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Author Topic: Experience with PAMM accounts?  (Read 31860 times)

Offline MatthiasHuber

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Experience with PAMM accounts?
« on: July 01, 2016, 01:53:25 PM »
What are peoples experience with PAMMs?

I invested in one a while ago that blew up. Just wondering if anyone has had really good experience with any specifics?

Offline drunkfx

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 05:04:00 PM »
Invest in PAMM's with rescue levels like this https://v2pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1041607 , where a manager takes responsibility for losses, so trading more carefully and diligently.

Offline tcc97

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2016, 01:25:06 PM »
@matthiashubber
(disclosure: i am a pamm manager at hotforex)

there are a few things you can watch for when investing in a pamm:

if you are allowed to filter the ranking table like the hotforex v2 pamm, you can use it to your advantage.

1. choose duration more than 1 year or min 6 mths.
2. then returns more than zero. ie must be profitable.
3. draw down less than 25 or 20 or anything you are comfortable. if you choose dd with say 5%, then you will have very few choices left, just go for slightly higher number. will explain how to filter manually once you filter the pamm table.
4. after criteria 1-3 normally you won't be left with many choices because very very few pamm will survive past a year. if you want to be more confident choose a longer duration say two years.

after you are left with say 15 - 20 pamms, you can then go through each one (sounds like some work but trust me it is worthwhile as this is your hard earned funds n u need to protect it) and check for floating p/l (profit or loss)... usually they are losses, so the thing you need to check is how big the losses are?

this is critical... few ppl know how to look into this and compare with the dd number captured in the draw down column!

if the floating p/l is say -100 and the equity (not balance) is 300 then u know that the real dd is 33%. compare this to the max dd number captured in the website usually at the top or left column of the page.

just by using the filter mentioned earlier n also manual comparison i assure you that you are likely (no guarantees in fx world) to not lose your whole capital. if you have slightly more knowledge on fx trading you can then drill down to the returns n dd level you are comfortable with. if not, it is still better than blindly invest in pamm based on the returns alone as most retail traders just look at. they go for highest roi!

one of the reasons i emphasise duration of the pamm is because the manager is likely to be very careful with your funds given he or she survives so long and after building a long track record there is even a better reason to preserve the account and trade with lots of discipline.

you may asked how i know about all these? i have traded fx for a long time on a full time basis and i am also managing a pamm in hotforex in fact one of the longest one in the pamm table. not here to advertised but should you be interested take a look at the link below. we can discuss further should it capture your interest.

http://www.donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=12110.0

using what i just said above n with the condition below at hotforex pamm v2:

days opened > 360
gain > 1 (u can change this number)
abs gain > 1 again
max dd < 25% (u can adjust this to your liking, i use the default value)

only ten pamms came out. now i can still down to each one to see they are with investing. at least they stand the test of time. if course for those who want very high returns in a short period this way of filtering is not suitable. it is for ppl who want long term n consistent gain with piece of mind without having to worry a blown account when they wake up in the morning!  :)

hope this help!

take care n safe trading!

regards, chucky.



p/s: please also check the last trade to make sure this pamm is still being actively traded n managed not just a "zombie pamm" with good record from a long time ago but not traded actively anymore.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 01:26:28 PM by tcc97 »
equity dd in yellow (real risk) is lower than the posted dd! <br /><br /> http://www.donnaforex.com/forum/index.php?topic=12110.0<br/> <br />manual trading<br />

Offline lighter888

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 06:55:10 AM »
The problem about PAMM Account is their analytics is not true, HotForex's PAMM has one of the better one in term of dashboard and information which is quite transparent.

But the % ROI is inflated due to new incoming funds, the real gain is reflected on abs gain instead.

1 - Duration more than 6 months - true
2 - Obviously profitable strategy
3 - The drawdown on hotforex is never real, because it's not apple to apple, the draw-down can be as low as 0% or as high even 50 or 100% when you filtered it based on balanced draw-down and not floating dd, but its not true compared to other analytic platform like fxblue and myfxbook, the better ones are darwinex and fundseeder where true analytics is measured.

Pointing to number 3, i have been a user on hotforex since their beginning i watched how their PAMM system grow from V1 PAMM to even their own titan PAMM to the recent V2PAMM and until last year, their PAMM somehow died down as regulations from euro zone forced them out, leaving only a small pool of investors from outside of europe and US. Only a few good traders are still alive there now, most of their system flopped

- holding onto negative trades
- negative hedging , balance % ROI continue to grow, but DD AS WELL, negative FLOATS can be as high as 50-75%

Warning sign - If the manager's capital is below 50% or even some left with 20% or less, despite their account may have floating DD and their other investors account are making money WHY? Because new investors joined will open trades on LIVE MARKET PRICE. Meaning if the manager had held a long EURUSD at 1.15, and the live market is 1.05, the new investors joined buying EURUSD at 1.05 :) when they successfully joined their PAMM.

Allow me to list a few within top 20 ranking.

https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1118839 - Junaid Abdulla
$543.55 Manager's Capital $4577.47 Manager's Balance - Margin call soon?
EVen though the equities is fine. Gain: 3595.3% inflated ROI


https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1103558 - MHG Trader
$424.39 Manager's Capital $884.07 Manager's Balance
Gain: 1053.17% inflated ROI. Manager dd is at 50%


https://pamm.hotforex.com/hf/en/managerdetails.html?managerID=1016333 - Combustion
Gain:777.75% inflated ROI, ABS gain is now -5.2% Profit $-30155.62
Manager squared and lost money but still top 20 :D, how the fark this works? Flawed system


Sure, there are good ones. But you will never know what happened when the volume get bigs. The manager no longer trades the same, some took higher risk, some refused to let go their profits and tanked more.

The best filter is still by how long first, the other metrics isn't so accurate because it's not very true. Unless hotforex enabled 3rd party analytics into their platform, but if they do that, a lot of people will not invest anymore. My friend use hotforex and diversify his funds across multiple pamms, sure some doubled his capital but later on tanked, some margin call etc. I somehow prefers darwinex now, because the analytics is much more accurate and LIVE floating stats, its very hard to get good scores there.



@matthiashubber
(disclosure: i am a pamm manager at hotforex)

there are a few things you can watch for when investing in a pamm:

if you are allowed to filter the ranking table like the hotforex v2 pamm, you can use it to your advantage.

1. choose duration more than 1 year or min 6 mths.
2. then returns more than zero. ie must be profitable.
3. draw down less than 25 or 20 or anything you are comfortable. if you choose dd with say 5%, then you will have very few choices left, just go for slightly higher number. will explain how to filter manually once you filter the pamm table.
4. after criteria 1-3 normally you won't be left with many choices because very very few pamm will survive past a year. if you want to be more confident choose a longer duration say two years.

after you are left with say 15 - 20 pamms, you can then go through each one (sounds like some work but trust me it is worthwhile as this is your hard earned funds n u need to protect it) and check for floating p/l (profit or loss)... usually they are losses, so the thing you need to check is how big the losses are?

this is critical... few ppl know how to look into this and compare with the dd number captured in the draw down column!

if the floating p/l is say -100 and the equity (not balance) is 300 then u know that the real dd is 33%. compare this to the max dd number captured in the website usually at the top or left column of the page.

just by using the filter mentioned earlier n also manual comparison i assure you that you are likely (no guarantees in fx world) to not lose your whole capital. if you have slightly more knowledge on fx trading you can then drill down to the returns n dd level you are comfortable with. if not, it is still better than blindly invest in pamm based on the returns alone as most retail traders just look at. they go for highest roi!

one of the reasons i emphasise duration of the pamm is because the manager is likely to be very careful with your funds given he or she survives so long and after building a long track record there is even a better reason to preserve the account and trade with lots of discipline.

you may asked how i know about all these? i have traded fx for a long time on a full time basis and i am also managing a pamm in hotforex in fact one of the longest one in the pamm table. not here to advertised but should you be interested take a look at the link below. we can discuss further should it capture your interest.

http://www.donnaforex.com/index.php?topic=12110.0

using what i just said above n with the condition below at hotforex pamm v2:

days opened > 360
gain > 1 (u can change this number)
abs gain > 1 again
max dd < 25% (u can adjust this to your liking, i use the default value)

only ten pamms came out. now i can still down to each one to see they are with investing. at least they stand the test of time. if course for those who want very high returns in a short period this way of filtering is not suitable. it is for ppl who want long term n consistent gain with piece of mind without having to worry a blown account when they wake up in the morning!  :)

hope this help!

take care n safe trading!

regards, chucky.



p/s: please also check the last trade to make sure this pamm is still being actively traded n managed not just a "zombie pamm" with good record from a long time ago but not traded actively anymore.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:07:14 AM by lighter888 »

Offline Paul.Trafford

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 10:44:04 AM »
Alright I have read a lot about PAMM accounts and I have a question I hope this is the right subject to post it. From my understanding, when you choose a Money Manager, the amount which you invest for example lets say is 1000$ and his pooled PAMM fund is 20 000$. So I invested 5% of the total capital. When the Money Manager makes 5 000$ additionally (after a month trading total capital becomes 25 000$), does this means that I am receiving 250$ (this is 5% of the 5000$ that were made in this month) or I am not understanding the PAMM structure correctly ?

Offline lonewolf

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 10:51:21 AM »
Alright I have read a lot about PAMM accounts and I have a question I hope this is the right subject to post it. From my understanding, when you choose a Money Manager, the amount which you invest for example lets say is 1000$ and his pooled PAMM fund is 20 000$. So I invested 5% of the total capital. When the Money Manager makes 5 000$ additionally (after a month trading total capital becomes 25 000$), does this means that I am receiving 250$ (this is 5% of the 5000$ that were made in this month) or I am not understanding the PAMM structure correctly ?

Correct. Minus the fee of using the manager, which varies  lots.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 10:53:06 AM by lonewolf »



Offline fxinvestor

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 03:08:12 AM »
Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(

Offline lonewolf

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 04:03:48 AM »
Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(

Check out ezefx, they've a signal running since 2015, slow but profitable. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/realgains/golden-triangle/1455546

I'm using their EA's with success. :)



Offline fxinvestor

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 04:20:28 AM »
Thank you!! :)

Thank you for this listing!
Very helpful.

I have been burned MANY TIMES by FX managed accounts and need to recover funds.
Even with good brokers and long track records they always crash :(

Check out ezefx, they've a signal running since 2015, slow but profitable. http://www.myfxbook.com/members/realgains/golden-triangle/1455546

I'm using their EA's with success. :)

Offline forexbaby

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 11:47:12 AM »
Usually pamm has a better pips gain beause the trade is directly to the account of clients.

When you taking a scalper, better to take a pamm than a signal.


Offline Valzent

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 08:55:38 PM »
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

Offline Valzent

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 02:31:09 PM »
Forgot to mention something extremely important
When choosing to invest in a PAMM Account, never let the Balance curve deceive you, always look for the Equity Curve, that whats going to tell you the real performance of the account
Some manager "make up" a pretty balance curve while hiding a terrible performance in the account Equity, which ultimately lead to no profits at all and account wipes

Offline forexbaby

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 05:19:12 PM »
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

lucky pound is a grid right?


Offline Valzent

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 05:50:09 PM »
My experience with Alpari PAMM Accounts has been great, some accounts are over 3 years old and have consistent returns with low DD
Check for example the 2 accounts linked in my signature, I am currently investing in both of them  :)

lucky pound is a grid right?

From what I can see in its myfxbook profile it indeed is a grid system
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/autotrade/lucky-pound/1045415

Something I really like about the system is that by looking at its history you can notice SLs are controlled and respected, which is a plus to me in any trading system

Offline forexbaby

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Re: Experience with PAMM accounts?
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 01:25:39 AM »
for me I do not do grid but i know that grid with a hard stop SL is possible.

however many traders cannot control emotion to hard SL when needed causing account to be gone  ::)


 

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