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Author Topic: KangarooEA - TulipFX  (Read 391899 times)

Offline compujock

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 09:31:47 PM »
Looking through the trading results in more detail this ea opens multiple positions (5 buys at 22.03 on 31st October with a total pips exposure of approx 3200 pips) with very wide stops which is a bit of a red flag for me. I prefer to have single position exposure at any one time and certainly not positions which could, if the worst happened, lead to an account wipe out. OK I hear you say this would be a very rare 'black swan' event; but as we all know these events do and will happen - usually after you have grown confident enough to up the stakes. ANY system using wide enough stops will show a great track record for a few months, possibly even a year or two, before the unexpected event catches up with it. In this particular case for that 3200 pip exposure the system clawed out 73 pips over 5 days - not the sort of R:R I would be looking for..

Version 4.1 seems to have fixed the giant draw down issue.  So, it's looking better.

Edit: Retracted negative comments after thoughtful and convincing explanation from vendor.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:17:21 AM by compujock »

Offline deweymcg

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2011, 03:40:41 AM »
On another site they explained what happened on those trades (which don't show up on backtests using tick by tick data with the new version):

"The previous version of KangarooEA got into a drawdown, it was too deep for our liking. We made some changes to the logic which dramatically reduced the drawdown. It did slightly reduce the overall profitability and reduced the trade frequency but importantly we could halve the SL.

With the new EA ready to test on the demo account, I added it to the chart, with the previous versions trades still open. Something went a bit wrong and it repeatedly opened new positions rather than managing the currently open positions.

That is why there are those short lived erroneous trades.

Because a new version requires testing and verification of results we had to delay the release of KangarooEA. We would be letting people down if an EA was not fully tested before release.

I hope that clears up the reasons for the strange trades, and also why those trades also do not appear on the backtest (because of the slight change in trade logic)."


Offline TulipFX

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2011, 09:03:50 AM »
i like this, but as I've told the developer, I'm not jumping in to something that hasn't traded in like 2 weeks.  i've asked twice that they might keep the intro pricing for a nother week or two so people can see it trade but keep getting a refusal so may need to pass on this one, its not exactly cheap with an upfront fee and then monthy fees which are in euros and their refund policy is almost impossible to get a refund.

Hi robl45,

We like to be upfront with things, I have personally purchased robots which didn't work and played swings and roundabouts with developers over their stated refund policy, we did not want TulipFX to be like that so have clearly stated what constitutes a refund - 40 days (including weekends in that count) of running within 60 days on recommended settings and the robot does not make you money.

As for the discount, it was for people who decided to purchase before trading on the KangarooEA kicked in fully. Today will be its first day back after being away on holidays, which is why the introductory price ends today.

I am not sure where the poster got the 3200 pips exposure from, but I will not buy into an argument about their figures. I think we have been the most open and transparent of almost all EA retailers; warts and all.

Since those trades mentioned we have dramatically improved the KangarooEA and the stoploss has been halved. The value for stoploss is 60 in KangarooEA 4.1.

As deweymcg mentioned we are adding a second pair the EURUSD. Initial results have been posted on our blog : http://tulipfx.com/2011/01/08/new-kangarooea-pair-to-be-released/ and we expect to update the KangarooEA Whitepaper later this week with full testing and statistics for this pair.

There is no need to rush into a decision. TulipFX is confident that over the months ahead the KangarooEA will show its worth as a reliable trading system, so you can observe as the weeks and months go by and see what you think. Our purpose is not to run a curve fitted risky robot overleveraged to get a 400% return in the first few weeks to drive sales. I am yet to come across such a 'Holy Grail' EA which is safe long term. KangarooEA is not a Holy Grail. You will not be able to retire on its amazing profits which Wall Street do not want you to know.

What KangarooEA is, is one of the portfolio of robots we personally use on our accounts. One which we have grown to trust and constantly keeps making nice returns each month as part of a balanced FX portfolio. We are serious traders offering a serious EA which is why we are happy for serious traders to bide their time and see the results before committing.

We have given Donna a copy of the robot, so she'll keep you all up to date with its performance over the coming months.



In the meantime, TulipFX wishes everyone a successful trading year in 2011.


Ozzie @ TuliFX.

Offline robl45

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 04:31:32 PM »
yea, the problem with the refund is that it specifies that it must be the only robot run on the account which is just not feasible for most people.  I suppose we could pop it up on a demo account and let it run.  i believe demo accounts were included in the refund policy.

i like this, but as I've told the developer, I'm not jumping in to something that hasn't traded in like 2 weeks.  i've asked twice that they might keep the intro pricing for a nother week or two so people can see it trade but keep getting a refusal so may need to pass on this one, its not exactly cheap with an upfront fee and then monthy fees which are in euros and their refund policy is almost impossible to get a refund.

Hi robl45,

We like to be upfront with things, I have personally purchased robots which didn't work and played swings and roundabouts with developers over their stated refund policy, we did not want TulipFX to be like that so have clearly stated what constitutes a refund - 40 days (including weekends in that count) of running within 60 days on recommended settings and the robot does not make you money.

As for the discount, it was for people who decided to purchase before trading on the KangarooEA kicked in fully. Today will be its first day back after being away on holidays, which is why the introductory price ends today.

I am not sure where the poster got the 3200 pips exposure from, but I will not buy into an argument about their figures. I think we have been the most open and transparent of almost all EA retailers; warts and all.

Since those trades mentioned we have dramatically improved the KangarooEA and the stoploss has been halved. The value for stoploss is 60 in KangarooEA 4.1.

As deweymcg mentioned we are adding a second pair the EURUSD. Initial results have been posted on our blog : http://tulipfx.com/2011/01/08/new-kangarooea-pair-to-be-released/ and we expect to update the KangarooEA Whitepaper later this week with full testing and statistics for this pair.

There is no need to rush into a decision. TulipFX is confident that over the months ahead the KangarooEA will show its worth as a reliable trading system, so you can observe as the weeks and months go by and see what you think. Our purpose is not to run a curve fitted risky robot overleveraged to get a 400% return in the first few weeks to drive sales. I am yet to come across such a 'Holy Grail' EA which is safe long term. KangarooEA is not a Holy Grail. You will not be able to retire on its amazing profits which Wall Street do not want you to know.

What KangarooEA is, is one of the portfolio of robots we personally use on our accounts. One which we have grown to trust and constantly keeps making nice returns each month as part of a balanced FX portfolio. We are serious traders offering a serious EA which is why we are happy for serious traders to bide their time and see the results before committing.

We have given Donna a copy of the robot, so she'll keep you all up to date with its performance over the coming months.



In the meantime, TulipFX wishes everyone a successful trading year in 2011.


Ozzie @ TuliFX.

Offline trader_john

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 04:43:51 PM »
I find the name from the robot funny.

Kangaroo EA ... Vendor take our money and jump away with it like a Kangaroo?

*lol*

Ok, back to serous. Anybody can share live stats?

Offline deweymcg

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 05:09:59 PM »

Ok, back to serous. Anybody can share live stats?

It has not been on the market long and it didn't trade from late December through last week.  Here is one person's live stats: http://www.myfxbook.com/members/birt/KangarooEA/67781

I just bought this one and will let everyone know how it performs as it starts taking trades again.

Offline trader_john

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 05:11:56 PM »
Thanks!

Offline canfx1

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 08:23:50 PM »
I am live on it and it made 21 pips for the first trade today.

Offline petersurrey

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 08:32:28 PM »
I am not sure where the poster got the 3200 pips exposure from, but I will not buy into an argument about their figures. I think we have been the most open and transparent of almost all EA retailers; warts and all.

Since those trades mentioned we have dramatically improved the KangarooEA and the stoploss has been halved. The value for stoploss is 60 in KangarooEA 4.1.


http://www.myfxbook.com/members/TulipFX/kangarooea/56195

page 2 - stops ranging on 5 positions closed on 31.10 from 500 to 700 pips...

Good to hear that 4.1 eliminates this exposure..

I note that you are using Alpari UK demo which is their PRO platform price feed and A/U spread averaging around 2 pips - might be worth adding this to your marketing to avoid disappointment for those with larger spreads..

Time will tell how this trades with forward testing but look promising in your back tests.






Offline TulipFX

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 08:38:04 PM »
I find the name from the robot funny.

Kangaroo EA ... Vendor take our money and jump away with it like a Kangaroo?

*lol*

Ok, back to serous. Anybody can share live stats?

The name comes from the EA trading the AUDUSD pair.

Here are some stats:











Over time I hope these accounts will speak for themselves. Especially once the new EURUSD pair is adding in the next couple of weeks.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 08:45:47 PM by TulipFX »

Offline deweymcg

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2011, 08:43:35 PM »
I am live on it and it made 21 pips for the first trade today.

You have me beat. Must have been some slippage because I had 20

Offline deweymcg

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2011, 01:28:24 AM »
Just had another winner--a nice start with this new EA  ;D

Offline petersurrey

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2011, 02:22:03 PM »
I note that this EA averages around 150 pips per month at default setting - with a total risk of losing 360 pips IF all open positions were ever stopped out - an unlikely but possible scenario. IF the EA were adjusted to open a maximum of just one position, how would this affect the overall performance - thus making the R:R more acceptable overall..?

Offline TulipFX

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2011, 03:27:37 AM »
I note that this EA averages around 150 pips per month at default setting - with a total risk of losing 360 pips IF all open positions were ever stopped out - an unlikely but possible scenario. IF the EA were adjusted to open a maximum of just one position, how would this affect the overall performance - thus making the R:R more acceptable overall..?

A good question Peter so I thought I would pop up and show the results.

This is the result using 1 trade per series on the default settings. Drawdown = 22%



This is the result using the default 6 trades per series on the default settings. Drawdown = 8%



Addendum - Request for 3 trades was made. Graph below. Drawdown = 16%


 

KangarooEA works on the old saying by Keynes - 'I would rather be vaguely right then precisely wrong'. The system opens its series of trades in the direction of the long term trend. These positions are not a straight grid, it will look for good opportunities to open its additional trades, at points KangarooEA thinks will retrace at.

That is why we use our News Avoidance system. We have tested it over the past 4 years to find which news events are going to fundamentally change the direction of the market. The settings are to avoid these news events because as another trader saying goes 'the trend is your friend until it bends' and nothing bends a trend like dramatic and important news.

That said, you always need to consider your risk based on maximum loss. The rule of thumb is KangarooEA's loss should a Stop Loss be hit would be approximately 4% x risk setting.

So although in the above chart with the 6 trades and drawdown of 8%, the real maximum risk is 20% should the worst happen (risk setting of 5 x 4%). Traders need to calculate the risk they wish to take and set it appropriately.

KangarooEA runs on our personal accounts with a risk setting of 2, and a maximum account risk of 8%. We however run quite a few EAs in our portfolio. A trader with a smaller account, less EAs in their portfolio or a higher risk tolerance may decide to run the KangarooEA at a higher risk setting.

Like Peter said, we hope that getting stopped out remains an unlikely scenario using default settings but that worst case scenario should be what you base your risk settings on.

We have been running the KangarooEA over two years and have run countless tests to come to these recommended settings.

I hope this helps people in their decision making regarding the appropriateness of the KangarooEA for your trading. TulipFX aims to be as open about its system as possible so those who do not like the series type of trading are aware of its operations and are not hoodwinked into purchasing a system which does not suit them.

Once we have released the EURUSD pair to go along with the current AUDUSD pair (both part of the one KangarooEA purchase) TulipFX hopes to begin working on modifying another EAs from our portfolio for release. So if the type of trading KangarooEA does is not suitable for you, you may find another of our portfolio of EAs more to your taste. Trading is a personal thing, not everyone likes trading the same way.


Best wishes to all the traders, green pips,

Ozzie @ TulipFX

« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 05:28:29 AM by TulipFX »

Offline petersurrey

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Re: KangarooEA - TulipFX
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2011, 10:40:16 AM »
Thanks Ozzie - very impressive..you've obviously put a lot of work into this..

Peter.

 

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