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Author Topic: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading  (Read 67307 times)

Offline Ruairi OPleurisy

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #345 on: April 02, 2020, 11:52:13 AM »
Arrrgh, this has been so frustrating for me.  I did a lot of research and found a few opportunities however two of them disappeared when swaps changed before I'd even had a chance to setup accounts. 

The third opportunity I found was one with two good brokers - ICM & Pepperstone on EURNZD and I decided to go live on Tue after getting accounts setup and funded.  Imagine my frustration today when I find that swaps have also changed on this opportunty and my forcast +7.33 points per month turn negative after Pepperstone dropped their swap rate on the sell side.  So after closing my trades after only two days I am down due to exection costs.

I liked the potential of this, but the issue is firstly finding an opportunity and then hoping that it does not evaporate almost immediately.

The software is undoubtably impressive, but its the fluctuating swaps that are the issue and chasing brokers to find them.  The other opportunites listed in the private vendor forum for simple accounts and the one in the user guide are no longer viable, so sadly I am concluding that this is not going to work for me, and I so wanted it to.

Anyone still operating profitably here?  The vendor forum is quiet now on opportunities.

The preconception that swap rates change infrequently is not what I have found, but that may be due to the current climate.

Online FLechdrop

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #346 on: April 02, 2020, 02:49:01 PM »
I am pretty sure this is due to the crisis we are in now and central banks dropping interest rates around the globe...

Offline Josef

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #347 on: April 02, 2020, 09:10:58 PM »
Anyone still operating profitably here? 

I agree that that the rates change at the moment more frequently but I disagree with everything else. Running a portfolio for two days only isn't fun but it is just a tiny obstacle. To conclude that it is not working "for you", after running one rig for two days is not a good idea. If you do that, you will find yourself very quickly in the system jumping club.

BTW, I run a NZD rig and one HKD rig. The HKD rig runs since November and the NZD rig since two months. Both setups come from the private forum. I think it is not fair to write that there are no viable portfolios.
We become what we consistently do.

Offline Forex21

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #348 on: April 03, 2020, 09:43:48 AM »
The other opportunites listed in the private vendor forum for simple accounts and the one in the user guide are no longer viable.
The 'my first portfolio example' from the user guide is a setup exercise for new users. There are many perfectly working portfolios posted in the
forum. 5 out fo the 7 posted simple portfolios work. The other two are labeled "At the moment not interesting."  Why you come here and claim otherwise, I don't know.

IC Markets | Pepperstone EURNZD portfolio
This one was doomed before you even started it. Here is why: There are no 7.33% one instrument portfolios and if you find one, there is a high
chance that there is something wrong with it. As example: Unstable rates. This can be avoided by monitoring the rates or asking others with more experience for advice. If you want to make 7% or more, you need to trade advanced and complex portfolios.

The vendor forum is quiet now on opportunities.
Incorrect the first time and incorrect now.

My best advice for traders who are new to swap trading is always the same. "Trade something simple and learn. Once you are good enough, the money will take care about itself." Traders should do field trips but if you do them to early, you will make mistakes and face some frustrating moments. This can and should be avoided.

I hope this helps.
Alexander :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 09:45:30 AM by Forex21 »

Offline Ruairi OPleurisy

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #349 on: April 03, 2020, 01:06:01 PM »
Ok, I feel I have to respond to this as it seems I am being spoken to like a child with the inference that I am stupid! :-)

Why would you post a setup exercise in the user guide for a losing portfolio - just admit that it worked for a while and now it does not.  I am not looking for an argument at all here :-)

>>This one was doomed before you even started it. Here is why: There are no 7.33% one instrument portfolios and if you find one, there is a high
chance that there is something wrong with it.


That's not quite what I said.  I said I found an opportunity giving +7.33 points per month (that's swap not % return) which with an 18k GBP deposit was still only going to return just over 1% - not great, but I thought I would at least make a start as it was with two good brokers - something hard to find with this system.  It worked for two days and then stopped so I closed for a loss.  At best it was going to make ~6 per day and likely need rebalancing even with 9k per account.  Maybe I was unlucky but I observed other swaps changing in the short time Iwas looking for opportunities. 

I also noted in the forum that the GBPNZD opportunitywas no longer valid and posted the new swaps and then you corrected me - that is because the swaps had chnaged yet again (though still no longer of use at that broker as negative) so it is a real moving target.

There are a small number of topics (nine) in the Simple Portfolios section on the site and six of those are dedicated to specific opportunities.  Most have no recent replies other than some I have added pointing out that the swaps have changed making them unviable - if you want to share some links to a working simple portfolio that's great, but they are not clearly visible to see now now due to swap changes.

Josef, when you say that you are running an 'NZD' rig which is it - what pair as noted above both GBPNZD (classed as an opportunity) and EURNZD (which I found myself) have issues.

So as a recap, this system has potential, is a really nice piece of software per se but in practice you could find it difficult to find a stable.  To use it properly you will need to do a lot of your own work and hope that swaps stay stable - something that is noted as being the norm, but my experience has shown that many swaps have changed frequently in the last 18 days.

Anyway, I applied for a refund having noted all the vendor repsonses on here saying these were being honoured and everyone complaining that they were not getting refunded was an idiot.  However, to my dismay I also recieved an email stating that I could not have one after 18 days as it is ony valid for 10 days.  I've replied to that as this was not clear and not published during purchase and hopefully you will fulfill the refund - something to also bear in mind if purchasing this yourself.



Offline Stephan09

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #350 on: April 03, 2020, 03:44:12 PM »
The refund policy described on their website https://forex21.com/terms-and-conditions/
It is like this for a long time, I remember from my Profx purchase several years ago.

Offline Ruairi OPleurisy

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #351 on: April 03, 2020, 04:22:54 PM »
Thanks for the T&Cs link - nowhere during purchase is this policy specified / stated, nor in the receipt.  Here is what it states during purchase :-

For a limited period of time Swap Master is available for a one time free of 299.00 USD. There are no recurring fees or any other hidden charges. Place your order now an you will receive instant access to the complete Swap Master Software package. The package includes:
   The Swap Master Expert Advisors (Master and Slave Unit)
   The Swap Master User Guide with many Best Practice Tips
   Access to our Portfolio Research
   Free Build Updates
   Personalized 24/7 Support
As we are confident that you will be 100% satisfied with the system, your order is backed up by our unconditional money guarantee. It means that if, from whatever reason, you are not happy with the Swap Master trading system, just let us know and we will refund you the full buy price within one business day.


I suppose if it is't honoured then we would need to revert to click2sell instead :-

2. MONEY RETURNS
2.1. Click2Sell manages all refunds and can return money to all Customers if they are not satisfied with the Product. Each Customer has a 90 days money-back guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the Product and want to get your money back, please contact us at support@click2sell.eu.


Hopefully it won't come to that.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 04:25:31 PM by Ruairi OPleurisy »

Offline Ruairi OPleurisy

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #352 on: April 03, 2020, 05:14:11 PM »
For info, I just added the correct swaps on the GBPNZD 'opportunity' on the Forex21 forum as the updated swap info posted just yesterday has changed again making in non-viable at the latest suggested broker.

The issues here are:
- frequently changing goal posts (swap, which is not remaining stable and is the cornerstone of the system).  Is this just a very bad time?
- need for reasonably high leverage (leading to:)
- poorly regulated brokers (looked at he one recommended for the GBPNZD 'opportunity' and it states no info at all on regulation in its online info)
- reasonable investment needed to see any reasonable return
- obscure intruments look like they may be tradable opportunities but leverage limitations make them not so - impossible to trade without very high investment - tried demo on EURTRY and EURMXN
- having to rebalance as price moves - big moves recently would have likely stopped out many trades meaning execution costs / rebalance / restart
- having to move money around brokers / educate yourself on opportunities

I love the concept, but maybe at this point in time swaps are just all over the place hence I don't have a product that I can use successfully...

Offline Josef

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #353 on: April 03, 2020, 10:51:18 PM »
Thanks for the T&Cs link - nowhere during purchase is this policy specified / stated, nor in the receipt.  Here is what it states during purchase :-

For a limited period of time Swap Master is available for a one time free of 299.00 USD. There are no recurring fees or any other hidden charges. Place your order now an you will receive instant access to the complete Swap Master Software package. The package includes:
   The Swap Master Expert Advisors (Master and Slave Unit)
   The Swap Master User Guide with many Best Practice Tips
   Access to our Portfolio Research
   Free Build Updates
   Personalized 24/7 Support
As we are confident that you will be 100% satisfied with the system, your order is backed up by our unconditional money guarantee. It means that if, from whatever reason, you are not happy with the Swap Master trading system, just let us know and we will refund you the full buy price within one business day.


I suppose if it is't honoured then we would need to revert to click2sell instead :-

2. MONEY RETURNS
2.1. Click2Sell manages all refunds and can return money to all Customers if they are not satisfied with the Product. Each Customer has a 90 days money-back guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the Product and want to get your money back, please contact us at support@click2sell.eu.


Hopefully it won't come to that.

I found links to their terms on every page and their is another one in the order box. Their ten day policy was even discussed here on the forum.
What you try to do here is dishonest, but you already know that.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 11:04:23 PM by Josef »
We become what we consistently do.

Offline Forex21

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #354 on: April 04, 2020, 12:07:49 AM »
ICM & Pepperstone on EURNZD and I decided to go live on Tue after getting accounts setup and funded.  Imagine my frustration today when I find that swaps have also changed on this opportunty and my forcast +7.33 points per month turn negative after Pepperstone dropped their swap rate on the sell side.  So after closing my trades after only two days I am down due to exection costs.

I had a little time and decided to check what happened to your portfolio. Generally speaking, the idea was good but as you are relative new to the game and did not ask for advice you made a classical beginners mistake. The Pepperstone rate for the instrument was always slightly below 0 and jumped up for just a few days. And right in this few days you started and ended your portfolio. And now the rate is again where it was before the jump.

Such mistakes can be avoided by tracking rates for a while before starting a portfolio. But you are in good company. I did the same two or three times before I learned the lesson.

That said, research and avoiding such mistakes will be easier when the swap db will be ready because you will be able to see how rates changed on a chart.

To help you out I can offer you to schedule a call for Monday. We can then sort out whatever questions you have and as I know a thing or two about swap trading I am sure I can help you to find some suitable starter portfolios. Contact details are here: https://forex21.com/contact-us/

Hope this helps!
Alexander

Ah yes, please don't copy content from our website without asking for permission and please remove the content you copied from this forum.

Offline Josef

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #355 on: April 04, 2020, 08:13:25 PM »
Ruairi OPleurisy

Pepperstone rates where always low and spiked only for a few days while the underlying interest rate did not change. Meaning, it was clear that the rate will probably not stay there. There was no reason for the suddenly elevated rate. Why would it stay there?

I am sure that if you would have asked Alexander or anybody with experience, they would have told you that hoping after every butterfly is not going to work. Common sense would have done the job as well.

I guess you thought that you are smarter than everybody else and did not share your setup nor ask somebody with experience. You acted ignorant, arrogant and to make the mess perfect you did not even come to the idea to analyze what happened afterwards to learn what you could have done better. Instead you lashed out, blamed everybody but not yourself and cry about that you lost some small fry execution costs.

Look at your issue list. You write that it is an issue that you need to educate yourself on opportunities. That is literally the worst mindset you can have as a trader.

And in case you did not notice, copying content without permission and posting it here is illegal and violates forum rules. As you run sterling accounts, I suppose you are from the UK. The forum admin is from the UK too and Alexander is from Germany. I will do the math for you. It means that your belief that laws do not apply for you can cost you in the UK up to 50K. http://libanswers.aru.ac.uk/copyright/faq/78776
We become what we consistently do.

Offline donbon2

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #356 on: April 05, 2020, 10:49:54 PM »
I really like Alexander and Forex21 - for me when I send an email with an issue it is always attended to quickly and they have made me money. (powerflow)

I do not know this product much other than reading the comments and looking at the sales page -- I just would prefer you look at other areas of forex than this one .. arbing swaps among brokers -- honestly you should not be broadcasting your doing this or any brokers your using at all -- otherwise one day they will find this and just take back any profits you have made.

the more posts made on this topic the more likely that is to happen.

If I can make a suggestion as to something to research - I would be looking at times of the day and find a 30 minute window where you can find a pattern and trade that - and avoid things like this.


Offline _Jonathan_

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #357 on: April 06, 2020, 08:24:52 AM »
If you try to fool brokers and trade islamic accounts against regular accounts it will end sooner or later bad for the user. But when you trade regular accounts against each other it is perfectly legal and there will be never any problem.

My humble opinion: NOT ALL but most donnaforex users are underfunded traders with very little experience and they don't want to get involved with complicated stuff like learn to trade or as Ruari put it, educate themselves on opportunities. They want Experts like Daxbot, Flex, Nightwalker, Fap Turbo version 111 and whatever new hot robot will be next week. They will buy pretty much anything what promises them to make money with no effort from there side.


Offline Forex21

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #358 on: April 11, 2020, 03:40:06 PM »
I got my first combination and did all the homework I can do. As I am a fresh man I have some questions.

I have chosen two brokers. One is ASIC licensed and looks like many like this broker and the other one, Go Markets is AFSL licensed. Is that alright?

There are several ASIC regulated broker combinations and I am not sure which one you mean. Simple post your question on the Swap Master forum or send me a short E-Mail.

I hope this helps.
Alexander

Offline Ruairi OPleurisy

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Re: Swap Master - Market Neutral Arbitrage Trading
« Reply #359 on: April 14, 2020, 05:15:15 PM »
Thanks for the T&Cs link - nowhere during purchase is this policy specified / stated, nor in the receipt.  Here is what it states during purchase :-

For a limited period of time Swap Master is available for a one time free of 299.00 USD. There are no recurring fees or any other hidden charges. Place your order now an you will receive instant access to the complete Swap Master Software package. The package includes:
   The Swap Master Expert Advisors (Master and Slave Unit)
   The Swap Master User Guide with many Best Practice Tips
   Access to our Portfolio Research
   Free Build Updates
   Personalized 24/7 Support
As we are confident that you will be 100% satisfied with the system, your order is backed up by our unconditional money guarantee. It means that if, from whatever reason, you are not happy with the Swap Master trading system, just let us know and we will refund you the full buy price within one business day.


I suppose if it is't honoured then we would need to revert to click2sell instead :-

2. MONEY RETURNS
2.1. Click2Sell manages all refunds and can return money to all Customers if they are not satisfied with the Product. Each Customer has a 90 days money-back guarantee. If you are not satisfied with the Product and want to get your money back, please contact us at support@click2sell.eu.


Hopefully it won't come to that.

There is link what says that terms and conditions apply under the order button and on every page in the footer.
Hi, for accuracy, the Terms and Conditions link that you see when you click the "Download your personal copy now" button at https://forex21.com/swapmaster/ is the Click 2 Sell one which takes you here showing the 90 day refund info: http://www.click2sell.eu/en/terms-of-use/terms-of-purchase.html.

You are quite correct that there is another Terms and Conditions link at the bottom of the page which is different but that is not mentioned during purchase, nor do you click to agree these.  Hence the confusion.

 

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