can use the 'linked accounts' option and it will trawl through the data from your existing broker and give you all the stats (Loss Aversion, Risk stability etc).

Takes about a day for it to update, but makes interesting reading once it's done.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: guptil on May 20, 2019, 07:51:13 PM
What sort of a venture is this at that point? I guess you don't get a record that you can see and furthermore observe the exchanges taken by various merchants? I'm asking since it has an immense effect when my benefits are saddled. Exchanging spot FX is exhausted totally diversely to different instruments for me and I don't figure this would go as exchanging spot FX.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: guptil on May 21, 2019, 03:51:38 PM
What sort of a speculation is this at that point? I guess you don't get a record that you can see and furthermore observe the exchanges taken by various brokers? I'm asking since it has an enormous effect when my benefits are burdened. Exchanging spot FX is burdened totally contrastingly to different instruments for me and I don't figure this would go as exchanging spot FX.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on May 22, 2019, 09:39:47 AM
Have any of you put your own trading accounts through the Darwinex algorithm ?

You don't need an account with them, you can use the 'linked accounts' option and it will trawl through the data from your existing broker and give you all the stats (Loss Aversion, Risk stability etc).

Takes about a day for it to update, but makes interesting reading once it's done.

They invite you to go 'public' if you have an account with them and enough of a track record...but with thousands of others it would need to be pretty good to get into their top 50....and even then only the top ten earn decent money...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on May 29, 2019, 03:10:28 AM
One to keep an eye on...very few but VERY profitable trades:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/URO.4.4/

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on May 29, 2019, 10:24:02 AM
Thanks Pete.  Does look promising
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on June 06, 2019, 04:23:23 PM
..and for those looking for an almost perfect equity curve...

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/TEU.4.12/

4 months and 350 trades ...wide spread of pairs and "Trend Trading by sophisticated EA Algo"
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 10:02:10 AM
Is it a good idea to use leveraging on darwinex when investing with say those that have low drawdown? Because on darwine once you set leveraging u cant remove it.
What more are the chances of leveraging blowing the account
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 11:00:48 AM
Is it a good idea to use leveraging on darwinex when investing with say those that have low drawdown? Because on darwine once you set leveraging u cant remove it.
What more are the chances of leveraging blowing the account

Hi Vik - I  use leveraging BUT this is not necessarily a recommendation;) IF you are sure of your Darwin and think it will remain low DD then go for it; but if it is one of the more volatile ones remember doubling your leverage will double your DD vs their reported records. So take HFD, for example, it is currently around 10% reported DD - this will jump to 20%of your deposit if you use double leverage.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:56 PM
thanks peter for reply. it was your post that put me onto the site and i really like how it operates. being UK based is a bonus to. i also like the fact you dont pay any fee unless the trader performs. this is brilliant.

im looking to invest in max 4 darwins, low drawdown being a key factor with stable returns and a record of at least 2 years.

so far i like:
SKJ: Low drawdown of -4.3%
VSA: Low drawdown of -7%
ERQ  love the look of this, but you cant invest at moment
HFD: Low drawdown of 10%
TEU - low drawdown but not long enough track record, but seems nice and steady in the few months hes been operating. i will keep this on my radar
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 12:33:05 PM
thanks peter for reply. it was your post that put me onto the site and i really like how it operates. being UK based is a bonus to. i also like the fact you dont pay any fee unless the trader performs. this is brilliant.

im looking to invest in max 4 darwins, low drawdown being a key factor with stable returns and a record of at least 2 years.

so far i like:
SKJ: Low drawdown of -4.3%
VSA: Low drawdown of -7%
ERQ  love the look of this, but you cant invest at moment
HFD: Low drawdown of 10%
TEU - low drawdown but not long enough track record, but seems nice and steady in the few months hes been operating. i will keep this on my radar

Same list as mine - apart from skj  ;D VSA and HFD tend to lose on different months to date which makes for a smoother equity curve..
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 12:46:52 PM
im liking this as well;
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/XEI.4.9/ (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/XEI.4.9/)  low drawdown of 5% has 10k of own funds invested and his loss aversion is 9.3

im still debating whether to use leveraging but will first drill into the filters more
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 01:30:50 PM
im liking this as well;
https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/XEI.4.9/ (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/XEI.4.9/)  low drawdown of 5% has 10k of own funds invested and his loss aversion is 9.3

im still debating whether to use leveraging but will first drill into the filters more

Very nice.. excellent RA and RS values which is more common with manual/discretionary traders...underlying strategy also looks great (before Darwinex gets their hands on it!).

One way around the double leveraging is to drip feed into the system a little each month....so if there is a large DD you aren't burnt too badly...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 03, 2019, 01:48:45 PM
Is it a good idea to use leveraging on darwinex when investing with say those that have low drawdown? Because on darwine once you set leveraging u cant remove it.
What more are the chances of leveraging blowing the account



Hi Vik - I  use leveraging BUT this is not necessarily a recommendation;) IF you are sure of your Darwin and think it will remain low DD then go for it; but if it is one of the more volatile ones remember doubling your leverage will double your DD vs their reported records. So take HFD, for example, it is currently around 10% reported DD - this will jump to 20%of your deposit if you use double leverage.

Re DD going to 20% of your deposit if you use double leverage: It will do this to your account if you only have 1 Darwin. If you have a portfolio of several Darwins the effect is of course lessened.

But perhaps Peter you meant 20% of your deposit on that Darwin.

Thanks very much for all the helpful information you give here on Darwinex.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: user456 on July 03, 2019, 02:18:12 PM
thanks peter for reply. it was your post that put me onto the site and i really like how it operates. being UK based is a bonus to. i also like the fact you dont pay any fee unless the trader performs. this is brilliant.

im looking to invest in max 4 darwins, low drawdown being a key factor with stable returns and a record of at least 2 years.

so far i like:
SKJ: Low drawdown of -4.3%
VSA: Low drawdown of -7%
ERQ  love the look of this, but you cant invest at moment
HFD: Low drawdown of 10%
TEU - low drawdown but not long enough track record, but seems nice and steady in the few months hes been operating. i will keep this on my radar

You should also factor in monthly negative divergence and as far as the track record goes I wouldn't trust "migrated" track records. Only native Darwinex track record can be fully trusted, IMO.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 02:29:34 PM
I wanted to keep the portfolio to around max 4 darwins to maximise gains by being more concentrated. going to do 5k in each portfolio using the x2 leverage.
I will now also not consider accounts that have been migrated within last 12 months.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 03, 2019, 02:35:46 PM
I wanted to keep the portfolio to around max 4 darwins to maximise gains by being more concentrated. going to do 5k in each portfolio using the x2 leverage.
I will now also not consider accounts that have been migrated.

On the Darwins Return/Risk chart it will show if and when the Darwin has been migrated. I like to look for time at Darwinex (after migration) of a least 1 year and preferably 2 or more. See SYO https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/SYO.4.24/
for example.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 06:07:10 PM
PME looks like another good Darwin to me.

has anyone made consistent profit results from darwins?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 06:30:26 PM
PME looks like another good Darwin to me.

has anyone made consistent profit results from darwins?

PME is closed to new investors ( note sell only option) and also has over 1% monthly negative divergence being news based. Very nice performance though)

I haven't lost money with Darwinex to date which is a first with any broker;) I tend to dip in and out though and have a very low DD tolerance)
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 06:58:14 PM
thanks peter, theres a lot of settings to play with when filtering.   im concentrating on above 65 D score, low drawdown, high LA and high PF.

from your experience which is more than my 2 days on it, do you find any filter settings that work best? or is there any setting i should pay particular attention to that is key?


Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 08:51:22 PM
thanks peter, theres a lot of settings to play with when filtering.   im concentrating on above 65 D score, low drawdown, high LA and high PF.

from your experience which is more than my 2 days on it, do you find any filter settings that work best? or is there any setting i should pay particular attention to that is key?

Don't read too much into the settings  - I use my own (you can create and save to Darwinex) grid/marti filter which removes any systems with RS and LA values lower than 30, and highly likely to be dangerous marti/grids. Other than that aim for low DD less than 15% and ideally less than 10.  Good also to have high RA and RS values - measures how well the trader controls risk. Look at the underlying performance by clicking on the system name - that will show how it performs without Darwinex's intervention. Other than that the only true metric is time...don't jump on any systems with just a few months track record;) Some on the Darwinex forums wait 2 years! Out of 2000 available systems you are trying to find the 20 that will remain profitable for the next few years...so be patient:)
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 09:49:17 PM
cheers peter, I crunched some numbers using most of your criteria listed, and I got these back:

VSA
SKI
UPP   this looks good
JNE

what about if the traders equity/VAR is showing above 10%  is that a bad sign?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
cheers peter, I crunched some numbers using most of your criteria listed, and I got these back:

VSA
SKI
UPP   this looks good
JNE

what about if the traders equity/VAR is showing above 10%  is that a bad sign?

Yep UPP looks pretty good, although I also use another filter  - the last three months trading record - is the system holding up and would I have enough patience with that sort of recent performance?

The higher the trader's equity and VAR the better - if you have a trader risking 10K with VAR @ 20% it means he is risking a total of 2K, which is much better than say a VAR of 1% where he would be risking just 100!
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 03, 2019, 10:24:39 PM
Hi vik2001,  check out Darwins AZG & RAT.  Both look promising imo. Hope this helps
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 10:26:57 PM
Another thing to look out for, as found with SKI (nice find;) is are the winning months much larger than the losing ones - as it makes the losing months much easier to tolerate, knowing a potential 'blockbuster' (>10%) month maybe just around the corner  :D
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 03, 2019, 10:28:59 PM
Hi vik2001,  check out Darwins AZG & RAT.  Both look promising imo. Hope this helps

I should add YBE is shaping up very nicely - well done :D
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 10:43:18 PM
Hi vik2001,  check out Darwins AZG & RAT.  Both look promising imo. Hope this helps

thanks I saw RAT but the name put me off as well as the last 1 year performance, as well as it being over my 12% drawdown limit. 
azg looks good and come out on my filter results despite DD being slightly higher.


good tips there peter to ;) i spent most the day on darwinex site filtering results lol

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 03, 2019, 10:55:52 PM
No worries. I like your selection criteria!

If you haven't already, try the Darwinex Backtesting tool which simulates how much you would have earned investing in a Darwin/multiple Darwins:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwins-backtest?startDate=1546300800000&investment=1000&leverage=1&inactiveProducts=&activeProducts=
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 11:01:58 PM
ok so after all the filtering, I found these to meet my criteria of low DD (incase i buy with 2x lev), high RS, RA, LA and PF scores

VSA
SKI
HFD
JNE one to watch more time needed
FLK one to watch more time needed
ERQ buy if available soon
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 03, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
cool it would have returned 35% using 2x leverage in the back test ON 10K

VSA
SKI
HFD


Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 03, 2019, 11:50:10 PM
Cool.

Myself and my brother are invested in VSA.  Good returns but their divergence is getting high now as the amount invested in them is higher than its capacity
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Penumbra on July 04, 2019, 06:08:14 AM
What do you guys think of NUN?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 09:20:48 AM
Cool.

Myself and my brother are invested in VSA.  Good returns but their divergence is getting high now as the amount invested in them is higher than its capacity

, thanks for pointing this out. When the divergence is getting higher Close to - 1.5 does that mean we should get out of it as the Returns won't be as good. I still don't understand this part of it properly any more light you can shed on it?
Thanks
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: user456 on July 04, 2019, 09:36:48 AM
personally, I don't invest in Darwins with a monthly divergence higher than -0.5% ... on a yearly basis you would do worse by at least 6% (without compounding effects). I wish Darwin providers would take this more seriously and close their Darwins earlier. ERQ is a good example of how it should be handled, IMO.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 10:11:55 AM
personally, I don't invest in Darwins with a monthly divergence higher than -0.5% ... on a yearly basis you would do worse by at least 6% (without compounding effects). I wish Darwin providers would take this more seriously and close their Darwins earlier. ERQ is a good example of how it should be handled, IMO.

, in that case vsa is higher then - 0.5 which would make it uninvestable. Is currently at -0.64
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
user456 summarised it well.  Even though VSA appears to be a good trader/Darwin, the divergence is getting large.  Currently it is around-2% on average on my live account which means investor gains are diverging further away from VSA gains.  Add to the fact they seem to be getting more investors, I fear divergence will get worse.  Darwin providers need to look at their advised Capacity limits and set them accordingly like user456 suggested.

Darwinex is a great platform but there is a lot for both traders and investors to learn to best utilise its capabilities.  Maybe VSA is not aware of Divergence/Capacity issues.

@vik2001 - Read this about Divergence --> https://help.darwinex.com/divergence

Read this about Capacity --> https://help.darwinex.com/capacity-manager
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 04, 2019, 11:12:11 AM
user456 summarised it well.  Even though VSA appears to be a good trader/Darwin, the divergence is getting large.  Currently it is around-2% on average on my live account which means investor gains are diverging further away from VSA gains.  Add to the fact they seem to be getting more investors, I fear divergence will get worse.  Darwin providers need to look at their advised Capacity limits and set them accordingly like user456 suggested.

Darwinex is a great platform but there is a lot for both traders and investors to learn to best utilise its capabilities.  Maybe VSA is not aware of Divergence/Capacity issues.

@vik2001 - Read this about Divergence --> https://help.darwinex.com/divergence

Read this about Capacity --> https://help.darwinex.com/capacity-manager

VSA capacity (CP) rating is indeed tiny, but it appears their published figure of around 0.6% is way lower than the results of the live accounts, which is indeed concerning...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 11:16:52 AM
where are you reading the divergence from?  on VSA page it shows monthly divergence as -0.64%(0.28s) (user456 was referring to this being higher than -0.5?) - is this what I should be looking at?
if I hoover the mouse over the monthly divergence figure it says its capped at -1.5%   

user456 was referring to this being higher than -0.5 making darwins uninvestable for him?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 11:28:20 AM
I was invested live with VSA (*Sold at beginning of month/July)  so even though it says VSA is capped at -1.5% the actual reality when I was invested was it being more closer to -2% divergence on my live investor account.

You will see what I mean if you do invest live money with them.

See attached screenshot of my investment history page. You can see the negative divergence I had with VSA in monetary terms. Unfortunately it does not show the divergence in percentage % terms.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 11:39:04 AM
I was invested live with VSA (*Sold at beginning of month/July)  so even though it says VSA is capped at -1.5% the actual reality when I was invested was it being more closer to -2% divergence on my live investor account.

You will see what I mean if you do invest live money with them.

See attached screenshot of my investment history page. You can see the negative divergence I had with VSA in monetary terms. Unfortunately it does not show the divergence in percentage % terms.

thanks. so unless your live investing its harder to get a more accruate picture of divergence.   as peter said the CP tab for VSA is 1.  the higher CP is the better its supposed to handle divergence.

if I look at Darwin user UPP his CP rating is 1 (so not good same as VSA). But the monthly divergence is in the green at 0.01% (which is good). so this information is conflicting itself right?

as a investor I want  to know the divergence is ok before I invest as I havnt got access to live results as shown in yr screenshot.  but the divergence information seems to be somewhat conflicted before you invest.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 11:57:12 AM
"so unless your live investing its harder to get a more accurate picture of divergence" - Correct

The way I approach potentially investing on Darwinex now is to actually click the Capacity tab button on a Darwin page.  This opens up the 'Investable Attributes' of it i.e. Capacity.  Scroll down and you will see what the Max Estimated Investment is for a Darwin.  VSA Max Estimated Investment according to Darwinex is $510,000

VSA currently has $427k live investor funds/AuM + $273k Darwinia Allocation which equals  to it being approx $190k over its estimated $510k capacity. This will not lead to positive divergence.

You have to take all these things into consideration before investing and use your own initiative as to what best to do.

I have attached another screenshot for you about VSA Estimated Investment highlighted
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 04, 2019, 12:18:28 PM
"so unless your live investing its harder to get a more accurate picture of divergence" - Correct

The way I approach potentially investing on Darwinex now is to actually click the Capacity tab button on a Darwin page.  This opens up the 'Investable Attributes' of it i.e. Capacity.  Scroll down and you will see what the Max Estimated Investment is for a Darwin.  VSA Max Estimated Investment according to Darwinex is $510,000

VSA currently has $427k live investor funds/AuM + $273k Darwinia Allocation which equals  to it being approx $190k over its estimated $510k capacity. This will not lead to positive divergence.

You have to take all these things into consideration before investing and use your own initiative as to what best to do.

I have attached another screenshot for you about VSA Estimated Investment highlighted

Agreed and low CP value funds can trade OK initially when investor capital is low, but quickly move into negative divergence when capital grows...
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 12:19:57 PM
brilliant Pegasus, that made me understand things a lot better.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 12:22:11 PM
is it worth looking for CP values above 5?

one that ticks all the boxes for me is user
SKI
HFD - IS THIS OVER ITS Max Estimated Investment ???
JNE. 

what do others think?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 12:54:19 PM
brilliant Pegasus, that made me understand things a lot better.

No worries mate
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: user456 on July 04, 2019, 01:41:26 PM
some important points made by pegasusfx. I'd like to expand a little on capacity vs divergence.


A divergence cap of -1.5% is just a default cutoff value that will close the Darwin to new investors once this threshold has been reached. Personally, I think this value is too high and some Darwin providers have set a lower value. It does not mean that your divergence as an investor is capped at -1.5% as it could be way higher, theoretically. I have seen the divergence of Darwins shoot up to -8%+ temporarily.

Other than that I would like to add that the Darwinia AuM has no influence on divergence as it's just a virtual allocation with no impact on market liquidity. Also, If you are evaluating Darwins you should take experience into account as well. A sample size of 42 trades (SKI) wouldn't be enough for me to justify an investment.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 04, 2019, 02:02:16 PM
is it worth looking for CP values above 5?

one that ticks all the boxes for me is user
SKI
HFD - IS THIS OVER ITS Max Estimated Investment ???
JNE. 

what do others think?

HFD has plenty of room left and relatively little divergence to date...capacity 5+ million...but can be very volatile, especially if using double leverage, so best to drip feed in investment over a few months.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 04:27:47 PM
some important points made by pegasusfx. I'd like to expand a little on capacity vs divergence.

  • capacity is only an estimation by the Darwinex algorithm of how much AuM the darwin can handle. For example, a strategy trading high lots with low pip per trade expectancy during illiquid hours will have a terrible capacity score.
  • Divergence measures the actual slippage investors are seeing when investing in this Darwin. However, a Darwin with a rather bad capacity score could still do ok in terms of divergence if the trader enters the market with pending limit orders and exits primarily through takeprofit.



A divergence cap of -1.5% is just a default cutoff value that will close the Darwin to new investors once this threshold has been reached. Personally, I think this value is too high and some Darwin providers have set a lower value. It does not mean that your divergence as an investor is capped at -1.5% as it could be way higher, theoretically. I have seen the divergence of Darwins shoot up to -8%+ temporarily.

Other than that I would like to add that the Darwinia AuM has no influence on divergence as it's just a virtual allocation with no impact on market liquidity. Also, If you are evaluating Darwins you should take experience into account as well. A sample size of 42 trades (SKI) wouldn't be enough for me to justify an investment.

@user456 -Thank you for the further clarification on these points.  I have noted them down for my future reference
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 06:03:55 PM
Pegasus are you PXB on Darwin?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 07:04:58 PM
Pegasus are you PXB on Darwin?

Yes.  My Darwins are YBE & PXB
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 07:50:45 PM
cool. pxb come up on my search filtered list. all values looking good just needs a bit more time to mature in terms of age :)
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 08:14:54 PM
cool. pxb come up on my search filtered list. all values looking good just needs a bit more time to mature in terms of age :)

Okay cool.  Thanks
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 04, 2019, 08:16:16 PM
Is it a pure play on gold only?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 04, 2019, 09:10:24 PM
Hi vik. Yes Gold on these strategies, as well as other major pairs.  I have sent you a PM with more details.  Cheers
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 05, 2019, 07:32:16 PM
im quite interested in UPP https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/UPP.4.5# (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/UPP.4.5#)

all the metric values look good. high RS, high RA, high LA, high PF. drawdown under 10%.  but the CP values is very low at 1.1  and i dont understand why??    the monthly divergence looks ok or am i reading something wrong???
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Penumbra on July 05, 2019, 07:35:55 PM
Divergence is the actual divergence, CP is a value, that will become significant in the future, when a certain AUM treshold is crossed, Itīs a forward looking guestimate.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 05, 2019, 09:01:21 PM
im quite interested in UPP https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/UPP.4.5# (https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/UPP.4.5#)

all the metric values look good. high RS, high RA, high LA, high PF. drawdown under 10%.  but the CP values is very low at 1.1  and i dont understand why??    the monthly divergence looks ok or am i reading something wrong???

Capacity (CP) total is less than 0.5M and relatively small for a Darwin.. but still way off being a divergence issue with so little invested to date.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 06, 2019, 12:23:11 PM
thanks guys for the good advise in this post. 
i decided to invest in the following darwins with a 10K live account using 2x leveraging:

4K: HFD (long term hold)
4K: SKI  (long term hold)
4K: JNE  (long term hold)
4K: AZG  (long term hold)
2k: YZZ  (long term hold)
2K: ODE  (short term hold, more of a punt to see how it performs. else can be replaced with below)

Darwins to keep a eye on (not invested):
WAC, TEU, UPP, GOB, NUN
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Pegasus FX on July 06, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
No worries vik2001.  You have selected some promising Darwins.  Was not aware of JNE which looks very promising.  Have added this to my favorites.  Good luck with your portfolio
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 06, 2019, 02:12:35 PM
I read on the community forum not many investors have been profitable in the long run, is that peoples experience who use it here also?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 06, 2019, 02:24:43 PM
I read on the community forum not many investors have been profitable in the long run, is that peoples experience who use it here also?

I haven't been. :(  I started late last August with a portfolio of 11 Top AUM Darwins. This strategy had been very successful for at least the past two years. Well soon after I bought in the market changed and most of them lost.

Last year I lost 17%. This year I have been gradually making changes and not requiring new ones to be in the top AUM. This year I am doing better but still not in profit. So far in 2019 I am down 2.42%.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 06, 2019, 02:44:59 PM
in equities over the long run small caps outperform their larger peers. that is fact.  I wonder if its the case with Darwinex , looking for the smaller darwins that can outperform its larger peers.

from my early stage of research what could make a successful Darwin is high RS,RA,LA and PF values.  mid to high CP value and below 10% DD.  and a pure native track record with minimum 12 months under its belt.  though only 2 darwins meet this criteria HFD and SKI.  JNE just misses the mark because it has a 10month history.     to allow me to add more darwins to the portfolio I had to allow for more DD and slightly loosen the criteria.

another strategy that's running through my mind is to test a successful Darwin by buying into it after it suffers a large drawdown on the hope it recovers.   essentially buy low sell high.  but this is all new to me as im more into buying stocks and shares, and forex investing is competley different.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 06, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
in equities over the long run small caps outperform their larger peers. that is fact.  I wonder if its the case with Darwinex , looking for the smaller darwins that can outperform its larger peers.

from my early stage of research what could make a successful Darwin is high RS,RA,LA and PF values.  mid to high CP value and below 10% DD.  and a pure native track record with minimum 12 months under its belt.  though only 2 darwins meet this criteria HFD and SKI.  JNE just misses the mark because it has a 10month history.     to allow me to add more darwins to the portfolio I had to allow for more DD and slightly loosen the criteria.

another strategy that's running through my mind is to test a successful Darwin by buying into it after it suffers a large drawdown on the hope it recovers.   essentially buy low sell high.  but this is all new to me as im more into buying stocks and shares, and forex investing is competley different.

JNE and WAC look good - but both hold trades for lengthy periods - 135 days in the case of JNE :o
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 06, 2019, 06:26:49 PM
Nice one peter. where did you see the length of time the trades were open, under assets and timeframe?

Sent u a quick pm also.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 06, 2019, 09:01:36 PM
Nice one peter. where did you see the length of time the trades were open, under assets and timeframe?

Sent u a quick pm also.

click on the system name to retrieve the 'underlying strategy'; then select 'trading journal' and scroll down to 'trades distribution'.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 06, 2019, 10:03:13 PM
Nice one peter. where did you see the length of time the trades were open, under assets and timeframe?

Sent u a quick pm also.

click on the system name to retrieve the 'underlying strategy'; then select 'trading journal' and scroll down to 'trades distribution'.

i didnt know about this bit.   JNE has a high LA score 7.8, and even though there are long running trades 135 days plus, they must have been winning trades else the LA score would have been a lot lower if they were simply loosers,  i could be wrong but perhaps long swing trades?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 07, 2019, 10:33:16 AM
Nice one peter. where did you see the length of time the trades were open, under assets and timeframe?

Sent u a quick pm also.

click on the system name to retrieve the 'underlying strategy'; then select 'trading journal' and scroll down to 'trades distribution'.

i didnt know about this bit.   JNE has a high LA score 7.8, and even though there are long running trades 135 days plus, they must have been winning trades else the LA score would have been a lot lower if they were simply loosers,  i could be wrong but perhaps long swing trades?

Long-running trades are not necessarily bad - especially if it is only a few as in this case, with the average being 10 days - it just means you have a longer wait for the profits to materialise - ie more patience is required. LA is a measure of how much profit each trade retains after entry....no good having a system which makes 5% then gives it all back. LA also highlights grid/marti's...low values means the system is struggling to generate and retain profit per trade. JNE has good LA and RS values, an incredibly high win rate @90% and 69 pip to 16 pip win to loss ratio, incredibly high CP and has only closed one trade (over 0.1%) out as a materialised loss in the last 3 months..so a lot to like :)
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 21, 2019, 06:32:52 AM
Nice Darwin just popped up on Darwinex 'latest' filter - low DD and decent monthly returns to date...but the migration date is very recent and the low LA value indicates a bit of marti/grid going on:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/RII.4.3/

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 21, 2019, 06:45:09 AM
This one has 200K invested on MQL5 but is new to Darwinex - no marti grid and decent verified track record to date:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/MGS.4.22/

https://www.mql5.com/en/signals/478656#!tab=tab_account



Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 21, 2019, 08:20:24 AM
This one has relatively perfect metrics and when you drill down through the trades there is no obvious marti grid going on and a good spread of trades..but still only three months in:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/MLM.4.1/

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 22, 2019, 06:18:52 AM
One of a few which back their own trading with a decent deposit (10K) and VAR (20%)..nice strategy based on S/R..

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/VIW.4.6

https://community.darwinex.com/t/viw-vkno422/4027

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/vkno422/viable-investable-waves-viw/2488023

Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Nasdaq100 on July 24, 2019, 05:50:03 PM
One of a few which back their own trading with a decent deposit (10K) and VAR (20%)..nice strategy based on S/R..

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/VIW.4.6

https://community.darwinex.com/t/viw-vkno422/4027

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/vkno422/viable-investable-waves-viw/2488023

A clear hold and pray. Sorry to disappoint you.

I am still trying to get the hang of Darwinex system analysis tools. do you find them more useful than myfxbook?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 25, 2019, 07:39:55 AM
One of a few which back their own trading with a decent deposit (10K) and VAR (20%)..nice strategy based on S/R..

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/VIW.4.6

https://community.darwinex.com/t/viw-vkno422/4027

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/vkno422/viable-investable-waves-viw/2488023

A clear hold and pray. Sorry to disappoint you.

I am still trying to get the hang of Darwinex system analysis tools. do you find them more useful than myfxbook?

You would need to be able to tolerate 30% floating DD for a 7% monthly average return over the last year on the master account ..

Darwinex's metrics can be VERY hit and miss - example below - has some excellent metrics but note the really bad OS and CS:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/TTB.4.6

I have set my own OS CS RA and RS @ >7 as a starting point...but ANY really low metric values <4 should ring alarm bells....







Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: SJWkiller on July 25, 2019, 08:57:02 AM
One of a few which back their own trading with a decent deposit (10K) and VAR (20%)..nice strategy based on S/R..

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/VIW.4.6

https://community.darwinex.com/t/viw-vkno422/4027

https://www.myfxbook.com/members/vkno422/viable-investable-waves-viw/2488023

A clear hold and pray. Sorry to disappoint you.

I am still trying to get the hang of Darwinex system analysis tools. do you find them more useful than myfxbook?

You would need to be able to tolerate 30% floating DD for a 7% monthly average return over the last year on the master account ..

Darwinex's metrics can be VERY hit and miss - example below - has some excellent metrics but note the really bad OS and CS:

https://www.darwinex.com/darwin/TTB.4.6

I have set my own OS CS RA and RS @ >7 as a starting point...but ANY really low metric values <4 should ring alarm bells....

You have a point with OS being low but there are cases of breakout strategies where OS can be very low but the strategy is good with a high % of winning trades. I have been studying Darwinex metrics for a while now and the algorithms need lots of work. They are far from perfect, I would even argue they are no better than average. There are some terrible strategies with pretty good metrics which is very concerning.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 25, 2019, 09:03:45 AM
Agreed - and I would not invest for a few below average metrics...the classic being OTB's BUX which right up until the end had an almost perfect RA  Risk Adjustment) value when the Darwinex risk manager was having to intervene on an almost daily basis to stop him blowing accounts!
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: SJWkiller on July 25, 2019, 09:14:50 AM
Yeah, BUX is the case study for Darwinex. They should learn from it and improve their algos. That was a giant fail on their part. I actually spoke to their support about it and they told me that the numbers were correctly calculated. After it blew up their excuse was simply "it happens". Its hard to trust thier metrics after that and the best way to evaluate their strategies is to more or less ignore them and do the research yourself.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Westie on July 25, 2019, 11:16:25 AM
Its hard to trust thier metrics after that and the best way to evaluate their strategies is to more or less ignore them and do the research yourself.

Except you can't analyse the strategy as the trades are hidden from you.

My own conclusion mirrors your own, after 12 months trying to get darwinex to work I bailed on it. Bit of a waste of time, as I spent numerous hours trying to understand the metrics.

You could sink your whole life into reviewing Darwins, and learning the metrics - and for what ? to invest in systems like bux ?
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: vik2001 on July 25, 2019, 11:30:23 AM
Its hard to trust thier metrics after that and the best way to evaluate their strategies is to more or less ignore them and do the research yourself.

Except you can't analyse the strategy as the trades are hidden from you.

My own conclusion mirrors your own, after 12 months trying to get darwinex to work I bailed on it. Bit of a waste of time, as I spent numerous hours trying to understand the metrics.

You could sink your whole life into reviewing Darwins, and learning the metrics - and for what ? to invest in systems like bux ?

In the short term i invested in darwinex with a live account i pulled out because i couldnt make sense of all the metrics. One metric would look ok and another would confuse you and think maybe you got yr judgment all wrong. The worst thing being you cant see what is being traded so why would you invest? I wanna see if im Investing in something like a equity fund or signal what is being traded. If not im investing into it blind.

Plus not been able to see any investor in their community who has been able to make constant profits in the long term. They all turn into loosers at the end from what i could see. Thats not to say they arent good darwins. Hfd looks fantastic on several metrics.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: petersurrey on July 25, 2019, 11:36:20 AM
Its hard to trust thier metrics after that and the best way to evaluate their strategies is to more or less ignore them and do the research yourself.

Except you can't analyse the strategy as the trades are hidden from you.

My own conclusion mirrors your own, after 12 months trying to get darwinex to work I bailed on it. Bit of a waste of time, as I spent numerous hours trying to understand the metrics.

You could sink your whole life into reviewing Darwins, and learning the metrics - and for what ? to invest in systems like bux ?

Well I always start looking at the 'underlying system' by clicking on the system name - that reveals a lot as with BUX. I also review the trades under 'assets and timeframes'  - scroll down to the very bottom, select the last three months and that tells you a lot about how much risk the trader is taking to profit and how much each trade runs into loss before making a profit etc - quite revealing. However, the site can easily fooled by fake track records as with SCS, so the  best option is to monitor track record post-migration, keeping a close eye on the underlying strategy to make sure Darwinex isn't 'hiding' a very high-risk system
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Penumbra on July 28, 2019, 06:44:12 PM
I love Darwinex, as they are very fair and hard working guys, who offer great service for traders and investors.

All their metrics work with hindsight, what else, so things can turn really nasty for my investors,  if I start sniffing glue next week, despite my excellent scores.
Maybe the danger of Darwinex is that investors think they have more safety and control, then somewhere else. If you canīt tell a bad from a good strategy, Darwinex wonīt help you.
But thatīs not their fault.
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: nwboater on July 28, 2019, 08:43:30 PM
I love Darwinex, as they are very fair and hard working guys, who offer great service for traders and investors.

All their metrics work with hindsight, what else, so things can turn really nasty for my investors,  if I start sniffing glue next week, despite my excellent scores.
Maybe the danger of Darwinex is that investors think they have more safety and control, then somewhere else. If you canīt tell a bad from a good strategy, Darwinex wonīt help you.
But thatīs not their fault.

Actually Darwinex's Risk Manager greatly helped Clients of BUX (OTB) during his recent huge DD. If memory serves BUX DD was a third or a quarter of the underlying strategy.

Cheers,
Rod
Title: Re: Darwins
Post by: Penumbra on July 28, 2019, 10:22:22 PM

Actually Darwinex's Risk Manager greatly helped Clients of BUX (OTB) during his recent huge DD. If memory serves BUX DD was a third or a quarter of the underlying strategy.

Cheers,
Rod

Yes, the risk manager helped them, but couldnīt save them from not picking a imho kind of suboptimal Darwin.
So you can leave your head on, but bleed to death by tiny stitches.
The outcome is the same. What is won by that?

If you pick the right strategy, you need no risk manager, or it even distorts a great strategy.