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Author Topic: Darwins  (Read 15923 times)

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 01:16:12 AM »
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod

Online alaali

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 05:05:41 PM »
I liked the idea, I tried to open an account but for some reason my country is not listed. When I talked to them they said they cannot accept customers from my country because of legal reasons!

I don't know about any legal reasons from my country but it look like an error on their website. My country is selected in Nationality dropdown list but not in residency/address dropdown list.

Anyway the idea of this Broker is nice and the ability to select from different trades with a 20% fees is tempting.

Online petersurrey

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2018, 11:21:23 AM »
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod

My limited trading to date with Darwinex has included single Darwin investments only, with some very narrow near misses re. dodgy systems; which although providing great back tests collapsed within the first few months on Darwinex.  I liked THA before is hit a bad patch earlier this year; which shows even 'great' systems with years of history can be risky short term. DAQ is a great prospect but the divergence is growing with each new investment, and will make it untradable in a few months, which is, of course, the big limitation of Darwinex. LVS is one of the few longer term holds which isn't affected by the dreaded divergence, Overall I am not keen on portfolios, even though they clearly limit DD  - and prefer to back one or two obvious stand out performers.

Darwin selection was done by using various search criteria such as selecting 'all Darwins' then 'on fire' then lowest DD with the highest investment - you can drill down through each Darwin to check for grids and marti ( more than one trade open for each currency) using 'underlying strategy' and other things like divergence.. so although some systems may appear investable if they are trading 10 open pairs and always exposed to the market they are much more risky....

Individual Darwin selection can be subjective though, and the advantage of selecting top 5 or 10 based on investment is that money follows results, and you catch 'winning' systems which are at various stages of their win/loss cycles, thus hopefully smoothing the equity return curve. I would like to see Darwinex take more of a lead on this and give additional stats re performance drawdown and risk for various portfolio combinations such as found with Alpari PAMM's.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 11:29:28 AM by petersurrey »

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 04:10:42 PM »
Darwinex is the only managed account provider I have profited with over time and has a lot going for it. It is very transparent, however grid and marti systems can still sneak in  - you need to need to drill down through the 'underlying strategy' and 'trade journal' to confirm the number of open trades at any one time  - not at all obvious to a first user. The trader is also not obliged to show the trade stats; therefore although appearing to be transparent you could be going blindly into a more risky system than you thought.

Although Darwinex operates a strict 10% VAR ( value at risk) using the traders historic live account records to limit the potential risk to the investor; the very nature of forex means that as the market changes losses can far exceed this 10% limit, as you can see by filtering ' drawdown' for all darwins.

Finally, a lot of great systems don't offer leverage ( large investment) ability without major divergence issues, such as THA..really frustrating when you see that 'sell' only option when trying to invest!

There are some solid lower risk systems which have shown they can manage most conditions over the last few years such as LVS, and Darwinex allows you to use double leverage even with the latest ESMA rules, which makes these Darwins more appealing...20-30% at double leverage is a very healthy return...

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on Darwinex. I'm curious if you have developed a portfolio of many Darwins as Anglebird and many of the Darwinex Community (Forum) members have rather than just picking 1, 2 or 3 Darwins as we typically do here with Signals, EA's, and MAMM's?

If you do have a lot of Darwins would you mind sharing how you went about selecting them, or do you follow one of the Community members Portfolios? Also do you feel comfortable using double leverage (20% VAR) on the Darwins you select?


Hi Anglebird,

I have been spending a lot of time at the Darwinex Community and am gaining some knowledge of the Darwinex system and about Darwins. They have developed something quite unique and it is the most professional approach to Forex investing I have seen.

I have read most of the Community threads on Portfolios and don't find the one that you so generously shared with us. Is it one of them discussed in the Community and if so which one?


If there are any others here that have invested in Darwins or are thinking about it please join this conversation. :)

Cheers,
Rod

My limited trading to date with Darwinex has included single Darwin investments only, with some very narrow near misses re. dodgy systems; which although providing great back tests collapsed within the first few months on Darwinex.  I liked THA before is hit a bad patch earlier this year; which shows even 'great' systems with years of history can be risky short term. DAQ is a great prospect but the divergence is growing with each new investment, and will make it untradable in a few months, which is, of course, the big limitation of Darwinex. LVS is one of the few longer term holds which isn't affected by the dreaded divergence, Overall I am not keen on portfolios, even though they clearly limit DD  - and prefer to back one or two obvious stand out performers.

Darwin selection was done by using various search criteria such as selecting 'all Darwins' then 'on fire' then lowest DD with the highest investment - you can drill down through each Darwin to check for grids and marti ( more than one trade open for each currency) using 'underlying strategy' and other things like divergence.. so although some systems may appear investable if they are trading 10 open pairs and always exposed to the market they are much more risky....

Individual Darwin selection can be subjective though, and the advantage of selecting top 5 or 10 based on investment is that money follows results, and you catch 'winning' systems which are at various stages of their win/loss cycles, thus hopefully smoothing the equity return curve. I would like to see Darwinex take more of a lead on this and give additional stats re performance drawdown and risk for various portfolio combinations such as found with Alpari PAMM's.

Hi petersurrey,

Thanks very much for explaining how you are investing at Darwinex and your further thoughts on this broker.

With almost 2,000 Darwins it can seem a daunting task to select the 'best ones'. As you pointed out there are many ways to select with their helpful filtering system.

It has been nice to find some of the traders whose Signals I once subbed to that stopped selling their signals. Thales and Titan are among those, and are some of the Top Darwins.

Cheers,
Rod

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2018, 04:38:07 PM »
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod

Offline Humble Trader's Fx

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 12:15:17 AM »
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I know its a little early but can you give us a short update of your experience with Darwinex; or any other member who would like to share.

I am pleased with their broker service but have yet to get serious about investing a substantial sum on specific Darwins; what is your experience thus far and can you list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader

« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 12:26:25 AM by Humble Trader's Fx »
We humbly approach the Forex Market and take only what is earned through our hard work and intelligence.

Online petersurrey

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 11:11:38 AM »
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to 10M investor funds this year alone....

Offline anglebird

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 12:18:00 PM »
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to 10M investor funds this year alone....

Hey Petersurrey,

I agree that SYO and SCS is so tempting, but be careful with some Darwin that not have bad period or drawdown period. Especially a fake migrated Darwin like SCS.. This is the page where the community talk about fake migrated account such as SCS: https://community.darwinex.com/t/unreal-fake-migrations-scs-gsx/4333

About SYO I can't see this darwin has healthy bad period, so I can assume this Darwin use averaging strategy without using stoploss because it can recover so fast from deep floating drawdown, and it's BAD. You can compare SYO with JZH, they are almost the same, don't have healthy drawdown and recover from it slowly and steady instead always recover very fast from it and when something bad happen everything only get worse, so becareful.

Online petersurrey

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 02:56:00 PM »
SYO and SCS (not available for trading yet) are looking promising - Darwinex will only release a new system to investors after thorough back checks of their live account history - the longer the better. As we know many can still crash after several successful years, hence the good idea to spread investments. Darwinex is a premium service compared to the signal providers ( MQL5, simpletrader etc) charging 20% profits; but well worth it if they remove a lot of the risk element using 10% VAR based on previous trade records...MQL5 systems having lost up to 10M investor funds this year alone....

Hey Petersurrey,

I agree that SYO and SCS is so tempting, but be careful with some Darwin that not have bad period or drawdown period. Especially a fake migrated Darwin like SCS.. This is the page where the community talk about fake migrated account such as SCS: https://community.darwinex.com/t/unreal-fake-migrations-scs-gsx/4333

About SYO I can't see this darwin has healthy bad period, so I can assume this Darwin use averaging strategy without using stoploss because it can recover so fast from deep floating drawdown, and it's BAD. You can compare SYO with JZH, they are almost the same, don't have healthy drawdown and recover from it slowly and steady instead always recover very fast from it and when something bad happen everything only get worse, so becareful.

Good spot! and explains why Darwinex haven't opened it up to investors, and yes I agree the one really annoying thing with this broker is that averaging down/grids/marti's can still hide, unless you really down through the master account trade history...

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2018, 05:25:44 PM »
Today my funds arrived at Darwinex. I just invested in the 11 Darwins suggested by Anglebird in Post #6 of this thread.

I feel very comfortable investing with Darwinex after reading a lot of their Community (Forum) and studying how their system functions. What they are doing is very revolutionary in the Forex industry and has been truly needed.

I also feel very comfortable investing in a portfolio of 11 instead of trying to chose 1-3 Darwins only. I suspect I will be able to sleep much better with the stability and low DD that this portfolio offers than I have with anything else in my Forex career.

At this point I have 25% of my Forex funds with Darwinex. Over time I will most likely substantially increase that.

Anglebird I want to thank you again for your helpful information on Darwinex and especially for sharing your portfolio.

Cheers,
Rod

Hello, Rod.

I know its a little early but can you give us a short update of your experience with Darwinex; or any other member who would like to share.

I am pleased with their broker service but have yet to get serious about investing a substantial sum on specific Darwins; what is your experience thus far and can you list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)


Regards,
HumbleTrader

Hi HT,

My experience with Darwinex thus far has been excellent. I am only investing in their Darwins (traders) though, not using their brokerage services.

Compared to the other Forex Social sites such as ForexSignals, Signal Start, etc. they are in a league of their own! They are extremely professional and of course have a huge offering of Darwins. Their Community (Forum) is also on a very high level.

It has taken me a while to get familiar with some of their terminology and how thoroughly they present what they call "Investable Attributes". These are various scores that attempt to present a good picture of a Darwins history and risks.

I really appreciate their use of VaR to attempt to normalize the risks of all Darwins. Because of that we can compare Darwins on a fairly level playing field.

I have put a good deal of time into trying to understand all of this, a lot of which is new to me. I feel confident that it will be time well spent.

As far as "list the top 5 Darwins which you find most fruitful to date.  :)" it is way too soon at only 3 weeks to be able to draw any conclusions. Even 3 months may not be enough. Mine is a long term portfolio consisting of 12 Darwins. I will say that I am only slightly positive. That may not sound like much but it is a lot better than my EA's have done over the same period. Using Cyborg, Wall Street EVO and Wall Street Trend I am down a fair bit in the last 3 weeks. Again though this is entirely too soon to draw any conclusions.

My portfolio consists of Darwins that were given in this thread by Anglebird (except GTD which I later added) and I again thank him. They are all in the Top 20 of Accounts Under Management (most funds). If anyone would like to analyze the individual Darwins at Darwinex here's the list:  LVS, THA, VTJ, QUA, NTR, STV, FEG, JMC, ATL, ERQ, NTI & GTD. Going to Explore and entering the individual Darwin you can get lots of data, including returns over various periods of time.

For those who would like to explore Portfolio building at Darwinex there is quite a bit of discussion at their Community. A recent thread lists several portfolios (not mine) and their results  https://community.darwinex.com/t/darwins-fund-darwins-managers-and-list-of-portfolios/4498.

After 2 months with my portfolio I will probably transfer more of my Forex funds to Darwinex for this portfolio. I presently have 25% of my funds there and will most likely increase that to 50%.

And finally my sleep has not been at all disturbed by activity in my Darwinex Portfolio like it sometimes is with my EA's. :)

Cheers,
Rod

Offline F1Maniac

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2018, 01:26:56 AM »
Hey all - i've reading this and coming up to speed with Darwinex and have a watched a few of their videos but something basic is still not very clear for me. very new to this darwinex concept so sorry if the below is silly.

I have a very basic question - we are buying and selling the traders strategy as a stock in a stock exchange, if so why are we still copying the underlying trade from the traders? I presume the buy and sell price of the traders strategy should take care of all that underlying trades profit or loss? no? If not am I exposed to trader twice? once in investing in their trading price on darwinex but also by executing their trades?

Also things like DD, stop loss - are they referring to the price on darwinex exhcange for the traders strategy or for the trades that are being copied. any help is appreciated. I've watched several videos but this is not explained clearly or I've completely missed it :(

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2018, 05:07:04 PM »
Hey all - i've reading this and coming up to speed with Darwinex and have a watched a few of their videos but something basic is still not very clear for me. very new to this darwinex concept so sorry if the below is silly.

I have a very basic question - we are buying and selling the traders strategy as a stock in a stock exchange, if so why are we still copying the underlying trade from the traders? I presume the buy and sell price of the traders strategy should take care of all that underlying trades profit or loss? no? If not am I exposed to trader twice? once in investing in their trading price on darwinex but also by executing their trades?

Also things like DD, stop loss - are they referring to the price on darwinex exhcange for the traders strategy or for the trades that are being copied. any help is appreciated. I've watched several videos but this is not explained clearly or I've completely missed it :(

You have asked some excellent questions and I am not sure of the answers. I did some searching at Darwinex and came up with these:

http://help.darwinex.com/darwinex-for-investors/the-meaning-of-a-darwins-quote-or-list-price
http://help.darwinex.com/darwinex-for-investors/darwin-vs-strategy

If no one else gives a good answer here you may want to ask your questions in the Darwinex Community; they are deserving of answers.

Cheers,
Rod


Offline jwatts7701

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2018, 08:58:15 PM »
newboater, investing in a portfolio of 12 forex traders is in my opinion a terrible decision. We all know the statistcis of forex.  The odds are high to very high that at least ONE (and probably more realistically) are going to heavily drawdown your portfolio and erase the other's gains and almost gaurantee that your portfolio either loses, or breaks even over time as a best case scenario.

If 90% of fx traders lose OVER TIME the odds that your 12 traders are top 10% are pretty rare. I could of course be proven wrong. But i would really try hard to widdle down your list to like 3-5 traders TOPS! 

I have done this in the past, with managers, signals, and EAs. The more you add, the more you almost gaurantee you will not experience any growth if you measure it over a good time period. This is just friendly advice, and again I would like to be proven wrong. Finding 12 forex traders that turn out to profitable overall, over time would be a miracle. 1 or 2 maybe.

Online nwboater

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2018, 10:37:00 PM »
newboater, investing in a portfolio of 12 forex traders is in my opinion a terrible decision. We all know the statistcis of forex.  The odds are high to very high that at least ONE (and probably more realistically) are going to heavily drawdown your portfolio and erase the other's gains and almost gaurantee that your portfolio either loses, or breaks even over time as a best case scenario.

If 90% of fx traders lose OVER TIME the odds that your 12 traders are top 10% are pretty rare. I could of course be proven wrong. But i would really try hard to widdle down your list to like 3-5 traders TOPS! 

I have done this in the past, with managers, signals, and EAs. The more you add, the more you almost gaurantee you will not experience any growth if you measure it over a good time period. This is just friendly advice, and again I would like to be proven wrong. Finding 12 forex traders that turn out to profitable overall, over time would be a miracle. 1 or 2 maybe.

Hi jwatts7701,

Thanks very much for expressing your concern about the potential problems with my portfolio.

I have had some of the same concerns and that is why I started using only 25% of my Forex funds. But the longer I'm at Darwinex the better I feel about what I'm doing.

I spend a lot of time reading the forum posts in their Community and researching various Darwins and Portfolio approaches. Finding the gems from among almost 2,000 Darwins is no easy task. As with most social trading sites there is a lot of junk. But there are also some very professionally run and long term successful traders there. I believe those few are of a much higher caliber than are available at the other sites.

I certainly would not try to build a portfolio with 12 traders from any other site: It would probably be a recipe for disaster as you are concerned about.

History:
Loss Years: GTD 1 year small loss with history to 2013. NTI 1 year small loss with history to 2012. The other 10 show no loss years with most giving a good return.

Longevity: NTR & SYO have history only back to 2016. The other 10 mostly have much more.

So with most having long profitable multi year annual history it would seem that my odds of having a serious problem are very diminished. And Anglebird (who turned me on to this) has two years of history with mostly the same portfolio giving a total income of 110% and very low DD. Of course this is Forex so anything is possible! :)

Thanks again for your genuine concern.

Cheers,
Rod
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 10:46:09 PM by nwboater »

Offline jwatts7701

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Re: Darwins
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2018, 10:46:19 PM »
Thanks Rod. And yes, do please keep us posted. I will take a closer look as well. If that is case and that is top 12 out of 2000, thats a good stat. But still, even I feel that 12 is a miracle. But, that could also because I have been so jaded over the years of failed traders, signals, EAs etc... Like I said, i would LOVE to be wrong. It is hard to find even one profitable strategy with low drawdown that has more than 2 years. I am intrigued enough to take a good look at some of the systems there. Psyquation is another site i am looking at to. With similar features.

 

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