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Author Topic: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker  (Read 57429 times)

Offline FXOpen_Andrew

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2012, 04:17:01 AM »
thanks andrew. can you let me konw what bridge provider you use for your mt4?

We use the proprietary bridge from FXOpen which is unique in allowing you to become a full market participant rather than just taking the prices from a feed.

Offline nc!

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2012, 03:33:39 PM »
Is there any chance to get back your money if ASIC regulated broker will disappear? For example if concerns FSA regulated broker you can get back up to 85,000
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumerinformation/compensation/fscs/limits

for FINMA broker you can get back up to CHF 100,000 per depositor.
http://www.einlagensicherung.ch/en

And what about ASIC regulated broker?

ASIC makes it mandatory for all AFSL licence holders to hold Professional Indemnity insurance under Australian law.  There is also a requirement, by law for companies to have a trust for segregated client funds in the event a company with an AFSL goes bankrupt.  This means that client funds are safe from being touched by a company for purposes other than for client usage.  FXOpen AU is currently insured for $5 million to meet this requirement.  Please see our PDS for the client fund policy of FXOpen AU.  http://www.fxopenaus.com/Download.aspx?name=FXOpen_Product_Disclosure_Statement.pdf



Sorry for going a little offtopic but answer to websmith's and my question about regulator's guarantee can be found here: http://www.fxrebategurus.com/blog/43-fxregulators/79-which-regulators-bet-protect-us-in-case-of-a-broker-bankruptcy.html .

I question a page that lists conditions for FXOpen AU that are incorrect.  The conditions provided those for FXOpen NZ which are different from FXOpen AU.  The best place to find information about a regulator is through official documents or media releases directly from the regulator.

From the link http://www.fxopenaus.com/Download.aspx?name=FXOpen_Product_Disclosure_Statement.pdf  I have copied the following parts

Page 3
The consumer protection rights available to persons in Australia may not be applicable or
available to you; >:(


Page 10
FXOpen considers all money deposited with with us to be
client monies which is afforded certain protection under the
law including the requirement to hold it segregated from our
own funds, in a specially designated account.
However you should be aware that your funds are held
together with the funds of our other clients and that FXOpen
is permitted to use client monies to meet the margin
obligations of other FXOpen clients and its own positions and
for other purposes related to dealing in derivative :P


No word on compensation in case of insolvency.  Liquidators and lawyers get most of the monies, if they are any left and after a long time in case of insolvency. Can you just say there is no safety net for the investors, like FSA? What is the point pretending you offer FSA like protection. Segregated accounts on the broker is a myth according to your own manual, you use the funds to cover positions of your investors, my money.

Insurance 5 million is nothing and it does not protect my account. What happens if your outstanding are more than your cover? Basically no protection to investors funds upon insolvency. If I am wrong provide the relevant government documents that state otherwise.

NC!
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Offline Jackmarkets

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2012, 09:19:28 PM »
Pretty much what nc! said.  Doesn't seem to be any protection for clients here like FSA regulated or FINMA brokers.

Offline Dash

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2012, 08:59:45 AM »
the dodgy thing about fxopen is their demo feed is usually 1-10pips off the real market price. which causes eas to profit on demo and not on live. very disappointing. i can make a million dollars on demo feed within 1-2 days. i wouldnt recommend this broker for large deposits. 1k or less, no problems.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 11:50:24 PM by Dash »

Offline geektrader

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2012, 07:04:56 PM »
I second that about the demo, it is totally off from the live-feed most of the time and actually they hit your TP there if you run an EA which would have never happened on the live account. A good example is a guy I saw that was running Pipjet on Demo + Live @ FXOpen, on the demo almost each TP got hit while on live this doesnt happen. Seems like they are faking the prices on demo to fill your TP to make you believe the EA works super-great with FXOpen! VERY fishy!

Another thing that happens often with them is "lost" trades, e.g. trades pass past their SL and never get closed and float around until you close them manually. That is very bad in general but especially bad if you do tick-scalping with FXOpen where a good fill of the SL is important since you trade with bigger lot-sizes. Just imagine a 1 lot order surpassing its SL and never getting closed, horrible. The bridge they use does that pretty often as I hear from tick-scalpers there, seems technically very bad.

Offline zuk156

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2012, 08:07:01 PM »
FxOpen ECN functions different than let's say Pepperstone STP. Sometimes actual price reaches exactly TP/SL level but it does not execute (liquidity, delay, ... ). But on other hand I also had positive experience that price reached my TP but executed at better price. What is even more interesting, that better price was never shown/available in mt4 platform at that time and also not in previous or next price bar.


Offline FXOpen_Andrew

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2012, 02:16:06 AM »
No word on compensation in case of insolvency.  Liquidators and lawyers get most of the monies, if they are any left and after a long time in case of insolvency. Can you just say there is no safety net for the investors, like FSA? What is the point pretending you offer FSA like protection. Segregated accounts on the broker is a myth according to your own manual, you use the funds to cover positions of your investors, my money.

Insurance 5 million is nothing and it does not protect my account. What happens if your outstanding are more than your cover? Basically no protection to investors funds upon insolvency. If I am wrong provide the relevant government documents that state otherwise.

NC!

To be fair, ASIC has a lot of controls on how client monies are handled and the corporations act goes into great detail. Client monies cannot be misused in the first place and ASIC makes regular checks on companies to ensure their client money policies are up to muster.

According to ASIC RG212 http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/pdflib.nsf/LookupByFileName/rg212-9July2010.pdf/$file/rg212-9July2010.pdf, a summary of the rules if a company ceases to operate is given

How client money is dealt with if licensee ceases to be licensed
RG 212.76 The Corporations Act provides for how client money is to be dealt with if a
licensee:
(a) ceases to be licensed (including a cessation because the licensees AFS
licence has been suspended or cancelled);
(b) becomes insolvent under an administration, has an administrator or
receiver appointed or is subject to similar proceedings; or
(c) ceases to carry on an activity authorised by the AFS licence and is paid
money in relation to that activity.
Note: See s981F and reg 7.8.03.

RG 212.77 If any of the above events occurs, client money is to be paid as follows:
(a) the first payment is of money that has been paid into the account in
error;
(b) if money has been received on behalf of insured persons in accordance
with a contract of insurance, the second payment is payment to each
insured person entitled to receive money from the client money account
in respect of claims that have been made and then in respect of other
matters;
(c) the next payment is payment to each person who is entitled to be paid
money from the client money account;
(d) if the money in the client money account is not sufficient to be paid in
accordance with paragraph (a), (b) or (c), the money must be paid in
proportion to the amount of each persons entitlement; and
(e) if there is money remaining in the account after payments made in
accordance with the above, the remaining money is taken to be money
payable to the licensee.

In the case of a,b and c, you get your money before any lawyers or liquidators.

the dodgy thing about fxopen is their demo feed is usually 1-10pips off the real market price. which causes eas to profit on demo and not on live. very disappointing. i can make a million dollars on demo feed within 1-2 days. i wouldnt recommend this broker for large deposits. 1k or less, no problems.

Can you send me your demo and live account numbers with order numbers pointing for any orders in your live account which you feel are unfair?

Demo and live prices are quite similar, however it is impossible to make them 100% the same since demo liquidity is simulated.

FxOpen ECN functions different than let's say Pepperstone STP. Sometimes actual price reaches exactly TP/SL level but it does not execute (liquidity, delay, ... ). But on other hand I also had positive experience that price reached my TP but executed at better price. What is even more interesting, that better price was never shown/available in mt4 platform at that time and also not in previous or next price bar.

Can I have your account number and the order numbers involved where your orders didn't execute? I would feel that I have not performed my duty of service to you if I cannot provide an explanation.

Offline zuk156

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2012, 11:35:14 AM »

FxOpen ECN functions different than let's say Pepperstone STP. Sometimes actual price reaches exactly TP/SL level but it does not execute (liquidity, delay, ... ). But on other hand I also had positive experience that price reached my TP but executed at better price. What is even more interesting, that better price was never shown/available in mt4 platform at that time and also not in previous or next price bar.

Can I have your account number and the order numbers involved where your orders didn't execute? I would feel that I have not performed my duty of service to you if I cannot provide an explanation.

I do not have exact date, but I am sure I watched terminal and current price (I do not remember if ask or bid but I know I checked that I am looking correct one) reached TP and in position background of TP value changed to some color (maybe brown) for few seconds but TP did not execute. Similar if liquidity for that price would dry out before my position could be executed. Next time I will pay more attention and send you logs and exact time.

Andrew could you comment my second observation, how TP could execute on better price that is streamed into terminal.

Offline jubal

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2012, 01:46:33 PM »
Quote
In the case of a,b and c, you get your money before any lawyers or liquidators.

Fair enough, but you didnt mention paragraph (d):

(d) if the money in the client money account is not sufficient to be paid in
accordance with paragraph (a), (b) or (c), the money must be paid in
proportion to the amount of each persons entitlement;


So basically if half the money thats supposed to be there isnt, then you would only get the same proportion back, ie 50%.  My question would be if the rules are so tight and its unlikely that client funds would be used, why is this rule needed?
If you can keep your head when all around you are losing theirs.... then you have probably underestimated the seriousness of the situation

Offline FXOpen_Andrew

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2012, 04:40:13 AM »
I do not have exact date, but I am sure I watched terminal and current price (I do not remember if ask or bid but I know I checked that I am looking correct one) reached TP and in position background of TP value changed to some color (maybe brown) for few seconds but TP did not execute. Similar if liquidity for that price would dry out before my position could be executed. Next time I will pay more attention and send you logs and exact time.

Andrew could you comment my second observation, how TP could execute on better price that is streamed into terminal.

As you know, there is slippage in the ECN market usually related to liquidity. Slippage can be both for and against you. Of course we are all happier when we get filled at a better price :)

Quote
In the case of a,b and c, you get your money before any lawyers or liquidators.

Fair enough, but you didnt mention paragraph (d):

(d) if the money in the client money account is not sufficient to be paid in
accordance with paragraph (a), (b) or (c), the money must be paid in
proportion to the amount of each persons entitlement;


So basically if half the money thats supposed to be there isnt, then you would only get the same proportion back, ie 50%.  My question would be if the rules are so tight and its unlikely that client funds would be used, why is this rule needed?

The rule is there because lawyers are paid to cover all eventualities. If a company was so negligent and criminal that they lost their client funds on their own investments or other reasons, part D would cover such a situation.

Offline nc!

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2012, 07:11:49 PM »


As you know, there is slippage in the ECN market usually related to liquidity. Slippage can be both for and against you. Of course we are all happier when we get filled at a better price :)

Quote
In the case of a,b and c, you get your money before any lawyers or liquidators.

Fair enough, but you didnt mention paragraph (d):

(d) if the money in the client money account is not sufficient to be paid in
accordance with paragraph (a), (b) or (c), the money must be paid in
proportion to the amount of each persons entitlement;


So basically if half the money thats supposed to be there isnt, then you would only get the same proportion back, ie 50%.  My question would be if the rules are so tight and its unlikely that client funds would be used, why is this rule needed?

The rule is there because lawyers are paid to cover all eventualities. If a company was so negligent and criminal that they lost their client funds on their own investments or other reasons, part D would cover such a situation.

Proportion is not full amount.

If Ausi regulators where confident that the checks the have in place are solid they could offer max compensation like FSA. Sure that would have attracted more capital.
Maybe the optimization is for 1K-5K accounts only. Which 95% will loose and broker is the winner in the long run. Big smile of broker here. :-*

Does anyone know of any case with Ausi regulated that has paid back proportion of the account. Time it took to resolve?

NC!


No eas in real accounts

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Offline FXOpen_Andrew

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2012, 06:14:52 AM »
Proportion is not full amount.

Worst case scenario :)

If Ausi regulators where confident that the checks the have in place are solid they could offer max compensation like FSA. Sure that would have attracted more capital.
Maybe the optimization is for 1K-5K accounts only. Which 95% will loose and broker is the winner in the long run. Big smile of broker here. :-*

FXOpen is a purely ECN broker. We do not run a B book so losers are not wins for the broker.

Does anyone know of any case with Ausi regulated that has paid back proportion of the account. Time it took to resolve?

I was waiting a few days before responding to see if anyone knew of any cases like that. I am unaware of any in Australia. We have not had any MF Globals here. Actually, ASIC tightened up regulation even more in the wake of MF Global to make it even less likely for it to happen here.

Offline mixsta

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2012, 07:28:06 AM »
Does anyone know of any case with Ausi regulated that has paid back proportion of the account. Time it took to resolve?

I was waiting a few days before responding to see if anyone knew of any cases like that. I am unaware of any in Australia. We have not had any MF Globals here. Actually, ASIC tightened up regulation even more in the wake of MF Global to make it even less likely for it to happen here.

Search for "Storm Financial" and check out http://storm.asic.gov.au/. Not a retail FX broker, but the same regulator and similar area (financial investments). Went bust in early 2009 and legal proceedings are still continuing today. Even some of Australia's biggest banks have been embroiled, which is actually fortunate for the creditors because they are potential sources of recovery (Commonwealth Bank is the 4th largest Western bank in the world by market capitalisation).

Offline nc!

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2012, 11:04:33 PM »
Proportion is not full amount.

Worst case scenario :)

It happens http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/index.php?topic=6894.msg215695#new and when it happens it hits you 100% :(

DCM is insolvent.Segregated  accounts did not help here.

If Ausi regulators where confident that the checks the have in place are solid they could offer max compensation like FSA. Sure that would have attracted more capital.
Maybe the optimization is for 1K-5K accounts only. Which 95% will loose and broker is the winner in the long run. Big smile of broker here. :-*

FXOpen is a purely ECN broker. We do not run a B book so losers are not wins for the broker.

No b-books but funds are not safe to my standards only small amounts and if.
Does anyone know of any case with Ausi regulated that has paid back proportion of the account. Time it took to resolve?

I was waiting a few days before responding to see if anyone knew of any cases like that. I am unaware of any in Australia. We have not had any MF Globals here. Actually, ASIC tightened up regulation even more in the wake of MF Global to make it even less likely for it to happen here.

It happens and it is going to happen, are your funds protected? I choose FSA regulated  broker or a swiss FX broker.

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Offline mixsta

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Re: FXOpen AU Pty Ltd - fxopenaus.com - ASIC Regulated Broker
« Reply #59 on: October 07, 2012, 12:16:24 AM »
It happens http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/index.php?topic=6894.msg215695#new and when it happens it hits you 100% :(

DCM is insolvent.Segregated  accounts did not help here.

I didn't mention DCM, because it moved to New Zealand shortly before it went into liquidation, so it was no longer regulated by ASIC when it went bust. They were still supposed to have segregated accounts - but now the funds have gone missing. I'm now looking for an FSA regulated broker.

 

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